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Time for Kermode & Mayo to go?

Mike1968's picture

I was a big fan of Mark Kermode and Simon Mayo's movie review - when it was part of Mayo's daily Radio 5 show.

It was less than perfect: the reviews often had to jostle with news items and live-feeds from various press conferences and other events.

But the move review section was usually sharp, punchy, funny and to the point.

So when Simon went on a 'big-money transfer' to Radio 2 (this may be an exaggeration) it seemed like a good idea that the duo would continue their partnership with a dedicated two-hour review slot.

Except it hasn't proven to be such a good idea after all.

Why not?

Firstly, it is way too long. There really isn't enough to say about 5 or 6 new films each week to justify 2 hours of airtime. Yes, there are also interviews - but who really wants to hear another actor talking about how much they enjoyed working with everyone on their latest film? So what? Not all interviewees are deadly dull...but most are.

Secondly, and more importantly, the 'Mark and Simon' format does not work. Simon is not a movie reviewer and usually has not seen the movies being discussed. So what? Well, this reduces his role to that of correcting Mark's grammar and questioning some of his more dubious and arbitrary assertions.

This somewhat limited banter has become rather tiring and predictable.

What the programme desperately needs is another critical voice: someone to challenge and debate what Mark says.

This is why the 'Boyd and Floyd' format works so well when they stand in during school holidays. Both are informed critics who often have very different views of the same movies.

On the very few occasions when another informed critical voice appears on the programme it comes alive.

For example, when Joe Cornish was a guest a few weeks back he challenged Mark's review of Attack The Block in an intelligent and forceful way. It made really interesting listening - but only for a few minutes. Such exchanges need to be the norm - not the exception.

In sum: shorten the programme to 1 hour and get someone else in to debate with Mark. Or, make 'Boyd and Floyd' the new permanent reviewers.

2

No..

I like 'em.

4
shane pacey | 30 July 2011 - 6:24am

yep

me too and the podcast is exactly the same length as my new commute result!

2
Chris G | 30 July 2011 - 7:20am

What he said^^^

It's been one of my 'must listen' podcasts for the last five years and I still love it. I listen to the podcast so don't have to sit through the news and travel interruptions, On the few occasions i have listened live, I've found it a frustrating disjointed experience.

While I agree that it was refreshing to hear Kermode and Joe Cornish disagree I don't think I want to hear that every week. And Mayo not being a film nerd is what makes their partnership work. He is the greek chorus (have I used that correctly?) asking the questions the listener might want to ask when Kermode starts talking about obscure Dario Argento films as if everyone knows what he's talking about.

Still the summer holidays are here so you'll be getting some respite shortly as Floyd and Boyd step in.

1
Lard | 30 July 2011 - 7:23am

Argento fillums

aren't very good, they can be stylish like Suspira or crap and not stylish like the rest.

0
Meat Whiplash | 30 July 2011 - 11:47pm

Interesting points

I have to say I still love the programme, though. One of my essential podcasts.

A large part of it must be if you take to the personalities of Mayo and Kermode. I quite like the pedantic banter, but it sounds like maybe you are sick of it. I haven't been listening to them for the whole last 10 years, so maybe that's part of it.

I find I don't agree with Kermode a LOT of the time, but I am just happy to let my own head be the critical disagreement. I don't think I need a dissenting voice on the programme itself (although it would occasionally be nice for someone to correct his factual errors). Although he is quite stubborn and headstrong, it's his force of personality that makes his reviews interesting.

Boyd and Floyd are really good, though. If they had a whole separate programme I would listen to that as well. But whenever they fill in for Kermode I find myself craving Kermode again.

So, all in all, it's each to their own, isn't it? The programme obviously has a lot of mileage left as long as there are dedicated fans like me.

1
Stephen Merrick | 30 July 2011 - 7:23am

Bring me a pair of scissors.

I'm inclined to agree with you on some of your points.

