Entertainment For Lively Minds
Word Podcast 173 - Desert Island Discs, Word 100, and how to love Bob Seger
Your three castaways adrift in the Word pod this week, each "rocking" a courageous new haircut - are Mark Ellen, Kate Mossman and Fraser Lewry. Time passes in a convivial blur as they discuss a night out at Desert Island Discs, the luxury items they'd choose, the construction of Kate's monumental hangover, unsung Cult Heroes, interviews that went wrong, Fraser's secret life in an improv band, Kate's maximum security Rest Home Of Rock, why everyone should love Bob Seger, and Qs from The Massive about 100 issues of Word.
The podcast is available to podcast app users now (if you've allowed push notifications, you'll have received a message already) and will be available through iTunes and other channels tomorrow.
You can follow this link to get the podcast every week. For more details on our podcast app, click here.
Just the ticket to accompany my washing-up...
...but the player's not here! And it's not on iTunes yet. Is it just my Mac?
Jude!
As it mentions above, the podcast is available to podcast app users now and will be available through iTunes and other channels tomorrow. Then the player will be available.
It's been a long day...
...I've been wrestling with Justin Timberlake all day and he's rather discombulated me, matron. Time to get an iPhone! Happy weekend, Fraser, and one and all x
And, I should say, I very much look forward to the 'cast tmrw.
xx
Just for a change
"the weather with you" is the same here in Weegieville, it's supposed to revert back to a Deacon Blue album title tomorrow. :(
Darn it
I forgot it was "wear something blue to work day" today. I hope tonight is "eat, drink and be merry night" because I don't want to appear uncool again.
I'm dead excited about the podcast. We know the guests on this one are not ever boring. Chortles galore methinks.
Bob Seger
That's spooky, I was listening to Live Bullet only this morning.
There was a time when a Friday night
just didn't feel right unless we started it with 'Hollywood Nights' at full throttle minutes before legging it down the road to the pub.
So true...
...so true!
Kate Mossman's laugh
makes an old man very happy
App purchasers vs the world
Surely it's not necessary to make non app users wait a day? I don't have nor want a bloody iTelephone! This is a ruse! Is not being a 3 year subscriber enough?
You're right, we don't *have to*
But it's little things like this that help us keep the whole thing going. Just as part of your subscription, you get the magazine before others who don't subscribe.
or not
it often arrives on the thursday it goes on sale in the shops anyway!
petty that non i phone users are penalised - this creates badwill not goodwill!!
Given that the podcasat...
...has never had an official release day, and that it's put out when we're able to, I'd be really hopeful that people won't begrudge those who've purchased the app a few hours head start, and understand why we do it - so we can keep producing the recording in the first place. Even then, the vast majority of podcast subscribers never visit the website, and will be unaware that they're being "penalised", as you put it - it'll arrive in their feed as it normally does: when we make it available.
As for late deliveries, send me your subscriber ID and and we'll happily take this up with DHL.
Just out of interest, do you get figures for the number
of podcast downloads from iTunes?
No
iTunes don't provide download stats for podcasts. We can get a rough idea from elsewhere, but it's by no means an exact science.
sorry
but we'll have to agree to differ. why should purchasers of the app be given preferential treatment over subscribers to the magazine?
Doesn't it work like this?
- If you pay to subscribe to the magazine, you get it a few days earlier than those who don't pay
- If you pay to subscribe to the podcast, you get it a day or so earlier than those who don't pay
Magazine and podcast are two separate things with, now, two separate subscription models.
If the podcast is as popular as it seems to be, I guess it makes sense for Dev Hell to gently monetise it.
Fascinating debate (er, to me at least)...
...to be had about this.
I think the magazine and podcast are even more 'separate' than stimpy makes out. For example, a subscriber to the magazine might get it earlier than the buyer in the shop, but (unlike the podcast) they both still have to pay if they want the product.
Surely what people are REALLY paying for in both cases is convenience: if you subscribe to the magazine, it comes to you - you don't have to leave the house. Equally, if you buy the podcast app for your iPhone, you can download and listen to them very easily - less hassle than mucking around with your PC.
