Entertainment For Lively Minds
X Factor. New depths?
Posted by Leedsboy on 6 September 2010 - 11:43am.
I don't watch X Factor because it makes me cross. I start berating the telly and shouting at people who can't hear me (and who wouldn't recognise rationale advice even if they could). At times, when I have watched it in the past, I even found myself agreeing with Simon Cowell.
So I watched the following youtube clip from the show with some detached trepidation. Some was not enough. This is just horrible in so many ways. It's stupid people being stupid in front of an audience of stupid people. On live, prime time television. Stupid is now officially considered entertainment. No one comes out of this clip positively.
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Agreed
If this is the clip I think it is (can't view vids in work) then I'm in 100% agreement. Things like this make me profoundly depressed.
I'd offer more detailed critique but I don't even know where to start.
That's Entertainment...
It makes me despair what kind of lives people live if they need this to enhance it... surely we're better than this - but I suppose it has the same effects as a car crash - you just can't turn away even though you know it's only going to get worse...
Stupid has always been considered entertainment
And what did you expect them to do with the footage, not show it? It was good television.
As was this...
Good television?
Step aside Mad Men. Move over David Simon. Here's two daft young lasses making fools of themselves in front of millions with the assistance of a panel of millionaires and a baying audience.
Here's why this is wrong.
When people enter X-Factor, they perform in front of a panel who weed out the average contestants, sending only the very good and very bad to see Cowell & co.
In an ideal world, the first panel on what is supposed to be a talent show, would just weed out everyone but the very good.
But no! They deliberately sent the young, naive and mentally ill out on stage in-front of millions, with confidence gained from 'passing' the first round, to provide the nation with someone to mock.
I fail to see a problem with it.
That's what TV talent shows do, and always have done. On The Gong Show in 1977 one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen came out and writhed around the stage with a box on her head. Jim Thirlwell even wrote a song about it, called Boxhead*. It wasn't the end of modern culture. I bet nobody declared themselves 'depressed' because of it. And David Simon still got round to writing The Wire all those years later.
(* I may have made up this fact. Mind reduced to mush by repeated exposure to X Factor)
The Gong Show
I'm afraid it was before my time Albert.
However, the example you mention conjures up images of people finding enjoyment in a bit of good old-fasuined English eccentricity (correct me if I'm wrong).
On X-Factor we saw a pair of talentlessm foolish youngsters (17 & 18 I believe) being ripped to shreds for the enjoyment of a baying crowd.
It all had a bit of a snide vibe about it. As Leedsboy said, nobody came out of it looking good.
To put in perspective how
long ago the Gong Show was, the judges all used to smoke throughout!
I didn't get snide from the clip you've showed, I must say. They were certainly taken down a peg or two, but rightly so, and perhaps those with a similar attitude will think twice before acting up in future. Did you watch the Cher clip I posted? It really is very good, you know. She's 16, this girl; she's nervous and awkward, but from about two minutes in, she absolutely *owns* the stage.
Can't view vids at work
Will have a look when I get home. From what you say, it seems to show the brighter side of X-Factor, ordinary people displaying extraordinary talents. That's what these sorts of shows should be about, in my opinion. If a pair of daft, talentless youngsters come along, the inital judges should tell them they're not good enough and send them home, but they don't. They deliberately put them on TV so they can be humiliated for our entertainment. It's not just snide, it's unethical.
They didn't look
especially humiliated to me, I must say.
Come on now
Whether they felt humiliated or not, they WERE humiliated. They're pretty much a national laughing stock.
So was the lady
with the box on her head in The Gong Show. Matter of fact, it was probably worse for her as she was only trying to provide honest entertainment, and she wasn't rude to the judges and she didn't throw any punches. This pair behaved like they were hanging out by a war memorial on a Saturday afternoon, and fully deserve any scorn that comes their way. You say they're humiliated, I'm not so sure, but good, I hope they are.
Each to their own
We're not going to agree here.
They're booked to play
the Scrumptious nightclub at Guildford this Sunday.
Pick you up at eight, yeah?
I'll drop everything!
I'll drop everything!
Let's just
see how it goes first.
they haven't
got the brains to be humiliated, thats the problem.
Isn't that part of the problem?
They didn't feel humiliated. And maybe they still don't.
Part of the problem?
Part of A problem maybe. Whether they felt humiliated or not (and who are we to decide) is irrelevant as far as my criticism of the show is concerned.
