but yes it seems to have moved away from gigs (and football grounds)possibly because both are so much more organised than they were & expensive & seated & have older audiences?

My personal moment of sheer dread was watching the Jam in 1979. I was dressed as a mod and there was a tidal wave of skinheads working through the crowd smacking all mods. Being a natural born coward I locked my self in a cubicle of the loo till it was all over. I escaped the worst. Just received a couple of cuffs on the way back to the coach.

Is this still an extant genre? Anyway, just a couple of years back it seems there were plenty of random acts of violence - with guns! - at such gigs, and very possibly still are at whatever the more up-to-date successor might be.

was at the Ashton Court Festival near Bristol, during the early eighties, when plod was all plumped up, having got loads of overtime fighting miners, and was keen to crack skulls on any available weekend.

The Ashton Court Festival was officially a daytime-only affair, with the site cleared of punters overnight between the Saturday and the Sunday. This was back in the days before the identikit grub stalls showed up at every gathering remotely like a festival, so a few of us less savoury types were parked up in environmentally disastrous vans, piled high with Coke (No. The fizzy pop) and crisps from the cash 'n' carry, making a few bob on the side, and sleeping in the back.

Around 3 am I woke from a deep slumber that may have been herbally assisted, to find myself bloody freezing. The back of a transit van is not thermally insulated, and even a night in late summer can get a tad chilly. So I strolled off back to the flat, only a 20 minute shuffle away. It was a lucky move.

Sometime later, the site was overrun with baton waving hooligans, heads were cracked, tents were torn down, belongings were trashed, and a throng of bleary herberts were invited to spend the rest of the night in more robust accomodation.

it just happens at the strangest gigs though:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2007/04/25/show-aband...

Buzzcocks supported by Penetration and the Gang of Four at St George's Hall in Bradford, 1977. Fabulous support acts, good crowd apart from one idiotic fat skinhead and his lanky mate. Fathead was trying to get some aggro going throughout the gig, pointing and chanting at the crowd from various balconies.

Between Penetration and the Buzzcocks he was seen pushing his way out of the stalls, bleeding from a neck wound. He must have gone crying to someone 'cos the PA was pulled early in the main set. The Buzzcocks carried on semi-acoustically, the audience singing along, then 'Entertained' badges were chucked out into the crowd. The set was curtailed, but it didn't matter, we all left feeling like we *were* the Buzzcocks.

One of the best gigs I ever went to, didn't tell my mum too much about it though.

My early gig going was mostly in London in the mid 80s. While there was the occasional fight, both in the venue and out, mostly they were pretty decent nights. Gig attendence at smaller venues started to go down in the mid to late 80s and so the majority of people were proper fans there to see the band.

But a lot of the venues employed some animals as security. You quite often saw them wade in to deliver a hiding to some skinny spotty youth who'd climbed onto the stage.

One night - and I can tell you the exact date cos the next day was my birthday - Feb 13th 1986, I was at Dingwalls to see The Prisoners playing. It was a great gig, but there was some tension. Some of the guys down the front were climbing on stage to dance with the band, a couple of them were moshing, and the security guys who all looked like steroid cases were giving them some grief. One particularly drunk fan of the band went a bit mad during one song and was spinning around arms flailing. The security guys jumped on him. He was a small skinny guy and they were all about six foot four with no necks! They pulled him to one side and said that he'd had enough warning. They started kicking and punching him.

At that The Prisoners, hard sods that they were, downed their instruments in the middle of the song and jumped off the stage onto the security guys. It was like something from a Western for the next five minutes until they were pulled apart. The house lights came up and that was it, gig over.

No, I don't miss those days!

I was gobbed outside a Stranglers gig in 1977.
Kicked about and robbed by skinheads at a 999/Spiz gig.
Chased all over Sheffield Top Rank by more skins after a Banshees gig and lamentably very nearly lumped at a Feeling gig (I went with my missus, honest) after some womans hair wrapped around my jacket button by the bar. Her meathead boyfriend went for me big time. The only time I've been thankful to see a bouncer.
The shame of it, getting chinned at a Feeling gig and me nearly in the foothills of middle age.

I was at the Redsins gig at County Hall in about 1984 (I think) when the NF skins stormed the stage and had a go at X Moore. They hadn't bargained for the leftie-skins and the legion of miners (invited by Ken Livingstone) who saw them off with more than a flea in their ear. As an 18 year old this was all rather exciting (and very scary) to watch.

I was also witness the bass player from Gay Bikers On Acid jump off the stage at a gig at The Pink Toothbrush in Rayleigh Essex and knock some to the floor with one punch after a full beer can had hit him on the head. This was mid song and he returned to the stage picked up his bass and continued playing as if nothing had happened. Now that is classy.

