...but I think the gratuitous characterisation of an entire profession as murderers is one of the things that Lord Reith would have thought best left to the commercial sector.
I laughed out loud at this when I saw this at the weekend. Yes, of course it's offensive, but it actually is a joke, presumably scripted and certainly delivered with deadpan comic timing, unlike other recent examples.
I wonder how many of the 517 complaints were from Jonathan Ross fans upset by Clarkson making jokes at Ross' expense later in the show?
If it's deemed unsuitable for the hour it went out at, then I wonder who'll get the blame... Clarkson for saying it or the production team for letting it go? Or Mark Thompson?
but my eyebrows were raised by "the lads" propping up the piano with a "pile of porn" if I heard it correctly. Top Gear is not a must watch programme in our household but it is usually quite amusing when I do watch it. However, this did seem to be a step beyond especially at the time it goes out.
... rather than being about killing prostitutes, as if suggesting it was OK to do that.
How many here can remember the anniversary of the murders of the prostitutes? Only those directly involved will, and I cannot see how the BBC can check every flippant remark ever made on a TV programme to see if it may offend some one, or if a particular comment is on the anniversary of a previous event.
If he'd made a gag about lorry drivers in Ipswich, or said 'killing prostitutes is fun' I'd agree he'd have a case to answer, but I just get the distinct impression the tabloid press are going through one of their many "moral outrage" phases.
that will froth at the mouth at how disgusting Ross & Brand's comments were but at the same time print pictures of "Phwoar Georgie on stage with her baps out?"
Gotta say, that made me chuckle. I bet most lorry drivers are Clarkson fans and wouldn't give two hoots.
Think of all the 'catholic priest - therefore paedos' "jokes"/comments there have been on the BBC and there are many many hundreds of thousands of Catholic priests doing great selfless work that have to take that terrible stereotyping.
primarily because he makes a fortune writing books and newspaper columns in which he constantly bemoans the state of the country. Yet, he lives as a tax exile in the Channel Isles. Perhaps if he, and people like him paid their fair share, this land of ours might be a better place to live in.
I am constantly baffled by the number of people I encounter who believe this man should somehow be Prime Minister. We might just as well have John Gaunt or Richard Littlejohn as PM.
merely a rather flippant comment on the rather worrying trend of machismo television. I meant no offence to you or anyone else who enjoys Top Gear. It's just that the presenters remind me of the kind of people who used to kick the crap out of me at school. Especially the short one, who reminds me of the thin, weedy kid who used to hang around with the nutters to try and stop them turning on him.
I haven't seen the programme for years, mainly because their stilted studio conversation is like fingernails down the blackboard to me. That and a totaL lack of interest in cars. I had wondered why I loathed the little one even more than Clarkson, to the extent that I found it very difficult to find sympathy when he had his horendous accident. (I did find some - I'm not a monster, even when faced with the most vexatious of people).
I think you're right, Futurenoir; it's the desperation, the 'please like me' pleading in his rodent eyes, that makes him so hard to watch and impossible to like.
doesn't have enough space to give right wing columnist chance to air their views in say best selling books, tv programmes, talk radio, newspaper columns,dvds, boardgames, solipsistic white blokes are just excluded from the media
.... is this a brainless thread about a brainless joke that relies on a brainless recipient to get a laugh ?
I quite often watch Top Gear with my 12 year old daughter, but thankfully missed this one. I'd be hard put to explain this particular "joke" to her, and I don't think anyone here has shed any light on its value, unless you count "it made me laugh".
in every job in every company who makes a mistake. It was a tasteless remark but so what? No one died, the stock market didn't change, nations didn't go to war and life carried on. Everyone who thinks Jeremy should be fired for a bad taste joke should remember that next time they make some silly, off the cuff remark at work or swap dirty jokes at the pub. You've just deemed it a sacking offence so have the grace to walk and live up to your own values!
...I'm not a Daily Mail reader and I'm really not boiling over with rage, BUT... my problem with the joke is that not only is it not witty, it's NOT FUNNY and, worse still, Mark JF, unlike the kind of remarks you refer to, this was scripted, rehearsed and still NOT FUNNY.
You might not have found it funny but I thought it was hysterical.
To all the Daily Mail readers and those actually boiling over with rage: for f*ck's sake, get a life. Stuff like this is really not important in the grand scheme of things. It's not what's responsible for eroding social values or anything else that gets thrown at the likes of Clarkson, Brand, Ross, et al. The problem with society is that people are too stupid to recognise a joke when they hear one--which is a different thing to actually finding it funny.
Roy - I accept there's a difference between scripted remarks and off the cuff ones. (Which also raises the point about whether Jeremy should be fired or the editor / producer / whoever that passed it.) But - if this was an error of judgement - I still think it's pretty dumb to call for someone's sacking on the grounds of one error. Employment legislation calls for a series of warnings, except in the case of gross misconduct which itself is a tricky one. Scripted or off the cuff, would you expect the sack for one offence?