I've watched it again
and I withdraw the 'they' comment and would like to change it to 'the taller one' didn't feel humiliated. I think the shorter one walked and thumped her because she was being so rude and was embarrassed. So 50% of the act has a tiny bit more going for her than I originally thought. Only a tiny bit mind.
Here's the 'Gong Show' clip.
Couldn't agree with Lucifer more...
(now there's a statement) its the wanton cruelty of it that disturbs me.
My 11 year old of her own volition only starts to watch in the latter stages when it actually becomes a Talent Show.
The stark facts are...
...you'll find hordes of teenagers like these two (and often much worse) hanging out at every shopping mall in every city in the western world.
Why not put them on TV for all to see exactly what our society has become?
Serious question.
This girl
(Cher) is terrific, and this is a perfect example of why I still keep an eye on the show, despite promising myself every year I'm not going to watch it.
Into the abyss.....and beyond
I watched this open mouthed earlier......a slow motion car crash of humanity. The sooner someone gets in and cleans out the shallow end of the gene pool the better.
It infuriates me that pond life like this (and I apologise to any passing ameoba or plankton that may have just taken offence) gets to go on tv, gets exactly the same democratic rights as me and can't string two words together.
And for Gods sake can't they, like, stop using that word as it's so, like, annoying.
Freak shows
have always been popular. This merely confirms that none of us who give the X Factor and its ilk a wide berth are missing anything of worth.
I used to feel so depressed if I saw this type of programme...
but now I'm not that bothered. If people want to watch this shit, let them. I choose not to.
Children should be seen
and not heard.
I mean ah... I dunno...Ahm..you know... I dunno...Shurrup
What struck me
more than anything was the vast amount of chutzpah on parade.
The cojones the youth of today seem to have. Now, both of these young girls were very keyed up by the experience but that did not seem to stop them vehemently voicing opinion. Inarticulate and wrong-headed it may have been. Both foghorned their thoughts on the matters in progress.
In my day (cue sepia, high victorian collars, fob watches) I and my more forthright associates would have quailed, nay, shat our collective trolleys, at standing up and auditioning in such a way.
When did they all stop being shy?
Self-esteem
Nowadays, we're all taught the importance of self-esteem, rather than self-respect, and this is the result.
Shy v Not Shy Enough
I would be pleased by the ability of today's youth to voice opinion if the opinion was thought out and interesting. On the clip, the opinion seems to flow in much the same way that the contents of a stomach flows after some dodgy food - an involuntary mess.
I think holding ones council until you have a developed line of thought is one of life's great skills. Its not in evidence at all in the clip.
And people say
Vicky Pollard is a crude caricature...
Are these people real?
That looked awfully contrived to me, scripted even, the coverage just seemed too slick. Never watched the programme mind - so I wouldn't know if it's always like this.
It's always like this
Most of it's created in the editing suite - Cheryl's shocked hand over mouth, Simon's impatient tutting - to create just the right effect. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that, at best, profuse "I don't know what came over me" apologies were involved but we didn't get to see them, or, at worst, that the audience were responding to a big flashing BOO NOW! sign because the two girls were responding to clear instructions from the production team to be as bolshy and take-no-shit-from-nobody-not-even-Simon-ha-ha as possible.
The X-Factor is about as real as most reality TV: it's not in the slightest.
As for whether they were selected to be mocked, of course they were. X-Factor contestants fall into three camps: those whose looks/attitude lead us to think they'll be bad and indeed they are (e.g. these two), those we expect to be bad but, whaddyaknow, they're not (e.g. SuBo), and those you look as though they might have something but turn out to be talentless (e.g. Jedward). In short: well-groomed people who are competent performers need not apply - they're probably already quite content working the clubs anyway.
(Incidentally, I don't know who the woman between Louis and Cheryl is either. Is she, by any chance, another minor Minogue?)
Another Minor Minogue.
And it's three more from them...
Natalie Imbruglia?
It's
Natalie Imbruglia, I believe. Not quite a Minogue.
P.S. Capture word for this post - eno!
Not Quite A Minogue.
That must be the title of Imbruglia's autobiography.
And the Dim
shall inherit the world.
It was mentioned on the radio this morning
and described as "Jeremy Kyle set to music". Pretty much sums it up don't you think? It's constantly about humiliating the mentally ill or deluded. Personally I feel our culture should have moved on from this and these programmes should just show the good/talented.
The little I've seen of the Sky version ( sorry, can't remember the title ) doesn't seem to humiliate anyone and the judges give praise and advise.
