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What's BBC radio got against radio stars?

David Hepworth's picture

Chris Moyles will probably be off on a rant this morning because there's a story in the Daily Mail claiming that "Radio One bosses" (I love that image) are planning to ease him out next year because of "plummeting listeners" (I also love that image because it suggests people actually falling out of high windows). I can't claim to be a fan of Moyles but what really disturbs me - and ought to disturb everyone - is the rumour that he's going to be replaced by Vernon Kay, who's another bloody TV presenter. Like Moyles or not, he understands his medium. Why BBC radio persists in the belief that the solution to every problem is to get some good-looking person off the telly and put them in front of a radio microphone I do not know. No, actually I do. Their belief in "cross media" has now blinded them to the fact that the people who are really really good at radio are different (for a start they've got something to say that doesn't come off a script), which is why they've ended up replacing Terry Wogan with Chris Evans, a radio genius, of course, but one who couldn't get arrested by national radio when he first came to London. They were probably too busy grooming somebody off Blue Peter.

3

In reverse

Couldn't agree more. Of the recent changes announced for Radio 2 and Five Live, I don't think they've got a single one right. Similarly, they also believe that if you have proved yourself on radio then automatically you must be perfect to host some dreary, early evening, light entertainment show.

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James Helford | 4 November 2009 - 6:47am

That's always been the case, though...

...or have you forgotten Simon Mayo and Steve Wright's terrible non-TOTP TV careers?

(Scruples, anyone..?)

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Paolo Meccano | 4 November 2009 - 10:53am

Who else are they going to get?

The trouble is, such has been the collapse of local radio over the past few years, there are far fewer young potential radio stars getting their break and learning their trade. And as formats and playlists become increasingly formulaic and computerised, there's less scope for creativity.
In these circumstances, I can see why the Beeb might go for the easy option of a ready-made celeb. The fact that Vernon Kay is northern also helps, given their obsession with not appearing London-centric.

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David Cooper | 4 November 2009 - 7:07am

Agree

I'm sick of all these TV stars on the radio, skilled broadcasters are becoming a rare breed. At least we still have the likes of Bob Harris,Steve Lurpack, Radcliffe & Macaroni, Johnnie Walker and Gideon Coe. We need you fresh new younger blood behind the turntables, John Peel's son is promising though, but we don't need the likes of George Lamb.

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David Wright | 4 November 2009 - 8:14am

Why is it always a bloke?

?

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Chris G | 4 November 2009 - 8:43am

That's not very kind

to Zoe Ball or Sara Cox!

With regard to the wider debate, while I can totally agree with DH's views on replacing radio presenters with tv presenters, I'm not sure I'd particularly trust the Daily Mail to be straight with the facts where it concerns the BBC; they've got vested interests and a history of agenda-led journalism.

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Fraser M | 4 November 2009 - 8:53am

I was making a general point

about BBC radio which is largely a boys club across every network and if you immediately choose a bloke you cut the pool of "talent" in half. Part of the problem with this "blandification" of radio is the fall out of Sachsgate and the Beeb trying to mind it's language when a traditionally anti BBC Tory government is likely to come to power.

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Chris G | 4 November 2009 - 9:04am

Good point

It's a tremendous point.
We have a lot of female students doing radio journalism courses and are brilliant on the wireless but who eventually struggle to get air time on local commercial radio -which seems, more than ever, to be a wholly mid-Atlantic drawl boys club.
If the Beeb turns its back on developing talented female broadcasters then we are stuffed.

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PaddyH | 4 November 2009 - 9:40am

Funny you should say that...

My wife's the news editor for a local radio station and she's got too many female radio journalists - or rather, she's got too few male ones to provide a bit of variety to the on-air sound. Maybe it's just a local anomaly, but she can't find any good men (ahem).

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David Cooper | 4 November 2009 - 10:00am

Excellent point...

