When kids sang the darndest things
Danny Baker and I have been wondering what happened to incredibly mature observations from what we might now call "kids". One obvious example of this is the young Jackson Browne (pictured left), who was not yet eighteen when he wrote "These Days", which contains the line:
Now if I seem to be afraid
To live the life I have made in song
Well it's just that Ive been losing so long
He wasn't far into his twenties when he wrote the even-better "Fountain Of Sorrow". From this distance it might be possible to call this precious but you can't pretend it doesn't say something quite important about the way people are:
But when you see through loves illusions, there lies the danger
And your perfect lover just looks like a perfect fool
So you go running off in search of a perfect stranger
While the loneliness seems to spring from your life
Like a fountain from a pool
I think George Harrison was about twenty-six when he wrote "nothing in this life that I've been trying can equal or surpass the art of dying". And Smokey Robinson was not yet thirty when he sang "just like Pagliacci did I try to keep my surface hid". So what happened to this kind of mature insight, most of which came from people who left school at 15? Does it still come from young songwriters? Where does "they tried to make me go to rehab I said no no no" stand next to this sort of stuff? And if it's gone for good, how come?
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Assume it's some kind of test but
nevertheless 'Surface' - should be 'sadness' - or I have I been mishearing for 40 years?
Been racking my brains and the only contender I can come up with at the moment is Guy Garvey and he's no spring chicken (comparatively).
You've passed the test!
I think Mr H must've googled it. When I read his post I thought : surely that's 'sadness'. So I googled, and the first few results came up with 'surface'. But like you, I've been hearing 'sadness' since the sixties, so delved further and found a couple of results backing us up. (As an aside, while i realise that pop lyrics and sense don't always go hand in hand, what the hell would 'I try to keep my surface hid' actually mean? I suppose you could concoct some argument involving a clown's makeup, but really....Smokey's better than that!) Anyhow, given the conflicting results I put on the cans, cranked up the volume and listened. Not a shadow of doubt : it's 'sadness'. But what a hell of a way to get the day moving forwards and help me forget my cold. So thank you, David, for being so helpfully wrong!
Definitely 'Sadness'
Like you guys I've always known that as 'sadness'. 'Surface' simply doesn't make any sense anyway. But go on and listen to the track, at volume, quietly, no matter what - it's definitely 'Sadness'. Absolutely no doubt.
yep just checked
keep "my surface hid" is weird line not un-poetical but sadness hid is more direct. Just a case how the net multiplys mistakes and repeats.
Just goes to show ...
never accept the first source. Google? Wikipedia? He'll never admit it of course.
It's almost a cliche..
...to mention Alex Turner at times like this, but he's a great lyricist. And while she's not writing in the way you describe I really like Kate Nash for lyrics. I know lots of people on here will go...WHAT? But she has a really good lyrical style, and both follow on from that very British tradition that began with The Kinks back in the day and moved up through Weller, Costello, Ian Dury and Squeeze and re-emerged (for me at least) with Jarvis Cocker.
I think some of the problem is that lyrics became something of a last minute thought during the 90s. I mean, I like some of Oasis' work but lyrically Noel is no Smokey Robinson. And dance music was obviously never about lyrics. There's a generation (or two) of bands/songwriters who aren't or haven't been really about lyrics.
Townes Van Zandt
Would have been 23 or 24 when his first album was released. It features what I believe to be the first song he ever wrote, Waitin' Round To Die.
It continues in this vein for another four verses. By the end of the song he's been in prison and is addicted to codeine.
Hardly McFly, is it?
RT (sorry!) was about 25 when he wrote...
'The End Of The Rainbow'...
I feel for you, you little horror
Safe at your mother’s breast
No lucky break for you around the corner
‘Cos your father is a bully
And he thinks that you’re a pest
And your sister, she’s no better than a whore
Life seems so rosy in the cradle
but I’ll be a friend, I’ll tell you what’s in store
There’s nothing at the end of the rainbow
There’s nothing to grow up for anymore
And how old was Sandy Denny
when she wrote
"Across the evening sky, all the birds are leaving
But how can they know it's time for them to go?
Before the winter fire, I will still be dreaming
I have no thought of time
For who knows where the time goes?"
I believe it was the first song she ever wrote as well.
Second, says the pedant
It's popularly supposed to be the second song she ever wrote, the first having been lost. I heard this reported for the umpteenth time by Joe Boyd and Linda Thompson at the tribute concert, held at the Troubadour this spring, marking the 30th anniversary of Sandy's death.
Smile to my face
No need to apologise Patrick.
As a counterpoint.....
to Patricks posting of RTs finest dirgesong, End of the Rainbow, and I don't know how old Ewan Maccoll was when he wrote this, but I like to think of him singing this to Neil. (Mind you, he had probably long since buggered off to Peggy Seeger by then). Here's the version I like best, by Dick Gaughan:
RT was only about 19
when he wrote this too
"We used to say "There'd come the day we'd all be making songs
Or finding better words" These ideas never lasted long
The way is up along the road, the air is growing thin
Too many friends who tried, blown off this mountain with the wind"
Beat that anyone in my view for worldly teens.
