Human nature, as you say. There is one on here, which is normal for a long-standing web forum. The problem is that there are sharp-tongued people both in-and-out of the clique who like to trade insults at the slightest provocation.

Uncle Monty is out of the club.

Auditions for his replacement at the old lodge on Sunday - wear odd socks

Perhaps someone could compile a handy print-out-and-keep guide to the members of the clique(s)? That way we'd know which threads were jolly little exchanges of badinage between the self-appointed elite and which were for contributions from the great unwashed...

I'd do it myself only I have absolutely no idea who's in the clique(s).

I never get invited to these cliques.

Seriously though, when two or more posters start drifting off topic and onto their own feuds, I just scroll down. No big deal.

on an internet forum is nature's way of telling you you should be spending more time with your family.

to tweet behind all you non-elite types backs. If they'll have me.

There's only me in it.

clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique clique...

Buggah. Who got any WD40?

Door Jam (still one of the all time great episodes)

As the word ‘Elite’ was daubed across my freshly-waxed chest in lipstick, I felt like one of the star-bellied Sneeches from the Dr. Seuss story The Sneeches. Drunk with power I slathered my naked body with Nutella chocolate spread and called upon the ‘norms’ to “undress me with their tongues.” A few hours later I wandered home, still covered from head to foot in melted chocolate and wasps.

An extract from the forthcoming book - From Out Of This Word: The Rise and Fall of the Self-Appointed Word Elite. Available from selected bookshops.

I think deliberate chippy escalations are quite boring. I just skip them but often they seem unnecessary to me, a bit like drunken skinheads with their "Are you looking at me / WHAT YOR CALLING ME A LIAR" riffs. Chill people. Cliques, maybe inevitable; picking daft arguments - who needs 'em. There's no scenario in which anyone wins - frequently it just creates bad vibes for everyone. A robust debate is great fun but picking fights is dumb. Are you looking at me?

My observations, if anyones interested and lets face it they probably aren't, are ...

•  General feeling of cozy, fireside, biscuit eating. With assumptions to match.

• The viscous attacking of any criticism. As if some generally agreed consensus has been reached.

• The absolutely sickening, reverential references to those who are referred to in hushed tones as "DH" and "ME". Any right thinking recipient of said comments, would be given a feeling of discomfort. Similar, I imagine, to being followed down the street by a rather overweight and easy to get away from stalker.

• Ritualistic behaviour. Such as ending your attempt at humour with such as…

"Puts coat on and leaves"

Can somebody do a Massive glossary and dramatis personae for newbies?

so I'm off to form my own party.

*Adopts Shirley Williams face. Looks for Roy, David and Bill*

ps - that last bit was especially ritualistic.

...last time we did this (or it may have been the time before, or even the time before that), I made you all sing Ebony & Ivory together.

I'll do it again if you aren't careful.

That I post on.

I didn't realise that I was in the clique on the other one until I wasn't in the clique on this one.

As somebody said above, cliques are just human nature and let's not lose sight of the fact that it's just a message board.

Having said that, having grown up watching him and being a long time admirer of his work I still get a giddy thrill when Mr Hepworth posts on the same thread as me.
And I'm FAR from being a teacher's pet.

Electro-pop philosophers once said "it's a lot like life".

I worked for a big company once and you usually found the people snorting patronisingly and strenuously denying that any such thing as a "clique" existed were usually the ones actually in the "clique". Those moaning and sniping jealously about "cliques" were either excluded and desperate to be picked for the team ("me, sir!") or worried that the "clique" were talking about them... ;-)

Anyway, you can join my clique if you want, it's the one where we witter on to no-one in particular about Punk Rock and nasty things like that, make endless lists and moan about why nobody else thinks The Soundtrack of Our Lives are the greatest rock band EVER...!

Jesus, I can't believe I'm sitting here 45 years old writing about bloody cliques on an internet forum...I'm off down the pub!

It's all a bit Mad John matey........or is it??????????....yes, it is.

Can we lock this now before Fraser pulls out his IP wand?

the moment threads on an internet message board start to appear about the threads on an internet message board then things can go one of two ways.

Either everyone has a sudden shock of realization about what they're engaged in and pack it in or people disappear up an increasingly self-referential collective arsehole and the message board goes into a steep and irrecoverable decline.

Please people, I implore you, former not latter.

PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION [stop] I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLIQUE THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER [stop]

[Unfortunately I don't think I was invited to be a member in the first place

they were definitely the best disco group

Too bloody right there is. And I'm in it. If you're not it's because you smell and have fleas.

my life being on the outside of cliques and groups and am quite happy to be there. There are cliques here as in every walk of life, it is human nature and seriously if it bothers you I don't know what else to say. There is so much good about this site, so much to read, so much shared knowledge and good nature that I am staggered the scroll down feature isn't used more often if you find something disagreeable. I was tempted to just write "For fucks sake grow up" but that would be disrespectful to everyone and that's not my way but I would like to say get some perspective, enjoy the blog and the marvellous contributors. I think those that argue enjoy it, if you don't ignore it and come and join me on the outside

Suggesting your tired of of a subject and then starting a post dedicated to it seems a strange move to me.

Anyway, while I'm here....

I am much more of a reader than poster on this site, although I did have a few months of fairly prolific posting coinciding with the arrival of the iPhone, and I do think it is quite difficult to become one of the 'inner circle', however I have always put this down to not being on the site enough ( demands of work keep me away for days at a time sometimes and then you just seem to drift to the outer edges again) and therefore missing stuff (never did understand all that Gerry Rafferty is dead stuff) and, and don't worry I'm neither fishing for compliments or particularly concerned about this, my posts and replies are just not insightful or amusing enough to elicit much response.

I have, and I'm not sure this is important, also never felt the need to use one of the ( to me anyway) fairly lame in jokes such as TMFTL and gets coat etc.

In short I guess I will largely remain a reader unless I feel I can offer genuine insight into a particular thread (unlikely unless the subjects of modern soul, the Algarve and improving productivity in the manufacturing process of corrugated packaging comes up).

..and neither I, or Vulpes, or Archie, or Skirky or James Blast or Hannah or Sheev or Leedsboy or Drakeygirl or Ganglesprocket or Backwards 7 have noticed any kind of clique.
So there.
(Neither has The Hepster, as we call him.)

And now I'm going to sleep with tears of laughter! Keep it up chaps!

Peace and Love.

I'm sure Heppy would want it that way. Lets do it for him.

(4:44am and I can't sleep cos I've got a presentation to do tomorrow. Thought I'd get up and at least use insomnia constructively by starting work. Instead I'm catching up on the Peoples Front of Judea/Judean Peoples Front schism....sigh)

the Clique shall inherit The Word.

....is to go out of your way to where there isn't a 'clique' (i.e. pass the Emirates to get to Underhill, pass The Ivy to get to a pie 'n' mash etc. etc.).
Good for the soul.

(P.S. The Clique were a mod group on Pye in '65 who had a fabulous flop called 'We Didn't Kiss, We Didn't Love, But Now We Do'!)

These boards are probably the politest, even with some of The sniping that goes on occasionally that Ive ever seen. Having frequented online game forums a lot in my younger days I can tell you, those places are warzones. You lot are pussycats.

.

The one thing that means we're all able to share opinions, stories and assorted apocrypha is the same thing that causes rifts: the Internet. As Hannah alluded to above, sometimes things can be taken the wrong way when just written in plain text. Add to that the fact we're all hiding behind some kind of anonymity (or, at least, the fact whoever you're talking to won't punch you if you disagree with them), and feelings are likely to be heightened.

Thing is, we're all on here for the same reason. We like the magazine, we're interested in pop culture and the wider world, and we like debate. With so much in common, we'd all probably get along just fine if we met up in the pub for a couple of drinks and a chinwag.

Dear all,

I am sorry. My attempt at getting people to stop moaning about cliques was ill-thought out and I have effectively created an Argument Room. Anyone would think I was the secret identity of Danny Baker, all the trouble I've been making.

As Art suggests above, it was spectacularly daft of me to claim I'm fed up of something and then get everyone talking about it. I think I had the vague idea that I would start it, attract all the clique-related arguments to one place (a bit like a beer trap for slugs) and never return. 'Twas a foolish notion. I made everyone talk about it even more, set a few spin-off arguments going and helped the blog hurtle towards self-referential oblivion.

For what it's worth, I think it's really nice that people have become either on or offline friends here; it speaks volumes about the kind of people who frequent the blog that it has happened so naturally. That people see these friendships as a negative is disappointing, but inevitable I suppose.

