Entertainment For Lively Minds
Unreleased 60s-70s British folk recordings seeking their makers
Three years ago I was bequeathed a remarkable trove of reel to reel and cassette recordings of folk club gigs spanning 1963-66 (from St Andrews University folk club), 1971-75 (from a folk club in Kent), and 1977-89 from a folk club in Belfast. There are also various reels from folk festivals during that period and a number of reels of off-air BBC session recordings (folk, rock, blues etc) from the mid '60s to c.1973. The club recordings are meticulously databased; the session recordings I've had to trawl through and identify (still not completed - it's more of a chore than you might imagine) using Ken Garner's books and a load of intuition.
A handful of the club recordings have been utilised on boxed sets (Carthy and Shirley Collins), Davey Graham's 1966 St Andrews set is available in full from Rollercoaster, and Robin Dransfield's and John Martyn's Kent sets are available on Hux - with a few further shows by Barry Dransfield and Davey Graham, certainly, to come, and a couple more currently TBC. All with artist approval and royalties.
I've tried in fits and starts over the past 3 years (other obligations permitting) to get things going between labels and other artists, but it's a lot of work from my end (having things digitised to provide samples, then sending copies to maybe two or three members of a band and a label or two, only to find that one band member still has a grudge against another, or doesn't like the other's preferred choice of label to deal with. It can be tortuous and, really, who has the time?
So it's struck me (thanks to Sheev's Hunter Muskett posting) that, with Word bloggers' help, it might be possible to short circuit that situation. Really, I'm happy to have materials digitised to order (it costs about £50 a reel using a local studio) if the artists who made them want to release them or use them as sources for bonus tracks on CDs etc. The stuff might as well be heard before that generation is gone and before the market for CDs dies utterly.
If anyone reading this knows personally (ie has personal contact with) any artist/former artist they think might be immortalised on these recordings, ask and I'll let you know on this forum if there's anything in the vault (including BBC session tracks from thev above period) and if so you can put said person in touch with me. this might end up terribly time consuming but I was left this material by its original owner because he reckoned I'd be able to do something with it, so that's what I'm doing... (A large amount of the Northern Irish material has already been digitised and placed for public access in the Irish Trad Music Archive in Dublin and the NI Arts Council's collection in Belfast, but I don't expect to be able to get the English and Scottish material similarly digitised/archived - despite its being by far the most interesting commercially and historically).
It goes without saying that this isn't a tape-trading free-for-all - honestly, I just want to make connections with any artists who morally own the stuff and who might find it useful...
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I said
it on the other thread Colin - but I'll say it on this one too - you are a treasure and with this offer - quite literally - a national one
Unrerleased folk reccordings 60's_70's
Hi Colin H it's a long shot I know, but I was doing a few gigs here and there in the 60's/70's, still am for that matter.The names's Dave Burland, fingers crossed
Dave, you're in luck!
The Old Ash Tree, Medway FC 14.3.72, 13 songs - mono, I'm afraid, but better than nothing!
Would you like me to have it digitised professionally at a local studio (circa £40 from previous experience) and posted to you, to release or do with as you wish, or shall I cut you a copy on mini disc (first or instead of), which I'm happy to do at home at no cost to anyone?
(If you'll permit me a moment of gentle absurdism: It strikes me that this is the 21st Century 'folk process' in action - a 'cyber tradition', no less - wherein 'descendent' of field recorder passes material BACK to original performer 40 years after...)
In fact... to take the process further, Dave, would you be up for recording something for an Anne Briggs tribute album, the idea for which sort of popped into being on another thread on this site (search for the tag line "she was a rare thing")? It may or may not happen - it's dependent on Universal okaying the license of several existing AB covers to Hux records before a handful of new covers are solicited/commissioned - but if you have a fond regard for the lady's work or trad songs associated with her, you'd be very welcome!
In other news...
I'm happy to say that I'm currently, as a direct result of this thread (or of the renewed impetus it's given me to do something with all these recordings), committed to providing copies of vintage live material to Gordon Giltrap, Harvey Andrews, Rosemary Tawney (widow of Cyril), and I hope Nic Jones' wife will get back to me in due course.
