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When The Word jumped the shark

dai's picture

When somebody thought it was a good idea to ask "cover star" Bryan Ferry if he'd heard of iPhones and going on to explain mp3s to him.

I love huge aspects of technology but surely journalists can come up with better questions than that.

3

Seems a fair enough question to me...

He's cultivated this slightly fogeyish, almost aristocratic image, so I think it's quite interesting to find out how he relates to such modern phenomenons as 'eye-phones' and mp3s.

0
David Cooper | 18 September 2010 - 7:00am

I think so too

Ferry's answers proved them to be perfectly good questions for this particular interview. I'm sure Eamonn wouldn't have asked the same questions of, say, Brian Eno.

But then I would say that.

0
Fraser Lewry | 18 September 2010 - 7:57am

Eno

But equally, I doubt Eamonn would have adopted the same (IMHO) rather patronising tone with Eno.

I didn't really like the piece either, for the reason Dai mentioned.

0
Barry Vaughan | 18 September 2010 - 8:12am

I agree with Dai and Barry

but for me the minor shark jumping moments usually come when I have that "I could do better" feeling c.f. the Kubrick boxed set review, which recycled a very received view of SK and didn't mention the extraordinary extras, like an audio interview from the mid 60s. I'm too lazy to actually do it, mind ...

However, I also had a more major shark moment when Mark Ellen devoted yet more column inches to the Centipede.

And yet, when this issue arrived, my overall reaction was how well it targets some of my interests, e.g. William Orbit http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/william-orbit-radio-3
or Simon Callow [saw his one man show recently], etc etc, and what a good train read on a morning morning it still is.

0
SpaceBoy | 18 September 2010 - 8:46am

I agree

it was probably what you would expect from someone like Forde who seems to spend most of his time staring at an iphone on the bus. Somebody who doesn't have an iphone!!! Somebody who doesn't know what Spotify is!!!!! HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!

Forde may not realise it but there are plenty of people out there whose lives aren't dominated by Apple or technology in general and many of them actually seem to be quite happy.

12
Simon Ford | 18 September 2010 - 11:46am

I can hold

with the argument that Forde's interest in technology doesn't make technology inherently interesting but I don't believe it is as significant an issue in the context of the whole interview. It's the allusion to it in the words on the cover that has made it the centre of attention, not the article itself.

Read the article and you're left with a lasting impression of Ferry, not of Forde, despite these excursions into Forde's technophilia and his surprise at Ferry's ignorance. Given that Forde's freelance work identifies him as commentator on music technology why is it such an issue that he would use that as an angle in this interview? Why can't he express his surprise at Ferry's ignorance particularly when it transpires that it in fact provides Forde with fertile ground upon which to get into Ferry's head a bit more than one is accustomed to?

Prior to this interview I have always assumed Ferry to be a man who understands technology precisely because of the quality of production on Roxy albums (e.g. Avalon) and his subsequent solo efforts so I was surprised that he is quite oblivious to it to the extent that he is.

A search on the 'net pulled up this interview a few months ago in The Times which draws on some of the topics Forde addressed but which reveals nothing more than gossip and tittle-tattle about Ferry despite there being plenty of evidence in the words quoted that a better interviewer could have done more with what was being said rather than - as the writer here does (http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/...) - focus on Ferry's mood.

It's a classic case of a writer finding an angle and hanging the whole article off it. Forde doesn't with his angle, he takes Ferry and the interview somewhere else with it. To me that's good journalism.

3
Ahh_Bisto | 18 September 2010 - 1:41pm

Art School trained old rogue

I thought Ferry was acting out a role he's created for himself. He's as shrewd as Jagger and Bowie in the money stakes so I'm sure he's fully aware of the moves towards digitisation and what it means.

Technologically, his studio is pretty state of the art and his friend Mr Eno is the antithesis of fogeyism. Ferry also seems to be pretty au fait with the swinging beat combos of today's hit parade.

Someone - it might have been my boss - once said that the greatest luxury today is to be important or rich enough - not to have to be in touch or even contactable.

For us mere mortals, our Blackberrys, Apples and Oranges seem like rare fruit but to eminences like BF, this is food for flunkeys

3
Sheev | 18 September 2010 - 8:11am

I won't hear a bad word

said against the journalistic perfection that is Eammon Forde. Someone should turn his twitter feed into a book.