Now, if you fancy hanging out with me and the rest of my fellow idiots, you can find us in the tartan paint aisle. Join us before the Heppo vs Heppy war breaks out; there can be only one victor.

Chris Martin would not approve of this thread.

It's a private joke between me and Uncle Monty. No one else will know what we mean. I have emailed the details and backgrounds of the joke to Mr Ellen, Mr Lewry and Mr Hepworth to keep them on side.

in Clique du Soleil! Fire-breathing! Tightrope walking! Chubby checking and astonishing feats of ukulele-based catering, all set to the haunting backbeat of an especially-mixed HJH soundscape. Patrons are advised to bring weatherproof clothing for the encore, which is performed solo by Mr. Law.

Heppy
The Heppster
The Hep Cat
Comrade Heppski
The Heppatollah
Mr H
Mr 1971
Mr Grumpy Trousers
The No.1 Fall Enemy
Davey Baby
Yorkie
DH
That bastard (Elvis Costello's dad only)
Sir David Of Hepworth
Lord Heppington
The Big D
Van Morrison
"No I meant the tall one"

Take your pick

The Hepmeister
The Hepulator
Ledz Hep
Uncle Dave

The Hep Hop, the Heppy to the Heppy to the, Hep Hop, you dont stop, rockin' to the bang bang boogie said up jump the rhythm to the rhythm of the boogie the beat.

My perception is that there are a number of people, and quite a large number at that, who contribute to this blog who a) are able to express their views confidently and eloquently and b) because of their personal/work circumstances, have the time to be able to do so.

I'm not sure that this constitutes a clique. Like art vanderlay above, my own circumstances prevent me from visiting more than a couple of times a day to see what's going on. I post very occasionally, and when I do, I don't feel that I'm being given the cold shoulder at all, as I think would be the case if there were an impenetrable clique in operation.

I generally enjoy reading the post of the regular contributors, and when a spat breaks out, it rarely descends into extreme rudeness and it is easy to scroll past these in any case. In a large group of individuals who are not afraid to express their own views, it is inevitable that some folk will rub each other up the wrong way. The rest of us can easily ignore it when this happens.

I shall stand in the corner with my back to the class.

Seriously, I am so if my occasional ranting has upset anyone. Fine point from LL about the mingles, my one & only mingle to date was an absolute joy.

I stand by my opinion about undue deference to Magazine hierarchy, but I will wind my neck in about cliques from now on.

If there is something I am unhappy about, I shall try my best to ignore it.

drone....

BOOM!!!

clique-clique yeah!

clique every trip, now then, now then etc......

it is more that there are certain posters who go ballistic at any criticism of the magazine and its employees which is problematic.
This "my word right or wrong" attitude has led to some rather nasty posts aimed at people who have bought up genuine criticisms of the mag over reviews, piss poor journalism etc.
It's nice that these people feel so close to the magazine that they feel the need to defend it but forums like these are exactly the places where feedback should be aired without fear of vitriol.
Whether these are the same people who imagine some kind of weird internet relationship with "Heppy" and co. and "up" any post no matter how bland as long as it has a staff name attached is open to debate but personally I would be rather woried about my lack of a life if I started inventing nicknames for people I don't know.

...everyone who contributes here is part of "the clique"? And nothing wrong with that. I was here a while ago, went away for a bit as it was clear I didn't have much in common with the then-prevailing "elders", dropped back in to see what was going on, lurked for a bit, and am now dipping my toes in the water again. I decided that, while not a lot had changed, I enjoyed more than I felt uncomfortable with. I don't think anyone, if they're being honest, can deny that there is a certain deference and even blind loyalty to some contributors - for instance, the treatment of Middlerabbit by many, including Fraser Lewry, was truly shameful, and there is most certainly a sense of knicker-wetting joy whenever D Hepworth or M Ellen pays a visit. We'll all be drowned in the flood if D Baker ever breaks cover! However, I'm filtering out what I find unpalatable, ignoring those posters who I know will get my goat, and sticking to those areas I enjoy. And I'm fairly comfortable with that... so far.

*waits for the almost inevitable ..."and don't call me Shirley"* Go on, you know you want to!

...clap your hands...

...it keeps it nice and exclusive that way.

but what a hateful thread this turned out to be. If the community wasn't fractured before, it is now.

Don't worry, be Heppy

2 or 3 years back I was a regular user of another forum and can only agree with the person above who's posted 'You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet'. What started out as a polite, light-hearted space ended up with threats of legal action, bannings of various posters... It seems to be the nature of the Internet, just remember Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)."