...it's cross-media reference to the long-running Viz strip 'Laurie Driver' in which the protagonist invevitably murders a prostitute.
THAT is funny as it's part of a long tradition of Viz strips poking fun at media representations of certain social stereotypes,(see also The Thieving Gypsy Bastards, Big Vern, Roger Mellie The Man On The Telly, et al)
of sending to see the headmaster for a ruler over his knuckles or to stand in the corner with a dunce's hat on. Once administered it's over. Another offence and it's the slipper.
Better still put him on the Weakest Link and let Ann Robinson loose on him. That should scare any big naughty schoolboy.
If he'd said 'Some truck drivers are murderers' rather than 'All truck drivers...' then that would have been more factually correct and Lord Leith wouldn't have been able to raise a complaint due to the actual 'fact' part of the statement being partially true... but it would probably have been less funny I guess - I hate to de-construct jokes, let them out in the world and deny everything afterwards in my humble opinion - a world where we cant have freedom of speech is only a small step to a world being run by the chinese govt (hey, sue me!)
I managed to watch the whole thing with my son. He's 10. He didn't ask any questions about murdering prostitutes or porn after the event. I think he was too exhausted from laughing himself stupid and has re-watched the programme several times since last weekend. It's not so much a car programme as a new version of Crackerjack.
We also had a recent run-in with Clarkson and the gang at Top Gear Live. They were happily effing away until the point in the show when the house lights went up for the first time to reveal half the audience below the age of consent. To their credit, there was a seamless improvement in language.
My lad is 10 and loves the show. It is the one program we watch together. There is so little on cars on it, it is basically a light entertainment show. As for Clarkson's 'joke', it was neither funny or controversial.
All it has done is given Angry of Tunbridge Wells a reason to pick up the Parker and write to the Daily bleeding Mail.
As was written somewhere following Sachsgate, all the BBC will be showing soon is ballroom dancing and snooker.
I love Clarkson
But, again, he should get into trouble for this. Bet there's nobody at the BBC who dares say a word to him.
OFFS
Why on earth should he "get into trouble for this"?
"he should get into trouble for this"
Why?
Call me a wimp...
...but I think the gratuitous characterisation of an entire profession as murderers is one of the things that Lord Reith would have thought best left to the commercial sector.
Do you also think that Lord Reith
should therefore have objected to Dave Allen's continuous characterisation of the Catholic priesthood as drunken sadists or buffoons?
I loathe Clarkson
But thought this was a decent gag.
Can't stomach...
.. the dude meself.
Watching this on Sunday...
...I freely admit that I did laugh. At the same time I thought that what he said was unecessary and guaranteed to get him into trouble.
I also rate Clarkson and cherish every new season of Top Gear.
Comedy
I laughed out loud at this when I saw this at the weekend. Yes, of course it's offensive, but it actually is a joke, presumably scripted and certainly delivered with deadpan comic timing, unlike other recent examples.
I wonder how many of the 517 complaints were from Jonathan Ross fans upset by Clarkson making jokes at Ross' expense later in the show?
Complaining is the new rock 'n roll.
Bet it's not scripted
Because if it is and it's in a pre-watershed programme watched by thousands of kids, somebody should get into trouble.
Either way...
If it's deemed unsuitable for the hour it went out at, then I wonder who'll get the blame... Clarkson for saying it or the production team for letting it go? Or Mark Thompson?
All programmes are pre-watershed these days,
courtesy of the interwebby thingamajig.
So should we be looking forward to a future of televisual experiences no stronger than a risque episode of 'Rhubarb and Custard'?
Thousands of kids?
Really. Even if it is pre-watershed do you really think they took it all in. And honestly what kind of punishment would you propose?
Just wondering mind. I personally can't see what all the fuss is all about.
Scripted or not...
...it obviously wasn't live
I only caught the end of the programme
but my eyebrows were raised by "the lads" propping up the piano with a "pile of porn" if I heard it correctly. Top Gear is not a must watch programme in our household but it is usually quite amusing when I do watch it. However, this did seem to be a step beyond especially at the time it goes out.
they are targetting
top gear at kids there's loads of tie in books and top trumps type things so they need to decide which way to go.
As with a lot of things
including Jimmy Carr's entire repetoire...it's nicked from the Viz letters page
"Dear Viz - can I just inform some of your more ignorant readers that not all lorry drivers are murderers. some of them are just rapists"
They then followed this up with a strip entitled 'Laurie Driver HGV: Licence to Kill"
Oh my god
that is soooooo funny. The man's a comic genius. He also has ace taste in music. and clothes.