Has anyone listened to the absolute disaster zone of Gethin Jones show on 5Live? Completely ill suited to radio but HEY! he's been on Blue Peter and Strictly Come Dancing so he must be FAB on the radio.

Reality being is that he is 100% awful. Same with Gabby Logan and the times that Dermot O'Leary has been chucked a Radio 2 slot. In fact, the only decent tv presenter come radio presenter has been Zoe Ball.

Please - more time for Rachel Burden, Colin Murray, Phil Williams and less for the Jones, Bacon's and Kaye's of this world.

nb - Danny Kelly is utterly wasted on Talksport. Get him back on the BBC.

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Six Dog | 4 November 2009 - 10:28am

Zoe Ball?

I struggle to listen to her. As a website was once titled: "Dear Johnny Ball: Why, when you are so clever, is your daughter so stupid?"

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Lenny Law | 4 November 2009 - 1:01pm

Diff'rent strokes

Agree with most of that - Gethin Jones has to be THE most wooden, stilted radio "personality" I have ever heard.

Mumbles O'Leary is woefully ill-suited to radio, no-one seems to want to tell him he needs to project his voice even though the microphone is six inches away. He also adds insult to injury by pre-recording a big percentage of his shows because of his X Factor commitments.

Majorly disagree on Colin Murray - as annoying as his Northern Irish compatriot Nolan.

Gabby Logan is not bad, she come across as intelligent and she certainly knows her sport.

Bacon is OK on 5 Live but 6Music???

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cornishmanc | 4 November 2009 - 1:07pm

Afraid you're wrong about Colin Murray

He's capable of handling everything they throw at him.

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David Hepworth | 4 November 2009 - 1:09pm

Yep

Football, Music, Entertainment, News........he can do the lot and does it whilst engaging the listener. Always like listening to Murray. Conversely, when he presented Channel 5's UEFA Cup coverage last season, I thought he was a poor imitation of his radio style that just didn't work.

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Six Dog | 4 November 2009 - 1:15pm

I agree

I can't stand Dermot O'Leary on the radio. He knows nothing about music and his 'radio' voice is really annoying. He's not a DJ.

But I suppose the thinking now is that anyone can do it, seeing as it's merely pressing a few buttons these days, though of course personality and a background in music helps, and he hasn't got either of those things.

I wonder how much people actually like Vernon Kay. He's presented as one of those that kids and grannies love, but is he really?

Who next, Ben Shepherd?

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Five-Centres | 4 November 2009 - 10:59am

fc

I think your right about Vernon Kay he's the Dutch tomato of the entertainment world, bred so there's nothing to complain about but not with anything to praise. Can anyone remember anything memorial he's done? One suspects faced with Vernon even a ferret or even Emu would not bother attacking him.

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Chris G | 4 November 2009 - 11:07am

The Word curse

You have successfully dealt with Terry Wogan, Jo Whiley and now George Lamb simply by mentioning them. Therefore Moyles will be gone within a month.

Any chance you could do a feature on Sarah Kennedy?

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Mavis Diles | 4 November 2009 - 11:57am

Oh lawks, she is *painful* to listen to...

I caught a few minutes of one of her shows once and really felt in need of a sick bucket. It was horrible.

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Patrick Crowther | 4 November 2009 - 12:29pm

Sarah Kennedy

Good value if she's had a couple of snifters the previous evening...

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Six Dog | 4 November 2009 - 12:52pm

Double post.....

Oops

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Six Dog | 4 November 2009 - 1:14pm

It's not just music..

The BBC long ago decided that only former athletics stars could cover the sport for them, hence the employment of the truly bland Jonathan Edwards and the quite appalling Sally Gunnell - stock question to race winners: "How do you feel?"
I also have vague memories of BBC1's Football Focus doing an interview with the Arsenal chief executive, and who conducted this? None other than that trained journalist and/or (delete as appropriate) former Arsenal player Martin Keown. Phew, there were some tough questions to answer.
And then there's Ian Wright...
The BBC spends enough on training programmes; why don't they just use proper presenters rather than over-priced former names?

