Entertainment For Lively Minds
Who's the best second banana in TV comedy?
I've been watching some recordings of The Larry Sanders Show. Is there a better supporting actor in the whole of comedy than Rip Torn in the the role of Sanders' producer Artie (far left)? Artie always enters a room with a rolled-up piece of paper in his hand, issues a cheery greeting and then within seconds is trying to bring one of his self-involved charges into line with a combination of sarcasm and threats uttered through gritted teeth. As Rob F. would say, I literally love him. There ought to be an Artie management course. Here's ten minutes-worth of Artie zingers including my personal favourite. "I look on it as a perk. Kicking ass in the morning is better than capuccino."
Torn was up for the Emmy for best supporting three times and each time he lost out to David Hyde Pierce (as Niles in Frasier) or Michael Richards (as Kramer in Seinfeld). They're both quite good as well. I can't get over how these guys can put such energy and such a wealth of detail into a supporting performance. So, my man is Rip. Who's your favourite supporting actor in comedy?
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Radar O'Reilly
from MASH. Wasn't the same after he left. And George Wendt as Norm Peterson in Cheers.
Paul Eddington in 'The Good Life'
As Jerry Leadbetter he steals every scene he's in.
And probably the most decent character in all of comedy.
Wow
he lost out 3 times? I love his 'Schwing!'.
'Porridge' is my fave sit-com and you could pick any one of about 5 guys for best banana. Brian Wilde as Mr Barrowclough for one.
Dad's Army…
… for me it has to be John le Mesurier as Sgt Wilson. But then it's John le Mesurier, so of course.
Closely followed, though, by Jason Alexander as George in Seinfeld - probably the character who's made me laugh out loud more than any other.
It's a sitcom tradition
The sitcom format, by retaining characters and putting them in different situations every week, allows the characters to develop in a way that standup and other gag-based comedy can't compete with.
Good character actors in supporting roles can often outshine the stars that they are ostensibly supporting (they're usually much better actors, for a start). For example, although Elizabeth Montgomery was fetching enough in Bewitched, and her character was supposedly what it was all "about", it was only ever going to be Agnes Moorehead's gig really. She was the top-quality second-stringer who made it work, season after season.
Sanders is a good example of this
He just sits there, worries about his career and only lights up once the camera does, which is perfect. Meanwhile the likes of Hank and Artie appear to have personal lives, which is why they're so interesting.
Agreed, It can be the quality of the actors but also
Don't the main characters have to support the "situation" more, so they are more thought out in advance, and are consequently perhaps restricted in their plots and personality.
In the Flight of the Conchords, Murray is now becoming a more interesting character because Rhys Darby is a good actor who can carry different scenes, and also he is not restricted to story lines based around the band. And in the Good Life, Jerry and Margo weren't tied in to stories about self-sufficiency.
Frank & Hotlips!
Manuel! Latke!
It even applies in non-sitcoms. In Hill Street Blues, the travails of Howard (the SWAT team leader) and Grace were a lot more interesting than Furillo and Joyce's one-dimensional on-again-off-again arc.
A pedant writes...
Rip Torn was actually nominated 6 times for "The Larry Sanders Show" and won once, for the tremendous "Arnie After Hours" episode, which as the title implies, follows Artie for a night after the show is over - fantastic.
His "2nd Banana" status is debatable, but Alec Baldwin in "30 Rock" is superb.
I would plump
for George Costanza in Seinfeld over Kramer. For my money the best comic creation ever put on screen - although any of the 3 'supports' in Seinfeld are worth mentioning. As the Hepster has pointed out before, Elaine is not only funny but strangely attractive because of it without being cliched eyecandy.
For me
Its Niles Crane ( David Hyde Pierce ) also a great physical comedian, but his timing was spot on
Good call!
And your point would be?
Niles
in Fraser* for me, too.
*Oops, sorry, in Frasier :-)
Larry Sanders Show also but different second banana
As great at Artie is my vote goes to Jeffrey Tambor as Hank Kingsley. Larry and Artie's "personal village idiot." A character wholly defined by the terrible self-knowledge of his own mediocrity. A jealous, hate-filled man Hank will do anything to hang onto his position and all the undeserved spoils that come with it. He's utterly despicable, yet strangely sympathetic with it.
What a great show that was and the truth is if you'd nominated Hank originally I probably would have countered with "What about Artie?"
I agree
I give it to Artie because I identify with him so much.
Sadly
I veer more to George from Seinfeld these days. But good point well made etc, it's the flaws in some of these monsters that we identify with. I used to cringe at Brent and Tim in The Office because I have been just as clueless/gauche/obtuse as them, if not worse
Hey now, seconded
I still laugh out loud remembering Hank's immortal line after being caught at an orgy: 'Sex is a loving act between two, or more, people.'
It is Hank's self-awareness that he is, in essence, a talentless klutz entirely dependent on his master's patronage which elevates him to yr actual panthenon of greaqt sidekicks. He's never a 2D loathsome buffoon limping in from central casting and. as you say, there are moments where you actually will him to succeed in some nefarious half-witted scam. You couldn't say that about Boycey.
And the other thing is...
...he's not as empty a human being as Larry.