The podcast being free-of-charge was, I seem to remember, part of the ethos nearer the beginning. Someone on it made the v.robust comment (probably DH) to the tune of - while it's free, you can't complain about it - this is what you get. It will be interesting to see if that changes now there is some 'monetisation' involved. (Especially since if I want to take advantage I have to get my iPhone first, on top of my £3.99!)
Personally, I don't particularly mind when I get the podcast - its very existence is one of life's bonuses. But having now split the audience in two - people with iPhones and people without - I can see why delaying it an extra day for the latter group could seem petty, even if that was never the intention.
I hope people don't get whipped up into annoyance by this sort of discussion on the site. I don't think anyone is criticising the podcast, or the Word's right to make money from it. (If someone told us that to receive the podcast in any form from now on would be a one-off charge of £3.99, we'd all pay it like a shot, I reckon, even those of us still using paper cups connected by string.)
But it's no longer a case of 'complaining' about something that's free - it's speculating about what might change about a product now that, in one form, it's no longer free.
surely
not only paying for the convenience of having it delivered to home - limited appeal as visit a newsagent daily anyway - and theoretically getting it a couple of days early, but the main benefit of course is the vastly reduced price.
Sure, point taken
In my second paragraph, I was trying to see a way where 'subscribing' to both the magazine and the app could be seen as similar.
Overall though, I think there is still a big psychological difference between the scenario where you still pay something however you choose to consume the product (the magazine), and the one where you don't (the podcast).
totally
agree with your analysis.
as a side issue, are plans afoot, one wonders, to at some point include 'exclusive' content in the paid for podcast.
obviously though, no-one objects to the mag trying to increase its income in difficult economic times.
I'd rather pay for the podcast than
have it sponsored or with adverts...
You really don't like 'I' do you
Because...
...they're not the same thing? They're two different products, with different sets of subscribers. But mainly, I guess they receive "preferential treatment" because they've paid for it. Just as you have as a magazine subscriber.
Some people
will complain about anything.
Even when it's free.
Volcano Suns
Great to hear Fraser mention them. I loved the Homestead label, must spin "The Wailing Ultimate" compilation tonight.
The Wailing Ultimate
That was probably the album most responsible informing the tastes I had as a youngster. Fantastic record. Nice to know I'm not alone.
Phantom Engineer
A Bob Dylan reference, Fraser. You know this, right?
Yes
The guy whose band it was remains one of the UK's leading Dylanites, to the point where he actually looks like him.
Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
chose 8 of her own recordings as her DID's - take that Brian May!
I bought the Phantom Engineer album...
...and still own it. Hear my story below:
You're right, I won't thank you
But no offence taken. I wonder who the other person who bought it is?
*coughs*
Guilty.
are you the guys
who back up Elton John's purchases in case his house burns down ;-)
Nope.
I was working for the Company at the time. General Noriega was being cussed. We soon flushed him out.
As a definition of an avant garde album
Mr 7's is as good as any "It has seven tracks, not twelve... and one of the track names has a number in it." Very amusing and perceptive.
Phantom Engineer
Looks like an esoteric supergroup to me.
David Keenan, author of "England's Hidden Reverse", various Acid Mothers Temple folks, M*jo's Keith Cameron and the mighty Fraser Lewry!
Phantom Engineer
It's on Spotify:
http://open.spotify.com/album/4TM9vnHAWq8voQ0Enzkd0y
In defence of Jon Hiseman
I think the separation of top and bottom halves of the body is called Independence. While he might have replicated this technique during his solo I'd bet it was different every night. In the same way that writing articles for the word involves the same skills everytime and yet each article is unique.
And while we're at it, I understand that cycle breathing was invented to play the didgeridoo. And while we're still at it, I underztand that improvisation was a feature of classical music centuries ago especially during concerti where soloists were known to show off a bit. And even in jazz terms some contend that Buddy Bolden was the first star improviser although others would argue for Jelly Roll Morton.
All dull perhaps, but where else could I share these observations?
It is, and in many ways, it's the holy grail for drummers.
You spend years trying to get all four limbs playing independently then, one day, it just happens. "Look mum, I can do it!".