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honestman | 4 November 2009 - 12:32pm

You see I can't

stand listening to Moyles droning on and on and on in the morning. I want a brekfast show DJ that plays tunes first and fills in the gaps with short sharp bursts of banter. Not Banter first and fills in the gaps with the odd tune. If I want talk radio I'll find it elsewhere not on Radio 1. I say bring back Mike Read !!
P.S. Vernon Kay would be crap too.

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Dave Amitri | 4 November 2009 - 12:42pm

TV Killed The Radio Star

There was a glorious time when local radio was the training ground for national radio talent. Simon Mayo, Nicky Campbell, John Inverdale, Julian Worricker, Frank Partride, Jane Garvey, Eleanor Oldroyd, Sybil Ruscoe, Richard Evans, Janice Long - the list could go on.
Sadly, BBC local radio and commercial ILR is no longer the apprenticeship for national radio work.
It is also the same for sports broadcasting.
This all shows on air because the voices lack real life experience which informs presenting and reporting.
We now have to listen to "professional" celebrities whose lives are lived in London's medialand. To sports presenters who slip out of their spikes/football boots/cricket whites and into the commentary box.
British broadcasting is barren, ill-informed and superficial.

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Chinagraph | 4 November 2009 - 1:07pm

What about Danny Baker

I think that this is the first time in on the Word blogs that the BBC has announced some changes and the main voices of praise have come from 6Music listeners.

To reply to the original point though - there is always at least one exception and there would appear to be few Word bloggers that have taken exception to budding television presenter Danny Baker moving into radio.

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JohnW | 4 November 2009 - 1:15pm

The obvious choice for Moyles' replacement is....

....right under Radio 1's nose. Scott Mills understands the medium and the Radio 1 audience more than anyone else on the station, apart from Moyles himself. Vernon "I love the Pidgeon Detectives, me" Kay is just so drab, which is presumably why he got the job. I refer the Massive to my earler posts in the summer, when I expressed incredulity about him standing in for Pete Tong.

Hopefully Chris Evans will pull in even more listeners when he takes up the helm at Radio 2 next year. He's a very talented and unfairly maligned broadcaster, in my view.

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Dan E Steel | 4 November 2009 - 1:34pm

And he'll please Chinagraph.

Scott Mills worked on our local ILR station for some time in his youth.

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Lenny Law | 4 November 2009 - 1:52pm

I agree Mr Chinnery

Good call that. A radio person who understands Radio 1's audience, who'd have thunk it?

I have "form" with the BBC and used to work on local radio many moons ago. The problem is within the BBC itself; savage cuts in programme budgets have put producers under pressure to make more output for less money. Trying to maintain standards in that environment means that they don't try out as much new talent as before for fear of failure. Talented local broadcasters end up leaving the BBC because the organization just keeps them working in the same place. National and local radio dont talk much to each other these days, or if they do now, they didn't in my day.

Local Radio has some talented people (Vic Galloway at Radio Scotland springs to mind immediately, why he's not on 6music I dont know) who could do with national exposure. The fact that they don't is a crying shame.

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ganglesprocket | 4 November 2009 - 1:48pm

6Music Buffoons

Even though 6Music has been much-reviled for bringing in TV talent, that's where some of their best presenters are from. Craig Charles, Lauren Laverne, Adam and Joe. The worst people they have are the hospital radio escapees like Chris 'The Hawk' Hawkins (and his permanently exasperated producer Steph/Steb/Stev - can't make out what he's saying). Fortunately Iyare is off soon. Shaun Keavney isn't much good either.

In this case, the dividing line seems to be people who know about music and people who don't, rather than radio-born or tv-born talent.