I should also mention that a load of decent off-air BBC session material from the same archive has been returned to the Bee Gees, Ralph McTell and the estate of another British singer-songwriter. (It's great fun dining out - or, not, as it were! - on the notion that the Bee Gees owe you a tenner [I waived the postage]!) Annoyingly, Universal poo-pooed the use of four 1968 BBC tracks from the archive as bonus cuts on Hux's CD of John Martyn's 1973 Medway show - released with a decent advance to John while he was alive. But then Universal are a giant machine. No morals.
Nic
Hi Colin
I made contact with Nic Jones's wife on your behalf and she is keen to have the tapes - do you want to contact me directly to arrange, or how do you want to play it? I'm happy to help.
Strange - I sent a long email to Julia Jones...
...a couple of days ago, via her site. I'd also mentioned Dave Burland and some other people her site seems to be connected with. Ask her to check her website email inbox, and if my email has gone adrift then perhaps you or she could contact me via the 'contact' facility we apparently all have as registered Word bloggers (Fraser advises not posting actual e-address here). In short: I hope she WILL do something with the tapes - a full Nic gig in stereo from 1974, at the very least, deserves wider availability.
Email
I've used the contact function in the past but I can't find it now!
Click on someone's user name
And there should be a contact 'tab' available on their account page. If it isn't, it means that that person has switched the "allow others to contact me" option off.
You are the man Fraser
Spot on. Colin, you need to allow others to contact you, than I'll sort it out.
I think it's sorted now Twang...
...I've just fiddled with the 'allow others to contact you' bit of my account, so hopefully it'll work now. If not, contact Fraser and maybe he can sort something out. alternatively, while I can't print here the 'info at' address of the email associated with it (in case it's honed-in-on automatically by the cyber scanning minions of nefarious Nigerian businessmen keen to offer me their astounding financial opportunities), I do have a (very rarely updated) website which should be easy enough to find. I can be contacted easily enough via that.
Dave your'e in luck
Hi Colin, what a surprise, yes I will willingly send you the dosh for the digitised version, if you think tghe quality's OK, and yes I would be very much up for recording something on teh Anne Briggs album, and honour. Dave B
I suspect Mr Burland won't blow his own trumpet here...
... but those amongst us who enjoyed the Beeswing thread and the music therein should really try and check out Mr B's canon of work. Having seen him live on a number of occasions he has the knack of both inhabiting a song whilst still letting it speak for itself, a bit like Anne B's approach, kind of beautifully understated. Highly influential too, along with Nic Jones, on younger folk luminaries, most notably perhaps Kate Rusby.
Check out the details from the man himself -
http://www.daveburland.com/
Hope this isn't out of place here!
Or just possibly...
...an idiot who's going to end up using aeons of free time slaving over a hot reel to reel machine!
:-)
But, hey, we don't know if any of the Massive actually know any '70s folkies yet...
Crikey
all power to your elbow Colin, what a great idea!
I don't know any likely candidates personally, but there are a few whose music I love who have available live archives so thinly populated I'll be keen to see what turns up, if anything.
There's personal favourites Harvey Andrews and Cyril Tawney for a start... no idea if either of them ever played those venues, but I can hope.
You're in luck Vulpes...
Harvey Andrews:
Medway Folk Club 10/8/71 (13 songs) mono
Medway Folk Club 29/2/72 (13 songs) mono
Redditch Folk Club 10/75 (2 songs) probably mono
Medway Folk Club 2/1/73 (11 songs) mono - in duo with Graham Cooper
Medway Folk Club 16/7/74 (16 songs) stereo - in duo with Graham Cooper
Cyril Tawney:
Troubadour, London 1963
Victory Memorial Hall, somewhere in Scotland, 1964 (18 songs) mono
St Andrews folk club, 1965 (8 songs) mono
Medway Folk Club 2/2/71 (16 songs) mono
Medway folk club 28/3/73 (14 songs) mono
Medway folk club 10/4/73 (9 songs) mono
Bromyard folk festival 9/75 -probably mono
I'd love to see this sort of stuff tapped into and used by the artists in some way, to the benefit of them and their fans. There's very little commercial value in much of the archive (*), especially given the decline of the record industry, but as own-label releases of 500 or 1000, I'm sure a lot of it - of the calibre of the two artists above - would be viable and historically valuable.