I know that if I *think* about playing different time with more than two limbs, everything goes tits up and the whole thing falls apart. If, on the other hand, I just play it - it works :-)
far from dull
>> And while we're still at it, I underztand that improvisation was a >>feature of classical music centuries ago especially during concerti >>where soloists were known to show off a bit
If this cadenza
isn't originally improvisation I don't know what is. My fave version is Trevor Pinnock and the English Concert in mid 80s, a real rush-don't think it's on youtube.
Brian May wig is mystery (but maybe you can't have a wigout without a wig ?).
and while on the topic
of improvisation, this concert from a different genre takes some beating..
Koeln Concert
I was fortunate enough to witness this remarkable concert...it was absolutely transcendantal.
LJ
Really ?
Lucky indeed-I think I'm not the only one who'd be interested in your memories ?
Jarrett Koeln Concert
How long have you got, Spaceboy?
'twas while I was in the music biz, working for Charisma Records. I happened to be in Koeln for some reason and heard about the concert from Vera Brandes, the very youthful (only 17 or 18 yrs old!) promoter, who pulled off a major coup in getting Jarrett in the first place and then overcoming several serious setbacks (one regarding the grand piano he was to use) to stage the concert, which I'm pretty sure didn't start until nearly midnight.
As it was last minute I didn't get a seat, but stood just inside one of the many entry doors. It didn't matter though, because I was so entranced by Jarrett's performance that I didn't even notice.
My main memory is of his intensity...he moaned, groaned,swayed, stood up, sat down again...segueing effortlessly from passage to passage, seemingly oblivious to his surroundings and the enraptured audience. Time flew by and suddenly it was over and the audience, who were certainly aware that they had witnessed something really special, were applauding wildly.
Interestingly, the ECM double album (which I still have)has no liner notes or any information whatsoever about the concert, other than the barest details of what was played and for how long. The Wikipedia page, however, gives a very good description of the event and the background to it.
You were actually there at the Köln concert?
Respect.
....doffing cap...yessir, I certainly was.
...and many more 'special' musical occasions during my nigh on 20 years in aforementioned music biz, through the '6os and '70s...some of which, if pushed, I may well recount on the Word over the coming weeks/months. Trouble is...it's going to come over as an ego-tripping 'name-dropping' fest, which is not something I'm all that comfortable with. Of course, back then the artists I saw in performance and/or worked with weren't that famous...that came later (though not for all, I hasten to add!).
And before you ask...No, I never met the Beatles!!! Though I did interview Paul McCartney in 1980, when he was a solo artist...(see, I told you the names would thud to the floor!)
Superb!
Cap equally doffed... I saw Keith Jarrett play at one of his Carnegie Hall concerts on St. Patricks Day, sometime in the early nineties - not a patch on Koln but a swooning, unique experience to be sure.
The evening was made even better by being genuinely asked for directions shortly after leaving the show, and I couldn't help it:
"Excuse me sir, you couldn't tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall, could you?"
"Really?"
"Really."
"Well OK, then... Practice, practice, practice."
Ah yes..
...the old'uns are the best!
Thanks for that.
Stood through the same concert myself ---but only on a Virgin train with an iPod, the other day. Not quite so transcendental but better than being without it ...
Wikipedia page LJ mentions is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_K%C3%B6ln_Concert
I remember my own LP copy bought in mid 80s had noticeable surface noise-at the time this was blamed on it having a much longer production run than just about any other ECM album ...
ECM
...quality control is non-pareil, so maybe the surface noise was down to something else? If you bought it second-hand (and I'm stating the bleedin' obvious here, I know) it could have just been well played. Can't believe a new ECM album would escape the aforementioned QC.
3 million copies ...
though presumably not all LP ...I seem to remember it was one of the few that ECM also issued on tape ...
Don't worry, it didn't drown out his singing ;-)
It was new, but I have CD now. Though if I ever want a 180gm LP I see they exist:
http://www.ecmrecords.com/News/Special_Offers/LP-Liste.php?cat=&we_start...
Interesting....
I guess there's always the odd exception to the rule.