0
GunsOfBrixton | 18 September 2010 - 8:01am

I thought it was a good

I thought it was a good piece and interesting to hear Ferry's views on I-Phones etc. I'm kind of with Ferry in the old school brigade, no desire at all to own an iphone, perfectly happy with my Nokia for texting and sometimes ringing and taking pictures. I don't think I could deal with the stress of an I-Phone and how to operate one. Each to their own though, but there's more to this world than Apple.

5
David Wright | 18 September 2010 - 8:25am

I've not got around to reading...

...the article yet, but don't you think that if a little 'tache was drawn on the front cover portrait, Mr. Ferry would have the look of a certain German?

1
doomah | 18 September 2010 - 9:29am

A quick glance at the cover...

....and I thought;

"Why on earth have they put Jonathan Ross on there?"

0
Paul Waring | 23 September 2010 - 7:31pm

I thought it was...

Lord Mandelson of the Sith, myself.

0
Archie Valparaiso | 23 September 2010 - 7:38pm

Ooops...

Neil D beat me to it by nearly a week...

Great minds an' 'at...

0
Paul Waring | 23 September 2010 - 7:43pm

That will teach you for going off on your jollies

Thanks for sending Asil Nadir back btw.

0
Beany | 23 September 2010 - 7:48pm

It will indeed

I like the thought of me and Asil in a coldwar-esque exchange on a darkened bridge in some nameless mitteleuropean police state.

Or on an Easyjet airbridge at Manchester airport...

0
Paul Waring | 23 September 2010 - 9:23pm

I thought Forde played a clever hand...

in asking that type of question. I came away feeling I knew more about Ferry than I had before, and I think that was because he gave more of himself away than he might have done if the interview had been of a more 'personal' nature.

4
Patrick Crowther | 18 September 2010 - 9:35am

You beat me

to it Patrick. I fully concur with that view.

1
Ahh_Bisto | 18 September 2010 - 9:55am

Absolutely

The simple expedient of not asking the obvious questions is usually the best way of digging a little deeper. I actually thought that it was one of the best pieces in the magazine in a long while.

And (on a less positive note about the magazine generally - sorry guys) it made a change from the snippet-format that seems to have become the norm.

1
Steven C | 18 September 2010 - 11:23am

Isn't it a bit much...

...to suggest that a magazine has "jumped the shark" just because one of the interviews in it contained a couple of questions you didn't like? Or indeed an entire interview you didn't like? Or indeed a review you didn't like? "Jumping the shark", surely, means the point after which it stopped being worth bothering? Are you suggesting that because Eamonn Forde (who for my money, with Jude Rogers, produces the most consistently interesting and least egotistical writing in the magazine) wrote a piece you don't like that Word is now Officially Shit™?

Personally, I couldn't give a flaming-sambucca-drenched toss about Mr Ferry or his works, and if I ran a music magazine he wouldn't get within crooning distance of a cover story, ever. But I still enjoyed this month's mag, a lot. As usual, it was varied and interesting and I read pretty much every printed word. Can't think of any other magazine I do that with.

4
Bob | 18 September 2010 - 9:44am

On a heath & safety note..

..a flaming-sambucca-drenched toss is very likely one of those things that 'seemed like a good idea at the time'

3
FakeGeordie | 20 September 2010 - 8:33am

Perhaps

I'm reading too much into the interview but I thought the technology theme provided Eammon with a unique angle to get Ferry to open up to him. Ferry is a master of affectation and mannerism and is understandably guarded in this age of intrusive journalism.

We learned, thanks to Eammon's incisive writing, that Ferry is currently a busy man; again an impression that one doesn't normally associate with the slightly louche and detached lead singer renowned for taking his time between albums.

I think that through gadgets that Eammon found a route into Ferry's world by giving something to Ferry (i.e. explanations and demonstrations of his iphone, of mp3 as a format) to the extent that Ferry - ever the English gentleman - felt obliged to give something of himself back. A bit of quid pro quo.

Modern technology and having someone to explain it piqued Ferry's interest and I suspect put him slightly on the back foot. In other words he was just a little bit more unguarded, a little bit more willing to share information as Eammon had shared with him. Those moments where Eammon mentored would have forced Ferry to adjust his mode of response, to view his interviewer as more than just another questioning mouth-piece trying to trip him up.