(* Note: there is, however, a handful of recordings which could be perceived as having value outside of a small coterie of folk fans - like two 1973 Richard & Linda Thompson club shows, one with Simon Nicol, one in mono and one in stereo. But the problem is, who do you deal with in that instance - Richard? Linda? definitely not Universal (a grinding amoral machine).)
Oh my goodness, I want to hear those.
You should drop Harvey a line via his website. He's playing the Friday Folk Club at The Village Pump in Trowbridge next week, but I think I won't be able to make it, sadly, otherwise I'd have a natter with him there and then about this; he's a very approachable fellow.
Cyril's no longer with us, but Rosemary Tawney keeps the flame alive on the interwebbydoodaa, and a quick Google will reveal her address and telephone number.
Does he do 'The Oggie Man' on any of the ones you have? Love that song, it gives me goosebumps. This is from my own vinyl:
Here's a scan of the album, a Word cover candidate if ever I saw one:

Okay Vulp...
...I've just Mrs T a line...
It might be...
...worth dropping the folks at Topic an e-mail. They've probably got more folkie contact details than anyone else in the UK.
Though come to think of it, they were probably the first people you thought of, too.
I used to work in the Topic building...
and the owner has one magnificent collection of Hawaiian shirts... all vintage. I was somewhat disappointed that he didn't have an enormous collection of Aran sweaters.
Woo - Barry Dransfield! Oh Yes!
The guy who runs this blog
http://witchseason.blogspot.com/
knows Barry Dransfield (I think), and there are lots of links to artists own sites, including Cyril Tawney on this one.
http://time-has-told-me.blogspot.com/
This is truly a labour of love Colin, but a really valuable one too!
I'm ahead of you there Soapy...
...I contacted Barry about 2-3 years back and he's up for allowing the release of the (terrific) BD solo show I have, from May 1973 (circa his fabulous self-titled Polydor/Folk Mill LP).
It will, all being well, appear on Hux Records at some point - the only reason a deal hasn't been firmed up already is that a Robin Dransfield project on the same label (a 2CD 'A Lighter Touch' combining Robin's 1980 Topic LP 'Tidewave' with a 1972 RD solo show from the archive) sort of came to the boil first.
There are also two Robin & Barry Dransfield duo concerts in the vault: the end of 1971 (just before they split up) in mono, and 1975 (just after they reconvened) in stereo.
For a third-party small label with physical distribution like Hux these kind of projects are only borderline commercial - if around 1000 can sell they're viable. (And Hux don't skimp on the package - trust me, the Robin Dransfield 2CD set is terrific, with great mastering, lots of pics and a long note from Robin. If you've a spare tenner buy yourself one for Christmas!) Hence it would be wrong to expect any third-party label to do more than 2 or 3 of these sort of vintage folk gig releases a year.
But for an individual artist/estate to do an own label, own website marketed thing with a vintage gig is MUCH more viable at lesser unit numbers. So it makes sense if any individual artists with that kind of set-up (and 200-300 loyal punters who would delight in a decent recording of a full gig from the 70s) would get in touch with me.
Yes, I can put out a few feelers - like to Julia Jones via her cottage industry Nic J site - but it'd be so much easier if the word got out and people came to me...
Excellent news!
I'm sure the (rather small) Nic Jones Fanbase (including myself) will be delighted if some more of his live recordings emerge, especially if they are better quality than some of the patchier offerings so far, (in recording quality, not content which is always superb), and anything that can attempt to put right the distribution/ownership/ availability problems of his earlier material has got to be welcome. As for the Robin and Barry stuff, I really am very excited, obviously the same problems beset them as do Nic, and the last real duo stuff came from Neil Wayne at Free Reed of course, who did a great job with their "Up to Now" set about 12 years ago or so.
Its marvellous to think that there is a motherlode of stuff that can be tapped into, but you are correct, the audience for this stuff is tiny (sadly), and I guess dwindling all the time.
I have an old cassette rip of the Robin solo album - and it is great. I'm off now to track down the Hux version, ta for that, and good luck with the quest!
I hear what you're saying lads, and yet...
