Intelligent Life On Planet Rock
They weren't punk were they?
Posted by Gav Leonard on 21 September 2009 - 7:13pm.
The recent punk thread has got me thinking. I've been reading a lot around punk at the moment, I was -5 in 1977 and you need to catch up with these things. Although it's such a vague idea of a musical genre, just for the fun of it, I wondered who the Word Massive think were/are punk and who ain't. Let the accusations of Sell-Outtery and Bandwagoneering begin.
Just to get you started, Sting's not Punk.
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Why would Sting be punk?
When The Police's first album came out it was all over bar the gobbing.
I was just watching a documentary
from a while back where Costello and Sting pop up us talking heads throughout, both of whom were included by some writers in the punk movement, and both of whom seem a little uneasy about discussing the idea of punk. Costello gave the impression that he found Stiff's idea of rebranding him as 'Elvis' a bit too counter-culture, while Gordon and for that matter young Bono Vox appear to be enjoying the reflected light that has fallen upon them.
The question is not 'who was punk' but
'what was punk?'. On that basis I'd say any band (1976-77) that you (or your cousin Kevin) saw live but which never appeared on TV or in the charts was punk. Everything else was a showbiz sellout.
Stiff Little Fingers, Scritti Polloti,
PiL & The Buzzcocks are all not punk by this logic. I'm sorry but this idea would burst my tiny mind.
Certainly not
Except for the Buzzcocks, who were There When It Counted.
According to the media of 78
just about anyone who had a guitar, attitude and was aged under 22 (except The Stranglers) was classed as Punk.
Tish & Pish I say.
There are so many variants of "Punk" that it is virtually impossible to classify easily
As far as I'm aware, Punk lasted about 8 to 14 months from late 76 to late 77/early 78.
Anything else was 'inspired by Punk' (hate that term) or New Wave (hate that term too).
As far as I'm concerned, Punk was a reaction to what was viewed as safe & cosy music or what was seen as musical wanking.
With reference to the thread Punk Wars - Who Won? No Score Draw!
Who was Punk - Damned, Pistols, Clash, Buzzcocks, anyone who released a loud record with guitars in 77.
Who wasn't - Abba
Boston released a loud album with...
..guitars in 77..so did Aerosmith.
Good Point
Didn't think it through, did I?
OK - "released a record in 77, with a guitar, may not have been that proficient - embracing the whole "Do It Yourself" ethic. In my opinion Steve Jones, Mick Jones, Brain James et al were perfectly proficient players.
Some of the Punk Bandwagon stuff that came later ...
But, but, but...
The DIY approach to music distribution, the political anger, the deconstruction of contemporary popular music and the destruction of that which was created in their wake! Are these men not punks? The defence rests.
This should be up next to Archie's.
Looks a bit daft down here.
My starter for ten...
Punk...
Pistols
Clash
Buzzcocks
Damned
Stiff Little Fingers
Alternative TV
Adverts
Not Punk...
Stranglers
Generation X
Jam
Boomtown Rats
Undertones
But note - this is not a value judgement one way or the other. For instance - The Undertones and The Jam were wonderful. But they were not punks.
First 'Punk' band I saw
were The Stranglers at Newcastle University in '77. Quickly realised they were the Bill Haley of Punk. I was 19, they looked about 90. Next band I saw were the Damned, very enjoyable, but were supported by a band called The Police, who we bottled off smartish like. Next got tickets for 'Anarchy' tour at the City Hall but Council banned them. Then saw Clash, Subway Sect, Slits, Buzzcocks on same bill again in Newcastle. Then saw Iggy supported by Vibrators in City Hall, half empty but with Bowie playing keyboards. Then went to see The Jam play Seaburn Town Hall or something, freezing cold and got a kicking from bikers outside for me troubles. Then saw Pistols as SPOTS playing at the Quayside in Newcastle. Who were punks? We were, for going to see the buggers in the first place, and getting your face smashed in for wearing a dog collar. Great auld times tho', wouldn't swap them for anything. The strange thing is that when I heard Eddie and the Hot Rods 'Live at the Marquee' EP and The Ramones' LP they gave me a rush of energy better than any other thing I'd felt. I think that more than anything is at the heart of 'Punk' "I can do this, me." More often than not you couldn't, either due to cluelessless or stage fright; but that home recording ethos is back, albeit in numbers that are mind-numbing. Still, the one sperm that swims through might be worth the wait. I salute all the other millions tho, "punk' or not.
well said
dunno if it's punk to vote - but have one anyway
1-2-3-4
You said it. Give that man/woman a cigar. He mentioned the R word. You start with the brothers and work your way down. On the original Anarchy Tour The Ramones were going to be the headlining act. Perhaps Malcy got a bit up his arse or whatever but it never happened. Pity.
After that UK punk meant bondage trousers, safety pins and spikey hair. The chaps were just as bad. Unfortunately that then became the norm.
Tom Robinson Band..
..championed by Julie Burchill at the time..sounded like Kevin Ayers backed by Free (So, of course I liked 'em)
Punk Not Punk
'ver Wire would argue that they were not Punk Rock.
Their debut effort Pink Flag sounds 'punky' and has lots of short, thrashy songs but as their baritone-voiced bass player Graham Lewis rather wonderfully points out, it also features such "volcanic epics" as 'Reuters' and the title track. Had Tiswas picked up on 'I am the Fly' for their 'dying fly' dance things could have been very different....
Here they are still not being a punk band in 2009 (very good it is too)
Jah Wobble's PiL would staunchly deny they were anything to do with Punk (or music, or anything else for that matter)
Indeed, try doing the pogo to this (absolutely stunning) clip from the Whistle Test.
Scritti were definitely not a punk band. They had the whole squatney/DiY thing going on but their early waxings have more in common with Robert Wyatt or Henry Cow than Sham 69.
Exhibit A:
Could never be doing
with punk. All hair gel, bad grammar and ricketts themed trousers, with a surfeit of Phlegm. I'm more of a Kaftan in a smoky basement kind of cat. Sorry. However, I do like Television and Talking Heads, but they weren't punk were they ? New Wave I believe it was.
Weren't Television Proto-Punk?
Richard Hell could probably lay claim to having 'been there when in counted' though I would guess that Verlaine cancels him out somewhat with all that guitar-playing ability and what not. That said, Marquee Moon doesn't sound like a punk album.
Too young first time around
but retrospectively it's really only the American stuff that does anything for me. Apart from Magasine and XTC, not really punk either in my book, I don't like the UK stuff. I think it was a case of the baby and the bathwater when it came to any ability or intelligence with most 'classic' British punk. It also bequethed an unfortunate year zero inverted snobbery which still persists in some quarters. Luckily, it's not quite the hegemony it once was, and you can now mention Van Der Graaf Generator or the Mahavsishnu without a petulant uninformed response. It's easy to forget how reviled the HJH were for many a year, and the gradual thaw only allowed back in the later works and thus continued to unfairly malign the early pop genius.
An utterly necessary spring clean at best, a form of blinkered musical snobbery at it's very worst.
Everyone had to speed up their songs though
Listen to early 'Any Trouble', for instance.
Later re-recorded many of them (e.g. Playing Bogart) at a normal speed.
Fashion, Pah !