Entertainment For Lively Minds
The Wire poll (SPOILERS AHEAD)
Posted by Albert Edward on 30 July 2009 - 6:59pm.
Time for another poll. This one with two votes, please. First for your favourite and second your least favourite series of The Wire. Please make it clear which is which.
As with Revolver I’ll wait till interest in voting wanes then tot up the final scores. Here’s a reminder of the series….
Series One (the investigation begins)
Series Two (the one set at the docks)
Series Three (county hall, Stringer Bell, Hamsterdam)
Series Four (schools)
Series Five (serial killer)
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Hamsterdam
Wasn't that Series Three?
Anyway...
Favourite: Series Four
Least Favourite: Series Two
Won't explain why due to the risk of spoilers!
Edit: Just asked Mrs W - her least favourite was Series One (took her a while to get into it) and her favourite was Series Two (the one that grabbed her attention). Make of that what you will!
Oops!
Amended, thanks!
Series 4 the best
The perfect storm of plot and acting (especially from the younger actors). Wonderful, wonderful stuff.
The weakest: probably series 2, mainly due to the annoying brother, Jimmy was it? (he went on to be the annoying driver of the Humvee in Generation Kill), of the docker who got in wid da Greeks.
It was still a bloody brilliant piece of TV though.
Ziggy
Ugh.
Ziggy
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Ziggy...
worst actor/most unbelievable character in the whole series.
.....
Best: Season 3
Worst: 2
What's wrong with 2?
Best - Series 3
Weakest (I can't use worst, because it would suggest it's bad) - S. 5
Does anyone know how...
I can alter the title to alert people to the possibility of spoilers?
Just click on it
If you're signed in, as the author you'll get the edit tab.
Done it, thanks, Mr V
.
Another for 4
As for the least, probably 5, because it's the only one that wouldn't really detract from the rest if you lost it (well, apart from That Event, which was pretty much a given anyway - you can assume it without really needing to see it happen).
Just love all of them...
In order most to least:
1 (never feel that impact again), 3 (Carcetti steals the show, but everything else is brilliant too), 2 (the Greek awesomely scary), 4 (I have taught in the inner city - bit too close to home at times), 5 (OK, I am halfway thru & might revise my opinion, but I'm finding it hard to believe in... Still great though).
Controversial, but...
Series Four is the best, then Series Two.
But, in a perfect world, we shouldn't really break it up when it all works so well together as a whole. And yet, perversely, I choose those two because they work so well independently of and within the bigger picture.
Sorry, Lucas
I need a worst from you.
Whoops
At the risk of annoying you, I'm tempted to say 3. But I won't. I'm going to say that 5 is the weakest - even though I like it a lot. No. No. I'm sticking to my guns. 3 is the worst. Sorry, Albert.
Your vote for 3 is counted...
Even though no way is three the worst.
Two is the worst.
Two
is the second best. But let's not scrap.
425
Series 4 best (pipping 3 - Stringer Bell is amazing)
Then 2.
5 is the worst. The serial killer thing was silly.
Best Series 4
Worst series 5. Serial killer storyline didn't sit right with McNulty.
Best 4. The young actors were amazing
Least best was 5, didn't they run out of money? Anyroad the newspaper office didn't come to life enough for me and felt a tad pompous. Still great though and worth rewatching.
new
I have to agree with the majority on series 4 being the best and 5 as the weakest. Snoop,Chris and Marlo must be the scariest thugs I have seen on the box. In fact thinking about 5 it is only the serial killer plot that relegates it to least favourite as the rest of it is excellent.
I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase
Best: Series 4. No doubt.
Least best: 5.
Series 2 was testing at times (mainly due to Ziggy - though the actor played a very similar character in "Generation Kill" who I quite liked).
I think the docks/dockers should have been a little more closely woven into series 3-5. It felt a little as though series 2 had dipped in the ratings, so they went back to Stringer and pals. Probably not, but that's how it came across to me.
Series 4 was amazingly powerful - I've urged all my teaching colleagues to see it, even if they don't watch the rest.
Sorry to be part of the crowd, but:
Best: 4 (closely followed by 3 for me)
Worst: 5 (but still great. It's all relative).
Orwellesque
4 good, 2 bad.
Series 4, I could really empathise with the kids (not that I went to a Baltimore inner city school, but the social dynamics of the school seemed universal). The 'pawns in the game' montages of the final episode of each series are all powerful pieces, but series 4's was by far the most affecting for me.
Series 2 just seemed a step away from series 1. Most of the new characters were either irritating (I'm looking at you, Ziggy) or unsympathetic. Still good though.