...this is partly the problem: I only have so much time in the world, so I was hoping that OTHER people - if anyone here, say, lives next door to Tony Rose's widow, or Dave Burland, or pops down the pub with Peter Bellamy's offspring etc etc - might take some of the slack, rather than pointing ME in a load of directions! I know you mean well, but I've been down the road of me contacting artists and labels a couple of years back and it's a tiresome process, especially if there's more than one individual involved. (There's a terrific and really well recorded Etchingham Steam Band show from 1974 which probably won't be heard because members have extraneous differences to this day - that alone took endless emails and posting several CDRs of samples to people...)
The ideal scenario is not if I (or anyone else) goes hounding Tony Engle at Topic or whomever, but rather if any actual artists who might be interested got in touch and, if need be, covered the very small cost of me transferring the one or two reel-to-reel tapes of their vintage performances that I happen to have to a digital, masterable form.
Trust me, lugging a reel to reel machine to a local studio and doing this for even one reel of tape takes an evening out of my life. So it kind of needs there to be an individual - an artist or a widow or a descendent - at the receiving end to whom it will make a real difference, sentimentally or commercially, to make that lost evening of life seem worthwhile.
That said... I have (in my newly inspired and animated frame of mind!) just emailed Nic Jones wife Julia offering her four NJ shows (1972, 74, 78, 79). The three in stereo sound great. I hope she can make use of them.
But do keep the ideas coming... :-D
Nic
Fantastic, I do look forward to the Nic JOnes ones appearing in due course. Their little home lable is great, and the last one I bought Nic signed for me! Shucks.
Harvey Andrews
Hi Colin. I'm Harvey's son, Scott, and I'd definitely be interested in getting those concerts digitised! Drop me a line and let me know the details. I think you can contact me via my Word blog acount, but failing that, please drop me a line via www.eclectica.info.
Cheers
Woo Hooo!
Result.
I knew...
...this would work... :-)
Colin - this thread just got
Colin - this thread just got mentioned on the fRoots Forum. Do you mind if I quote your opening post over there? If I do, how would people contact you without needing to go through a registration process here? I imagine we might well have interested readers.
Oh, and I don't suppose anything of mine's in there? Like a Peel session from August '68? Or a Hot Vultures gig from the folk club in Kent (this would be Geoff Harden's stuff, yes?)
Best
Ian A
I was going to suggest contacting Ian A...
... as I thought about this thread whilst driving, but had a senior moment and forgot. Come on Ian - get your lot over here to join in too - it's one big party most of the time, with only the odd fall-out, not too many fisticuffs. A bit like the Froots forum really, but with added Atomic Rooster!
(Still thoroughly enjoying "Stubble" a lot by the way - highly recommended)
Hello there Ian...
...yes it is the late and very much missed Geoff Harden's collection, and there is INDEED some Ian A in there: a 4 song song floor spot, inc. 1 with Maggie Holland, (at an Al Stewart gig) at the Old Ash Tree on 18.7.72, in mono.
No Hot Vultures, but plenty of Hot Potato (no, me neither...)
I'll have to get back to you on the BBC off-air front - I'll have to plough through what I've identified thus far on many sheets of paper...
As for people getting touch... I'll have a think about it (in a rush out just now). Back later...
Okay, I've thought about it...
And you can contact me via the contact form.
But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, Ian and anyone else, even though it's not my personal email address and, if need be (ie. if a horde of cranks start bothering me), I can always close it down, I'd really rather not be solicited by people, even on this address, claiming to be Joe Bloggs' biggest fan and can they have anything in the collection etc etc. If it's Joe Bloggs himself, great; if it's a load of his fans, not so great...
I can already see slaving over a hot reel to reel machine with a mini disc plugged into it being a large part of my Christmas hols - which is fine, I was hoping to have a list of keen artists and families wanting copies of things - but I'm starting to sweat a little now that Ian A is announcing it over at Folk Central. Still, open the gates. As long as people won't expect stuff next day delivery!
Colin
You may well be better served allowing people to reach you via the contact tab on your account page rather than putting your e-mail address itself online - this will attract spambots and you'll eventually be solicited by all sorts, most of them flogging viagra and cheap mortgage deals. Let me know, and I'll edit your post to remove the address if you wish.
Ah, fair enough Fraser...
