Entertainment For Lively Minds
"They're only the band the Beatles could have been!"
Posted by Paolo Meccano on 17 November 2011 - 4:07pm.
A recent comment on Another Thread caused me to wonder about music fans who appreciate one single aspect of an artist's career, but in an inverse of the prevailing view, e.g. preferring Wings to the Beatles.
I suppose there must have been fans of the Style Council who never cared for the Jam and those who liked Robbie Williams but wouldn't have been seen dead listening to Take That, etc.
So, will any of you happily confess to a similarly topsy-turvy view of the musical world?
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Floyd
much better once Syd wandered off
Yes!
This is the right answer.
Also, Tom Waits did all his best stuff before the missus turned his head and made him make music out of old bedsprings and bathtubs.
Not better.
Just different.
( Floyd I mean )
I half agree with you
I think Pink Floyd with Syd were shite, but nowhere near as bad as the post Syd Pink Floyd, who to my ears sound utterly sterile, mostly as a result of Gilmour's guitar playing. To me, they're the ultimate 'white man's overbite' band.
I do love 'The Madcap Laughs' album though - for me, it's the only piece of music I love that has come out of anyone associated with Pink Floyd.
Both Floyds
have their moments but I generally prefer the ones with Syd in them. It's his voice mainly. That and his genuine strangeness.
Yes, 'Madcap' is mostly lovely although I do wish they'd kept those 'outtakes' off Side Two. They do the poor man no favours whatsover.
Oh but its great to make grand sweeping statements
I like Pipers and even went to a recreation of the "Games For May" show but with much of Syd's solo stuff I just wish that someone, like Sinead O'Connor at the Dylan tribute gig, had put a friendly arm round his shoulder and led him away into the shadows as I find it akin to rubbernecking at car crashes
Run to the hills
I went right off Iron Maiden when they replaced Paul D'Ianno with Bruce Dickinson, his nasal whinnying makes me want to throw things.
For those about to rock...
Stop listening to AC/DC after 1980. They managed to pull together Bacl in Black, but after Bon Scott left it just wasn't the same.
I like that - "Bon Scott left"
However it could be argued that this wasn't exactly of his own volition.
er, vomition,
perhaps...?
Oh dear.
perhaps...
...I could be accused of a poor choice of words. Oops.
The Jam/The Style Council
I love - I mean adore The Jam, but the first two years of The Style Council is my favourite Weller period. I was 14 when Speak Like A Child came out, which was the right age to adopt a band and make it your own I guess. And so I'd say 83-85 was Weller at his absolute best. Not quite in keeping with the OP but close enough.
Half of Cafe Blue...
... is amongst the very best stuff he's done.
The more piano-based Parisian half, that is.
You can take your drum machine oriented light soul and shove it, Weller.
Drum Machines
I love drum machines!
Me too...
In fact I must finish rebuilding that Roland CR-68 that's currently in bits.
Never really liked The Jam
and still don't get all that excited by them, but I loved The Style Council.
Interestingly, I took part in a radio discussion today with a Cliff fan who professed that she quite liked the Beatles until they 'went wrong'. By that she meant 'Strawberry Fields Forever'.
Oh my parents would go along with that one
They had all the LPs and singles up to that point (though they did weaken and buy the Magical Mystery tour EP with the booklet - thinking back that music and booklet were probably my way 'in' to the Fantabulosas as a small child)
My Mum...
...thought Rubber Soul was a step too far and gave up then.
My folks too
She Loves You was the first 45 I remember (age 3) and my folks bought most of their singles up to Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields. When we played that one we all agreed it just sounded weird. So from around 7 years to 10 years old The Beatles were absent from my life (apart from TOTP)until sometime around 1970 I started buying my own records.
So my first Beatle buys were Instant Karma, My Sweet Lord etc.
Cafe Blue...
... is about as Parisian as a Greggs' Cheese & Onion pasty.
Brave, brave move by Weller.
