Entertainment For Lively Minds
What has Jools done....
Posted by Iainso on 5 May 2009 - 1:14pm.
....to deserve the ire of the massive?
I've seen quite a few posts (most recently on the Sonic Youth discussion) commenting on how irksome he is, or how detestable he is.
I just don't see it. He gives plenty of bands a chance to do what they want, and he is one of the few people showcasing live music on the telly. The mix of artists is fantastic, and while he is no David Frost, I find his interviewing style quite refreshing, in a "he doesn't really care what he asks" way.
Leave him alone, please.
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I think he'd be the first to point out...
....that he doesn't produce the programme or book the acts.
You're right ...
... Jools doesn't make the programme, but I'd say that Mark Cooper and Alison Howe and the other producers do fashion it to an extent around the sort of musicians Jools would like to have next to him on a piano stool - the sort that can play a bit, the sort who've been around the block, the sort that he just quite likes. I get the feeling he really enjoys being exposed to the newer, hipper stuff - I don't know for sure, but I get a feeling that he does, and this is part of his uniquely rounded, genuine TV personality (which is basically his own personality). I have no problem with him either. If he ever was a front man dropped into a format, he's now inextricably intertwined with it, in a way that most presenters aren't. He can't interview to save his life. But we forgive him, because without him, there is no show.
"Can't interview to save his
"Can't interview to save his life". You can say that again. From his interview with Depeche Mode this week:
“So that was, I mean that was, urm I mean so the thing is that's 1981 urm, I mean how have you, what's the, what's the trick to staying successful for so long do you think?”
Articulate and penetrating stuff.
"Were the eighties a time?"
"Were the Eighties a time?" asked Jools. "Yes, they were a time," replied Martin.
He does
a great job,but it seems to be fashionable to slag him off for some reason.Any show surviving as long as it has must be doing something right.
Despite the first two postings...
which smack a little of "music industry insiders leaping to colleague's defence" I would also like to defend Jools. This is despite the fact that I now find Later an incredibly tired format and his big band records are only occasionally better than average.
But...he always comes over as passionate about music (up there with Peel, Maconie etc), he does seem to have the respect of fellow musicians and his piano playing has graced many a fine record. His championing of boogie woogie/big band music was (and perhaps remains) deeply unfashionable but essential for rekindling interest in a great style of music (although I'd recommend going back to the original artists rather than Jools himself). Finally, he was an integral part of Squeeze...
"music industry insiders leaping to colleague's defence"
I have only ever met Jools Holland in passing. I have attended one Hootenanny as a guest of Blur. I certainly don't regard him as a colleague. My defence was based wholly on being "a viewer of Later With Jools Holland."
Keep it going, Jools...
... but can the annual Tom Jones appearances, please?
There are better presenters out there, yes - but Jools does it well, and I'd rather it's someone who knows their musical onions than any yoof presenter who's skinny & has fancy hair.
I'm not sure how much clout his name has in musical circles (Messrs. Hepworth & Ellen will know more) and how tempting it is for these bands to appear on his show.
I see him as a necessary evil
Maybe 'evil' is too harsh a word, but he's really not very good at what he does in my opinion. Sure he's a nice bloke and all and nothing against him, but the interview sections on Later... often make me wince.
Still, as previously pointed out, Later... is pretty much the only terrestial program that showcases music in the way it does and the world's a better place for it. Later... and Jools come as a package; I'd much rather have both than neither.
I can't stand the honky-tonking
I don't mind him as a person. But he ruins everything with that awful tinny piano playing.
Yes...
...what he said.
My view
= what Joe R plus Five-Centres said. I find him to be something of an irritant I put up with in order to watch some good music.
Rather Him
Than Reggie, Fern, Moyles or any of those twunts who present for Freshly Squeezed on C4. Didn't Mark E Smith have it written into the contract that he couldn't play piano with them?
Didn't realise Mark E Smith played the piano...
... nor that he'd refuse to provide ivory tinkling duties for Reggie, Fern or Moyles (though any sane person would refuse to do that).
But why do they show old clips of guests?
Am I the only one who finds it abit embarrasing and pointless. They are never new clips last weeks was the same old footage of the 'mode on top of the pops. It just seems a bleak exercise in the ravages of time and oxidation of video tape. The response from the singer involved is never revealing but ever week out rolls the video monitor.
Also in the this day age why fly someone all the way from America to play one song why not make more available elsewhere.
Jools never did anything better than
his work with The Millionaires in the early 1980s
Although, he was one of the interviewers in the Hey Jude Hitmakers' Anthology documentary. One can only presume his questions were written for him and tightly scripted.
He doesn't play..
..honky-tonk piano, he plays R+B/ Jazz styled piano a-la Pete Johnson or Dr John, and he's very good at it.