Good to see the point being missed completely
Ah well, what's next for the media to moralise about?
Dumb question, sorry...
But what's the point being missed?
Just I saw the joke being about lorry-drivers...
... rather than being about killing prostitutes, as if suggesting it was OK to do that.
How many here can remember the anniversary of the murders of the prostitutes? Only those directly involved will, and I cannot see how the BBC can check every flippant remark ever made on a TV programme to see if it may offend some one, or if a particular comment is on the anniversary of a previous event.
If he'd made a gag about lorry drivers in Ipswich, or said 'killing prostitutes is fun' I'd agree he'd have a case to answer, but I just get the distinct impression the tabloid press are going through one of their many "moral outrage" phases.
Thanks
I don't mind the joke, by the way - I'm just a little surprised it was broadcast pre-watershed in the current climate.
What does the six o'clock news do these days?
Bleep out bad words like "murder" and "prostitute"?
Is that the tabloid press version of moral outrage
that will froth at the mouth at how disgusting Ross & Brand's comments were but at the same time print pictures of "Phwoar Georgie on stage with her baps out?"
Lorry drivers and Priests
Gotta say, that made me chuckle. I bet most lorry drivers are Clarkson fans and wouldn't give two hoots.
Think of all the 'catholic priest - therefore paedos' "jokes"/comments there have been on the BBC and there are many many hundreds of thousands of Catholic priests doing great selfless work that have to take that terrible stereotyping.
I hate Clarkson
primarily because he makes a fortune writing books and newspaper columns in which he constantly bemoans the state of the country. Yet, he lives as a tax exile in the Channel Isles. Perhaps if he, and people like him paid their fair share, this land of ours might be a better place to live in.
I am constantly baffled by the number of people I encounter who believe this man should somehow be Prime Minister. We might just as well have John Gaunt or Richard Littlejohn as PM.
These things may be true
And I doubt I'd vote for him if he were up for Prime Minister, but it doesn't preclude him from making good TV. And Top Gear is great TV.
Note: I don't drive, and have very little interest in cars, but still think the show is brilliant.
I have no interest in cars, either
but I do have a degree in psychology. And to me, Top Gear is the most blatant example of small penis compensation television I can think of.
Is that
an accusation?
No, not at all
merely a rather flippant comment on the rather worrying trend of machismo television. I meant no offence to you or anyone else who enjoys Top Gear. It's just that the presenters remind me of the kind of people who used to kick the crap out of me at school. Especially the short one, who reminds me of the thin, weedy kid who used to hang around with the nutters to try and stop them turning on him.
No offence taken, I hope.
No offence taken at all
I simply think the show, at it's best, is extremely funny.
Good call Futurenoir
I haven't seen the programme for years, mainly because their stilted studio conversation is like fingernails down the blackboard to me. That and a totaL lack of interest in cars. I had wondered why I loathed the little one even more than Clarkson, to the extent that I found it very difficult to find sympathy when he had his horendous accident. (I did find some - I'm not a monster, even when faced with the most vexatious of people).
I think you're right, Futurenoir; it's the desperation, the 'please like me' pleading in his rodent eyes, that makes him so hard to watch and impossible to like.
Well put...
... Futurenoir.
Totally dislike Top Gear and its smug presenters.
Not all of us can afford...
...those fancy penis-enhancing treatments offered on the internet.
I've heard
that v1a-gra is pretty good. Just ordered some by sending my bank account details to a nice man in Nigeria.
"He lives as a tax exile in the Channel Isles"
Are you absolutely, 100% SURE about that?
I think it's actually the isle of man
for tax and tax on filming purposes
Indeed...
...it is
Not entirely true.....
I believe he lives just outside Banbury and has a property in the Isle of Man for business registrations etc...(and to mightily piss off ramblers!).
No different to U2, who, I believe, are registered as a Dutch company.
so it's still a tax haven
....
Make the silly bastard
drive headlong into a wall...in a truck...at 56mph.
Oh they have.
I love Clarkson but ...
He's an obnoxious self opinionated arrogant public school boy Tory c**t - apart from that he's OK
That's exactly *why* I love him...
...we obnoxious self opinionated arrogant public school boy Tory c**ts don't get represented on TV by anyone other than Clarkson these days
yeah the media's
doesn't have enough space to give right wing columnist chance to air their views in say best selling books, tv programmes, talk radio, newspaper columns,dvds, boardgames, solipsistic white blokes are just excluded from the media
So not only have lorry drivers
got sitting on their arses and killing prostirtutes to do but now they have to write letters to the Daily Mail and phone the BBC complaints line.
He says these things to get up your nose and hate him. Job done on both sides of the fence there. You'll be watching 'Top Gear' cos you like cars next
It's old hat..