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Mavis Diles | 4 November 2009 - 1:49pm

I do like Craig Charles

show and I'm no big funk fan but the show is just fun and has a sort of manic energy perfect for a saturday evening

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Chris G | 4 November 2009 - 2:03pm

BBC Local Radio

Further to ganglesprocket.....

BBC Local Radio is no longer a place for budding music presenters. the BBC Local Radio strategy is to target the over 50s with a diet of computer selected Jennifer Rush and ELO and predictable "inter-action" - IE "Phone or text now if your first car was a Vauxhall Viva." Twenty years ago, young presenters could programme their own shows - thus learning the craft of music radio.

Local radio is now also populated by older presenters - many of whom are national rejects looking to cruise to their retirement in local radio.

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Chinagraph | 4 November 2009 - 2:23pm

Completely correct there.

BBC London (where I live now) has some fine presenters (hello Mr Baker) and Radio Scotland, particularly in its specialist shows, can be excellent. Last time I visited Julie Fowlis was doing a folk music programme, which was pretty damn good.

As for the other locals, some good folk music programmes exist but less than there were.

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ganglesprocket | 4 November 2009 - 3:10pm

bbc 5 live

is becoming a joke

richard bacon-how the fuck did that happen?

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junkiecosmonaut | 4 November 2009 - 2:21pm

Because...

He's actually very good. Bacon is a rare example of a TV person who's actually better suited to radio. I never expected it to happen when he started, but he's a natural, and a good deal better than the dim and charmless Phil Williams, who's made the weekend breakast programme so missable.

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Kit Hogue | 4 November 2009 - 11:05pm

The thick of it

actually made me want to listen to his show.

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paulwright | 21 January 2010 - 4:01pm

I quite like Zoe

But I heard her on Radio Six the other day and she was reading out lists of things to do at the weekend, like, 'There's a Tudor exhibition at Hampton Court', that kind of stuff. It was a bit on the dull side. Actually it was a lot on the dull side.

It was Saturday morning, and it reminded me that years ago, at a similar time on a Saturday morning, Noel Edmonds did this feature where he got listeners to cover the radio in clingfilm and put breadcrumbs on it, then got the breadcrumbs to agitate in different ways by playing different sorts of music. Now obviously Noel Edmonds is not exactly a name to drop in any pop-culture conversation, but that feature, it was good radio; it made you want to keep on listening and it got listeners phoning in. Chris Evans and Danny Baker are two that can also do this kind of stuff at the drop of a hat, Adam & Joe, too.

So I think all this post-Sachsgate nonsense is a smokescreen. I don't think I'm ever going to yearn for the good old days when presenters could swear and insult actors -- Evans is so much better when he's reined in, for a start -- but I do appreciate creative radio when I hear it.

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Albert Edward | 4 November 2009 - 3:34pm
badger_king | 4 November 2009 - 3:34pm

grumps

Speaking of ..Peter Allan on Radio Five is grumpy,grumpy oldl man..but an excellent interviewer and a perfect foil for his younger co-presenters..Grumpy is good!

I also think Simon Mayo is fab but he is being switched next year which is a shame.

Radcliffe and Maconie are great. Does anyone know how their music choices are selected and by whom..I can't believe they choose that horrible Paulo Nutini single (they are constatntly taking the piss out of it) yet other selections are obviously their own? Surely this show should select all its music like Peel and Walters used to? It has surely built its own like minded music followers..so why a mixed playlist of theirs and the "corporate" selections.

and yes, I too cant stand TV or any other "showbiz" characters invading radio space..although Dylan's radio theme hour is very good and Little Stevie's"Underground Garage"... both these would seem to provide a solid argument that sometimes it works!

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Bingham | 4 November 2009 - 4:34pm

How excellent

to note from these comments that the medium of radio is still so important to so many. I have been an almost exclusively radio listener for about a year now since my telly when phut during an Andy Murray serve. I decided to do without TV for the next year. I can't really say I have missed it so much and I have still been able to check out the odd show on iplayer. It has been like when you go on holiday for a few weeks and just don't watch, or miss, the telly. Not sure if I will ever get another TV now. I am interested in getting a good portable DVD player though so I can watch my fave stuff when I want - any suggestions out there?