Every year
it's the same old 'end of culture' argument yet against all odds we seem to survive somehow. Good music keeps on coming out and good television keeps on being made. And millions of people -- none of whom read this blog, apparently -- are reconciled to the fact that X Factor may contain some elements of artifice, it being a Saturday night television show and its makers probably not wanting to leave it all to chance. I guess it's okay for, say, Anvil, to want to hit certain narrative beats in order to tell its story, because it's just artistic licence then, but not X Factor, because it's evil and depressing when they do it. But it's really not, you know. It's just Saturday night telly, and no more evil than Beadle's About. And just because you don't like it, doesn't make it wrong.
Saturday night telly
If only it was kept to that.
Pot, kettle.
After all, it's you who's brought it up on here.
I meant in terms of TV
The repeats, the extra's, the coverage in other tv programmes etc. I thought round here was the kind of place we shared views on music, life, media and stuff without an assumption that the individual supports it's very existence.
Well, I was just joshing actually.
But I'm surprised you haven't taken the point. Seems fairly rum to complain about over-exposure having started a thread on the subject.
Sense of humour failure on my part
I see your point without agreeing with it (can I do that?).
As long as I can see your point
and raise you two eyebrows.
Yeah, yeah, whatever
but who d'ya think is gonna win? I'm going for the Parisian twins!
J'edward?
J'edward?
it's never happend before
but I actually felt some sympathy for Simon Cowell.
Two talentless dorks who think they are talented, who insult the audience and the judges. He handled them very well.
What's more depressing about their singing in the way they talk. Awful, awful, awful.
Bread and circuses
Sadly that really is all I can say.
Staged..staged..staged..
..just like the fat plain lady who (shock everybody!) could really sing.
Set-up car crash tele to keep the ratings up.
Like all these shows, the basic formula ain't enough to keep people watching, so as it goes on, they ratchet up the "outrage"
I prophesy disaster
*
Three Words: Noels House Party
I wish X Factor had been on when I was a kid instead of the aforementioned puerile 'vehicle' for the tidy bearded helicopter pilot.
We're playing right into their hands of course. I was suckered in by the Autotune "scandal" myself but that was probably just as much a stage managed publicity stunt as this. If they wanted attention its worked!
Clearly they already knew roughly what the girls were going to do, and those bits where the 4th wall breaks down and you see runners talking to Cowell with their headsets on pretending to concerned..pure theatre.
As for those lasses being indicative of some modern malaise...come on! There have always been mouthy, uncouth children like that. I went to school with girls far worse than that, 25 years ago..and I'm sure they existed before that.
I think however, that most young kids (who are the target audience lets be honest) are more intelligent and media savvy than you give them credit for. They can see this for the Pantomime/circus/Victorian freak show that it is.
Albert is quite right, and this is in a long tradition of slightly cruel, hysterical and bawdy Saturday night TV shows. It's Larry Grayson laughing at a pensioner on a potters wheel, it's Beadle dropping a wrecking ball on someone's new car, it's Noel Tidy-beard getting members of the public to risk possible death on live TV stunts...and look how that turned out.
The only reason people get so in a lather about it is the media machine surrounding it is so much bigger and the tabloids rely on it for sales so its all over the new stands ever morning.
It's only a gameshow!
Misplaced confidence
is a wonderful thing to behold and never fails to provide entertainment. The early rounds of shows like Pop Idol and X Factor are a haven for the weirdoes and mentally challenged.
When the shows move onto the later rounds after the unfortunates have been weeded out, that's when they are unwatchable.
I reckon there should be a lot more of this type of thing:
And the aftermath:
Hmm
I sympathise with what Albert is trying to say because X Factor is normally a guilty pleasure for me. But with this latest series it's more like the guilt you get when sinking your teeth into a factory farmed chicken burger (and I'm not getting much pleasure from it either). I get the argument that it's harmless Saturday night entertainment. But what makes me so uncomfortable with the live auditions format is knowing the extensive round of pre-auditions they have to do before they get up there, and that the producers make a deliberate choice to send up those in Archie's first category knowing that they will be laughed at not just by a roomful of people but by millions upon millions of people. I know something like this has been going on since before the gladiators (and I don't mean Wolf and co) but it is the sheer scale of it now - entirely aided and abbetted by X Factor's viral videos such as the one in the OP - that makes me so uncomfortable.
'But they know what they're letting themselves in for.' Did Shirleena Johnson?
X-Factor
Now so exploitative that Chinese animals regard us as a subspecies.