...you're the expert! Go ahead and edit, and we'll take it that Ian A will see these posts and work out how the contact thing you mention works... (Ian, whoever else: I believe it works by clicking on the 'Colin H' in red, then finding the 'contact' tab thereafter)
Fraser, I trust this thread isn't breaking any of the site's rules? It feels like it's in the spirit of the place - certainly, I'm not looking to profit from any of this. If Dave Burland, Nic Jones, et al, want to use the recordings to profit themselves or delight their own 'Massive's [Dave, Nic, Julia - sorry for the jargon: round here we're the Word 'Massive'. No idea how it came to that - save to say that it's 'entered the tradition' :-D ] that's surely a good thing all round, at this Restaurant At The End Of The Record Industry Universe.
Duly edited
And yes, it's certainly within the spirit of the site - and it's obviously of interest to people.
Namaste
Colin. Your efforts are wonderful and supremely beautiful. That's all I want to say.
Posted
Comments duly noted. I've posted it at http://froots.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4920 with the preamble "This post from Colin Harper appears on the Word magazine blog and concerns the recordings made by the late Geoff Harden: Colin is contactable via the blog. Please read down the thread there before contacting him, and only do so if you think he may have recordings of yourself or a close relative/ancestor - please don't bother him with fan requests or suggestions of illegal tape swapping, for which you will rot in analogue hell."
Terrific, Ian, thanks!
... hope it reaches the right people. Trust and hope all is well in fRootsville - and a mini disc of your 1972 set will be in the post to you ASAP... :-)
I haven't (yet) come across your 1968 BBC session, but there are other reels to explore. Some remarkable stuff - Mississippi John hurt, Otis Spann, Jackson Frank, undocumented Fotheringay session (must get a minidisc of that one off to David 'Fledg'ling' Suff), very first Planxty session on Country Meets Folk (yes, must get that one to Christy M...)etc
Glad to say Mrs Jones has now been in touch and I hope she likes the four Nic concerts as much as I do (well, the three I've heard, that is..)
I think a trip to amazon for a x50 pack of minidiscs might be in order...
Mississippi John?
Mississippi John? That's amazing, since he never came to the UK. All the other old/"rediscovered" country blues guys did like Son House, Skip James, Bukka White, Fred McDowell, Big Joe Williams, Sleepy John Estes, Rev Gary Davis, Arthur Crudup - I saw them all and met most - but not Mississippi John Hurt. I wonder where that recording comes from.
Funny you should say that Bob...
...I've been going to a yoga centre called Namaste for a few weeks now and finally decided last night that my back's too buggered to keep on with it (back to the cycling then...). So the back catalogue might be wonderfulness, but the back is a catalogue of woefulness!
I'm a bugger
for scaitica, but I found some simple yoga style exercises on the Interweb that really help and clears it up completely - until it returns once more, but they soon sort it again. It really helps my being able to sit in the half-lotus postion when I meditate. ( stop sniggering at the back...) Anyway Colin, your communications are always very positive and uplifting. Have a good day.
EDIT: Cycling is very good, and I find brisk walking and especially swimming excellent. I can give you some info re. the simple yoga/qi gong exercises if it may help, but this may not be applicable to your own specific back problems.
Fraser, we need your suggestions here.
How can the Massive do a whip-round to sub Colin for these heroic efforts?
Can we collectively send him a gert massive (hah!) box of minidiscs from Staples?
Is there a way you can set up a means for us to bung him a fiver each for being a great bloke via PayPal or similar?
You read my mind
I think this is a fine idea.
Even the legendary 'Carol from Luton'
would approve. :-)
Any Ewan Maccoll or Peggy Seeger?
I know some of the family.
To answer a number of above questions in one box...
Firstly no need for whip rounds: it's a very, very kind thought - really - but I think even a lowly Library Assistant/Perpetually Acting Librarian's salary can cover a few discs and a bit of postage!
Secondly, Ian - you're right about Mississippi John - I knew that, but wasn't thinking when I just quoted some names from the back of a random reel. I've listened to maybe half of Geoff's off-air reels, all of which (thus far) contain almost entirely BBC session tracks, with the odd LP track kept in if Geoff happened to like it I guess. But he clearly had an archivist's ear, for nearly everything can be identified, courtesy of Ken Garner's books as well as surviving fragments of presenter intros, as being exclusives from John Peel's Night Ride or Top Gear, Bob Harris' Sounds Of The 70s, Country Meets Folk, My Kind Of Folk, etc. Sometimes, as in the Fotheringay session I mentioned, the artist (Sandy Denny in this case) will even verbally introduce their studio session tracks.