In a limited time-frame and on the interviewee's home turf Eammon would have to adjust to his surroundings and I thought that discussing modern technology in the setting of a state of the art studio gave him a wealth of thematic possibilities for his face-to-face and a back-drop to coax out from Ferry just how he had adapted his methodology to his art over time when modern technology potentially provides so many easier options. Maybe Ferry realised he couldn't hide behind his own studio when giving answers because he perceived that Eammon was a man who knew his kit from his caboodle.

What we ended up with was an interesting journey through Ferry's approach to making and recording music which I strongly doubt would not have been quite so enlightening if Eammon hadn't enlightened Ferry on the whys and wherefores of iphones etc.

In my view this apparently innocuous and irrelevant sidebar of a discussion on new gizmos was anything but, it was the lynchpin to the insightful and revealing interview that followed.

3
Ahh_Bisto | 18 September 2010 - 10:45am

Apologies

for sounding dim, but what does 'jumping the shark mean'?

0
Prestonia | 18 September 2010 - 9:58am

Going too far

jumping the shark is an idiom used to describe the moment of downturn for a previously successful enterprise.

The phrase jump the shark refers to the climactic scene in "Hollywood", the third part of a three-part episode opening the fifth season of the American TV series Happy Days in September 1977. In this story, the central characters visit Los Angeles, where Fonzie (Henry Winkler), wearing swim trunks and his leather jacket, jumps over a confined shark on water skis, answering a challenge to demonstrate his bravery.

(c&p) from Wikipedia

1
badartdog | 18 September 2010 - 10:06am

It's also woth mentioning...

That the point at which something "jumps the shark" can only really be judged with the benefit of hindsight, not at the time.

1
Fraser Lewry | 18 September 2010 - 1:08pm

Yes, but

I have an app on my iPhone that gives me the benefit of hindsight before anyone else.

2
dai | 18 September 2010 - 2:16pm

Excellent

If you could let us know what's on the cover over the next dozen or so issues, that would save us an enormous amount of discussion.

1
Fraser Lewry | 18 September 2010 - 2:33pm

Happy to Oblige

Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits
Tom Waits

Saved you all a bunch of meetings there, let me assure you.

1
Jonah | 18 September 2010 - 3:11pm

May I butt in here?

The Unthanks
Rush
Gillian Welch and David Rawlings
Ivor Cutler
Supertramp
Steely Dan
Lemmy meets Joanna Newsom
Chic
Jeff Beck
Randy Newman
Mulatu Astatke
Judas Priest

0
Patrick Crowther | 18 September 2010 - 4:04pm

I'd just like to add

from stand up Gary Delaney's twitter feed (and posted with permission):

Sharks refer to a programme that is past it's best as having 'Gone under the Fonz'.

3
Fraser M | 21 September 2010 - 11:14am

I didn't really know what it meant either...

So thanks for making me feel less thick

0
stepheny | 18 September 2010 - 1:01pm

A term used to describe something that was previously

very good but has now lost it usually regarding a tv series.

All here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

Edit:badartdog beat me to it and I don't know how to delete.

0
Blue Sky | 18 September 2010 - 10:15am

I liked it

I've never listened to Bryan Ferry or Roxy Music, but reading Forde's interview made me want to go away and investigate. Normally a sign of a good piece, that.

As for the bits about his technophobia, I thought it was interesting. We take it as read that people use iPods, iPads, iPhones, Twitter, Spotify...etc nowadays, so it's refreshing to hear from somone who doesn't.

1
Spartacus Mills | 18 September 2010 - 10:21am

Start with the first album 'Roxy Music'

it was all slowly downhill from there.

0
stimpy | 18 September 2010 - 5:12pm

Actually

I think Stranded is their zenith. Brian Eno agrees with me, and he wasn't even on it. :-)

0
Black Type | 19 September 2010 - 12:24am

Actually...

...he does appear to be on Twitter, after all...

0
Paolo Meccano | 23 September 2010 - 7:55pm

Interesting

He's been on Twitter for 45 days, which places his registration - unless I'm much mistaken - at around the time Eamonn talked to him. I wonder if there's a connection?

0
Fraser Lewry | 23 September 2010 - 8:03pm

Amazing

how he can register a mere 45 days ago and STILL be able to have @bryanferry

0
Beany | 23 September 2010 - 8:41pm

Fancy that

If "For those who can use BBC iPlayer, a review of Olympia from R4's Front Row programme. It's the first item on the show http://bbc.in/bXsabg"

is a representative sample tweet, perhaps Eamonn is writing it for him
;-)

0
SpaceBoy | 23 September 2010 - 9:56pm

The Word

The kind of magazine you would wish your wife or servants to read?