Certainly, since the move to the longer show, the podcast has become far less essential than it used to be. At one point the podcast was barely 35 minutes long (sometimes, on a busy day, it was less than 20) but now, it's regularly well over an hour and often 90 minutes or more. You're right - that's far too much time to simply review films but the padding that comes before the reviews is, in my opinion, unnecessary. All those hellos to x,y or z, back slapping emails from listeners, that quite annoying Code of Conduct (the amount of listener snobbery about cineplexes is sometimes quite jarring) and the interminable Benjamin Sniddlegrass stuff (funny for about two minutes) just don't hold my interest.

Do people really enjoy all that guff? I guess they must but whenever I listen I'm reminded of what Mark Kermode would say whenever he's confronted with a long, baggy, incoherent movie. It's usually something about a ruthless editor and a sharp pair of scissors. I often think the same could apply to the podcast in the new format.

I think when a show like that gets to the point that people are listening on a specific week just to hear an anticipated rant (Pirates, Transformers, etc.) then its inherent value as a review show is compromised. It used to be that Mark Kermode would end up ranting about a movie in an organic fashion, building a head of steam as he discussed the movie's content and qualities. Now he's expected to start in rant mode. But unfortunately there's nowhere to go from there.

I also find myself often questioning Mark Kermode - not on his reviews (after all, it's just his opinion) but on his judgements regarding certain films content. So The Hangover II (not a great film, by any stretch) is slammed for it's misogynistic content but an equally (if not more) offensive film like "The Boat that Rocked" received a positive review (no, really) and any questions about its misogynistic content was brushed aside because he liked it.

I listened to Bradley Cooper on the show yesterday (quite an enjoyable interview, in fairness) and couldn't help thinking that it would have been so much more interesting if Mark Kermode had been there to discuss The Hangover. Cooper was more than willing to defend it but Simon Mayo didn't quite have the werewithal or, perhaps, the inclination to pursue it. I would have liked to have heard a lively discussion between Mark Kermode and Bradley Cooper. Much like, as you said in the original post, the brief debate that took place between Joe Cornish and Mark Kermode back in May.

However, I must say that I still enjoy the review section of the show. I'm big fans of both of them and think that some elements of the show are still of great value. I guess I'd just prefer if the show was split into two podcasts - the way it sometimes used to be. One podcast for interviews and another for the Top Ten listing and new reviews. And Sniddlegrass and the rest can stay on the cutting room floor where they belong.

Still I'm sure they (and others) would say that if we don't like it we don't have to listen or that we could just skip to the reviews.

Incidentally I went to see Beginners last night in my local multiplex. I won't bore you with details of the audience's behaviour or the clarity of the projection (digital or otherwise) but I will say that it's a lovely, lovely film with smashing performances throughout. And Melanie Laurent is unbelievably beautiful. Highly recommended.

1
John Connolly | 30 July 2011 - 8:40am

exactly

the film content is great, but the self referential backslapping is awful. Not as awful, however, as the excruciatingly embarrassing sycophancy on display in the emails and communications from listeners.

2
maggieloveshopey | 30 July 2011 - 10:40pm

You're not wrong there

and while we're at it, do you think that for once you could maybe pronounce Judd Apatow's name correctly? We get it that you're not a fan of his films, but the constant "Apatapatapatapatapa" - really? every time? It's only slightly less irritating than the constant shoehorning into the podcast of "Billy" Friedkin references...

0
Ruff-Diamond | 31 July 2011 - 12:02am

It's the old half hour sitcom.....

.....being made into an hour-and-a-half film scenario.
Sometimes worked ('Dad's Army', 'Likely Lads', 'Porridge').
Usually didn't.

3
ranger | 30 July 2011 - 8:45am

Ah.

Just read this tweet from @wittertainment a moment ago. Suggest that perhaps the OP and I are out of step with the majority.

"Record podcast figures send us off with a skip in our step and hats at a jaunty angle."