Wonder if they are the original pressings (at a juicy £27 +/-)
No I don't think so
the ones I saw recently were new ones I think, on 180gm vinyl, like the pressings of e.g. Kind of Blue, Art Pepper meets ..., etc that various other companies do.
Brandenburg 3
now I think about it, is the one where all that we have of the middle movement is a couple of chords for a cadenza:
Here
is the first of Carlos' versions-there was me, that is Alex etc etc ...
Funnily enough Jon Hiseman
just did the R3 jazz Library weekly show, here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011pks6/Jazz_Library_John_Hiseman/
or on podcast. Would please many a Massivite I think, tales from Graham Bond era to the present, good musical clips, lovely man, and his tribute to his wife's musical ability at the end brought a tear to my eye.
Not just a show for Kate M I reckon ...
BBC Jazz Library with Jon Hiseman
Thank you for spreading the good word, Spaceboy. Jon H deserves much wider recognition...and not just as a drummer!
Cheers
Nice one on EST last week as well:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011txxp/Jazz_Library_Esbjorn_Svens...
Improvisation
Surely the first improvised solo happened the first time you had two cavemen hitting rocks with sticks together, and one of them went: "You can't do this!" ?
Can't help being reminded of Miles Kington
---from his Times obit
Fourth wall
Me neither.
I think I came across
it in context of Garry Shandling's pre-Larry Sanders show, where he used to break it in a way that was unusual in US TV ...
---
Moonlighting
was another show to frequently break the fourth wall.
Mark n'Ginger
Do we know whether they ever met again in another context and, if yes, what transpired?
Where's David?
Much as I enjoyed the podcast, and you all seem like lovely lovely people, I felt there was a bit too much levity and agreement, a bit too much happiness, in short.... a lack of what we might call David Hepworth.
DH is the sour to Mark's sweet, the onion to his cheese, the Oscar to his Felix. Despite occasionally wanting to put my hand into the internet and administer a virtual wedgie when he goes into one of his grumpy old man routines, I found myself unaccountably missing his rants about how nobody knows anything, and about how it's been all downhill since 1971.
According to his tweets...
...he's in Eastern Europe. Apparently he felt that since the fall of Communism, those bastards have been too happy by half, so he's nipped off to tell them that everything's shit.
;-)
I shall let him know
That he can't have any time off from now on.
Quite right!
Slacker.
hepworth on virtual wedgie
would complement nicely the work of fraser lewry on tee off /clubs
Where can I get a crate of 'Iron Bull'?
Good podcast. By the way Kate, the best cure for a hangover is a bowl of hot, spicy noodle soup.
i recommend
a banana and a can of coke
sugar replenishment
I always found that...
a triple Jack Daniel's and Coke worked wonders.
The kill or cure version
is a large plateful of exceptionally hot last-night's-leftover curry. Hot enough to make you sweat (perspire, or even "glow" in Ms. Mossman's case).
As long as you can keep it down, the headache part of your hangover will evaporate quite rapidly.
Anyone else notice
how "our" editor waffled all around the houses when Fraser asked him to name the issues by cover star. Anyone would think he was stalling while he phoned a friend or looked it up on a handy checklist suitably hidden upon his person. Great insight from Kate about the interviewing of an awkward and precocious popstar. Presumably some of those interviews are recorded; now what if such snotty snippets were to mysteriously appear in a future podcast...
Ben Goldacre
Apart from Ginger Baker, Jude Rogers's interview with Ben Goldacre showed him up to be a pretty obnoxious git.
You'd expect Ginger to be an obnoxious git
given his reputation but the Ben Goldacre interview surprised me as that's not how I expected him to be. All credit to Jude Rogers for an excellent piece of work.
Yes, I'm sure m'learned
friends in the law profession would love it. Never mind the PR brigade who would blacklist the mag in an instant.
Circular breathing
He may not have invented it, but Harry Carney was the number one exponent of circular breathing. He played the baritone sax and to generate sufficient volume of air to keep his behemoth alive must have taken some doing.
A lesson from a master...
Kenny G klaxon!!!!
Jeebus, Mr C, give us some warning in the future. At least it didn't start automatically as thats a lifetime ban offence right there.
