Entertainment For Lively Minds
Unusual or "affected" pronounciation of names. Does it annoy you?
Posted by Uncle Wheaty on 26 October 2011 - 7:22pm.
I was just reading the thread on musical tastes from a few days ago and read the post that stated Gillian Welch pronounces her name with a hard G.
One respondent found this annoying. I share that sentiment but don't know why.
I used to work with someone who was called Karen but pronounced it as "car-en".
That was also annoying.
It is a stupid prejudice to have I know but I wondered if others here share it.
Blame the parents I guess!
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That's Eleanor. Pronounced EleanORRR.
[harrumphs]
Weirdly...
...a lot of people have started assuming that Mrs Bob, who's an Eleanor, pronounces it Eleanorrrrrrr. I don't know why at all. She pronounces it Elunnuh, like a normal person would. Where did this Eleanorrrrr bumwash suddenly come from?
(No offence to anyone who is, knows, likes or loves an Eleanorrrr. But they're WRONG! WRONG!)
Lindisfarne were pronouncing it 'Eleanorrrrrrr' 35 years ago
But the HJHs were saying "Elennuh" before then :-)
GOD DAMN YOU, FOLK ROCK!
I bloody knew it.
Sorry Bob
but somebody had to....
Blackadder "Bob"
Oh god.
You haven't got one of those belly buttons that sticks out, have you? Or a tattoo that says "Get it here"?
Deathless stuff. Cheers Dave!
I had an Aunt Eleanor...
.....for many years...at least I thought so.
At her funeral(RIP) a few years ago, I was reading the cards and they were all written for Helena. Later on I asked my dad(her wee brother) if Helena was her real name and Eleanor was her nickname. He looked at me as if I had horns coming out my head. Said in a certain way, both sound exactly the same.
I would guess it's mostly down to how
your Mum & Dad pronounced it, isn't it? If Gillian wasn't a Jill when she was a little girl, that's going to stick with her.
Surely it's polite to pronounce someone's name
as they wish it to be pronounced. I have two friends both called Sara - one prounces it Saaaah-ra and one Sar-ah. As far as I'm concerned, neither is 'wrong'.
I agree on the politeness point
I will pronounce the name as the person wants.
It is just unusual pronounciations that seem to grate with me. I am sure I will get over it!
My first serious gf was a Sara...
...pronounced Sarah by all, from birth. Her mum once, in my hearing, called her Sarrrra. The air turned a fetching indigo colour about a picosecond later, GF1 being of the dramatic persuasion. Hilarious.
Jemima
Kiss - pronounced Kish. Why?
Kiss is a Hungarian surname
and the Hungarian pronunciation is 'Kish'.
Didn't know that
Not being Hungarian and all. So why didn't they translate the Hungarian alphabet to be Kish then? Not that I care particularly one way or the other.
hang on,
I'll ask them.
The Hungarians are lovely
I was in Budapest this summer and learnt a very important word. Bazmek. Pronounced "Boshmeg" Basically seems to mean "Oh, FUCK!"
Also - "eggishegeda" is "Cheers!"
Also Iranian
Kiss Island is pronounced Kish Island.
Shuvaun - pronounced 'See-ob-han'
:-)
Niamh - pronounced "nim"
How naieve!
Row-sheen Murphy...
...sometimes may have been called "Roy-zin". Maybe...
Spooky - just noted the post below regarding pronounciation.
I hadn't read or seen that before posting.
Is The Massive morphing into a single being with shared thought processes?
Probably not based on the musical taste thread.
We are.
After all, we all seem to like exactly the same comedians.
....
And, I'm sorry, but it's pron*UN*ciation. There is no "ow" in the noun like there is in the verb. I don't know why.
I'm not normally this pedantic. But it so happens that mispronunciation of the word "pronunciation" is of my pet gripes.
You are of course correct
I pronounce pronunction as it is spelt.
Others may not.
To mis-type is human.
To mispronounce, satanic.
I say pronunction you say pronunciation!
Fancy a tomato?
How would you pronunct that?
:-)
Ad pronk dat werd termarter.
... with that song in mind, who the f### goes to a restaurant and asks for "ersters"?
It all puts me in mind of
Colin Powell.
It's Colin. Not Coalin.
And it's Powell, not Pole - I'm looking at you, mister Dance to the Music of Time.
And don't get me started on what Americans do to the name Ian.
Can't say I'd noticed
from the many occasions I've been in the company of our American friends. What do they do to "Ian"?
Eye Un.
I don't think it's a common name over there.
[For the record, in spite of the tone of this and my other posts, I *like* Americans. We probably - no, certainly - do terrible things to their names/placenames daily]
I see
For Americans who've never heard it, it usually goes that I say my name then spell it. There's a few of us over there but you're right, it isn't terribly commonplace in the US.
Bit different here, where I once briefly shared a work desk with two other Ians.
Surely, Norweg...
...they must have mis-pronunced your name.
Christ, moose, what's the problem?
It's pronounced how he wants you to pronounce it. I'm sure he'd show you that much respect at least.
I said it annoyed me.
I didn't say that annoyance was reasonable or rational or grown-up...
I am told by my American friend
that Colin is an up-market name amongst African-Americans, and it's pronounced Coalin.
Streets near where he lives are Verdi Ave and Versailles Ave, pronounced Ver-DIE and Ver-SALES respectively. Boy, did I get these wrong!
Names can have such radically different connotations
in different countries, like when you go to France and find young women called Agnes and Gladys.
In this country a "Colin" is a crumpled, downtrodden guy in middle-management who's probably quietly keen on prog rock.
Not...
...round my way, isn't.
I used to buy magazines from...
A John Menzies shop that was pronounced "men-zees" not "Ming is".
The bloke behind the counter was called Ralph which he pronouncd as "ralf" not "rayf".
I prefereed that world I guess!
And yet my local John Menzies was always pronounced
'Ming-izz'
In Scotland I assume?
Generational
My generation said Men-zees, my dad's said ming-us.
Ming-us!
As in Menzies Menzies Menzies Menzies Menzies?
Or Menzies Ah Um?
I note that
Kirsty Young on Desert Island Discs now refers to the composer of The Lark Ascending as "Rayf" Vaughan Williams.
That wasn't always the case, was it?
Yes.
:-)
Raymond Luxury Yacht but pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove
In a culture where Chumley and Fanshawe are mysteriously written as Cholmondeley and Featherstonehaugh then a Hard G in Gillian Welch is barely on the radar.
