Entertainment For Lively Minds
Top Ten Visionaries in Rock?
Here's one for the sages amongst you to offer some collective wisdom. I've booked myself a ticket to watch the Roger Waters The Wall jamboree at the O2 next year. It occurred to me that for all sorts of reasons - some not entirely favourable to the man himself - Waters is a good example of an artist who while not a particularly exceptional virtuoso musician in his own right, nonetheless pushed the boundaries of rock right across the spectrum of musical arrangement, production, and artistic interpretation. Some of his projects and visions brought global success (middle period Floyd records - DSOTM and The Wall), some didn't (some of his solo output has been bizarre to say the least). You could say the same about Pete Townsend for reasons that needn't detain us here. So how about a poll of top 10 rock visionaries. Here's mine.Views?
1. Bob Dylan
2. McCartney and Lennon
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. Pete Townsend
5. Jimmy Page
6. Roger Waters
7. David Bowie
8. Jeff Beck
9. Brian Wilson
10.Ian Anderson
The last three are probably interchangeable with people like Jagger/Richards, the ELP trio, Brian Eno, Robert Fripp, The Edge, Kurt Cobain, Peter Gabriel, Johnny Marr - even Ian Curtis and John Lydon. You can see how I struggled a bit with my list.
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I would chuck someone out
to make room for Kate Bush.
And make room for George Clinton perhaps ? Prince ?
Stevie Wonder ?
I guess it depends on your definition of visionaries ( and rock ? )
Prince and Stevie W?
No.
They're virtuosos. Visionaries, yes, but too musical to meet the original inclusion criteria.
Visionaries but too musical ?
And Lennon/McCartney, David Bowie and the others on the original list aren't ?
As evident by my many questionmarks in my first post I was confused about the criteria and definitions, and now I'm even more confused...
Thanks Lenny! ;)
Good point, Locust.
Page, Beck and Hendrix being in the original list does confuse things a bit vis a vis virtuosity..
I agree
with your top four certainly. After that I'd nominate:
5) Jagger/Richards
6) Frank Zappa
7) Hank Williams
8) David Bowie
9) Neil Young
10)Chuck Berry
Bubbling under: Ray Davies, Eric Clapton
an up arrow for
Frank Zappa
I don't know how to order the list but
I'd add:
Gram Parsons
Chuck Berry
Leo Fender
Col. Parker
Peter Grant
Malcom McLaren
Link Wray
Brian Eno
No Jeff Lynne?
For shame!
You can't have a list like that without Bo Diddley
So - Bo Diddley. (braggadaccio, use of FX & funny noises, driving beats - he invented hip-hop as well you know)
And I'd add Les Paul, Joe Meek, Leo Fender, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley
Hmm
If the category is "visionaries" I can't see how you can leave out:
Miles Davis
Johnny Cash
Bob Dylan
James Brown
Pete Townsend
Robert Fripp
Iggy Pop
John Cale and Lou Reed
Buddy Holly
Hutter and Schneider
Black Francis
Most If not all of the above
and I'd chuck Robert Wyatt & Little Richard into the mix.
Now obviously..
you'll consider me a soft, wet prat for saying so, but I'm constantly struck by the fact that those (best) Abba records from the seventies have held up extremely well.
So Bjorn and Benni then, along with Dylan, Miles, Zappa, Zorn, Kraftwerk, Wilson, Hendrix, Beatles, Bowie, and Stravinski.
Another shout for Kate
No list of rock/pop visionaries is complete without Kate Bush. The woman is a stone genius, whichever way you cut it. Sampling? Incorporating World Music influences into her music? Predicting the pervasive influence of computers on social interaction? She was in the vanguard. And a thoroughly brilliant and unique singer and songwriter, it goes without saying.
I heartily agree about Ralf Hutter and Florian Schneider. And how about Afrika Bambaataa, who had the extraordinary insight to spot how he could take Kraftwerk's Trans-Europe Express and use it to invent hip-hop? Then There's Giorgio Moroder, who took disco (and dance music in general) into hitherto uncharted waters?
In terms of influencing the sound of an entire era...
I am going to put in a mention for Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards and The Bee Gees.
Hmmmm
Good point.
I can only think of one slight problem.
That era was dire!
In no particular order
1. Climie
2. Fisher
3. Celeste from Daphne & Celeste
4. Sandi Thom
5. Nick Beggs from Ellis, Beggs and Howard (Big Bubbles...no troubles)
6. Leeeee John from The Imagination
7. Jimmy The Hoover from Jimmy The Hoover
8. Guru Josh
9. MC Hammer
10. Van Morrison
Nonsense!
Daphne was the real creative driving force behind the band. Celeste would be nothing without Daphne. Good call re Guru Josh though.
you left out
Ken from Bros...
Joni Mitchell
who did as much as Steely Dan ever did to bring jazz tinged syncopation and sophistication and subversive wit to the world of Raak Moozik.
And a mention for Mr Eno and his American friend Mr Byrne - who created the soundscapes and the infusions of non-Western music that have become standard fare.