Good point
but I wager we wouldn't take mortal offence even if they did ;-)
Crikey I want to die
I agree completely with Lucifer Sam.
When watching something, and your instincts are telling you so loud and clear that something its completely wrong…it most probably is. If you feel degraded in some way after you've seen it, its not a good sign lets face it. Levels of exploitation like that are surely nearer to child porn than anything else.
Five years from now, when those two extremely young and naive girls have changed their hair colour and appearance to try and escape the humiliation they have undoubtedly received - will they regret their appearance on the X Factor? you bet they will regret it. When you see this kind of thing you wonder how far away the first X factor suicide is likely to be.
"You have the worst attitude of any contestants I have ever seen" even Hughie Green would be turning in his grave at that one. Is it my imagination or is that the word "Hypocrisy" written in neon at the back?
I have to admit
to doing a James Finlayson double-take when I saw you compare The X Factor to child sexual abuse. I wouldn't go saying that to any victims if I were you.
Eh?
I've read Marky's post three times and I can't see where he compares X Factor to child sexual abuse. Am I missing something?
Before I rise to this,
can you tell me what it is I'm rising to? Do you think he doesn't compare The X Factor to child sexual abuse, or do you think that child porn is not child sexual abuse? Because I'll just argue that he does and it is, and the reason I did my double take was because his analogy is at best over the top, and at worst disrespectful to victims of child sexual abuse.
Profuse apologies
Seems three times wasn't enough! I somehow managed to skip the end of the first paragraph, and didn't see the key words. It may have been partly because when I first read your post I thought there may have been something in the reference to Hughie Green.
Erm, explaining that makes me feel even more stupid. Thanks for not rising. I think I'll go and pracise my reading now.
Ah!
Phew!
Why…
Ok here's my argument. Its a terrible and shocking abuse of trust, to take vulnerable kids with the promise of a supposed 'glittering prize' - and then watch them openly humiliated. Whatever their other skills in life may be, and there may be many, its clear to anyone that they don't have the remotest chance in this particular contest of anything other than humiliation. They are too young to have made an open informed choice over what they are doing. In our late teens most of us are vulnerable, suggestible and attention seeking. And frankly there but for the grace of God go any of us.
Anyone who could conceivably enjoy watching this kind of thing needs to examine their own conscience. If I had my way the monstrous human beings that put this show together would be… prosecuted .
There ya go, can't put it any clearer than that.
All this talk of suicides
and child porn and monstrous human beings is all getting a bit tin-foil hat for me. I think I'll retire to examine my conscience on another thread.
not holding out much hope
Sure, let me know how you get on.
Ouch.
.
Vunerable?
They seemed more confident than most adults I know. They obviously wanted to take part in the show and their parents were clearly involved. No one was forcing them to do it.
Like most kids today, they appear to have been told that they can achieve anything and that everything they do is wonderful. This misplaced confidence led them to believe they could take part in a talent show.
Who are we to tell them otherwise? It's a little patronising to call them vulnerable.
Hmmm.
A toddler might feel extremely confident about wandering into the middle of the road whereas an adult would think twice. Sometimes confidence can be misplaced.
Surely
misplaced confidence is the lynchpin of the show? It's the only thing that makes it worth watching.
Does anyone seriously watch these kind of shows for their musical value?
Since when …
Since when were confidence and vulnerability opposites? I don't think there's an issue in describing these kids as vulnerable at all. In an environment where they have no experience, they are particularly vulnerable whether they realise it to themselves or not. And you also have to bear in mind what's undoubtedly gone on behind the scenes to fluff them up to make them able to 'perform' at all. Its pure exploitation. As for "no one is forcing them" - I refer you to my controversial but carefully considered analogy earlier.
And I refer you
to my earlier comments. It's grossly patronising and outrageously elitist of us to claim that we know what's best for these girls.
They are (AFAIK) of adult age and if they choose to take part in a TV show, that's entirely up to them.
And I refer you once again to …
I don't "claim to know what's best" for anyone, and at no point have I ever said such a thing. As for "elitist" - what's clearly elitist is watching it, and having a good laugh at others making a National spectacle of themselves. Since there is nothing remotely funny about watching a car crash, the only humour that you could derive would be from an assumption of superiority.
If they want to make idiots of themselves in the street thats fine. If they are being actively ENCOURAGED to do it on a TV show with an audience of more than 10 million viewers, generating enormous income, at a vulnerable stage in their lives, then there is a clear moral question surely.
So what's the answer?
Do you think certain people should not be allowed to take part in talent shows?