Featherstonehaugh is Fanshawe
but Fetherstonhaugh is, erm, Fetherstonhaw, as I was soundly told by someone of that spelling.
Did you go to Maudlin
or Keys?
The book Freakonomics...
...mentions a baby girl whose name was pronounced 'shuh-TEED' but was in fact spelt 'Shithead.'
Surnames
I won't name it, just in case, but about 10 years ago I worked with two brothers who had very different pronunciations of their surname. Which was a bit weird.
Powell & Powell
The brothers Powell, who were government advisors, pronounced their surname differently.
Charles, who advised Mrs Thatcher, had it rhyming with pole whereas Jonathan, who advised Tony Blair had it in the normal way, rhyming with towel.
Powell
But the Dance To the Music of Time hitmaker (is this right?), Anthony Powell pronounced it Pole, too, so Charlie wasn't the only one.
Although Anthony P was a crashing snob, so...
Ralph
(Rafe) Fiennes.
Tedious man.
You should meet his brother
After 30 seconds in his company my brain had melted.
And talking of names...
Louis Armstrong will always be Luw-ee not Luw-is and Candi Staton will always be Stat-On and never Stayt-On.
Or something like that.
Luw-is is his name...
..whereas Luw-ee is his nickname...I think.
I have a version of "Hello Dolly" where Armstrong sings -
Well, Hello Dolly
This is Luw-is, Dolly
etc.
I have met his brother!
Well, one of them. Joseph. He was very nice.
I've met an Aunt* of theirs
and she was very nice too.
*I think it was an Aunt but definitely related.
That whole Ralph/Rafe thing...
...is infuriating.
It's the Mother Of All Affectations. He should be Fienned for it.
Actually it's not.
The phonetic "Ralf" pronunciation is a relative innovation. Its traditional pronunciation is "Rafe". It's one of those things, like "normalcy", that people always vituperate about - the one as an affectation, the other as an "awful Americanism".
In fact not, in either case ("normalcy" appears in Dr. Johnson's writings, among many others).
Nevertheless...
...it's an irritating as 'Leftenant'. The US pronunciation is, for a change, much more sensible!
Can we agree, though, about that annoying man Viscount Dianasbrother and his pronunciation of the family mansion as 'Alltrop' instead of 'Althorpe', its spelling? That's just pathetic and ridiculous. in fact, its Allcrap.
No, not really. Sorry.
I think a family gets to call its house whatever it likes. I think people pretty much have the right to ask for whatever pronunciation of their names they like. To me, "Allthrup" is no more an affectation than "Wymondham" being pronounced "Windham" or "Costessey" being "Cossy" (good old Norfolk). I'll even respect an "Eleanorrrrrr" if the owner of the name really thinks she's called that. ;-)
Also - sorry Colin, not being deliberately contentious - but I think American pronunciations and spellings are frequently just as, if not more, sensible as/than our own.
Norfolk has some great ones
My favourite is Happisburgh which is pronounced hays-borough.
I'll bow to your very reasionable and zenlike views...
...on this, Bob!
To be pedantic, though, as the original post asks the question 'Does it annoy you?' I'll still have to say, alas and howsoever irrationally, that ALLTROP and RAFE and LEFTENANT do actually rather annoy me and will continue to do so. One man's annoyance is another's shrug of the shoulders...
Anyway, here's another one: I heard Melvyn Bragg on Radio4 earlier taking about Aztecs - pronouncing their city Ten-ock-tit-lan [phonetic rendering] as Ten-osh-tit-lan. And yes, you guess correctly: it annoyed me.
Indeed, Melvyn's voice - is it nasal or adenoidal or just 'Melvyn'? -has been a source of mild annoyance for decades.
Ha!
Zenlike, that's me. Famous for it.
(Actually, blog persona notwithstanding, I'm genuinely a fairly laid back chap. Though I shan't waste too much breath selling that one on here! ;-) )
Melvyn's got form here
On a radio discussion of the life of Genghis Khan, he insisted on pronouncing it authentically (Jing-is), which is was different enough to be annoying.
Similarly, he always sounds the "J" in Don Juan which he maintains is correct - it may well be - but it grates.
I bet in his spare time he hangs around Westminster telling tourists that Big Ben is actually the bell.
But, on the other hand, he pronounces Don Quixote
'Quick-sote' as that's how he learned it at school even though he knows it's wrong.
Is that why?
Explains a lot. Most of the English Lit Dept at my California University pronounced them 'Quick-sote' and 'Don Jew-wan'. To us snotty 18 and 19 year olds, in a place where even the dimmest dolt can read and pronounce a Spanish name/word, it seemed an effete english affectation. Guess we were wrong.
Byron's Don Juan
is meant to be pronounced like that. It doesn't rhyme otherwise. So it's Byron whose pronunciation is wrong.
"Quick-sote" is crap, though.
So how do you pronounce "quixotic"?
Hmmm?
Norman St John Stevas
always puzzles me.
Nozza to his mates
Went to a rugby match at an exclusive school the other day.
It was so posh they had the "Sinjunn"'s Ambulance there.
It's an interesting one that, wonder if over time the pronounciation has morphed owing to one person's unusual way of saying it.
This thread made me think of the Football Commentator one-upmanship thing where they try to pronounce a player's name in ever more complicated ways, trying to sound closer to what's assumed to be the real thing than their rivals.
Ole-Gunnar Solskjaer went from plain old Solshyer to Solshheeeearrrgghha in a reasonably short time.
Footy commentators
Gabriel Agbonlahor is another example. He's English, so his name is pronounced like Angel Gabriel, yet commentators insist on calling him Gabrielle, like the singer.
Another funny one was when Paul Lambert was playing for Dortmund and the English commentator, thinking he was foreign, called him Lamberrrrr.
And Arsenal's 3rd choice 'keeper's surname...
...should be Al-moo-NEAR, not al-MOO-nia. Ask his mum. Or madre.
Er...
In that case he's got a weird mum. Almunia is a fairly common Spanish surname and it's definitely pronounced with the stress on the "moo". There'd have to be an accent mark on the i for it to be pronounced as you suggest - and there isn't.
If the name were Portuguese rather than Spanish, you'd be right, because the two languages' rules for the use of accents in diphthongs are slightly different. That's why, to achieve the same pronunciation, Barcelona had a player called "Romario" and Brazil one called "Romário".