Alas, despite meticulously databasing in later life his folk club recordings, Geoff never did that for his off air reels - indeed, most have no annotation on the reel boxes at all, while others list several artists (in alphabetical order, not order they appear on the reel) but possibly not absolutely all the artists on that particular reel. The box that enigmatically lists Mississippi John Hurt (it may be only an LP track) also lists Marc Brierly, Mike Chapman, John Fahey, Jackson Frank, Stefan Grossman, Bridget St John, Leon Rosselson and Al Stewart plus a number of poets (Adrian Henri, Roger McGoigh etc). Numbers beside each name (generally 3 or 4 - but no number beside Mississippi John) tend to suggest a complete session. Geoff clearly recorded several whole programmes over the course of a few weeks then edited down the stuff he wanted to keep - generally, as I've said, the exclusive performances - onto one reel, and so forth. [Actually, that particular reel is very folky in flavour - lots of others list Jimi Hendrix, Keef Hartley, Cream, Fleetwood Mac etc - though many of those people's BBC history will already be well documented on CD.]
Curiously, although Geoff knew, a few years back, that I was working on assembling 'The Lost Broadcasts', a 2CD set of Pentangle BBC material - roughly half BBC transcription disc/master tape stuff and half off-air - he neglected to tell me, or maybe to remember, that he had a VAST amount of Pentangle/Jansch /Renbourn session tracks on tape. In fact, about another 2 CDs worth, lots from the prolific 1968 period (when they were, collectively or in duos, seemingly in Broadcasting House every other day) but also several fantastic FM quality tracks from an undocumented session circa 1971. But given what those guys choose to think of me, and I them, I can't see any of this material appearing in their lifetimes.
Thirdly, as for Ewan MacColl & Peggy Seeger, Mavis... yes, there is a TON of it: 86 songs from at least four shows at St Andrews spanning 1964-67 and one show (22 songs) at Medway Folk Club 6.6.72, also one show by Peggy Seeger & John Faulkner at Meday 4.5.71 (21 songs - they must have been feeling a bit tired that night!) - all mono.
It's funny, to put this rush of crazed enthusiasm in a bit of context, I've had a lot of work-related angst in the past 18 months. And that angst was basically crippling my ability to do very much that was creative or fulfilling outside of work. Everything seemed pointless for a while. And then, just recently, it somehow 'defrosted' - the glass started looking half full, not half empty. I could - and did - determine to 'park' my work related issues, to tell my boss and the HR dept two weeks back that I was no longer interested in wasting further time even talking about the seemingly unattainable notion of job evaluations, honorariums, time off in lieu (none of which were forthcoming at a frankly blistering meeting back in August) but was newly resolved to keep doing the load of unpaid (and yet crucial to the institution) work I've been shouldering for the past three years, for pragmatic reasons of my own. It was an end to a stand off. (There's lots more to it than that, but you get the idea...)
The point to all this is that since then my luck seems to have changed: they're talking about promoting me as a librarian, there's a new possibility I'll be at least modestly remunerated by extra points as exam organiser and it looks like I'll be getting an assistant at least part time to ease the mania of running exams and a library single handed at three periods in the year. And all this after I'd stopped worrying about it - the worrying having consumed me for nearly 18 months.
So, in that context, trust me, making a new effort to try and do something proactive with Geoff's legacy that will make at least a few people - maybe even a lot of people - happy is a tiny thing to do. If my name was Earl, I'd call it karma. :-)
Colin
You've made me happy just reading this thread. You're a decent person and you deserve all the good karma there is.
re. MacColl/Seeger
I've contacted the family. Will let you know if they are interested.
Interested
I've put Colin in touch with the MacColls, who are most definitely interested and pleased to discover that this material exists.
I think there should be a piece in the mag about this, it's a remarkable closing of the circle, using what is effectively a folk medium (the internet). For all his self-effacing modesty, Mr. Harper is doing a remarkable thing here.
This is why I love this blog..
..and have no truck with any other.
(..and Mr. Burland's album of RT songs is sublime)