Called throwing half your fanbase in the bin. Just 12 months after releasing The Gift, Town Called Malice, Precious, Bitterest Pill, Beat Surrender and a sold out tour of megadomes, you jack it all in and release a proper, proper REAL jazz odyssey album.
Radiohead tried the same trick with Kid A but didn't have the clothes, DC Lee or the sheer elan in which Weller did it and Spinal Tap were knackered after they were billed below the puppet show.
Style Council over The Jam
Just. I was 12 when the Jam split.
Wanted is a fantastic lost pop record, slap bass aside.
My Internet Twin
=Mr Loaf.
Top miming, Paul
Take out the terrible synth, the slap bass, Mick Talbots haircut, Mr Wellers stupid necklace and you've got a point
The Archers
An everyday tale of country folk mixed up in prostitution.
The synth, brass stabs, drum programming....the lyrics and Talbot wearing a hat save this. Almost.
The Style Council - Life At A Top Peoples Health Farm on MUZU.TV
Love Wanted,
It Didn't Matter, TSC version of Promised Land, the piano side of Cafe Blue(the other side is a little ropey), the whole of Our Favourite Shop, all of the lite soul (to me it was just good modern soul, influenced by DC) even the wedge haircuts, tomfoolery and wallabees were pretty good.
But I love the jam as well so this doesn't qualify.
Ferry
My Mum loves a Bryan Ferry ballad (and was disgusted when she heard John Lennon ruin Jealous Guy), but hates Roxy Music.
I do like Wings
Some great pop songs. In some ways I do prefer them to the Beatles. That said, Ringo is my favourite Beatle, so what do I know?
Downloaded this a while ago, played it LOADS since
(Photograph - Ringo Starr)
I love that
But I really love this:
You might also like this ...
George and Ringo made the best two HJH solo albums
All Things Must Pass and Ringo.
'Wings Greatest' is a fantastic record...
and I include Mull of Kintyre in that description.
You know what?
I prefer solo Morrissey to The Smiths. There. I've said it.
If I am honest too...
...Vauxhall & I is my number one Smiths/Moz record. In fact, as we all love charts:
1. Vauxhall & I
2. Strangeways
3. Your Arsenal
4. The Smiths
Hear here
And here's my version of the chart:
1. Vauxhall & I
2. Bona Drag
3. Your Arsenal
4. Beethoven Was Deaf
5. Rank
6. Hatful of Hollow
7. Meat is Murder
8. The Smiths
Sacrilegious I know
No, sacrilege would be having...
...Ringleaders of the Tormented at number one and Years of Refusal at two.
Sacrilege or profound deafness.
Not just me then
Thought they were utter pubrockingly awful
Years of Refusal
Actually pretty decent I thought. I mean its no Kill Uncle, but up there.
Me too.
Things might have been different if I'd been old enough to have been a Smiths fan, though.
Well
The thing is, I was just old enough, but once Moz hit his stride, I found his solo stuff just as affecting as the old Smiths stuff, the albums more coherent and the material just less arch and knowing.
Having said that, my top 10 Morrissey and Smiths songs would probably have a lot more Smiths in it.
Don't get me started....
Too late.... off top of my head, and in no particular order other than Everyday Is Like Sunday is at number one:
Everyday Is Like Sunday
The Never-Played Symphonies
Paint a Vulgar Picture
National Front Disco
A Rush and a Push and the Land Is Ours
Half a Person (TWWL version)
What Difference Does it Make?
There Is A Light
Jeane
The Hand That Rocks the Cradle
S+M 7+3
But... I cannot choose one song from Vauxhall & I cos I cannot separate any of them.
Whereas....
...for me, the albums list would be:
1) The Queen Is Dead
2) Strangeways
3) The Smiths
4) Singles (it works really well as an album on its own terms)
5) Hatful of Hollow
Moz, as much as I've loved him, doesn't enter the top 5 on his own. That said - songs:
1) That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore
2) There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
3) How Soon Is Now
4) Everyday Is Like Sunday
5) Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me
6) Suedehead
7) I Know It's Over
8) Hand In Glove
9) This Charming Man
10) The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get
The order of those could probably change, but they're the songs. Everyday Is Like Sunday was the first time I was aware of the existence of Morrissey. It was on Now! 12. I was ten.