Good for them, I guess. Although I'm sure that in some cases Mark Kermode would argue that just because something is popular, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's good.

Still, happy holidays to the pair of them.

0
John Connolly | 30 July 2011 - 8:52am

I love the podcast

even though I haven't seen a movie in years. I have, however, got the feeling that Mayo has become slightly more impatient over the last year or so, and seems slightly bored with the format.

A similar thing seems to have happened to the last series of Adam and Joe. While I still loved it, it was obvious that Joe has moved on, which makes me feel rather sorry for Adam. It was almost Adam's show with Joe as a guest.

0
Podicle | 30 July 2011 - 9:04am

Adam and Joe...

Yep. Right on the money.
Joe wants to make movies, like a grown-up. Good on him, but also... :-(

0
Adman | 31 July 2011 - 11:49pm

Still love it

But there is a bit too much of it for me unless I am doing a lot of travel. Thing is - if I miss it on the radio, I dont hear it. If it is on a podcast I feel strangely compelled to listen, and so they build up.
I'd prefer 90 minutes to 2 hours. But I am pleased it is there at all.

0
paulwright | 30 July 2011 - 9:06am

I don't agree

The reason it works is that Mayo functions to rein in Kermode from some of his obscure flights of fancy.

I agree that some of the interviews are weak, but I listen to the podcast and always have the option of fast-forwarding.

1
Brookster | 30 July 2011 - 9:37am

I agree

I used to listen to it all the time. I still download the podcast but rarely listen to it. If I'm going to listen to a podcast that length about film I'm afraid Filmspotting gets my vote.

It's a considered talk about film (the fact both Adam and Matty have seen the films makes for a proper two-way conversation) without the tired banter and "Hello Jason Isaacs" - maybe Joe Cornish should have told them how "Stepehen!" went on too long.

0
Simon Ford | 30 July 2011 - 10:49am

"just

coming!"

0
DogFacedBoy | 31 July 2011 - 7:42pm

Listen to Boyd (and floyd)

while K&M are away and realise why the Kermode and Mayo show works so well. Boyd is a living egg man who knows sod all about everything and barely lets Nigel Floyd, who does know many things, get a word in. Add to that dimwit enthuse machine Colin Patterson and you've got a bore fest to rule them all. .

I'll wait til they are back from holidays, cheers

0
DogFacedBoy | 30 July 2011 - 11:12am

Sorry

Still love it here too. Although I really think Kermode should be more involved with the interviews - if he's allowed to say what he really thinks. Mayo's interview with Bradley Cooper yesterday was a bit too "What makes you so awesome?" for me.

0
itf | 30 July 2011 - 11:31am

It's not him, it's me

Kermode is a fine fellow I'm sure, but I have never agreed with his taste in, or approach to, films, and his climb to the post of the BBC's premier film expert has left me a bit cold. I suspect I am in the minority on this.

1
pessoa | 30 July 2011 - 12:28pm

sorry...i still enjoy it

Im alwayd disappointed when Boyd & Floyd take over. Kermode & Mayo's constant bickering is a weekly podcast highlight

1
steve | 30 July 2011 - 10:57pm

Why not

have Floyd and Peter Bradshaw fill in for the holidays? Boyd Hilton is a decent TV reviewer but I like film critics to really have a good grounding in the language and history of film, something he does not. Boyd seems to be a lazy booking - a tried and tested participant in Richard Bacon's show, with the producers afraid to take a chance on someone different. Wouldn't surprise me if the rhyming names is a factor too.

Kermode, Floyd and Bradshaw have the ability to avoid patronising their audience without sounding like stuffy lecturers, and it is the job of the presenter, usually Phil Williams or Colin Patterson, to pull them back if they're getting too "Sight And Sound".

0
KDH | 31 July 2011 - 6:23pm

It went down the pan a while back.

At the exact moment when Mr Mayo stopped reading out my emails every week.

0
Lenny Law | 31 July 2011 - 11:30pm
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