In my life
Doesn't get much better than that. Since this was recorded in 1965 John Lennon was at most 25 when he wrote it.
High Land Hard Rain
by Aztec Camera - pretty much every track is a lyrical gem. Roddy Frame was in his teens, I believe, when he wrote and recorded it.
As for now, Alex Turner has made an impression on this old git, that guy from Reverend and the Makers is interested in lyrics, though I haven't heard enough to know if he's got a lot going on.
I wondered whether the lack of profundity in pop is anything to do with us living in a more visual society, where gratification often has to be instant and so much entertainment is passive, but decided against this. For all the celebrated young wordsmiths and soul barers listed here, there were hundreds of trite writers and cliche pushers in the limelight.
The Reverend
Funnily enough he was also one that crossed my mind too.
I went to a lyrics page to look for 'Sundown on the Empire' which I enjoy, only to discover that when down in black and white they don't really cut the mustard.
Which raises another point. We need to recognise that we are judging todays talent against the sum total of all the talent in the last 40 years or so. It feels to me (to exaggerate a bit) a bit like asking why we don't have any Mozarts or Shakespeares today.
It's easy - they don't come along very often - that's why.
Conor Oberst
Wrote every word on I'm Wide Awake Its Morning before he was 24 and it's some of the finest rock and roll poetry ever created.
Seconded
I have long felt that Conor's genius isn't appreciated at Word. He hits the nail on so many levels for the Word writers and readers: lyrically, musically, uniqueness, prodigious talent and so young, his connections, his frequency of quality output...
Whatever the discussion on here, Conor Oberst is an answer.
Oberst - yes
I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and his earlier stuff can be hit and miss (and in severe need of an edit), but that fact that he scored any hits at all when he was practically a foetus makes him well worthy. Always managed an empathy for those with limited suburban ambitions rather than simply railing at them.
Still reckon his noisy "Desparecidos" album is the best thing he's done...
I don't want to be contrary
But you may founding a theory on thin foundations there was alot of slight, nonsensical, cod profound and frankly tosh lyrics written in the 60's particularly by second string bands acting up the influence of Dylan. There is after all "a thin line between clever and stupid".
I always weary of writers old before their years, they seem to have had an awful lot of bad lover affairs by the age of 21 for instance!
That Neil...
Now you say youre leavin home
cause you want to be alone.
Aint it funny how you feel
When you're findin out its real?
Mind you, that Joni put him in his place...
So the years spin by and now the boy is twenty
Though his dreams have lost some grandeur
Coming true
There'll be new dreams, maybe better dreams and plenty
Before the last revolving year is through.
And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
Were captive on the carousel of time
We can't return, we can only look behind
From where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game
David Ford?
I thought the question was about todays younger writers?
How about a bit of David Ford born in 78...still a young un?
Requiem
well the world’s getting heavy and it sticks to my feet
well practiced in losing and brave in defeat
with no friends in this business you keep your enemies sweet
and keep one in the chamber for every stranger you meet
A long time ago
Your fault or mine,
It's such a tough one to call,
Do you one day look up to see your innocence fall,
From a twelve storey window, to the concrete below,
It was all such a long time ago.
Loss of idealism
The reason there is not so much of this kind of thing today may be because in the 60s and 70s there was a lot of navel gazing and philosophising about life and the universe and all that, and it was cool to do. Being deep was hip! Now and then someone especially talented hit on something truly profound and wise amongst all the bullshit others came out with. The difference now is that that hippy attitude is not cool, not been for a long time, plus the idealism that went with it has all but disappeared in the face of the harsh reality that mankind isn't going to change for the better. Good lyrics still get written but I suspect less artists attempt the more profound insights for fear of embarrassing themselves or of being uncool. Whereas back in the 60s and 70s they were much more keen to have a go. Or something like that possibly?
Macca - year by year
23 - when he wrote Yesterday
24 - Eleanor Rigby
25 - She's Leaving Home
And how old
for the Frog Song?
It was the 80s though
John Martyn, Floyd, Bowie and a ton of others went on the wobble back then.
Not this again!
I do get a bit riled by this song being wheeled out time and again as an example of the deterioration of McCartney's talents. It was a children's record for goodness sake. Sir Paul has made plenty of lousy records to criticise, why pick on one that was aimed squarely at very young children? For what it's worth, I also think We All Stand Together (which I think was its title) is a charming and tuneful little piece in itself.
Whereas
'Ebony and Ivory' had so much that was profound to say about the human condition. Sorry, couldn't resist!
If Stevie Wonder. . .
got half as much stick as Macca for E&O and an extra bit for "I Just Called. . .", then he'd, er, have a bit more than half as much stick as Macca would. . .er, hang on, bear with me. . . .
Perhaps
the rather large stick for 'I just called...' is more than stick enough without adding insult to injury (caused by a stick?)for other crimes against music, or something...?