Wings...
...the programme for deluxe edition Macca/Wings CDs over the next three years is staggering. One of our number sent me a schedule/breakdown offlist sourced from EMI - something like 40 multi-CD/DVD sets. I suggested a thread of 'wonder what's going to be on that, then?' variety be started...
From EMI?
But Paul moved his whole catalog out of EMI a few years ago and over to Hear Music/Concord. Why would EMI know his reissue plans? Not being argumentative, I just find that puzzling. I did read he's supposed to reissue Ram next year (YES! my absolute favorite McCartney solo record) and also that Venus and Mars and Wings Over America would be reissued in 2012 but that's all I've read.
I would never pick Wings over the Beatles. But Wings did produce some great pop songs. It's a very bizarre catalog in many ways which is what makes it fun and unpredictable.
Edited to add: I just realized what my contrarian position is: I think Ram is the best solo album by an ex-Beatle, better than All Things Must Pass and better than Plastic Ono Band (or Imagine).
Yes, just checked...
....our colleague/fellow-poster did indeed say EMI. I don't want to name him just in case he's an EMI employee or somesuch!
But I don't suppose there's any harm in posting the list:
The Paul McCartney Archive Collection release schedule 2010 - 2016:
> 1. Band On The Run (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 2. McCartney (2 CD's 1 CD)
> 3. McCartney II (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 4. Ram (3 CDs, 1 DVD)
> 5. Venus And Mars (2 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 6. Wings At The Speed Of Sound (2 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 7. Wings Over America (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 8. Wide Prairie -- Linda McCartney (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 9. Wild Life (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 10. Red Rose Speedway (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 11. London Town (2 CD's 1 DVD)
> 12. Back To The Egg (2 CD's 1 DVD) (probably the Back To The Egg TV
> Special)
> 13. Wings Live 1979 (*** NEW TITLE) (2 CD's 1 DVD) (Probably Glasgow audio
> and Hammersmith DVD)
> 14. Tug Of War (2 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 15. Pipes Of Peace (2 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 16. Give My Regards To Broad Street (3 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 17. Press To Play (4 CD's 1 DVD)
> 18. Choba B CCCP & Prince's Trust Birthday Party (2 CDs, 1 DVD)
> 19. McGear, Holly Days, "Whippets," "Country Hams and Surprises" (4 CD's)
> 20. Flowers In The Dirt (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 21. Tripping The Live Fantastic (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 22. Unplugged (2 CD's 1 DVD)
> 23. Off The Ground (3 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 24. Paul Is Live (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 25. The Fireman Vol 1 & 2 (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 26. Oobu Joobu, Liverpool Sound Collage, Daumier's Law and "Crazy Stuff" (3
> CD's, 1 DVD)
> 27. Flaming Pie (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 28. Run Devil Run (2 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 29. Driving Rain (2 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 30. Back In The US / World (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 31. Chaos And Creation In The Backyard (2 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 32. Memory Almost Full (2 CDs, 1 DVD)
> 33. Electric Arguments (3 CD's, 1 DVD)
> 34. Liverpool Oratorio (3 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 35. Standing Stone (3 CD's 2 DVD's)
> 36. Working Classical / A Leaf (2 CDs, 1 DVD)
> 37. Ecce Cor Meum (2 CDs, 1 DVD)
> 38. The Studio Outtakes: 1970 - 1989 (*** NEW TITLE) (4 CD's)
> 39. The Studio Outtakes: 1990 - 2014 (*** NEW TITLE) (4 CD's)
> 40. The Rude Studio Recordings 1970 - 1997 (*** NEW TITLE) (4 CD's)
> 41. The Demos 1960 - 1979 (*** NEW TITLE) (4 CD's)
> 42. The Demos 1980 - 2016 (*** NEW TITLE) (4 CD's)
> 43. "The rare live recordings, soundchecks and rehearsals" (4 CD's)
Well,
I'll certainly buy 'Ram'. Maybe even 'Venus and Mars' too.