As posh as Kensington -
where a crèche is a car accident?
Or Morningside
where sex is what coal is purchased in.
What Americans do to French words.
I suppose it's revenge against gallic hoity-toitiness.
Mayder-Dee.
Paper ma-shayyy.
They're trying. But they get it so wrong - even wrongerer than we do.
Can't they just ask the Canadians?
PS) Where's Arkinsaw?
They're no longer French
when they're American place names. Like names on this lil island. As for comical pronunciations of French words...
If it annoys French people
which it unquestionably will do, I'm happy. The French are incredibly pedantic about pronunciation in a way that would be absolutely unworkable in Anglophone countries. I kind of admire their cussedness but it's held them back as a nation.
Christopher Lambert
Kris Toff Her Lamb Bert
or..
Krisstoff Lom Bear?
Care to comment on this assertion,
Rosbif?
Mrs H used to work in France...
...her colleagues couldn't pronounce 'Heather' so she was called 'Eeth-errrr'. What a shame her surname at the time wasn't Orr.
Heather seems to problematic for others too.
I have a friend called Heather who lived in Spain teaching English and her students had a great deal of difficulty reconciling how she says her name with how it is spelt. The best she could come up with to tell her class that Heather sounds pretty much as a Spaniard would say 'jeda'.
Mrs H is often cold, whereas I rarely feel cold...
...hence I've always imagined her named to be a kind of instruction. (Think about it!)
Bryson
I vaguely remember reading in a Bill Bryson book that French place names, by law, were renames - La Fayette became Lafeyette etc. Something to do with the Post Office I think. Vaguely.
Notre Dame
always gets me when the College of that name in Indiana is always pronounced 'Noter Dame' as in the 'Noter Dame' vs Purdue (Pronounced Pur-doo) football game.
Cretin always pronounced as "Creet'n" - they must get plenty of practice!
Always gets you,
does it?
Apparently
so.
Teeth-grindingly (Bruxism-ly) so.
Problem, mon brave?
Cholmondely
'Chumley'
I love that. You would never get it unless it was explained to you, would you?
I may ask Fraser to change the spelling of my username to perhaps 'Beagheraughzergh' in its honour.
Reminds me....
...of an old episode of QI when Rich Hall was joking on about ridiculous English place names, and said something about "Satan-is-my-Master On Thames".
Bill Bailey cuts in, quick as a flash, and goes "Actually, it's pronounced Semster."
Cholmondeley and Cholmondeston
Both in Cheshire, or should that be Cholmondeshire?
In answer to the OP, I'm all in favour of oddball pronunciations. Why just have one silent letter when you can have five? I stop my trains at Slaithwaite in Yorkshire and even the posh totty automated announcer calls it 'Slawet'. But the winner is Woolfardisworthy in Devon, which I think I'm right in saying has a silent 'fardith'.
Anyway, remember Pamela Stephenson taking off Angela Rippon's enunciation on Not the Nine o' Clock News? It explains why I still know more about African politics from the 70s than any other era.
Try giving a visiting American directions for getting
from Woolsery to Launceston...
Or a Tasmanian
for that matter, where it is Lon-ses-ton.
You can probably tell by now. Place names - I love 'em.
Or when a New Zealander pronounces Loughborough
as Looga-baruga.
When it should really be pronounced
Low Brow
I say ...
Luff Beruff.*
Isn't this all an illustration of the well known GHOTI puzzle?
*Obviously I don't!
You've missed out an E, there, fella
Cholmondeley in S.W Cheshire...
4 silly bubbles bad, 2 silly bubbles good.
D'oh!
Or D'eaupthaugh.
Good call.
Ones that change
When I were a lad it was Bowie (as in long bow) then it became Bowie (as in bow down). And Adidas (as in River Dee) now it's Adidas (as in, err, addy). Actually I vaguely remember this being mentioned in a Best/Worse or suchlike column on the mag. Not having a good day.
Adidas
was based on the founder's name Adi (Adolf) Dassler. His brother Rudolph broke away and founded Puma.
Aberchirder
Pronounced "foggy loan"
Though that is possibly an example of a different phenomenon - a place referred to by a completely different name by the locals.
Mold = Yr Wyddrug
Except I couldn't do the sign for "not quite equal to"...
You've missed out a G there fella
Yr Wyddgrug
Yours anorakically
Yikes!
I'll be getting lost near there and ending up in Bae Colwyn (Colwyn Bay) or, worse, Conwy (Conway). I know my way around those parts now so they can have all the signs in Welsh. It'd be just like going to a foreign country like...er...Wales...er...
But surely that's valid as it's the place name in a different
language? There's loads of them round here:
Monmouth = Trefynwy
Skenfrith = Ynysgynwraidd
Abergavenny = Y Fenni
etc etc
Extra S's
Talking of place names in different languages, the Umpire family were on holiday in Nice last week and were discussing French place names.
Are Mrs U and I 'misremembering' or, when we were kids, did Marseille used to be spelled Marseilles when written in English? Similarly was Lyon written Lyons, or was that just the cake / ice cream manufacturer?
If the extra S was added to the names can anyone explain why? Is it just some kind of back-formation because of the all the French cities that do have an S at the end of their name (Nantes, Rennes, Reims, Troyes, Nimes, etc.)?
Marseilles
is the English version of Marseille. That's what it says on Wikipedia anyway, so it must be true. Doesn't say the same for Lyon though.
Lyons
It says exactly that on the version of the Lyon Wikipedia page that I'm looking at:
Even so, why is there an extra S added to Marseille? It doesn't make sense.
My French master
said it was in return for the 's' the French put in 'Londres'
It was simply Marseille...
...when I saw them supporting Judas Priest in 1979.
It has got an "s"...
...in Lee-on-Solent.
My name
Well my surname can be pronounced in a variety of ways (I know because I've heard it done) there is only one correct way as far as I'm concerned but I really don't care if someone gets it wrong, why should they know. However, once someone knows I think they should get it right, even if to them my method is odd (it's not!).
Surely everybody is used to different pronunciations of their names around the world and not's not just due to a different accent. An American is more likely to call me Jarn and what's the point of me correcting them? I say tomarto etc....
What Jarn said
My surname is pronounced differently in the US to the way it's pronounced over here.
In the UK, it rhymes with 'swearing'. In the US, it rhymes with 'boring'.