Now Winnie Atwell, SHE was a honky-tonk pianist.
i'm not sure what genre/name
you'd ascribe to the bit he does on 'Good Thing' by Fine Young Cannibals.
I call it 'barn-storming' and for that reason alone, i can nearly forgive him anything.
I like him. He's got his weak-points, but enthusiasm is something hard to fake, and he seems to have it by the bucketload when he presents his show.
I don't care what you call it
it's still awful
y'think?
wow; more than people 'getting' or 'not getting' say Prog, Folk or The Smiths, I genuinely thought that nobody could hate that kind of playing.
Again i say it. Potayto/Potahto!
As a matter of interest, what is it about it that grates? I think the reason I like it so much is that as a piano player, I simply can't even begin to copy it. Perhaps this is jealousy masquerading as fandom.
But everyone says "potato"
and nobody likes boogie-woogie apart from it's seems when eating pringles and those wierd tiny scotch some say "savory" eggs while sat under a robert Dyas gazebo at one of the Uk's a lesser stately homes. None of which is a crime really but well most good music doesn't need a side order of M&S taste the difference salsa to help it go down.
i knew i should've said Tomayto/Tomato
I haven't the foggiest what point you're trying to make otherwise, but i suspect the use of the words 'nobody' and 'likes' would indicate the sort of broad brushstroke and generalisation we're not used to around here...
everybody says "tomato"
well anybody who's heard of jools Holland that is.
It's the way it dominates
every part of every song he's playing on, so it becomes less about the artist and more about Jools. It's noisy and vampy and all over the place. It's grating, it's shrill and I just don't care for it. He totally ruins the album version of Uncertain Smile.
You mean
this, Five-Centres?
I think this is fantastic - top song enhanced by a bit (well quite a lot actually) of "barnstorming" piano - from 3.25 for those who are interested, but the whole track's great.
The 7" version is my all-time favourite song
This I can do without.
Give or take Mac Rebennack.
And he should know, methinks. Forget the TV tinkering. He can play. Boogie Woogie I for one think is as inpired a use of the piano as you can get.
Also, open your ears to this:
http://open.spotify.com/track/2D4CW43Ewl0UZvrn9E2bo3
see that could be it, Retro...
don't have spotify in Oireland, but it's not Jools i particuarly like, it's the ruddy sound, as opposed to the music, he can get out of the old Joanna.
It's similar to some old geezer with a steel bottleneck thingy and an old out of tune guitar banging out a few bluesey chords...just a little classier when it's seven shades of sh*t being belted out of a Steinway grand...
Oh, come on...
...everybody likes broad-brushstroke generalisations.
arf...
7.5/10
No generalisation
is worth a damn.
I thought this week's show was great
'ver Mode - great, Raphaeel Saadiq - possibly behind the times but I thought this was great discovery, Sonic Youth - great (if only for Teenage Riot), Priscilla Ahn - I went and got the album , she was so *ahem* entertaining...and I really liked Lily Allen as well (even if she had been to mic on stand for verse, jig about freestyle for chorus-type school)
Overall, a really good episode. Some years ago, Grant lee Buffalo did a version of Fuzzy on Later that far outstripped the studio version, and it was amazing...
Yes, Jools can't interview, but hey, I can't play piano...or interview, to be fair, but still...
What do ya mean
you can't play piano? Will the real Oscar Peterson...
Raphaeel Saadiq'sd take on Marvin Gaye/Smoke Robinson was just damn slinky. As was Lilly Allen.
Jools's finest moment
5 mins 30 secs Jools unplugs Andy Summers. Seemed quite shocking at the time. Its de rigeur behaviour now of course but I can't recall any other telly presenters being quite so irreverent at the time.
Seemed quite shocking at the time. Its de rigeur behaviour now of course but I can't recall any other telly presenters being quite so irreverent back then.
But...
....he's talking to him about music instead of his bloody myspace page and his girlfriend. all is forgiven
That's about 6 minutes of
That's about 6 minutes of chat just about his bloody effects pedals however. You'd never see that today, thank God.
But why not?
If there was room on TV for a discussion about Andy Summers' effects pedals 20 years ago when there were 4 channels, why on earth can't they find room for that sort of thing today on one of the 10,000 channels available to us?
I don't like Later much, I loathe Hootenanny
and his records aren't much cop either, but he is one of the best live performers I have seen, or, at least, the R'n'B Orchestra are. He actually is a top notch piano player; clearly he has a genuine love for the music. Plus, there are at least 15 assorted players, all far too good to be add-ons in the world of once was and who they, or merely as anonymous session-men, only too grateful to have him support a band of that size. He has some of the cream of british and afro-caribbean brass players, all of whom get ample opportunity to bedazzle, no lime-lighting purely by Holland here. I have seen him twice in only a few months, initially going to the NIA a little reluctantly, my views overturned in minutes, with a 2nd helping in the intimacy of the Jam House in Brum.