I have already bought 'Band on the Run' about six times.
The set of recordings from his Rude Studio years
should be very interesting.
Ah but, you'd probably be...
...down to your last fiver by then!
just imagine how many M*jo Macca covers and exclusive interviews/10-page reappraisals there'll be in the next few years. it'll be one every three months, practically - increasingly ludicrous, too:
"Macca Speaks! Press To Play: his Great Lost Masterpiece!"
4-disk Press To Play reissue!?
Jeeze. Getting through the one disc was hard enough.
For the diehards, I guess
Sometimes I don't understand why artists don't just let their weakest work disappear. Why, for example, would Yoko reissue last year the hot mess that was Lennon's Sometime in New York City? It can't have sold well. But maybe someone somewhere wants to listen to embarrassing agitprop and outdated politics.
Then again, I read a blog post not long ago from a well-respected music blogger who claimed that, other than the title track, Press to Play was a strong album. Go figure.
Oh my
I read somewhere that not all of those would be CD releases -- some would be digital only and offered only through McCartney's web site.
At any rate, at the pace he's reissuing these, he expects to live a looooonnnng time. I definitely want Ram. And Wild Life, too. Maybe Venus and Mars. I'd give a pass to all of his 80s stuff. I don't have Flowers in the Dirt so that one might be on my list. And I'd like the early Fireman stuff, too, since I've heard it but don't own it. And, depending what is on them, maybe the Studio Outtakes.
I wonder what...
...is planned for the 2DVDs with 'Wild Life'? Did they do 40 minute versions of 'Bip Bop' on Swedish TV or suchlike?
That list is ridiculous.....
.....and I love the guy.
Remember 'Penny Lane', Paul?
Less Is More.
I ask you, buying 4-CDs of 'Press To Play'!
Like buying four Chelsea season tickets.
Mahavishnu Orchestra....
much preferred them once Jan Hammer left....
Oh how we laughed....
Now you're...
...being silly... :-D
Tin Machine
Are better than any/all of Bowie's 80s output. Revisit - you'll be surprised
Definitely
Dug out Tin Machine I a few weeks back, its pisses all over Tonight/Never Let Me Down/Black Tie Shite Noise
PiL
Better than The Pistols shocker
Yep
You're dead right - though I don't know how controversial that one is. I realised when I had everything into iTunes how much of his music I had, a HUGE talent. PiL never had the sheer impact of 'Pretty Vacant' on ToTP (I was 14 and just the right age for it) but then not many things ever have.
I preferred XTC with their original drummer, that's my contribution
John Lydons best ever vocal was...
With leftfield.
That is a very good shout.
Open Up is an incredible track.
I like Pearl Jam
But I like Mother Love Bone better. And Brad
The Firm
are miles better than Zep!
Hashtag Talkingcompletebolllocks Hashtag receivedblowtoheadearlier
The Honeydrippers, surely...?
...
Gabriel after Genesis
Not saying that no Genesis ever hit my spot, but for me Peter Gabriel is far, far better better solo.
I prefer Paul Simon alone to And Garfunkel too.
And me on both counts
Eno is better solo than in Roxy Music.
Vangelis was better without Jon.
This one might cause some argument: Richard Thompson better solo than in Fairport.
*pauses for consideration*
No opinion on Jon and Vangelis, but otherwise
Yes, you're right.
Looking forward to the new Danny Goffey album, too.
Sabrina
was definitely the fittest of Charlie's Angels.
Although I'm not aware she made any recordings.
Keith Emerson
Love The Nice but wouldn't give house room to ELP.
Paul Rodgers.
Free are IMHO one of the best UK bands EVER, but I wouldn't give you tuppence for Bad Company
Does Foo Fighters
better than Nirvana count, cos I think they are.
Mercury Rev
The early, rockier albums like 'Yerself is Steam' are IMO much better than the later, celebrated albums like 'Deserters' Songs' .
And Sonic Youth's best work was done in the 1980s.