A great line that may not work in print
Hank, wide-eyed with consternation over a broken AC unit in his dressing room confronts Artie about the situation in a fix-it-or-I-walk kind of way. Artie massages his ego appropriately but ultimately refuses to commit to any action.
Hank calls after the now-departed Artie "so what am I supposed to do in the meantime? Just...fuck myself??!"
And not
forgetting the beautifully acerbic Janeane Garafalo as Paula the booking agent. Heck, you could just name any of the supporting cast and make the same claim for second banana status
I may have this not quite correct, but her and Artie...
... had my favorite moment from that show
Artie - "What's wrong with you today?"
Paula - "I'm sorry I have my period"
Artie - "you told me that last week"
Paula - "And what makes you think I wasn't lying then?"
Artie - "You looked slightly puffy."
That episode is the monkeys nuts
Followed closely by the one where Hank finds religion again, ostensibly so he can nail his female rabbi then promptly throws the towel in after he gets hate mail that threatens his sponsorship deals.
Artie came up with one of my all time favourite comedy lines...
He is trying to head off a legal suit claiming homophobic behaviour by head writer Phil:
Artie: Do you know who runs this town, Phil?
Phil: The Jews?
Artie: No, Phil. It's the GAY jews.
The Seinfeld cast have equal billing
they're all the stars of the show. Second banana status would go to Newman, who's ace.
Also Rhoda in Mary Tyler Moore
"Hello, Newman."
Spoken deadpan by Jerry's mother in one episode had me on the floor laughing...
Talking of MTM & Rhoda, I recently got the "Rhoda" box-set and Nancy Walker as Ida is brilliant, so would that be a 2nd-banana-squared? And Julie Kavner as Rhoda's sister is great too...
is Carlton the doorman - the best off-screen under-banana?
Does the Simpsons count as 'sitcom'?
if so, then any episode with the great Phil Hartman in it.
How about Krusty the Clown?
Krusty uttered my all time favourite line from anywhere at any time.
One of his advisors said, "Krusty you can survive any scandal as long as it's not sexual, financial, or involve national security"
Krusty then groaned the words, "Oh no! I paid for a Russian hooker with a bad cheque!"
Moe Szyslak
Steals every scene
Jerry St. Clair...
The brilliant Dave Spikey in "Phoenix Nights".
Colonel Hall from Sgt. Bilko
fantastic deadpan, put-upon performance from a so called superior officer constantly given the runaround by Phil Silvers and his scams. The Colonel just wants a quiet life before his retirement and although he knows exactly what is going on behind his back he just can't summon the energy or willpower to really come down hard on Bilko.
Not sure who the actor was who played Colonel Hall but he really was superb.
More on Artie
This is my first Word post (I've just fallen back in love with the magazine...) and I'm going to point out something in a nerdly manner. I promise this won't happen often.
Rip Torn did win an Emmy for playing Artie. He was nominated six times and won once. David Hyde Pierce was nominated 11 years in a row and won four. Peter O'Toole has nothing to complain about...
Anyway, I too have been rewatching Larry Sanders. It's brilliant. If you have a New Yorker subscription, go online and find the piece about Garry Shandling and his falling-out with producer/friend Brad Grey. From 1998, called "The Eighteen Year-Itch". Superb tale of money and power writ large in Nineties Hollywood.
Jim Dale
I know he was 'the lead' in many Carry On's but he was always secondary to Sid, Kenny & Charlie. Carry On films were always better with Jim Dale in them.
Good call
I also have a soft spot for Jim as, in my local hack days, his mechanic brother Mick was a good contact of mine with a host of excellent tales about said sibling
"You've come free at the side"
Lynn from I'm Alan Partridge, played by Felicity Montagu. Amazing physical performance too - she's about 15 years younger than she's playing, but utterly convincing.
Cup O'Tea, Father?
Surely Mrs Doyle wins this hands down?
Richard Beckinsale
A great foil to the larger than life characters created by Ronnie Barker in Porridge and Leonard Rossiter in Rising Damp.
Also Geoffrey Palmer in the original Reggie Perrin and Butterflies.
Roll Call: Brett? Jemaine?
Throwing in something current, Murray Hewitt in Flight of the Conchords frquently raises a belly laugh.
Good one but...
in the second series on at the moment it's almost like Murray is the main character now.
There can be only one Jamie from The Thick Of It
Pure poetry
An example of the second banana as a more extreme first banana
Jamie is like his boss, Peter Capaldi's character, but even more so, instead of being a contrast: aggressive, foul mouthed (and Scottish).
This shouldn't work but it does. The only other example of this I can think of is Niles Crane, who again, is like the main character, Frasier, but more extreme: pompous, snobbish and neurotic.
Apparently Niles was written...
... to be to Frasier what Frasier was to the Cheers crowd, i.e. the (loveable) pompous snob.
Apropos of nothing, I also read that the motto pinned up on the wall of the Frasier's writers' room was "Write it gay, play it straight."
yes fantastic choice
i almost cheered in the cinema when he came on in IN THE LOOP.
i think what i like about him is he makes malcolm look mild.
I keep reading the title as
Who's the second best banana in TV comedy?
These guys were clearly the best
so is this second best?
Dwight K Schrute
Rainn Wilson in the US version of The Office.
Deranged genius. Especially when teamed with Cousin Mose.