And this (from above) is the single funniest post I've ever seen on here:

"Noticing cliques on an internet forum is nature's way of telling you you should be spending more time with your family."

If you're following people onto Twitter to find out what they're saying about you there, you really need to turn off the computer and go and do something less boring instead...

I think everything has been said on this subject, hasn't it? The blog is eating itself. Let's stop it now for the reasons given by goatboy above.

Picture yourself for a moment in this situation: Let say someone you had never met before was suddenly thinking up cutesy, repulsive nicknames for you. I suppose its vaguely possible that your last attempt to avoid them in a bar failed. But basically, for all intents and purposes, you don't know these people from Adam…

Would you feel flattered by this behaviour? I would suggest, that if your head were screwed on correctly, you would be more likely to think "you sad bastards really need to get a life!" You might even look over your shoulder as you left the office, incase someone wearing mittens and a woolen hat were following you down the road. Trailing shortbread fingers.

I know Leedsboy, I know. Sorry you are right Spartacus Mills, didn't see your post above.

I love this site, but sometimes it all gets a bit much and I have to take a little break. Of all the things that I have no interest in whatsoever, the politics in between members of the Massive and who said what to whom in that thread the other day ranks pretty bloody high. And, as far as I'm concerned, there's only one thing duller than reading about it on here: it's reading about it on Twitter *as well*. At the risk of this sounding like an ultimatum, please do it in DM form or something or (Miranda Richardson voice) I'm going to unfollow the whole bally lot of you.

All I meant was - and I tried to find a nicer way of saying it, I really did - is that I like you all and I'd like to follow you all; but if Twitter just becomes a place to discuss what's going on on the Word site, I think it tends to get a bit tiresome. Of course I can't dictate what people should and shouldn't discuss. But I really like Twitter as (a) somewhere to go when it all gets a bit claustrophobic on here, and (b) somewhere where there's a huge variety of things being discussed. Possibly one because of the other. But hey.

I don't think this thread is doing anyone any good, really.

Sorry for chipping in, I've been trying not to but this statement was a genuine surprise. Still, I'm never going to read it (I use Facebook rather than Twitter) so I don't suppose it matters to me if they do, or if there is a clique as I've never noticed one.
My reaction to the Blog tends to be "that's interesting" "funny" "something musical or otherwise I'd like to investigate further" "I wonder if anyone knows..." or "this isn't for me, I'll try the next thread". Nothing to get worked up over, just an interesting site to be involved with (if that's the right way to put it). There's nothing that's need to be complained about from where I'm sitting. Keep up the good work (and I direct that at both fellow bloggers and Word staff).

Been arguing the toss about Kershaw on another post. Promise I wont mention George Osborne being a twat or suggest to all and sundry that the Beatles may have been a tad overrated.

Drakeygirl - get to work on a sackful of 'Self Appointed Elite' badges and send one to everyone who's prepared to send an S.A.E (if they still make them). A quid each should cover materials and labour?

"Can we not just give it a rest?"

I think we've proved the answer is a resounding, "no".

If anyone needs to talk or feels they may have been affected by any matters discussed in the above post, I'm on twitter waiting for your call!

No really!

Still rattling around like a solipsistic and personified stone in a shoe?

Seriously?

I think this may, by a distance, be the worst thread ever on this site. Worse even the one I did about a fantasy "Human Centipede" involving Morrisey and Richard Thompson. And that was bad.

The idea of a disembodied Greek Chorus lurking on Twitter is a little unsettling and I'd have been far happier not to even know these people even exist but, hey ho. It's a little inhibiting but I'm sure we can all learn to cope.

Please stop this thread now. In the name of Holy Christ!

I joined twitter a few months ago. Just realised that it wasnt for me, so closed my subscription.

Dont feel I am missing anything.

Like cigarettes in prison, up arrows were a finite currency on the WORD blog. The party line was that everybody was supposed to get a taste. In reality the self-appointed Elite had found a way to keep the lion’s share circulating among an exclusive coterie of regular posters.

At one of the earliest WORD gatherings I attended, a senior member of what had become known as The Clique casually stuffed 15 up arrows into my shirt pocket.

“You’re one of us now. Buy yourself a pair of leather trousers.”

“Aren’t you only supposed to give out one up arrow at a time?” I queried naively.