Brixton Academy 1989 - Bizarrely

Full scale war between, apparently, rival gangs - Dead vicious

I remain, perplexed.

as a youth. They attracted some strange sorts - mainly ex punks from New Cross I think.

1980/81 Guildford Civic Hall. Skinheads v Punks. Thrown bottle hits drummer. Band stop playing. Grim days but somehow adding to the event.

There have already been too many words on Moz at Madstock but I have to say I didn't witness any of the aggro/tension that has been suggested. IMHO Madness slid under the radar on this debate - from what I could tell the skinheads weren't there for Morrissey they were there for Madness.

The Damned played the Royal Derngate Centre in Northampton in mid-1985. It's the kind of venue more used to Christmas Pantomime and performances by The Spinners (the only other 'rock' band I can remember playing while I lived in the city were The Enid), and the management were obviously unprepared for the punks who spent the first few numbers tossing rats about and ripping up the seats. The curtain came down.

The local Chronicle & Echo newspaper reported "Angry fans stormed the stage claiming the management of the Northgate Arena had deliberately cut the concert short. Steel fire curtains were damaged and nearly 30 chairs ripped up and destroyed. Police, some with dogs, moved in quickly to stop the trouble that was started by a group of about 40 punks."

I don't remember the police or the dogs, funnily enough. The thing I remember was one particular punk repeatedly head-butting the safety curtain, each time taking a lengthy run-up before, to enormous cheers, planting his forehead into the steel surface with a dull thud.

An honest-to-goodness ruck broke out at an Undertones gig I attended earlier this year. The last I saw, some miscreant was legging it through the moshpit as a couple rained blows on him.

On a previous thread, I recounted getting a kicking on my 16th birthday at an Exploited gig - you could say that was karma for watching said punk panto. But I made up for it by breaking up a particularly vicious scrap at a concert by, of all people, indie milquetoasts The Chesterfields.

"milquetoasts"
When did you last see that word?

Long time residents will remember this pub in Brighton.Many a Punk ,Psychobilly gig held there.More violence than i care to mention.Thought the worst was a "Pink Floyd " covers band whose gig was interrupted by 250 Leeds United fans who teargassed the pub.Thanks to a group of Rockabillys in the bar who basically saved everyone by beating the Crap out of the first ten Leeds fans through the door.
Generally the Punk gigs passed without incident but when The Levellers palyed we always had loads of problems with "People" trying to get in with their Dogs or Own Booze.
And was once working at a gig with Pathetic punks THE MACC LADS who tried to take on a group of Blokes playing pool.It wasn't pretty.Punks 0 Pool Team 10

A couple of weekends ago, a guitar player friend who I have known for years told me that the first band he ever saw was P.I.L. at Scarborough Futurist. He said, as a first gig appearance, it was one of the most frightening nights of his life. Tension filled the venue before a note was played and fights broke out the minute proceedings began. Everyone was waiting for a Sex Pistols song, no one really understood what P.I.L were about at the time, but my friend informed me that although he didn't get his head kicked in, the violence made the gig a memorable one and a lasting impression for years to come. His younger brother was vexed that he was too young too attend, even although he sported a skin head and mature looking moustache at the age of sixteen.

ah the nostalgia. the most recent gig I went to was the Mary Chain at the Roundhouse, and as we were all jumping around (it's all hit and run moshing now we are getting on a bit) some twat up against the railing at the front looked over his shoulder (so it was deliberate) and elbowed me tidily in the side of the head. Alan Shearer couldn't have done it better.
There was no full-on JAMC rioting though, just unnecessary behaviour and me with a random post-gig drinking injury like the old days.

I remember the first time The Stranglers came to Australia in early 1979, something snapped in every young bronzed Aussie who went to see the shows and the band responded accordingly. They could make a movie on this one tour alone ! Banned from TV pop shows, arrested by police, politicians up in arms and fans bleeding profusely from a well placed JJ Burnel Doc Martin boot!!Marvelous stuff! Oh yeah, the gigs were good too!

I'd just got into the venue and was standing at the bar waiting to buy a drink. I saw someone coming towards me covered in blood. I looked at him briefly, he punched me in the face. I thought to myself "Nice meeting you too" and ordered my pint of Guiness.

Well it did used to make for a slightly more edgy evening didn't it. Memorable occasions:

- The sport of the crowd / bouncer brawls at a Ruts gig in Dollis Hill Park (1978 probably) which never happened as it was cancelled once the crowd had assembled. Bouncers were bouncers in those days, so big they wouldn't even notice they'd been stabbed until the next morning.