(Blimey, must take a lie-down, my cred is taking a beating today, as this is penned, fresh from supporting Mick Hucknall on another strand.... Next, M People and the Lighthouse family???? Be worried, be very worried!)
He's great!
I've been watching Later.. for years and I've always liked him. I have no problem at all with what is described as his "interview technique", given that it's not really an interview, he just has a bit of a chat with a couple of his guests. It often feels informal and I like that.
If I ever played on there (note: not likely to happen) then I would definatly want him on piano.
This is all very well but surely his very WORST crime...
...is perpetually having his talentless showbiz pal Rowland Rivron on his shows peddling his abjectly risible and utterly pathetic line in oo-er missus innuendo and cack-handed pseudo-surrealism. It's those moments of smug, unfunny, in-jokey interaction between Jools and RivWrong that show both up to be the kind self-congratulatory gits you'd swiftly move away from at a party.
When the history of broadcasting in the late 20th-21st century is written (or podcasted, or beamed by telepathy or however it will be disseminated in far-flung time) the greatest mystery of all, our descendents will be thinking, was how on earth such an utterly talentless cretin like Rivron just kept getting series after series of unfunny Radio 2 shows commissioned, how he got on radio or TV at all and why Jools found him fun to be around.
It's the appearance of the world's unfunniest man -
Lenny Henry - each year that really gets my goat.
I'll 2nd that - re: Lenny Henry
And if proof were needed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0092bz1
Terminally unfunny.
I believe it's known as...
... "the ugly friend" trick.
Personally...
I like him.
Who? Rivron....?!?
Surely not....?
The 'ugly friend' thing begins to make sense, but only if we assume that Rivron inhabits that same role for every commissioning editor who's ever inflicted his torrent of crapitude on the license-fee paying masses.... There can be no other explanation for his presence on the airwaves...
either that...
or he knows where a LOT of bodies are buried...
Family
Surely Roland Rivron is his brother? One should catch up with family over Christmas, I suppose, hence the hootenanny appearances.
I like Later, more or less, and the bits I don't like I can forward (good old Freeview harddrive). Nowhere else on TV I can see Oumou Sangere, Grandmaster Flash and Cat Stevens play live is there?
I like him
Being out of the country, I haven't had over exposure to Later so I do enjoy it when I do see. Also agree that he is fantastic live - saw him here in Singapore last year with the R&B orchestra and it was a thoroughly concert and he can really play. I have a dim distant memory of seeing him as the host of an Edinburgh festival "Best Of" show (must have been back in the late 80s) - remember him doing various classical pieces (Beethoven etc) as Boogie Woogie numbers - he was good.
And he did the piano on FYC "Good Thing" - what more do you want ?
re the FYC
referred to, above, as both 'Barnstorming' and 'awful' within minutes...
we're a terribly broad church here!
Jools finest moment has nothing to do
with Later.It was Live Aid, offering to pledge donations if Paula Yates would give him a blow job. I am sure some will find this infantile - me i thought it was hilarious mainly because it was live TV and they couldnt edit it.
Jools may have a stilted interview technique but as others have said its the only programme of its type around at present. He also gets the thumbs up in my book for his piano on Squeeze's Slaughtered, gutted and heartbroken.
I thought
His book (it was a present) was a bit heavy on the name dropping but I still can't see why he attracts so much ire. We're not exactly, even given the plethora of TV channels, over blessed with proper musicians doing it live (as opposed to miming in videos) on TV. Why knock a programme that not only has that but occasionally has different performers interacting with each other (and I'd like to see more of this)?
Jools maybe can't interview and I often wish they'd cut this section and just put in more music but I'm not the only viewer and I guess others like it. And there is no doubting that he's a formidable and enthusiastic musician. Why knock that? We might get Moyles or George Young instead.
And to name-drop myself, Jools used to go to the same youth club as me and, later, the same pub - but we didn't interact.
Agree about Rivron though.
Whether it's the producer
or him that chooses the acts, they cover a wide spectrum, he introduces them with enthusiasm, they play live music (mostly), he plays with them sympathetically and he holds the whole thing together in a rather endearingly shambolic way. Agreed, we could do without the embarrassingly unfunny Lenny and Rowland, although Al Murray was good on this years Hootenany. ("Hootenany!"). I've no doubt that in a parallel universe there'd be a queue of people slagging him off for being too slick, for not being a muso himself and for showing off by asking tough questions of rather boring and inarticulate musicians. I'm happy with the Jools we've got in this universe.