Dead Kenny-Gs
There is (or at least there was, I can't be bothered to look right now) a jazz group called The Dead Kenny-Gs. Very appropriate, I thought. The logo on their website had a face-down deceased Kenny with a soprano sax protruding from his fundamental area.
App vs Non App Podcast usage
With regard to Mr. Mojoworking's comments...
The modest £3.99 cost of the iphone app is not the issue here. It is simply not a good business model. Better to make a nominal 10p charge for the podcast. I doubt anyone who knows and appreciates the joy & splendour it brings to our dreary lives would pass on the offer. And Development Hell would be quids in! What does it matter anyway, I can wait an extra day for the Word Podcast, nobody need know my second class status!
Not quite
If we charged 10p per podcast, transaction fees would mean every sale resulting in a loss. Such a model would put us out of business.
Mr Kostolomac
The podcast is not a regularly timed event like the mag. It can be weekly, fortnightly, or monthly. Or any combination of the three. You simply never know when it will appear, so what possible difference does an extra day make?
The frequency of the podcast
The frequency of the podcast is irrelevant. In answer to your question, enough presumably to sway prospective app purchasers.
Enough!
But....
...presumably the app provides access to all kinds of other Word goodies - the archive for example, thus justifying the cost?
Or am I missing the point?
And if the frequency of the Podcast is not an issue, why post this?
It's absolutely the right business model
Ask Danny Baker. How long did his £2 for 3 "All Day Breakfast Show" podcasts last? Less than a couple of months. The instability of the podcast provider, the overlap with his day job, the inability to miss a show if the rest of your life got in the way all became big, and ultimately terminal issues once the free shows were "monetised".
If the Word were to move the podcast from a free marketing to an income stream, all sorts of issues arise. Setting aside what iTunes will want, the cost of collection, the need to pay guests etc, there's then all the indignation of dissapointed listeners. Just look at the venom that some of 50p iPhone apps generate.
I haven't looked but are there any paid for podcats out there that generate good feedback?
not convinced
Is there any advantage to be gained by getting access to the podcast a day early? I really enjoy it, it's absolutely required listening each week, but it often sits on my iPod for several days before I get time to listen to it. It doesn't date either, it has a timeless quality and is just as relevant 3 days after publication as it is hot off the press. I therefore, personally, don't derive any value from the time of its publication, despite being an iPhone user, I have no incentive to pay for the app as it delivers little value to me over what I can get for free.
I wonder therefore if you're monetising the wrong thing. Surely a better business model would be a half hour version for free, and the full version with special guest in the paid-for version?
I think what you're trying here is really interesting - and I wish you good luck in trying to monetise podcasts ... the other business model that appears to work, conversely is NPR's 'This American Life' which is free immediately, but then the archive is monetised ...
Podcast App.
Do you monitor every single post?
OK then £5.20 for a years worth, or £3.99, whatever you charge for the iphone app.
Oh and non subscribers to the magazine pay a premium (OK not to you) to get the magazine 'late'
The purchase of the iphone app delivers convenience and should not deliver preference! I'll buy an app now, but it'll do me no bloody good!
Desert Island Discs and grand pianos
Interesting that Roy Plomley banned an early guest choosing a grand piano as his 'luxury item'. Just last week Roger Waters WAS allowed one, even specifying the Bosendorfer. I guess Kirsty Y is a little less strict, though I don't think she was best pleased with Mr Waters occasionally adopting a 'codd' Scottish accent.
Grand Pianos on Desert Islands
A logistical question - who would tune it?
Easy.
You could just fashion a fishing rod from a palm tree and catch yourself a tuna.
And use it to go scuba diving?
Because 'tunas' help you breathe more easily!
John Cleese and Michael Palin
Cleese chose Michael Palin as a mark of affection not as derision. However he was not allowed a live Michael Palin, but was allowed to take him stuffed.
Would that then be a
Michael X Palin?
Taxidermy...
for Mr Palin!
This Palin is dead
deceased...
I was interested to hear Mark Ellen say
that there were never many good interviews with Bob Marley in the British music press. I seem to recall a terrific interview with Marley in the NME by Charles Shaar Murray, just after the release of Kaya.