The serial killer almost screwed up series 5, but all the other carnage involving long running characters meant almost every episode left me stunned.
I'm only half way through season 3
But I thought I'd say that I really enjoyed series 2, contrary to what people are saying here. Personally I warmed to the dock characters especially Ziggy - wouldn't want to spend a day with him, but he seemed like a good kid who just went off the rails a bit.
Series 3 is going well, it'll be interesting to see how Hamsterdam turns out. And I've been looking forward to season 4 ever since I knew what it was about.
It's like picking my least favourite child...
...or would be, if I had more than one. I had no problems with series 2, Ziggy wasn't particularly irritating, and the desperation of the dying dockyards made for a powerful storyline.
So I'll say 4 for the best and 5 for the least satisfying, if only for the serial killer and the fact it was over too soon...
Here is the vote from the Doods jury
Top : Four. Oh indeed.
Bottom : Five. Seems less like shark-jumping on second view, but even so.
Even Five waves its danglies provocatively over just about anything else on lately. Season One took a while to bend you to its will then each box took less and less time to watch.
Best: 3, weakest:2
I always come late to these list thingys
and end up looking like a sheep. Anyway
In descending order
4 - for the reasons many of you give above. Makes me glad I teach in Italy and not in Baltimore. Brilliant ensemble acting.
2 - Ziggy was compulsively irritating and (unlike many) I found Frank and son well-drawn and believable.
3 everything coming together
1 - hard to get into. Much better on the second viewing.
5 - got a bit farfetched. Still miles better than most TV, mind. I need to watch it again.
Gus Haines for mayor
I concur with most
Best: Series 4, got so much depth. Just noticed Michael's reticence to be around Cutty in the car by himself, last night. Chris' subsquent actions on Michael's behalf and the unspoken understanding between him and Michael in the run-up to them are incredibly subtle and moving in their own way.
Worst: 2, exposition in a very grand way. Still magnif.
I disagree with condemnations of Series 5. It's the best ever depiction of a newsroom, and particularly the newsroom of a newspaper on the skids. I had enormous feeling of empathy with Gus Haines - he's the editor I would have wanted to work for.
Jeez, I'm going on about this again.
From most brilliant to least brilliant
4, 2, 3, 1, 5.
"That'll work" - so what didn't?
As a sidebar, let's indulge in some gratuitous bitching and find the flaws, regardless of which season they're in. Here are mine.
1. A city too two-tone - David Simon has mentioned that one area he wanted to explore more was the issue of the other ethnic groups in Baltimore, which are only hinted at with minor characters - Omar's Latino boyfriend, the Greek's multinational gang, the eastern-European girls found dead in the "tin can", the Korean convenience-store owners, and so on. I think that the shifts, tensions and pressures of demographics are almost certainly a more powerful driving force shaping our cities today than the decline of the traditional media is. In other words, this is what season five should have been "about", not David Simon settling old scores with the Sun.
2. Sobotka's brother. Acting so wooden you could build a fleet of Viking longships with it.
3. Sobotka's "fat suit". Why not stick a putty nose on Rawls while they were at it?
4. Sexual orientation. Kima's was blithely accepted with nary a blink by all those around her. I don't really buy that Herc, Carver or even McNulty would be so "whatever" about this topic. Inner-city cops are pretty basic in their beliefs and prejudices, and I don't think their reaction would have been much different from Avon and Stringer's to Omar being gay: irrational disgust and rejection. To conclude: they tried to make this a non-issue in ambits where it still very much is one. (And as for Rawls's "secret life", yes, it was funny for about five seconds but ultimately no more than a cheap shot that should have stayed in the editing suite if they didn't have the time - or perhaps the balls - to explore it.)
5. Stringer. I know it's sacrilege to suggest it, but the character was just too pat and two-dimensional for me. Ruthless killer, terror of the Towers and bespectacled night-school swat? In an otherwise very subtle show, this character was as subtle as a Marvel Comics villain. All that was missing was for him to be a concert-standard violinist too. (Cf. Brother Mouzone and, to a lesser extent, Lester Freamon.)
6. Avon. Why was he the top dog - because he was quite good at basketball? Stringer was much smarter; Wee-Bay was much scarier.
7. Accents. For all the talk about the authenticity of the accents, most of them were all over the place. The only non-bit-part actors who sounded like they were from Baltimore were the ones who actually were (for the truly weird white accent, the cop who played Bunny's No. 2, and the school deputy principal; for the black accent, Prop Joe and the Deacon). I mean, come on. Even John Travolta made a better job of it in the Hairspray remake.
Yet it's still the best thing that's been on TV in decades.