Anyone considered Vernon Kay in 50 years giving out with cosy catch phrases like 'nice to see you...'. This will happen I fear.

Radio is mostly good.

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The Californian | 4 November 2009 - 4:27pm

I'm not inclined to judge

I'm not inclined to judge radio bosses too harshly for bringing in TV stars to host shows, because people seem to like them, and sometimes it works - there are plenty of presenters who manage a dual role as a radio and television personality, look at Terry Wogan (I know he started out on radio, but he's enjoyed equal success in both media).

Obviously, it's more of a draw for audiences to have a name they know on their radio, than some very talented presenter whom nobody's ever heard of. I agree that it's a shame to see really good DJs who understand the medium being elbowed out, but equally, it's a bit harsh on the TV folk being dismissed out of hand.

Mind you, I don't know why I'm worrying about Radio 1, I don't listen to it - I *like* music... ; )

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Andrew F | 4 November 2009 - 5:29pm

Re: Wogan enjoying equal success in both media

I was thinking about this the other day and it struck me that the TV work Wogan is most fondly remembered for is Eurovision, where he was basically a disembodied voice.

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David Hepworth | 4 November 2009 - 5:39pm

The Radio Talent Pool

Is getting very shallow indeed.
I used to get a shoebox full of cassettes a week from the hapless, the hopeless and the helpless.
Now it's the odd MP3 from people with talent who've been 'let go'.

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Freddie Owen | 4 November 2009 - 8:58pm

got reply from BBC Complaints, re too many TV presenters on R2

"Thanks for your recent e-mail.

I understand you feel the standard of presentation on BBC Radio 2 has dropped recently, as you feel the range of presenters are often established television personalities, rather than professional radio DJ's.

I'm sorry you're unhappy with the element of our output, however the range of tastes and opinions held by our audience is so diverse that it's inevitable some listeners will dislike or disapprove of certain presenters. It's a very rare TV or radio personality who meets with everyone's approval, and it's clear that opinions on individual presenters can vary considerably.

Programme contributors are appointed on the basis of their experience and talent, but judgements are often subjective and we would never expect everyone to agree with every choice we make.

We do pro-actively research viewer opinions about our presentation teams as well as monitoring complaints. If we receive only negative reaction and feedback then we would certainly look to address this.

I do appreciate your feedback regarding this issue and I'm sorry if you felt we haven't met your expectations in recent weeks. To this end I'd like to assure you that I've registered your comments on our audience log. This is a daily internal report of audience feedback which we circulate to all channel controllers and presentation teams within the BBC, ensuring that your points and all other comments we receive, are circulated and considered across all departments.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us."

If anyone else feels the same, please do contact http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/homepage/ - save our radio!!

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lisbon | 19 January 2010 - 11:31am

It feels like the same illogic

that decrees only "personalities" can present TV documentaries about nuclear physics or Byzantine history. Apparently, 14 months on Emmerdale or whatever makes you a better presenter than an actual physicist or a historian.

And the real problem is that it's self-perpetuating. All the while the big gigs go to personalities, the truly dedicated radio presenters will be hidden away, largely unheard on Radio Smalltown while "Radio 1 bosses" continue to bemoan the lack of alternatives and the need to turn to a celebrity.

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Mark JF | 19 January 2010 - 12:53pm

So use their site to complain!

As they said, "If we receive ... negative reaction and feedback then we would certainly look to address this."

If you don't, it'll only get worse, and we'll be ineffectually whingeing on here ever after! :)

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lisbon | 19 January 2010 - 3:45pm

As Gil Scott-Heron almost said...

The radio will be televised

;P

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Remote Control | 21 January 2010 - 4:34pm
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