He smiled like a shark, leaning over the table until his face was no more than an inch from my own. I could smell Fraser's home-made petit-pois infused vodka on his breath.

“If you so much as contemplate giving me anything less than five up arrows for a post, I will f**king end you.”

On the WORD blog, a new member called John_From_Swindon queried how my comment “Hell yeah, dude!” could have acquired 50 ups a matter of minutes after it had been posted.

I never saw him on the site again. I was Elite by self-appointment. You didn’t talk to me like that.

An extract from the forthcoming book - From Out Of This Word: The Rise and Fall of the Self-Appointed Word Elite. Available from selected bookshops.

.... we gaze down on the various "cliques" (to paraphrase my mate Will..."What fools these mortals be") with great amusement and a little pity.
As I was saying to one of my samite-clad handmaidens last night as she peeled me a grape.."why can't they just do what they were created to do..post clever and/or interesting stuff?"
"Because you and your mates gave them free will, Sire" she said.
Cheeky cow.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Peace and love

on Tuesday, is that a very special cilque? (thanks Fraser)

I have to agree with the original posting. I'd been a regular poster/contributor to the site from the off, then after one particulary nasty shoeing from all and sundry, I felt enough was enough. I've recently popped back to see what was what, sadly, it's appears to be same as it ever was. Reminds me of the 6th form common room circa 1976, but with less hair.

For someone who has hitherto not posted to say

Hi guys. Have I missed anything?

Always brings the house down...

By the end of 2010 there was a feeling among the Self-Appointed Elite and our backing singers - The Disembodied Greek Chorus - that our problems could be solved by an animal of some sort. We wanted a salt water crocodile. What we ended up with was a goat.

Crocodiles, it turned out, require a lot of specialist care and equipment. Somebody suggested that rather than feeding our enemies to a large carnivorous reptile that would inevitably turn upon its keepers, a goat might provide an amusing distraction to the massive, who by now had grown weary of our decadent ways.

The first action the goat took was to gnaw the corner off a signed vinyl copy of Catch A Fire. Later that evening, having consumed 15 gin and tonics, it ate a valuable Panama hat that had once belonged to one of The Stranglers.

The goat had to die but its demise needed to look like an accident. One plan was to invite Paul Weller to a dinner party in his honour on the pretence of making him a member of the elite. At a given signal one of our number would trip him up, causing him to fall onto the goat who would be crushed under the weight of his heavy soul.

That we would so casually implicate an icon of the British music scene in the murder of an innocent goat signifies the immoral depths that we had sunk to.

Little did I know that, hiding in plain view among the elite, was an even more elite group who were using the goat in ways I could not have possibly imagined*.

*not for sex.

An extract from the forthcoming book - From Out Of This Word: The Rise and Fall of the Self-Appointed Word Elite. Available from selected bookshops.

...and he's written a song about it:

(I'm In The Clique/Todd Rundgren)

...which always reminds me of the only amusing bit in the film '102 Dalmatians'.
Cruella DeVille, shocked by toadying of sidekick: "What kind of sycophant are you?"
Pause.
Sidekick, warily: "What kind of sycophant would you like me to be?"

My 6-year-old didn't laugh, of course, but in the middle of such mind-numbing tripe it shone out like a stream of bat's piss. Which, coincidentally, is what we'll be drinking at the lodge tomorrow.

The historian, David Starkey, could smell an impending regicide from a hundred miles away. Now he was skulking around outside the marble-clad headquarters of the Self-Appointed Word Elite.

Was it possible that he knew of our plan to assassinate the boy Caesar - Joe R - with shards of a broken Belle & Sebastian CD? If so, who had told him, and who else outside of our tight-knit circle of conspirators knew?

Executions within the Self-Appointed Elite had always been carried out by Bob. Nobody knew how he got the job; whether it was offered to him, or if he simply created the position out of thin air. The moment one of us stepped out of line and fell from favour (and eventually every last one of us would fall from favour) it would be Bob who was there to lead us away for the good of the group. We would never be seen or heard from again.

At the time I was having problems of my own. Some f**ker had found out that my real name wasn’t backwards7 and was blackmailing me.

Now Bob was placing a leather-gloved hand firmly on my shoulder and suggesting that we go for "a walk." In desperation I grabbed the first weapon that came to hand. Moments later the pair of us were grappling in the street, force-feeding each other bloody tufts of Thom Yorke’s beard.