Since we are talking about Raak Moozik - maybe Afrika Bambaata and Grandmaster Flash and other Hip-Hop pioneers may not belong - but they kind of do
And perhaps above all - Ahmet and Nesuhi Ertegun and Herb Abramson and Jerry Wexler - the founders and guiding spirits of perhaps the greatest ever record label for the depth and breadth of the talent it fostered and showcased - Atlantic.
Hmm, good point with the label Sheev..
by the same token, let's not forget Manfred Eicher. Okay, not Raak, but y'know..
In that case
can I nominate the wonderful Chris Blackwell, founder of Island records?
Directly or indirectly Blackwell gave us Free, Jethro Tull, Nick Drake, John Martyn, Cat Stevens, Traffic, King Crimson, Roxy Music etc and so changed the face of 60s/70s rock.
That's without even mentioning Bob Marley and an entire world of reggae/ska/blue beat acts that he nurtured alongside his rock protégés.
And if this thread is to continue, can we establish once and for all that it's "Townshend" (and not Townsend). Pedantic maybe, but we are representing the best rock monthly in the world, after all. ;-)
consider it established once and for all
yes, I meant the lead guitarist of The Who. I agree typos can often lead to serious misunderstandings.
Good call, Mojoworking..
Blackwell's Island is /was indeed unique. Supplied us with all the great stuff you mention, and also the wonderful one-hit-wonders The Buggles and Up Where We Belong, back to back on Island Life from last year.
Thank you sir
Mind you, I always felt that Blackwell pissed on his chips in later years with the likes of U2, Grace Jones and others.
I think Grace Jones' albums of the early 80s
were fantastic - a totally inspired blend of teutonic electronica and reggae infused syncopations of Sly and Robbie.
U2 have had their musical highspots too - and most of the opprobium they attract is due to Bono's messianic delusions - rather than the music itself.
Think both of them were infinitely more interesting than Dr Strangely Strange for example
I think...
... if Leo Fender's on the list, you'd have to add Adolph Rickenbacker, Paul Bigsby & Seth Lover too.
hmm first , referring back to the terms of the essay question
as all good students should
key terms are visionaries and rock
"rock" this would seem to preclude artists from other styles such as jazz. Even if their contribution informed rock it would sem to be a big call to include them in a list of visionaries of rock as their major contribution lies elsewehre
visionaries - that suggests someone who sees where things are going, what rock music will be like etc so this is a person who is not necessarily an innovator but anticipates innovation
so that would limit the field
tricky
perhaps some of the following
malcolm mclaren
brian eno
bowie
jon landau as "he saw the future of rock'n'roll and his name is bruce springsteen" err that was a joke
elvis presley or perhaps it was sam phillips
hmmm maybe the visioanries are in fact producers, promoters and managers
Mark Hollis
Now there's some vision.
Morrissey
Surely. But I agree with Mark Hollis as well.
Daevid Allen or
Steve Hillage
The New Visionaries
1. Jonny Greenwood
2. Wayne Coyne
3. Rick Rubin
4. Richard James
5. Mark E.Smith
6. Bobby Gillespie
7. Kevin Shields
8. Boom Bip
9. Bjork
10. Steve Albini
White, white, white
What about Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Ray Charles, Prince, Sly Stone, George Clinton, Lee Perry, Bob Marley, Chuck D, Grandmaster Flash, Dr Dre, Jay Z...
To be fair
the original blog subject was 'Visionaries in Rock'. The above are known principally for Soul, Funk, Hip Hop, Reggae and so forth. Mr Clinton and Mr Prince straddle several genres but essentially they are known for The Funk are they not?
Look again
Counting duplicate mentions, there have been at least 18 non-white artists mentioned in this thread so far (possibly more, since I'm not totally familiar with some of the more recent/obscure artists nominated).
And does it really have to come down to a competition between the races when we're discussing the international language of music?
You know, David and Nigel
are both like, like poets, you know, like Shelley and Byron, or people like that. The two totally distinct types of visionaries. It's like fire and ice, basically, you see and I feel like my role in the band is to be kind of in the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water, in a sense.
Coyne / Rhys
I was going to add The Flaming Lips (Wayne Coyne, as mentioned above by fedoraboy).
Also, Super Furry Animals.
Too much piffle.....not enough skiffle!
For me the 'visionaries' are the ones who paved the way for the Golden Age; The Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Jimi.....i.e. the 60s.
Anything after '69 is after the Lord Mayor's Show and quite apart from whether one might think Morrissey, for example, is any good, exactly how good are the acts he is said to have inspired!
Here are five:
Elvis
Buddy Holly
Little Richard
Chuck Berry
and definitely, definitely, definitely, the most under-valued man in post-war popular music, and yet together with Elvis almost certainly the most influential, LONNIE DONEGAN.
Got to agree with that
I always maintain that before the Beatles the two most important/influential figures in British rock by far were Hank Marvin and Lonnie Donegan.
The influence Hank and Lonnie had on the generation of musicians that followed them is incalculable.
George Martin
Amazed he has not been mentioned!