Don't push me
I'll get there. If Macca's stick was twice and a bit as long as Stevie. . . no. Wait. . . .
personally Archie
I'd just take both their sticks and make it into one great big stick and soundly flog both of them for their 'orrible contribution to racial harmony. Then again, perhaps not!!
The Macca equivalent of Beatlejohn's cringeworthy "Imagine"
we use to play
we all stand together in the school band and it was good fun to play plus I like it anyway
Quite right!
I remember when it came out. My cousin, who was four or five, bloody loved 'We All Stand Together'. Because it is a catchy song. For kids.
This feels like
...a variation of the “music isn’t as good now as it was in such an such a decade” discussion, which has reverberated down through the ages.
I doubt that there has ever been a time when young songwriters and poets weren’t writing observations that made them appear wise beyond their years. Maybe it’s our crowded contemporary marketplace that makes it harder for these artists to stand out. Or maybe, on a blog where most of the posters have pushed past 40 and have tastes that reflect their age, we’re just not looking in the right places.
If music made by young, up-and-coming bands gets its first exposure in the pages of the NME and either remains unacknowledged by the highbrow press, or is dismissed out of hand, then it’s not surprising that the older record buying public are going to be out of touch with what the younger generation of artists are doing. I would be willing to bet that if you subjected the supposedly generic mounds of Indie landfill to closer scrutiny, in amongst the trash, you would uncover moments of lyrical clarity and insight.
There was a time when my record buying was informed by what I read in the weekly music press and I purchased a lot of albums made by young artists. One person who springs to mind is Lauren Laverne, who was 19, or thereabouts, when Kenickie released their first album. She penned lyrics that embodied the emotional extremes of the teenage experience. Simple truisms such as “Nobody wants to see you struggle, they remember they're in trouble.” Exuberant songs that would pull the rug out from underneath you at unexpected moments. A case in point, the verses of People We Want - snap shots of drinking and late nights, which give way to momentary self-awareness and self-doubt during the chorus:
“If we go home
what happens now?
If we stay on
will we be the people we want?”
I’ll put in another vote for Coner Oberst. A young, but consistently brilliant and insightful lyricist in the Dylanesque mould. I think he has a solo album out on Monday.
well said
also don't trust Danny Baker's view on owt , he's under the belief it's all been down hill since 1972 and he's in process of selling all his records (if his shows to be believed)
True there are examples
from recent years, but they don't come to mind easily. Jarvis Cocker has some insights for example, but he wasn't so young for it to be as remarkable. I think there may be a fear of the deep, as it were. But it is always hard to be sure one isn't looking back with the old pink specs.
I seem to remember
our Danny raving about Jacko's "Off The Wall" period (his best stuff, I think) then years later saying he was only winding people up. Strange!!
Laura Marling
Saw her last night at the Folk Festival. Lyrics, voice, performance, everything about her exudes maturity but she's bloody 18!
And her album was produced by the chap out of Noah and the Whale who is 21!
Precocious bastards.
Mike Skinner
From the `45th generation Roman' line on The Streets first album that instantly pierced any notion of Little England bigotry, to the extremely touching lyrics to Never Went To Church, that may chime with anyone who's lost their dad, he's a cut above almost all contemporaries.
And he's done it all while still apparently getting twatted on brandy and nefarious substances. Bound to catch up with him in the end, but judging by the new video Rob Fitz has posted on his blog, it hasn't happened yet...
Mike Scott, feelin´old and weary at 27 in 1985
Now if you're feelin' weary
if you've been alone too long
Maybe you've been suffering from
a few too many
Plans that have gone wrong
and you're trying to remember
How fine your life used to be
running around banging your drum
Like it's 1973
well that was the river
This is the sea!
wooo!
Then again, so did I. At 21. Wooo indeed! Luckily things have improved since then.
There's more to do
Most artists write their best stuff before the age of 25, when introspection tends to get wearying. If you were young and that way inclined in the old days, there wasn't much to do except sit in your bedroom, listen to the radio, read books, plunk away on your Epiphone & write songs, the subject of which would invariably be the songwriter. Nowadays, the distractions for kids are so great (SMS, DVD, DVB, DAB, PC, Wii, PS3 - and that's just the acronyms) it's a wonder any songs get written at all.
Words don't count as much
As mentioned above, the primary influences of previous generations of songwriters would be the written or spoken word; even if they saw TV it wasn't aimed at them. Consequently, they were more literate & better able to express themselves in writing. Even the dull ones were aware of scansion, meter and rudimentary rhyme. In contrast, most modern lyrics look like a fridge covered in random word magnets.
Saint Bob
My back pages;
Good and bad, I define these terms
Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.
1964, so that means he was 23 (which admittedly seems like pretty young to an old git like me).
I'm another vote for Roddy Frame - the first artist I loved who was/is younger than me - and Alex Turner.
I'm baffled
I've always found the whole "good lyrics and young!?" thing a bit baffling really, I don't see why it is surprising? Most very-good songwriters started out at least reasonably well. Some get better as they get older but many writers never match their early work.
Let's not forget too that if your first album came out at the age of thirty, you would most likely release your 10-12 best songs and at least a couple of those must be ten years old for you.