2
Beany | 18 September 2010 - 10:29am

Oh is it Bryan Ferry?

There's me wondering why Jonathan Ross was on the cover...

1
Neil Dyson | 18 September 2010 - 11:58am

I've never been able to warm to Bryan Ferry...

Not sure I can put my finger on why...

Some of Bowie's music is glacial, colder and more detatched than anything Ferry has produced yet Bowie the individual just seems warmer and more convivial.

0
Six Dog | 18 September 2010 - 11:58am

I think that might be

due to his awkwardness in interviews both on paper and on tape; he is notoriously shy and guarded in those contexts. Seeing him performing is quite a revelation, in that he is much less self-conscious (anyone who 'dances' like that has to be!) and comes across as a warm, inclusive and engaging personality.

0
Black Type | 18 September 2010 - 12:45pm

What kind of man...

...names his son after a brand of elevator?

No wonder he became so keen on blood sports!

1
mojoworking | 20 September 2010 - 8:38am

The strangest aspect

of the interview for me, as others have pointed out previously, is Mr Forde's bizarre preoccupation with how Bryan pronounces the word 'i-phone' as two words...And the point is? How the hell else is it meant to be pronounced? The inference was that poor Luddite Bryan was, y'know, a bit backward with all this new-fangled technology to the extent that even the names were a mystery - which I thought came across as a tad patronising, and in the context, inexplicable.
Yes, he called it an 'i phone'; newsflash - so do I and indeed any other person I've ever heard say the name.

4
Black Type | 18 September 2010 - 1:13pm

Its 'eefawnee' surely?

Actually I am sure Mr Ferry said it in such enormous inverted commas as to render it deliberately rather ludicrous. I actually enjoyed the interview, he didn't come over as a 65 year old man trying to extract the last few knockings from a career as I half expected, but a cussedly motivated (and doubtless infuriating) working musician.

I thought it was revealing how he has to do private corporate gigs to pay for his endless recording - I always pitied his record company from the late 80's onwards waiting for the recording to emerge. I assumed he had to be paying for the recoding himself - hence the M&S ads - hence perhaps his son working for him? - unless the alimony is still biting I suppose

0
FakeGeordie | 20 September 2010 - 8:45am

I too thought the Bryan

I too thought the Bryan Ferry interview was full of crass sniggering. Impertinent just about covers it. The idea that if you aren't across modern technology you are a semi-senile curio worthy of a send-up sees Word wearing a backwards baseball cap and break dancing wiv da kidz. Might as well have written: Yeah this fossil still goes to art galleries - don't he know you can dowload 'em to your iPad. What a grandad we got here!

I wanted Ferry to turn round and say, "Hang on kiddo - I wrote Pyjamarama. Whats your fucking contribution to the planet?"

6
Bodhisattva | 18 September 2010 - 12:58pm

Perception

I didn't get that vibe at all. I thought Forde approached the issue with genuine affection and curiosity, rather than the mocking tone you suggest.

3
Spartacus Mills | 18 September 2010 - 1:28pm

E's thrown a kettle over a pub.

What've you ever done?

:-D

Also, let's not forget that it's the job of a journalist to ask questions. I'd cancel my subscription in a heartbeat if anything approaching reverence entered into the writing. A bit of impertinence - and I didn't think the article *was* impertinent, actually - is a GOOD thing in this context. What do you want - completely hagiography?

4
Bob | 18 September 2010 - 1:40pm

That's the real quiz.

That's the real quiz.

0
Spartacus Mills | 18 September 2010 - 2:07pm

No axe to grind here

Never been remotely interested in Ferry, but that was a good interview. I particularly liked his reaction to Spotify - 'that would be great for a party!' Ferry has never struck me as very human before.

0
Mavis Diles | 18 September 2010 - 2:54pm

Both sides of both sides...

...I really like the interview and, like others, thought it made Ferry much more human than other interviews.

On the other hand, I could happily see fewer mentions of Apple products in the Word, I have to say.

I'm also bemused by the i-phone pronunciation. What is it meant to be?

0
JoLean | 18 September 2010 - 2:58pm

I wondered if he meant

that BF puts the emphasis on the phone as opposed to the 'i', if you know what I mean? Most people put the stress on the 'i'.
Eamonn should post here and put all our minds at rest on this subject.