After a while, I started using the local pronunciation depending upon which country I was in. Much simpler all round and no skin off my nose.
Any land that has towns named Bicester and Towcester
pronounced as they are ought to breed people far more tolerant about pronunciations.
No idea what you mean.
I had a lovely slice of towcest for my breakfast this morning.
I work with a lovely bloke
called Waheed, which can only be said in similar fashion to "aciiiiiid"
That, Dave
Is very funny.
I wish this place were real
There's a village in Lincs...
...called Cowbit. Pronounce 'Cobbit'.
If this thread had a theme song...
Gervais
pronounced " unfunny fat f*cker "......
A bit off-topic
but I'm beginning to notice a new horror - what some people do to the word "Formula" in "Formula One".
The guy on r4 this morning was calling it "Formlia One" (presumably he would look down his nose at people who say "nucular" or "popliar" or "spectacliar"). And somebody else last week kept saying "Formerler".
It's form-you-ler. Is that difficult?
Ackcherly, it's Form-you-lar, la
:-)
As my li'l sis said as a kid
Better call for an ambliance.
One more thing: "poignant"
A couple of weeks ago the Thought For the Day woman on R4 - I think it was Rosemary Lane Priestly - actually said this word with a hard "g". That kind of 10-year-old's mistake from supposedly sophisticated adults is quite pitiful.
Similarly..
an amazing number of people of a certain age in Ireland say thremendious
(soft t, extra syllable).
I've even heard epitome pronounced eppy-tome (ouch!).
Hyperbole
I seem to recall hearing someone on R4 pronouncing it hyper-bowl a while back.
My A-LEVEL ENGLISH TEACHER
My A-LEVEL ENGLISH TEACHER did the same.
So did our Prime Minister
just a few weeks ago
More Americanisms and university housemates
AMERICANS: How can you make Craig and Greg sound so similar? Is there a middle ground name over there, Cregg?
UNIVERSITY HOUSEMATES: Your daddy may be a private pilot who's a big noise at the golf club and your house may well be a six-bedroomed monster hiding behind its electronic gates, but your surname is still Orrell, love - you know, like the area of Wigan. Orr-ell doesn't exist.
Cuventry
I've always found that a ghastly affection. Anyone from Coventry actually call it that.
Does anyone say 'an otel' rather than 'a hotel'?
American pronunciations are silly in some cases. Sorry MAM, but they are, especially around food.
Paaaaaaarsta
Riz-o-dough
Gourrrrmay (anything that's not a burger, basically)
Oreg-ano (with the little jump in the middle)
Erb (where did the 'H' go")
Bayzil
As for actors, it's a minefield:
Kevin Waitley not Wotley
Miriam Margolees not Margolez
Shyer Le Boff
Mark Gay-tiss
Gillian Carney
Samantha Jannus
Anthony La Paylia
etc.
Never been sure about Bowie though. Once and for all, is it Beau-ie or Bough-ie?
American Pronunciations
Quite often stick more closely to the pronunciation in the country where the word originated: Pasta, Gourmet, Herb. It's our version of English that has gone off at a tangent.
In New England, Worcester, Massachusetts has the same pronuciation as here, probably because English settlers named it. There is a Leicester too but I've yet to find out if it is pronounced the same way as here. Thames isn't.
As for Oregano, it became the accepted pronunciation in the Irish-Italian Neighbourhoods of New York and spread from there. I know this for a fact as I just made it up.
Oregano
It's a borrowing from the Spanish orégano, where the stress pattern - as the accent mark is there to indicate - is exactly as the Americans have it.
Ah - Ha!
I never made the connection before. Thanks Archie.
Herb/Erb
You know that Paul Simon track "Spirit Voices" off of "The Rhythm of the Saints"?
When he sings...
"My hands were numb
My feet were lead
I drank a cup of 'erbal brew"
I want to shout IT'S 'HERBAL', MAN, HERBAL WITH AN H. PRONOUNCE THE BLOODY H!
Sorry. As you were, etc.
Are you Bob in disguise?
(just sing the fucking song!!)
Smiley thing
Haha
I done yer actual lol. Nice one, Declan.
So this is just..
your "online persona" then, is it Bob?
Bet you're a load of fun actually.
Another smiley thing
Ha...
...nah, I don't have that amount of artifice in me! It's just how it comes out, I guess. But honest, I'm quite nice really. :-)
I like that
"quite" nice :)
Well...
...I wouldn't want to overdo the enthusiasm.
An 'otel
Definitely use that form. It was drilled into me at school complete with a rule across the knuckles.
That's another one, a 12" wooden (or plastic) tool with s straight edge is, apparently, a rule. A ruler is the sovereign of a nation. My knuckles suffered for that one as well :-)
Your problem was that you were using imperial measures.
Had you been metric, you would have been using metres, and your teacher would not have been able to deny that you might have been referring to a meter ruler, as in something with which to keep regular musical time.
I hate that pronunciation
If I ever hear anyone using it I'll respond with "a hotel' with an extra hard h.
Why?
(puzzled look)
Because
it just sounds affected and I was brought up to say me aitches.
Brought up to say your aitches or your haitches?
:-)
Can't tell the difference between a Kiwi and an Aussie accent?
If they say the letter H as "haitch" - they're Australian.
No apologies necessary Nickle-man
Wayfarer (or I'll call him RayBan) was correct. Most US pronunciations (on the coasts) are closer to their country of origin. Boy howdy there are some deviations. I've been to Ver-DIE, NV and didn't like it one bit. But that paaaarsta crap is largely that. No amerikun puts an 'r' in it. Engerlish, however cannot say a word that ends in 'a' without turning it into an 'er' ending. To whit; 'Marier went to Eye-beefer to see her mar and par where she et some paster.'
You know, this whole 'fuck me that sounds weird and must be wrong as wrong' is a bit tribal and islandy. Folks is diffr'nt.
Bill Bryson
wrote about being corrected by a snotty radio producer over his "incorrect" American pronunciation of a word. He made the point that it wasn't incorrect, just different and just as valid as the British pronunciation.
Not all Engerlish stick an "er" on
If you're from Bristol (pronounced 'Bristle'), then you would stick an 'al' on.
So, "Marial went to Ibithal to see 'er mum and dad, where she ate some pastal".
Flavoured with oreganal...
Janner
in the areal! Ship shape! Good ideal, moy luvver.
Proper job!
.
