Entertainment For Lively Minds
When Do Orchestras Work Well With Pop/Rock Music?
A few weeks ago I found an old tape of Eric Clapton performing with a full orchestra at the Albert Hall; it was from a Radio One Broadcast back in the nineties when Clapton performed his concerto for guitar and orchestra. Some if it worked okay,but some of his songs just sounded cluttered,overblown and a little bit cheesy with the full orchestra.
Maybe you had to be there to fully appreciate it,but as Peter Gabriel hits the road with an orchestra,I wonder if this will really work and what examples of artists/groups with orchestras do you have that really do work well?
I can't think of that many recorded examples that seem to gel performers from the rock and classical worlds together that well, although a few years ago I saw Richard Ashcroft performing with the BBC Orchestra and his music really did benefit from talents of the BBC players.I think Ashcroft enjoyed the experience, but I guess it was just another days work for most of the BBC players.
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99% of the time...
it's a case of rock musicians thinking that they will be taken more seriously if they play alongside classical musicians. But very occasionally, when serious thought has been put into the arrangements, an orchestra can add something worthwhile and different to an artist's work. I would cite Joni Mitchell's album Both Sides Now and Robert Plant and Jimmy Page's employment of an Egyptian orchestra as examples of when it has really worked.
Egyptian Plant Orchestras
I haven't heard Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now, but had kind of forgotten about Plant and Pages' work with an orchestra, I'll give No Quarter another listen over the weekend. As I remember, Michael Lee's drumming on the latter was very good indeed and captured the spirit of John Bonham well. David Gilmour's last live album with the orchestra worked pretty nicely in parts too.
i second the motion
i second the motion
Where I find rock meets orchestration
tends to clash is when the orchestration just feels like a bolt-on rather than an inherent part of the song.
So for example Eleanor Rigby is successful because it's those harmonies set against the octet (actually a quartet doubling up), no other instrumentation is involved but it still feels like a pop/rock song because of the spirited "Vivaldi-like" playing and those trademark HJH vocals. You've then got the mono wall of sound of Phil Spector where the orchestration is sheer exhilaration and tension throughout: an adrenaline rush. I suspect the effect would be lessened if the songs were made in stereo.
I find many modern songs use hackneyed orchestration as a signal to say "oh here's our sensitive song" or they've listened to River Man by Nick Drake and decided that's the effect that's needed to polish their turd: orchestration as padding, as a distraction from the unequivocal averageness of the song or the artist. There are plenty of "indie" bands who've resorted to this tactic. Personally I blame The Verve, who made a couple of decent songs with orchestration (History, The Drugs Don't Work) but simultaneously appeared to kick-start a chain of dirge-ridden indie rock acts trying too hard to come across as if they "really mean it" simply because orchestration is an indication of their "maturity".
Cock-on, Bisto.
Exactly what I was going to post, but much better than I could have managed. But I was intending to use the turd-polishing analogy as well.
Thinking, though.. the examples you quote are just strings and not a full orchestra.
Your point, however, remains absolutely valid.
ABC's Lexicon Of Love
got me into music that used strings/orchestration. So, in that vein Nick Drake, Philly soul, Scott Walker, ELO, the Manics on Design For Life, Wah! On Story Of The Blues all light my particular fire.
Another couple of favourites...
An old favourite is Caravan's "Caravan and the New Sinfonia", a live album which includes a blinding version of their "For Richard". More recently, Elbow's live recording of the Seldom Seen Kid album, with orchestra, worked brilliantly, I reckon.
Two particularly bad examples, both oldies, are Deep Purple's "Concerto For Group and Orchestra", and Frank Zappa's "200 Motels", the latter being mostly unlistenable.
Funny Elbow
Was their an official release of this Elbow live album or was it just a bbc broadcast? I missed it at the time.
Official release, bundled with a DVD
...and an absolute 'must buy' in my opinion.
You can get it from all good record shops and from some rubbish ones as well.
And here, of course:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seldom-Seen-Abbey-Road-Live/dp/B002S2EFH2/ref=sr...
Is the CD
the original album or the soundtrack to the DVD?
The soundtrack
but really you should own both - anyone's life would be enriched by The Seldom Seen Kid.
Cheers
Thanks for that, i can see a purchase coming on after pay day
Van Morrison
Too Late To Stop Now and the superb version of Caravan. That has some lovely strings on it.
Bob Dylan at the Great Music Experience
Bob with strings - just amazing!!
Elbow
I thought the Abbey Road / Orchestra version of the Massive's favourite "Seldom Seen Kid" was even better than the original.
Quite possibly their finest moment
the last minute and a half or so are just sublime. The piano figure answered by the harp, the solitary french horn and finally, of all things, a bowed saw - simply stunning.
Aah.. good, that..
Can anyone tell me why some of the orchestra have got half-cans on and some not?
That'll be the rugby fans.
Wigan were at home, and it was on Five Live.
Leiber and Stoller...
...need a mention here. Their production of hits by The Drifters set the standard for strings in pop music.
http://open.spotify.com/track/5Aqnf8w3OZG0RQIW90QGaP
http://open.spotify.com/track/7yp7g1xhhZn4VpPF1Pnvrx
When the Walrus is at the helm
When you have a combination of cellists who look like librarians, a violin section that looks like the committee of the Rotary club, lashings of wah wah guitar and percussion and, above all, the dear old Walrus at the helm.
Must have stuck this up about about three times now in various contexts. Apologies for being a bore, but my love for it is unlimited.
Richard Ashcroft
would benefit from ANYTHING that distracted from, well, Richard Ashcroft.
I'd love to see Muse going for the full Wagner - lasers akimbo and kettle-drums pummelling.
Do orchestras work on pop music records? One answer:
The Second Coming
My name was selected from a prize draw to see Ashcroft. It was one of those rare times in my life when i have won anything. As well as Jesus Ashcroft onstage the crowd seemed just as excited too see another messiah onstage in Johnathan Moses Ross.
Dare I Mention...
Early (Harvest label) Barclay James Harvest, particularly, BJH and Other Short Stories. The Poet into After The Day. Marvellous.
Portishead - NYC
Always thought the orchestra worked perfectly on this album.
Too true.
The first great live album of the DVD era?
Great live album
full stop.
Procol Harum
"A Salty Dog". A great record, which wouldn't be the same without the orchestration.
I absolutely love that track
and will always thank Marc Almond for introducing it to me via his A Woman's Story mini album nearly 25 years ago.
Young man
In the days when I would listen to Neil Young as part of my regular listening mix, I was always taken with this track from Harvest. The orchestra provides a sense of drama that complements the lyric. The video is tastefully done too.
wonderful!
thanks for that Nick. Always thought of that track as filler and haven't listened to it for ages but it suits my Sunday morning mood and the video really complements it.
Surprised to find no mention yet of
The Divine Comedy.
On the early albums, and again from Absent Friends onwards, it's not so much a band with an orchestra stapled on, as an orchestra with added rhythm section. It really is an integral part of the music, and is quite wonderful.
Little Bear - Guillemots
I had the pleasure to be there for this one -
Ian Dury
Just listened to Uncle Ian's "Sueperman's Big Sister" - great stuff, Ian with strings, superb:
http://open.spotify.com/track/4IGGUAoE5ZfhIYAPUX2K09
More Procul Harum