Viz magazine have been running the prostitute/truck drivers gag for nigh on 20 years now...encompasses their peak 1.2 million circulation too.
Where was the ire then from the Mail et al?
Am I alone, or ....
.... is this a brainless thread about a brainless joke that relies on a brainless recipient to get a laugh ?
I quite often watch Top Gear with my 12 year old daughter, but thankfully missed this one. I'd be hard put to explain this particular "joke" to her, and I don't think anyone here has shed any light on its value, unless you count "it made me laugh".
Let's fire everyone
in every job in every company who makes a mistake. It was a tasteless remark but so what? No one died, the stock market didn't change, nations didn't go to war and life carried on. Everyone who thinks Jeremy should be fired for a bad taste joke should remember that next time they make some silly, off the cuff remark at work or swap dirty jokes at the pub. You've just deemed it a sacking offence so have the grace to walk and live up to your own values!
You know...
...I'm not a Daily Mail reader and I'm really not boiling over with rage, BUT... my problem with the joke is that not only is it not witty, it's NOT FUNNY and, worse still, Mark JF, unlike the kind of remarks you refer to, this was scripted, rehearsed and still NOT FUNNY.
In YOUR opinion
You might not have found it funny but I thought it was hysterical.
To all the Daily Mail readers and those actually boiling over with rage: for f*ck's sake, get a life. Stuff like this is really not important in the grand scheme of things. It's not what's responsible for eroding social values or anything else that gets thrown at the likes of Clarkson, Brand, Ross, et al. The problem with society is that people are too stupid to recognise a joke when they hear one--which is a different thing to actually finding it funny.
Yes, but
Roy - I accept there's a difference between scripted remarks and off the cuff ones. (Which also raises the point about whether Jeremy should be fired or the editor / producer / whoever that passed it.) But - if this was an error of judgement - I still think it's pretty dumb to call for someone's sacking on the grounds of one error. Employment legislation calls for a series of warnings, except in the case of gross misconduct which itself is a tricky one. Scripted or off the cuff, would you expect the sack for one offence?
I'm actually not that interested...
...in the "to sack or not to sack" issue. I'd just like some analysis from someone about what makes it funny for them.
It's funny because...
...it's cross-media reference to the long-running Viz strip 'Laurie Driver' in which the protagonist invevitably murders a prostitute.
THAT is funny as it's part of a long tradition of Viz strips poking fun at media representations of certain social stereotypes,(see also The Thieving Gypsy Bastards, Big Vern, Roger Mellie The Man On The Telly, et al)
Did you know that Guy Ritchie....
Cast the main protaganists in both Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels AND Snatch purely based on the characters in the Viz strip "Cockney Wanker"?
+
+
+
++
+
+
+
++
*NB - This may or may not be true.
But might as well be...
It's not funny
but its not worth discussing. Clarkson pushes it a bit but never really goes beyond ridiculing political correctness.
He needs the equivalent
of sending to see the headmaster for a ruler over his knuckles or to stand in the corner with a dunce's hat on. Once administered it's over. Another offence and it's the slipper.
Better still put him on the Weakest Link and let Ann Robinson loose on him. That should scare any big naughty schoolboy.
A BIT OF RE-PHRASING PERHAPS?
If he'd said 'Some truck drivers are murderers' rather than 'All truck drivers...' then that would have been more factually correct and Lord Leith wouldn't have been able to raise a complaint due to the actual 'fact' part of the statement being partially true... but it would probably have been less funny I guess - I hate to de-construct jokes, let them out in the world and deny everything afterwards in my humble opinion - a world where we cant have freedom of speech is only a small step to a world being run by the chinese govt (hey, sue me!)
I liked it
I'm one more for the it-was-funny-leave-him-alone squad. People are so eager to be offended these days, I don't understand the attraction.
I say!
I think you'll find that lorry-driving is a trade, David.
Yoof
I managed to watch the whole thing with my son. He's 10. He didn't ask any questions about murdering prostitutes or porn after the event. I think he was too exhausted from laughing himself stupid and has re-watched the programme several times since last weekend. It's not so much a car programme as a new version of Crackerjack.
We also had a recent run-in with Clarkson and the gang at Top Gear Live. They were happily effing away until the point in the show when the house lights went up for the first time to reveal half the audience below the age of consent. To their credit, there was a seamless improvement in language.
100% right
My lad is 10 and loves the show. It is the one program we watch together. There is so little on cars on it, it is basically a light entertainment show. As for Clarkson's 'joke', it was neither funny or controversial.
All it has done is given Angry of Tunbridge Wells a reason to pick up the Parker and write to the Daily bleeding Mail.
As was written somewhere following Sachsgate, all the BBC will be showing soon is ballroom dancing and snooker.
all the BBC will be showing soon is ballroom dancing and snooker
... whereas at the moment ....