The Stimpettes were born and bred in Bristol
and still occasionally say something is "gurt lush" as a statement of approval.
Gert ideal my babba
They could have been born in Porra Zed.
Gurt lush
We live near Bristle, and often visit the Colsonall, Hippoldrome and Tobaccol Factory for gigs.
Sometimes, going to Wagamamal for a meal.
Nearer to home, people put "to?" at the end of a phrase.
For example, "We went to Hestercombe at the weekend".
"Hestercombe"? "Where's that to"?
Very occasionally, the FPO visits 'Asdal' in Hereford
to do a 'big shop'.
She also uses, "Where's that to?" and "Where be that?". In spite of living in Wales for several years she doesn't show any sign of losing her Brizzle accent whereas the Stimpettes are now speaking 'Brizzle-speak' in a South Wales accent - a sort of mid-Severn-Estuary dialect:-)
"Gurt lush"?!?
...what on earth does that translate as?
My Belfastian speech bugbear is the interpolation of "wee" into seemingly everything - especially in shops:
eg. EVERY Tesco cashier: "Do you have a wee Clubcard?"
Every time I feel like saying, "No, actually I don't presently have a Clubcard of any size" or "No, but I've got this normally sized one". But I never do - I feel like I'd sound boorish and judgemental. I'm not (I hope). I just can't stand that pointless, lazy, irrelevant word.
Gurt (or gert) Lush
Always assumed gurt is great. As in "with a gurt big stick I'll 'av 'ee down, blackbird I'll 'av 'ee.
Lush = luscious?
"Oh, God 'aah". Say it in a Phil-Harding-from-Time-Team accent...
I'd have to know who...
...Phil Harding WAS first! (never watched Time Team)
Anyway, being a dialects expert, Greyfellow, can you translate the Geordie phrase 'HowWayYaBoogaMan'? Lindisfarne's Ray 'Jacka' Jackson used to shout it out in between lines in the chorus of latterday live versions of 'Fog On The Tyne'. Took me years to work out what it was he was saying. that's it phonetically. Am I right in thing it means, "Oh, yes? How interesting"...?
Phil 'Arding
He's an archaeologist chappie, with a penchant for well-battered felt trilbies. Top programme, Time Team.
"Oh, god 'ah, Tony, that's real archaeology down there".
Not sure about 'Howwayyaboogerman'. Any of the Massive oblige?
There's also "Hadda-way-an-shite-man".
'ERE TONY COME AND LOOK WHAT OI'VE FOUND
I was in Salisbury at the weekend and apparently missed him by moments...curses.
That's roight, Tony...
... first century Samian ware.
Haddaway and Shite
A well-known firm of Newcastle solicitors
HowWayYaBoogaMan
Howway - come on
Ya - you
Booga - bugger
Man - er, man
Thank you!
.
Have an up
for the Wurzels image in my head right now
Gert Lush
simply means "Really great".
Only yesterday, Madame Foxy, currently ensconced in the Emerald Isle, spoke to a young peer of similar equine enthusiasms, and enquired as to the suitability of her hotel accommodation in the vicinity of the forthcoming Connemara Pony sales. Some of the local hotels leave something to be desired in terms of their facilities, and Mme. Foxy was keen to ensure that those to whom she may be something of a mentor had secured adequately well appointed lodgings. The young lady to whom she spoke is from a well thought of local family, highly skilled in matters equine, but perhaps somewhat unsophisticated in her approach to the critical appraisal of hotel accommodation. Her considered opinion was that the Bed & Breakfast establishment with whom she had chosen to lodge was, "Gert lush". By that we have assumed that hot and cold running water is available, that the toilet arrangements are appropriately sanitary, and that the cooked breakfast options allow one to politely decline the black pudding without causing offence.
But when politely declining..
Would one refer to the Celtic variation of boudin noir as "black pudding" or "black pudden" as it is, I believe, termed in the local vernacular?
Celtic Blacky Puds
Twomey's Original Harrington's Recipe Black Pudding, from Clonakilty, West Cork. Mmmmm, yum.
Johnny Vaughan has to put up with that woman on the advert...
...time and time again saying "Burrekkfast".
Nestlé
Remember in the old days, when people generally pronounced it to rhyme with "trestle"?
Michelin
how come it's French for the (preposterously overinflated in its importance) restaurant guide and English (Mitchell-In) for the manlier world of tyres?
Oh.
I say "meeshlan" for both.
Wasn't that their own pronunciation?
I seem to recall it was always ♪ "Nestle's Milky Bar" ♫ rather than ♪ "Nestlé's Milky Bar" ♫.
Where did it all go wrong?
I aks you.
Created
Seems to be pronounced by everyone from politicians to the Beeb as Crated. It drives me bananas.
The Beeb?
Surely it's the Bubba See these days?
Those old-fashioned Kindle things...
...you know, the ones with actual pages, are all pronounced "buck" on 5 Layve. It fair makes me want to turn back to TalkSport (not really).
Well...
...I'm used to people pronouncing my surname wrong, even after knowing me for a while. Someone once even tried to persuade me that it MUST have a hard G in it, which it doesn't, because "it stands to reason". Yeah, well, you know. Fuck off. It's my fucking name. My rules.
my wife is from
some funny place down south - Hertfordshire pronounced Hartfordshire - whereas I am from Yorkshire. We can't agree on the pronunciation of many things - path, bath, castle etc. I go to the bathroom - she goes to the bar thrum. We're bonkers.
badartdog (pronounced b'dartdog)
'Course...
...there are some of yer older folk who insist on Har'fordshire. True fact. Seems to have fallen entirely out of use now, a bit like the Nene Valley, which everyone seemingly now pronounces "Neen" but which an elderly acquaintance of mine is adamant should be "Nenn".
It's "Nenn"
in Northamptonshire. I was quickly put right on that when I first moved here.
When I first moved to northamptonshire...
I was also put right on the nenn pronunciation but have cussedly stuck to nene ever since regardless.
The accent is northants has now largely flattened out to standard estuary English, however older people will still say I'm got one of those, instead of I've, which drives me crazy.
There are plenty of country types
who'll drop even more of it, leaving Ha'fuh'shur'.
Shrewsbury.
Outsiders call it Shrowsbury for some reason.
A similar debate rages about Southwell. Having lived in the area I can tell you that Notts people call it Suthell. A lot of the current residents, by no means all "blow-ins", says it as it looks. Who's right? Can I be arsed to care?