"I'm happy with the Jools we've got in this universe"
...yes, but can't we send Rivron to another one? Shove him into the Large Hadron Collider at CERN and send him hurtling into a black hole in search of Higgs' Boson. I'm sure he could find a crappy sub-innuendo to squeeze out of all that (as his atoms are being smashed at light speed into a welcoming vortex of nothingness).
Ahhhh. I feel better just thinking about it.
Rivron
Whilst I generally agree with the comments about Roland Rivron, he was responsible for this sketch, which I still find superb.....
Mr Holland
Last night on the television with Booker T......Jones. Played some lovely unobtrusive piano alongside Booker T's Leslie twisting, funkier than a mosquito's tweeter Green Onions.
Grizzly Bear - absolutely wonderful.
Taylor Swift - why is this sub Dawson's Creek anodyne shite on my television?
I quite used to like Jools
I even spent my own hard owned on going to some of his gigs. Then one day, as a token non sales person at Allied Dunbar's annual sales conference at the Wembley Conference Center, I returned to my seat after lunch hoping to catch a few zzz's before the closing prize giving and back slapping. But up goes the curtain and and the whole band plus Ruby Turner and Sam Brown start to strut their stuff.
If it's one thing sales guys know how to do, it's "have a good time". So rugs were cut, people got down, and many did their thing. It was dad dancing on an unimaginable scale. I'd seen nothing like it ever before, and thankfully never again since. The trouble is ever since, as soon as I see him, I'm back in the conference center, with nowhere to hide.
I suppose I should be grateful for small mercies .... I didn't have to go the next year .... and it was Quo...
Well.
I'm going to say: I like Jools. I've always enjoyed Later, and quite like a 'hootenany'. I was a huge fan of him and Paula on The Tube. I even like Rowland Rivron (anybody remember the first all night TV in London back in the late 80s, Night Network?). And most of all I love Jools' playing on Uncertain Smile, ranking it as one of my favourite instrumental passages anywhere.
I don't think I will like kebab flavoured Pot Noodles however.
Of course
what you could do to appease those people who don't like him is to remove him, the audience and Rowland Rivron and just have the bands. Maybe get in that Ellen and Hepworth. What are they doing these days?
Revive the Whistle Test!!!
That gets my vote too
Then we might actually get a real rock band or two on there
Ditto...
...and I do seem to recall this 'Night Network' mentioned above - or at least some kind of late 80s late night awfulness involving Rivron. Spike Milligan was on being interviewed by the Talentless Oik one time and in the middle of it he (Spike) said, tellingly, 'Why am I here?' Even inspired madmen realise that they have a limit and that limit is winding up as a stooge to a useless, cretinous waste of space like Rivron. I recall thinking at that time, 'Jeez, is this what it's come to Spike? After years of comedy genius you've ended up as foil to a genuine goon - who isn't in any way funny or entertaining?' I imagine his desperate comment on air meant that he too realised that very thing...
. . . and now, the unknown artist who souunds a lot like Duffy .
Whether or not it's Jools' fault, Later has turned into a depressingly formulaic show guaranteed to exclude any artist who's bent on following their own muse come what may. A typical show will bring you some permutation of a much-revered veteran act from way back for Jools to fawn over and accompany, some feisty young guitar bands, a roots act (folk, reggae, blues) and some completely unknown artist who sounds remarkably like Duffy or James Blunt. There's a helluva lot of exciting young talent out there who will never get a shot at Later (and thus never get a shot at British TV) because they don't tick any of the right boxes. The prosecution rests.
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Works for me
Well, yes, Chris Evans (not the.... never mind) has a point, the show has got a bit formulaic BUT it's still the best live music show on TV, admittedly mostly for those of us of a Certain Age. Having a truly live bit followed up later in the week with a longer show was a great idea. And yer man Jools always comes across as the sort of bloke you might happily spend an hour or two with in the pub, and does know a lot more about music over a wide span than your average scrawny youth or toothsome Indygal that might otherwise present a show like it. And his book was a lot better than most written by a muso too.
Last time I watched a similar type of show on more than the odd occasion may well have been when good ol' Mark Radcliffe was at it with the White Room, remember that?
Surely we can all agree on one thing...
Whether you like him as a presenter - or not - and whether you like him as a pianist - or not - surely NO-ONE can endure Jools singing? Thankfully I've not seen him do it on 'Later...', but he does sing on his records. Of which I own none, for that very reason.
Actually.....
I agree he used to be dire, especially on the obligatory Jools track on early Squeeze LPs. I suspect the same vocal coach as taught Chris Difford some extension to his previously tiny, now merely narrow, range, has been involved. He has a passable white bluesman rattle, a bit like EC slightly before Derek, when he was, for a while, absolutely fabulous, and obviously before MORdom set in.
I wouldn't mind his CV...
A National Treasure, that's wot Jools is.