0
Mr Fade | 19 September 2010 - 11:14pm

intonation

could well be what it is, I'd agree. Bryan Ferry has always had a North-Eastern accent, and now seems a bit less inhibited about it than before.

If it's so earth-shatteringly important to find out, an audio clip would help (assuming the interview was conducted that way and it doesn't put anyone's in PR's nose out of joint).

0
DLM | 20 September 2010 - 12:06am

'Why-aye-pet-Phone'

?

1
stimpy | 20 September 2010 - 8:47am

So - a why-aye phone then...

Tumbleweed

Gets coat

Has to leave adopted Northumberland home permananently

1
FakeGeordie | 20 September 2010 - 8:48am

Stimpy beat me by 1 minute

Curses curses

0
FakeGeordie | 20 September 2010 - 8:49am

Oops, sorry...

Given your name, how about I blank mine out and let you take the credit? ;-)

0
stimpy | 20 September 2010 - 8:56am

No ta but thanks for the thought

I'm only a fake Geordie after all!

0
FakeGeordie | 20 September 2010 - 9:03am

I think you're right

I'm guessing that BF's pronunciation of iPhone spoke volumes about what he thinks of them. Just as a former friend of mine sneeringly pronounced Ms Mitchell's name as if she were 'Joe Knee'.

0
PeteWingrave | 20 September 2010 - 8:55am

Iffonnie

isn't it?

0
Five-Centres | 18 September 2010 - 3:00pm

Thanks,

I can be down with the kids now. I'll try it out in the pub tonight and see how I get on.

0
JoLean | 18 September 2010 - 3:11pm
stimpy | 18 September 2010 - 5:14pm

Following

Eamonn Forde on Twitter I got the impression that he was a mahoosive Roxy/Ferry fan - any suggestion of sniping or mocking is, I would imagine, purely unintentional.

0
badartdog | 18 September 2010 - 5:51pm

Credit where it's due

Can I be the first to say that the cover artwork on the latest issue is astonishingly good?

I'm not a fan of Ferry (far from it), nor have I read the interview yet, but that illustration showing him as a 60-something crooner, jowls and all, is spookily accurate and a fine piece of work.

1
mojoworking | 19 September 2010 - 1:05am

I like the piece

I felt a tiny clunk when Mr Forde mentioned his iPhone 4 rather than an iPhone. It reminded me of the joke "How do you know when someone has an iPhone? They will tell you."

But the rest was great and showed Mr Ferry to be more interesting than I thought he was going to be.

1
Leedsboy | 20 September 2010 - 6:26pm

"Well of course it's the new *Mark 3* Cortina"

Is there any other product for which people feel the need to quote the model number to everyone in regular conversation?

I have a John Lewis mark 2 fridge and the very rare revision 4.1 Morphy Richards kettle.

0
stimpy | 21 September 2010 - 8:42am

Do people really do that?

I've never heard anyone say that. Eamonn doesn't say it it the piece, either - although showing Ferry the front-facing camera makes it obvious which model it is.

0
Fraser Lewry | 21 September 2010 - 9:09am

I thought he did

Top of the second page - something like "I showed Ferry my iPhone 4"

Don't have the magazine here though - reading that in the office would be too obvious......

0
Leedsboy | 21 September 2010 - 10:40am

You're quite right

I missed that altogether.

0
Fraser Lewry | 21 September 2010 - 10:56am

Depends

A car enthusiast, when talking to another car enthusiast, would no doubt offer such details. IT enthusiasts are no different, it seems.

I genuinely couldn't tell you what sort of Nokia I've got without checking, but I could reel off a few stats about my car at the drop of a hat.

0
Spartacus Mills | 21 September 2010 - 10:48am

MK III Cortina?

Have we entered a Life On Mars-type scenario?

Where's Gene Hunt when you need him?

0
mojoworking | 21 September 2010 - 11:04am
Leedsboy | 21 September 2010 - 11:14am

I enjoyed it

I thought it was an illuminating interview, especially given that Ferry is usually so careful in interviews.

1
el hombre malo | 21 September 2010 - 11:26am

I though the Ferry interview

I though the Ferry interview was fine - my main complaint with The Word recently is that there are too many two-page interviews with stand-up comedians, all of whom seem to be forty-something blokes with exactly the same opinions.

If I wanted to read that, I'd come here.

7
Kit Hogue | 21 September 2010 - 6:29pm
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