Shrewsbury
I grew up there and never got it. "Shrowsbury"or "Shrewsbury". I still use both pronunciations, depending on mood and general loveliness of those present.
Southwell City
My dad was a football ref in Notts for many years. He often used to referee the wonderfully (and accurately!) named Southwell City FC. They were always referred to as 'Suthell' by the club officials who used to ring our house ("Hi. Is Mike there? It's Jim here from Suthell City...")
Other teams he refereed included Blidworth pronounced 'Blidduth' and Rainworth pronounced 'Rennuth'.
Geordie language an' that
In the North East, it is normal to pronounce seaside towns like Bournemouth, Tynemouth, Weymouth...etc with a full 'mouth'.
I remember saying 'Tynemuth' when I moved up here and getting sniggered at.
They also use the word 'tret' (as in 'treat people how ye'd want to be tret), which as far as I'm aware isn't a real word.
It was also quite amusing during the Raoul Moat case, when news reporters continually reported from the police HQ in 'Pontyland', instead of Ponteeeelund.
Made it sound like a Welsh theme park.
Tret as participle of treat
Humberside too, I think. My Cleethorpian best mate says it occasionally.
Humberside is a police force and a fire service.
Not a place.
You're thinking of Lincolnshire and East Yorkshire.
In Grimsby (NE Lincs) you can't say "car park" without smiling.
It's by the side of the Humber.
He calls it that. That'll do for me. Anyway, all my English geography was learned from Morrissey.
Me too
I would never have known of Grasmere otherwise
And in my case
Newport Pagnell. Seriously.
You mean you've never heard the hilarious 'Convoy' by
Laurie Lingo And The Dipsticks?
"Newport Pagnell, Toddington, and even Watford Gap
After so many bacon, eggs, sausage and beans
What I really needed was a nap"
Grimsby always makes me think of the Elton John track
or, more accurately, the Bernie Taupin lyric. I can't imagine, for one second, that Reg has ever drunk in the Skinners Arms, let alone dined on their pie 'n' peas
Ponteeeeeeland
My hometown.
Anyone who calls it Pontyland gets lamped.
Or 'state of the art subliminal light fitted' if Darras Hall
Areet wor Beezu mon
Mrs Pants is from Darras Hall as you know. You wouldn't think she's from north of Oxford, apart from one tiny give away - the number which comes before two is 'won', not 'wun'.
I love NE accents
The unexpected stress on the last syllable rather than the first still catches me out afetr donkey's years e.g Stamfordham is StamfordHAM, Ovingham is OvingJAM, Bearl is Birrell.
I grew up darn sarf and its all blurring into one ugly accent down there now - Some accents do flatten everything out but the ones I love are hugely expressive and also include many octaves for no good reason - my Lancs father in law can get 4 octaves into the word 'No'
Coastal towns
Port Mad Dog - it really ought to be.
My GF's name...
...is Meadhbh. Work that one out (I couldn't.)
The funny thing about that name, Calco...
...is that of ALL the various ways of spelling it (Meadhbh, Meabh, Maeve...) NONE spell it like the female equivalent of Dave (ie Mave).
I've never understood that.
I mean, we'd never tolerate a Deadhbhid Hepworth, would we?
And as for this current ridiculous fad for parents adding completely unnecessary extra vowels to 'Rachel' (Raichael, Raechael, Raichelle et al) - grow up!
Of course...
...but she's Oirish, with the language and the accent and the fiddle-playing and everything.
Deadhbhid Hepworth... Makes him sound almost interesting.
a guess without looking down the thread
Mayve?
More Americanisms
Iran and Iraq are not I ran and I raq.
Route is not rout.
Aluminium is not aluminum
Zed is not Zee.
A bit harsh
Route is pronounced in both ways in the UK. The Americans just use one of the options for all meanings.
Aluminium is pronounced how it's spelt in both places as is zed/zee.
The ones that I find oddest is in the US they say sodder instead of solder. Another oddity is their use of boo-ee instead of boy for buoy (I can see where they're coming from with that one though).
Does that mean they say...
...coo-ee instead of key for quay?
Sailors have been known to say coo-ee.
... by the way, have the last 40 years happened?
You are Dick Emery and I claim my £5!
I believe
Aluminum was so-called in the USA to prevent rights infringement (Aluminium having originally been a Registered Trade Mark.)
It's surprising they haven't abbreviated it to...
...'Num, after all those other weird abbreviations they go in for: 'Nam, 'Gitmo, etc
It's not too wild a flight of fancy to imagine a US newsreader beginning a report: 'D Cam, P Min of G Brit, said today, regarding the forthcoming summit on international fraud with the Prez - the BamCamScamSlam.... etc etc"
No,
it is a pretty wild flight of fancy. But for some, I suppose it's fun to imagine.
Perhaps that's the same reason why that woman
was saying Dobly.
One word
Please help a confused pleb from the provinces:
Marylebone
?
Varies.
Some say Marlabone. The rest of us say Marralabone.
That's the problem
it varies
It varies
like so many other words.
It also sounds like Mare-bin
It's just that
to me, it seems to be one of the single most arbitrary place name pronunciations in the country. Many of the others quoted tend to come from a consensus of locals or similar deciding on a weird way of saying something and sticking with it that confuses outsiders.
But Marylebone is one of those names that you could walk up to people in the street and ask about and no two of them would say it the same way. My head bleeds.
Makes playing Monopoly difficult too
Speaking of which...
"You are (fill in blank) and I claim my five pounds"
This is presumably a throwback to some pop culture-type thing....can anyone explain its origin for an out-of-towner please?
The Daily Mirror
And its regular 'Andy Capp' cartoon.
Andy had a mate who went by the name of 'Chalky White'.
Every summer (I'm talkng the '60s and '70s here), the Mirror used to do a promotion whereby 'Chalky' (ie one of their roving reporters) would be 'out and about' in a popular seaside destination. They would give clues in the paper as to his whereabouts and his attire etc.
If you thought you had chanced upon Chalky at any point in time, if you went up and tapped him on the shoulder (no doubt with your rolled-up copy of The Mirror) and said "You are Chalky White and I claim my five pounds" - then Chalky (if indeed it was him) would, quite literally, give you a crisp new fiver and you might get your name in the following day's edition.
I doubt this has happened for the best part of twenty years, although I believe some local radio stations keep the tradition going...