Van Der Graaf Generator/Peter Hammill
Although this is one the greatest songs ever...Refugees
It may not be as great as this one...Porton Down
Fleetwood Mac
with Peter Green – hard rocking blues played to perfection
with Buckingham Nicks – snooze-worthy soft rock with all the sharp edges removed
You could almost say the same
about the HJHs pre-and post-Pete Best.
An interesting theory
but I doubt it would stand up in court.
You could -
if you were a numpty.
That's not controversial, though.
As far as I can tell, that's the critical/"cognoscenti" orthodoxy, isn't it?
I'm the other way. Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac = yawn. "Rumours" and "Tusk" = absolutely amazing records.
But then, for me, blues-rock is the most powerful sedative known to man.
Are we supposed
to be controversial?
Nobody told me.
OK, yeah, wrong word. Sorry.
The OP was asking for a "topsy-turvy view of the musical world", not controversial. My mistake. But I think my point's the same, regardless.
In terms of success
if not critical acclaim, the Buckingham Nicks version of Mac have it all over Peter Green and his denim-clad men. So it's kind of topsy turvy in that respect.
It's a rare situation, isn't it? Only the original drummer and bassist remain (plus, arguably, Christine McVie who was there or thereabouts from the second album) thus making it possible for the band to metamorphose into something utterly different from how they started out.
How lucky (for them) that they were able to keep the name, too.
A pedant writes...
John McVie wasn't the original bassist - although, fairly obviously, he was the player that they wanted when they put the band together.
A truly topsy-turvy view would be to posit that the Bob Welch-era Mac were better than either the Peter Green or Lindsey Buckingham editions. Much as I'd love to be able to honestly say that, I can't :-)
I think that's
a fairly harsh bit of pedantry considering he was absent for only a matter of a few weeks. Bob Brunning played on just one album track, both sides of the first F.Mac single and filled in for a few gigs, while McVie prevaricated about leaving John Mayall.
And most importantly the track titled Fleetwood Mac was taped months before the band was officially formed and featured Fleetwood, McVie and Green recording as The Bluesbreakers.
The Fleetwood Macs
I rather like this
and am quite partial to this
all in spite of this
Definitely
agree..Tin Machine over Dave's 80's output.. Both albums have some really good songs and live they were killer..specialy as he'd dropped the beard by then..
The Macca re-issues - When I'm 84
Following on from the Macca re-issue list somewhere above it occurred to me that, if they put out 3 a year, then Mr Thumbs Aloft would be well into his 80's by the time they get to the end of the releases!!!!!
Thin Lizzy..
the original trio, with Eric Bell, never quite nailed it on record but were a terrific live band with good songs and a young and hungry Lynott, much more lovable than the classic quartet line-up.
Used to open their set with a blistering power trio version of the Dr. Who theme. Damn, they were hot.
Let's remind ourselves, Decmeister...
...TL, live in a European TV studio in 1973:
Y'boy'ye..
that'll do nicely.
Interesting that no one has
Interesting that no one has mentioned which version of The Rolling Stones they prefer over the others. I like the Mick Taylor years version the best meself.
The 'real' Rolling Stones
are the band that Brian started. That opinion is purely because of my age and the fabulous visual imprint seared into my pre-teen brain. The band with Mick Taylor made the best albums and are the best live outfit. Personally, I have never accepted Ronnie Wood as being a 'true' member of the band. Neither did Mick and Keith, apparently, as they kept the poor sod on a wage for long enough. This incarnation of the Stones are a fairly dire live band as Wood and Richards are both basically rhythm guitarists IMHO.
Faces both small and.....not so small
While I dearly love the Small Faces, I must admit to loving the Faces just a bit more. Probably because I saw them live and loved their good time party approach to performance. And I collected all their LPs as they were released, and the Rodders albums from that period too. Which of course featured a few Faces on 'em. On a diverse but connected subject, can I also mention that I prefer Ronnie Wood's playing in the Faces to his playing in the Stones? Now there's a topic for consideration.....who sounded better in the less famous band they were in before they joined the megaband?