Who's to decide? Where do you set the marker? It's a tricky one.
I'll decide - hang em!
Other than people having the conscience and self awareness to stop watching what is nothing more than an 18th Century exploitative freak show, not sure there is an immediate solution. Commissioners and Producers are also to blame of course -and I think there should be a great Russian style purge, their BMW's and riverside apartments all donated to the less mentally ill.
More seriously, I think most people are aware on some level that these shows are, and here's a phrase… culturally degenerative. But its not actually because the music is rubbish at all- its because there's a lack of taste, and a kind of self harm demonstrated by a society that wants to show itself taking pleasure in humiliation.
Surely the marker is talent?
What's happening here is that people who have no talent are being encouraged to put themselves forward and allowed onto the televised section purely in the name of "entertainment". They have passed the pre-screening which they never would if talent was the factor.
But....
...whose definition of talent are we using? Prime-time TV's idea of talent would make the show even more homogenised and unwatchable than it already is. We'd probably end up with wall-to-wall Mariah Carey/Backstreet Boys soundalikes.
Allowing the deluded, over confident duffers to take part at least gives these programmes an air of danger.
The Good the Bad and the…
"deluded, over confident duffers"
…that made me laugh Mojo. Yes thats a fair point I suppose. Still doesn't justify the whole circus in my mind though.
"Kids"?
At least one of them is 18 years old. So if:
"They are too young to have made an open informed choice over what they are doing."
...then we really need to consider why 18 is deemed old enough to vote, eh?
Nothing new under the sun
See last year's series - ladies & gentleman...Sister Act
Followed by The Stunners
As I only have a finite number of years
on this great big onion,I try not to waste too many of them by watching utter shite.Viewing the clips posted above,the first time I've ever watched any footage of The X-Factor,I can see and hear my decision to not include this travesty masquerading as entertainment in my viewing time was for me a correct one.Each to their own,but I'd rather watch the Wire again.
This is nothing new, sadly.
Making a show of those we consider to be in some way less fortunate than ourselves in order to provide public spectacle and entertainment has long and not particularly noble history.
For example, in the 18th century the well-off used to pay to look at the patients in their local asylum.
I was watching David Dimbleby's..
brilliant "7 ages of Britain" last night which tracks Britains history through its artistic achievments.
Just watching it send a small shiver of pride down my spine at what my homeland has produced and set in motion an oft-recurring desire to settle back there.
Then I see this and resolve to stay where I fucking am.
(Not that we don't have crap like this here in Oz either, possibly not as cruel and manipulative as this though)
The confidence of these idiots and the relative humility of Cher can be summed up by W.B. Yeats..."The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passionate intensity"
Agreed
the Dimbleby show was great.
As for the freak shows, it's just a matter of degree. Here in Australia, we actually elect our freaks to parliament. Here's Queensland redneck MP Bob Katter (aka the twat in the hat) with his most recent campaign ad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Katter
I know that clip was horrible...
...but I'm afraid I laughed at Cowell's pay-off: "Can you pass on from me it is four nos".
I also didn't know that was Natalie Imbruglia and had to look it up.
Still won't watch it, but agree that Saturday night TV has always been cack. I don't remember any warm feelings about Summertime Special et al. And Hughie Green was far scarier and horrible than Cowell could ever be.
My opinion?
There are a lot of very bad things happening in the world. On a scale of 1 - 10 this doesn't even make 1.
The real version of this is more exploitative:
No one's holding a gun at their heads
They all enter into it knowing full well what could happen. They sign their disclaimer on arrival. They're all weeded out in a pre-audition process and the ones likely to surprise/shock/wow/disgust us go through. Once the cameras roll it's entirely out of their hands.
People will do anything to get on TV. Serves them right. They've got to be a bit bonkers to go on in the first place. They can't grumble about it and we shouldn't be 'depressed' about it either.
Take it for what it is: entertainment. If you don't find it entertaining read a book or something.
TV Awarenes
The thing I have difficulty with is how little some people understand how far and to how many their image will travel. Millions of people will eventually see you on any reality program and even for say "Come Dine With Me" it will effect your life. Act unpleasently on a program and you wont fall out with your just guests, it will be a good chunk of the population; nutters and all.
The ramifications of this are lost on most entrants until afterwards and then it is tears before bed time.
Of course
another question might be, why does it take this show to discover somebody with a voice this extraordinary?...
Jump to 2.47 to avoid the pre-amble.
Perfect choice of song, not sure about the advice that follows it.