And, before that (the late 1920s, in fact)
Lobby Lud of the Westminster Gazette. ("Lobby, Ludgate" was the telegram address of the Gazette's offices.)
As spoofed (although I'm not sure 'spoof' is the literary term)
by Graham Greene in 'Brighton Rock'
Of course.
I'd quite forgotten about that, Stimpy. Thanks.
Don't forget
the Blue Cross Man, didn't they do something similar to promote their matches, back when everyone was on the health-giving tabs?
in the wake of the empire
brave social anthropologists would head off for the middle of Not Europeland to learn about the strange foreign ways of the indigenous people, often dealing with language groups that were as far from Germanic or Romance languages as you can imagine (Xhosa anyone?) ...
the practical way to deal with things - hiring an interpreter notwithstanding - was to write stuff down phonetically then work them out as you went along
for an example of how difficult that can be, i was once passing our very own Loch Awe and had a conversation with a local bloke about the hotel on the far side of the loch ... (was working on a guidebook at the time) ... after asking him twice, not catching what he said and looking like a twat, i wrote down 'Ornassic' thinking. 'That can't be right but i'll check it out' ...
the hotel was the Ardanaiseig (pronounced ard-an-a-saig with a almost unvoiced D and if the initial vowel moves a little from A to O then you have the 'Ornassic' that i heard)
(Gaelic orthography makes Mary Le Bone seems quaintly manageable ... from Mary By The Bourne, apparently)
Used to work with a Rotherham United fan
Roundly lambasted for referring to the Tivoli End at Millmoor. It is, in fact, called the Tiv-Olly End.
I moved to Mansfield when I was 13
to discover that I - and every other English-speaking person in the world - had always said "tongue" wrong, ie to rhyme with "sung". Apparently it should rhyme with "song". So Tongue and Tong are homophones. Apparently. Anyone who says otherwise is mad.
It's All Gone Pete Tongue.
It's a Sheffield thing as well.
Richard Hawley has been 'tong-tied' in song, and the Monkeys and Little Man Tate also have form in this area...
Well both places are where you eat "cobs"
... that little bit of NE Derbys. too.
the thing about Mansfield is that they have no notion that anybody says it any other way.
I happened to be driving through Derby city centre
a couple of years ago and I noticed a small shop with the sign "Cob Shop" over the door.
Funny
I was only mentioning cobs earlier today http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/never-mind-pronunciationits-when-a....
I think you'll be understood using the word cob in the West or East Midlands but as I said earlier you'll get funny looks where buns and baps take preference.
Rolls are 'Batches'
in the West Midlands, cobs in North Warwickshire and Leicestershire.
Newcastle
An odd thing seems to have with BBC newsreaders and Newcastle's name. They will make an attempt at pronouncing it as Newcassel, as if they come from there. I don't mind anyone's accent, but it sounds odd to drop into a different one for just one word. If they are going to be consistent, then they should apply the locals' pronunciation to other towns as well. For example, I hope to hear the big towns on the coast of Hampshire referred to as Portsmuff and Soufampton.
Or indeed, in news reports about
Liverpule
Mancheshtoh
Sunnerlun
Bratford
Ull
Glazgae
Bilfaast
or, internationally
Dobblun, Noo Yoik, or Toronno, A!
No Glaswegian...
...has ever said 'Glazgae'. It's 'Glesga'.
Liverpule?
It's Libpewl, lid!
(and Tronno - where did that extra 'o' come from?)
Bratford
fun can be had round here by suggesting that locals pronounce Bradford as Bratford. "no, no" they exclaim "it's not Bratford with a T, its Bratford". Don't bother arguing. There is some subtle difference the non-local ear cannot pick up.
My mum and dad are from there
I think the best way to describe it is (yorkshire accent) "Bra'fudd".
The east yorkshire vowel
Coming from Hull I probably pronounce it Bradurd, so I am not throwing stones.
This.
I used to read the travel news for BBC local radio stations including Newcastle. I'm from London. I used to say Newcarstle (i.e. the same way I'd say "castle", with a long a). I was told - pretty quickly and in no uncertain terms - to stop it and say Newcastle with a short a.
Similarly, BBC Radio Sheffield's management sent me a note: "There is no arse in Doncaster".
Anyway, I thought it sounded patronising talking London and then dropping into regional pronunciation for just the one word here and there, but that's what the bosses wanted, so I did it.
There may be no arse in Doncaster..
But whoever decided on that policy probably came from Scunthorpe.
Very good. That was a proper lol.
How does that
apply to Penistone?
Everyone who reads travel news for BBC Radio Sheffield
pronounces Penistone incorrectly at least once. Including me.
Only once, mind.
nyoo-CASSel
When in the mood to be a pain in the arse (ie when I'm awake) I tease my lovely southern friends and neighbours who sometimes pronounce Newcastle with the long 'a' sound.
I feign ignorance. 'Where?'
'Newcastle. Your neck of the woods'
'There's no such place. It's Nyoocassel'
In Durham...
...they pronounced it nyuhCASSel, generic "uh" vowel in the first syllable, emphasis on the second. I say it NEWcassel, through long exposure. Going any more native would've got me head kicked in for taking the piss, I suspect. So would NewCARsel, but for standard shandy-southern-poof reasons.
The "Not The Nine O'Clock News Courtroom Sketch" is instructive
Although it does get a bit wearing. I do still find myself saying 'Aleebee' and 'Aliarse' from time to time.
He's been watching The Killing
... they're always saying aleebee on that.
You could be funnin' me (as they say in the NE)* ,
but NTNOCN only pre-dates the Killing by about 30 years.
* or 'Joking Me' as I have heard in the Midlands (makes me cringe).
Of course
am jestin' yer.
Griff hasn't looked that fresh-faced since J. Lennon and I. Curtis walked the earth
My mum has just told me..
That my dad's cousin, who did missionary work in India, always refers to the Himalayas as the He-Marley-Ers.
Which may be correct, but..
Apparently the chap after whom...
Mount Everest was named pronounced his name EVE-rest.
I don't believe anyone pronounces his mountain that way.
The Himalaya
(just the one) is the preferred pronunciation of dreadlocked trustafarian gap year layabouts, as in "Josh and I are going to build an orphanage in the Himalaya using nothing but recycled water bottles and mummy's credit cards"
Off topic a tad, but all the same,
the regional (national) equivalent that amuses and defeats me every time is "gwasanaethau".