- The threatening tension at a Fela Kuti gig at Brixton Academy (1988 most likely), large circles continually pushing open throughout the crowd as people tried to flee the constant fighting. There was near violence on stage too between Fela's posse and the awkward white promoter who introduced them. Then the bouncers brought the alsations out.

- Getting punched up after a Clash gig at the Electric Ballroom (1980 give or take) for not being a real punk (guilty as charged but so what, although it didn't turn out to be prudent to say this).

- And of course one used to get attacked sometimes for just walking down the road and transgressing some unwritten 'you're not a skinhead / punk / mod' law.

- The Sex Pistols gig at Brixton Academy last year was nostalgic not just for being a glorious cabaret but also because I got into a fight - well, high octane jostling anyway - with some people who parked in front of us. My son, who was with me, was both ashamed and amused. Oddly enough the most aggressive bloke found me and apologised after the gig. They never did THAT in the old days.

that at most of the gigs I went to in the early '80s there would be a fight. If it was a band like Depeche Mode or Simple Minds the local scumbags would be outside after the gig waiting to beat us up for liking "faggot" bands! (Their choice of music was always, without fail, the same 3 bands; ACDC, Status Quo and Madness!). There was always violence at gigs by a band called The Blades (The Irish version of The Jam!), mostly because the audience was full of skinheads (Alas, my parents only allowed me a crewcut!!). The worrying thing is that all of this violence seemed so normal at the time!

was Primal Scream at Glasgow Barrowlands in 1998 supported by Jesus & Mary Chain. It was just a special night. However, incidentally, I remember half way through the Scream's set a couple in the middle of the crowd got into an argument and the ape-like boyfriend appeared to lay hands on the girlfriend. At which point at least a dozen of their fellow audience members decided to even the score of this unfortunate domestic and gave the foolish chap what can only be described as a leathering. It was rough justice but it only added to the solidarity of the crowd - it felt like the group of vigilantes had done the right thing. Those who witnessed it had definitely willed them on and then it was back to the band. Sadly the put upon girlfriend followed the oaf as he meekly slithered away.
I should probably feel ashamed about allowing myself to be swept along with the baser instincts of a crowd but I don't. Glad he got a kicking. Tit.

Took a new girlfriend to see them, this must have been around 1988. Show lasted, I think, a maximum of 25 minutes before fists were deployed down the front.
Barney and co couldn't be tempted back on.

... and do we miss that as well?

There's a certain stripe of rock critic who has always enjoyed living vicariously through rock and roll's more wayward edge. Rock violence is a kind of porn in that respect. And without getting too Daily Mail about it, I think this attitude in the media probably has contributed in some small way to the mess we're in. Maybe if we didn't find the idea of "pompous, self-righteous" Chris Martin campaigning for Fair Trade more worthy of scorn and mockery than Liam Gallagher kicking someone in the head or Fiddy popping a cap in some mo'fo's ass, kids might grow up with a better idea of, you know, right and wrong. Because the idea of encouraging anti-social behaviour is all very well if you're a music journo living in Hampstead or Oxford, less fun if you're getting knifed in the stairwells of Hackney.
Oops, gotta go - the Colonel's just popped round for a dry sherry...

I once got headbutted by a pissed up guy at an 'M People' gig in Leeds back in the middle 90's... A FECKIN 'M PEOPLE' GIG FER-CHRIST-SAKES!! Didnt realise that band courted such violent crowds!

I got caught in a full scale riot at Slane Castle in 1984, cops and thugs fought a pitched battle through the streets of the village the day before the gig, tear gas, batons, shields, bricks and flying bottles. A kindly, but terrified neighbour let us escape the mayhem through her back garden. The next day, Bob was not amused.

makes all the grumbling about people talking in gigs 'nowadays' dseem a bit silly, doesn't it?

They're in the charts, the tour is sponsored by The Sun (they're all wearing "I'm A Sun Lover" T-shirts) so are getting ridiculous amounts of publicity, and they play the evening that there has been a Coventry/Leicester local derby, so all the football fans decide to continue their big day at the gig... absolute carnage ensues, fights everywhere in the hall, the singer gets bottled (and is on the front page of The Sun the next day), basically a minor riot...

Generically, there's less violence now because there isn't the "tribal" aspect of music anymore (everyone likes everything, everyone dresses the same), and gigs are relatively a lot more expensive (back in the day non-fans would turn up for a laugh as it would only cost a few quid...) I think the exception (as mentioned elsewhere) is hip-hop and its variants, though I'm sure there are still plenty of punk pub gigs which still get a bit hairy...

the singer get bottled over a crass racist 'joke' he made?