By the time I've worked out how to pronounce it, I'm fifty yards past the fucking slip road.
a very very very very long time ago
after visiting the girlfriend's relatives in Wells, Somerset, we were hitch-hiking our way somewhere else (can't recall where - possibly over to some of her family in Wiltshire) and a car stopped. The driver didn't offer a lift but was seeking directions. The question nonplussed me given where we were, but I just said, 'Well, head for Bristol, pick up the M5, go north, on to the M6, keep going, past Carlisle, probably best to turn off the A74 at Abington, take the Biggar road, past Biggar, then you can't really miss it. It's pretty obvious really.'
The driver looked at me again, baffled, and said very slowly, 'Emborough?'
Similarly...
standing at Clapham Junction station on the way to the cricket I heard someone ask a railway employee "Which platform for The Oval?"
After some thought the reply came: "Platform six, change at Bristol..."
I was recently asked by a car load of
giggling, and seemingly high, yoofs if I knew the way to Southend. As this was in Milton Keynes and the enquiry was accompanied by much laughing and "Look at his reaction, the old fart" nudging, I simply thought about it for a moment and replied: "Yes."
The looks on their faces were well worth the distraction.
The correct pronunciation
of certain London boroughs:
Clapham: "Clarm"
Balham: Blarm (Gateway to the South)
Streatham: "St Reetham"
Battersea: "Bert-ay-seeya"
or so my public school chums tell me.
One of the less salubrious neighbourhoods in Portsmouth..
Is referred to by those In The Know as Saint Amshaw.
(Stamshaw, of course..)
Foom
another London borough I believe.
Wrongity wrong
Battersea: Barzy
Clapham : South chelsea
St Ockwell
Tower Hamléts
and further afield, the Land of the Rising Sun is:
Shapen
I live down the road from Theydon Bois
It being in Essex it's pronounced locally as "Thay-don Boys", but it's often referred to affectionately as "Tay-don Bwah".
There's also the Tony LeVoi car dealership, pronounced by all as "Tony Ler-voy".
Tony LeVoi...
By any chance is he from Switzerland?
the post to end this thread?
c and p from another forum I frequent:
' Don't get me started about my wife's job as a lawyer in Brooklyn Family Court.
Name of child on official court documents: "Shithead"
Cracked-out mother in audience: "Its pronounced "shuh-theeeed"
True story.
One of those stories is enough to make me lose faith in humanity. '
Another true story....
Along similar lines - my GLW used to work in a social services office here in California processing birth certificates. One woman had twins, boy and girl. Their names? Male (pronounced Ma-Lay) and Female (pronounced Fe-Malay)...
Always makes me laugh
to hear - usually Englanders - struggle with Scottish place names. Like Milngavie (Mill-guy), Strathaven (Stray-ven), Strathmiglo (Stra-mig-lay), Kilncadzow (Kil-kay-zay). And our North American friends with Edinburgh...Edinboro, eh, Edinburg, eh??
My American beloved..
....calls Kincardine - KINK-er-DEEN.
My offspring
goes by the name of Robeeeear when I want to wind him up.
Anyone else deliberately mispronounce family names for comic effect?
Tortoise
When I first moved to London, my Yorkshire pronunciation of the hard-shelled reptile as "tor-toys" caused great hilarity among southern workmates.
Then I noticed they were pronouncing it "tor-tus".
Tor-toys
in Scotland too. But were you working in a pet shop or what?
Funnily enough...
...no.
But it's amazing what interesting and diverse topics come up in the tea room.
The older Stimpette is obsessed by the colour turquoise
But how should it be pronounced? Turk-oyz or Turk-waaz?
Turk-woyz, no?
I was always taught it was pronounced in pseudo-French
as Turk-waaz but Stimpette #1 says Turk-woyz.
As far as I'm concerned, it's purple.
from what I've heard about you, Lenny,
it's always purple.
Plastic...
I elongate my a's in many words (bath, castle, garage), but I say plastic with a short a. Not so my mate's mum, who'd always say "Plarstic". Never heard any else say it. Found it very odd.
Thought it was
Plasteeq.
or is that only when you're blowing the doors off the safe ?
Mrs Bob's family...
...all say plar-stic. Very odd. They say proe-ject (noun) too, rather than prodge-ect. I've just about trained the FPO out of those.
Garage
So you say "Gahr-idge" do you Hannah? That's a bit odd. :)
Homer and Moe come into play here
Moe mentions his garage and Homer mocks him, saying "ooh! Garaaage! I'm Moe, and I have a Garaaage!"
Moe says "So what do you call it?"
Homer - (eyes dart left to right in panic)"erm, er...a car hole".
Andrew Marr
Makes me want to twist his head off when he says it that way.
I think his head probably does twist off.
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that he's actually a novelty sauce bottle.
More where that came from
Avoiding professional northernerdom, I can agree to differ on most of those elongated As. But not trarnsport. And how did they end up so much in the Middle East - Irarq, Irarn, Pakistarn, Afgharnistarn - according to the Beeb?
GlaRstonbury.
Have you been to that farmers annual fete, yet, Ralph?
Duvet..
D'you-vay or Doo-vay?
We've had to compromise in our house. Duvvit.
(In Portsmouth.. "Joovay")
What about that new dragon then?
Is it Hilary Day-vey or Hilary De-vey (think french here). Methinks she used to be the former but would rather be the latter now that she's rich and on telly and that.
Whakatane
Ngaruawahia
Eketahuna
Matamata
Enough to confuse any pakeha.
Not just pakeha
I sent an email to someone arranging a meeting in Onehunga and the spellcheck turned it into "Overhung".
I've lived in the Midlands for several years
so have become used to foive and noine as integers; but still become irrationally displeased at references to Sole ihull.
Do you prefer, then.....
....the incorrect pronunciation of "sollihull". Sadly it would seem that even some, especially some of the aspiring upwards denizens of same seem to.
Hey ho.....
Wipers
On this day of all days, let us remember the West Flanders region of Ypres, the site of intense and sustained battles during WWI.
Because Ypres was hard to say, the British soldiers' mispronunciation of the Belgian town as "Wipers" was adopted as a nickname and later entered the language.
See also
"White Sheet" and "Plug Street" (Whyteshaete and Ploegsteert). On a related note, French General Franchet-D'Esperey was always known to the British troops as "Desperate Frenchie"...