Yes, the best
but I agree with your point about Stringer. He was a great character but not at all realistic. Same with the doll-house miniature whittling Lester Freamon. And McNulty being far too clear-eyed and toned for someone with his junk food, beer and 'Jamie' consumption. In general, the dialogue from all characters was far too smart and hip to be genuine. Maybe the 'realism' angle was played up a bit too much and it should be viewed simply as great drama.
*Edit* That said, Freamon was largely based on a real detective featured in his book Homicide - A Year on the Killing Streets, who was a dapper, urbane New Yorker, with parents who were concert pianists IIRC.
Wire tapping
I agree with most of what you say, Archie and DougieJ, but...
The characters of Stringer and Carcetti each brought out two of the strongest points in the series (not original points, but massively important points). In Stringer's case, that the drug trade is just an alternative economy and social structure, one that even the poorest can gain from. In Carcetti's case, that no matter how ethical and determined a politician is at the beginning, it's short term vote-winning that ends up consuming their time and thoughts, with no time for morals or long-term solutions.
But that's not to say that these characters were just puppets to make those points. I found them both realistic, and I can imagine that there are Stringers all over the place. Lots of people are divided into the person they're forced to be and the person they're trying to be.
Brother Mouzone was a ridiculous character with Hollywood dialogue, but I suppose it's unrealistic to portray a world without any bizarre eccentrics. (Didn't Tricky once roam the mean streets of Bristol in a dress?)
I agree with QTron that Avon may have inherited his title; alternatively, his assumed superiority to Stringer could be due to something as trivial as a victory in a playground fight during their childhood. Over time, Stringer may have accepted his position for pragmatic reasons.
Whether or not "the dialogue from all characters was far too smart and hip to be genuine", well, if this is on a scale that includes the preposterously verbose and overwritten dialogue of "The West Wing", I didn't have a problem with "The Wire" dialogue at all.
Quite true, Nick
Maybe we're overlooking the nostalgia that Stringer expressed for the purity of the ambition that fuelled both he and Avon as younger men, when that "black power shit" still meant something to them.
Stringer's desperate craving for "respectability" can't be overlooked either (even if we weren't hammered over the head with it), as it's arguably this as much as anything that led to his death. I certainly didn't have the need for everything to be spelled out, and I enjoyed getting to know characters like String at the same pace that, say, McNulty did.
I particularly found the post-mortem scene in Stringer's flat convincing, satisfying and poignant. The final scene, where Jimmy pulled Adam Smith's "The Wealth Of Nations" from above Bell's exquisitely arranged collection of Samurai swords spoke volumes about both David Simon's vision and Stringer Bell's mindset.
Nope - it was excellent
but the Sopranos was better, by a length, IMHO
The Wire .v. The Mob
I still held The Sopranos to be the greater programme until I saw series four of The Wire, and then I gave in and put The Wire at the top. But I may change back over time.
I've seen The West Wing, Deadwood, 24, Mad Men and Generation Kill. Only Generation Kill and possibly Mad Men came anywhere near to the quality of Sopranos/Wire.
The Sopranos
Still better
but was given a budget that made the Apollo programme look cheap.
Yes both really excellent
I finished watching the Wire then turned immediately to my recently acquired Sopranos box set to rewatch it having originally watched it via TV (how quaint..) and the Sopranos just seems richer and more complex in the stories, though who knows The Wire may be equally great on a rewatch.
I don't know Generation Kill. Must investigate.
But Kima was a Lesbian,
But Kima was a Lesbian, Archie, and a fairly hot one at that if that's how your boat gets floated; it's chalk-cheese to compare how an all-male unit would react with her with how they would react to a gay man. I also think that you're failing to take into account the fact that from the picture painted in both "The Wire" and "A Year On The Killing Streets" your average homicide cop is likely to be a cut above your ranch-standard street-cop, and much less prone to such manechistic thinking.
I'll trade you Ziggy
For Stringer.
Best - Series 3 - Weakest - Series 5
Major, major bugbear with the actor playing the character of Tommy Carcetti. The one thing in the entire oevure that is just so far from reality. Annoying as hell and possibly the weakest actor in the series, even allowing for Ziggy, as mentioned..........
Objection!
Ziggy was a great performance - one of the best, even. It's the character that makes you want to squidge over-ripe fruit in his face, not the acting. Playing "weak, obnoxious arsehole" is actually very difficult, and most actors shy away from such roles. Sean Penn, James Woods, Steve Buscemi and only a few others can do them justice, but this guy's among them.
Best - 4 Worst - 5
I agree with the sentiments above voiced my Mr V, though I'd always thought that Avon was the latest in a long line of Barksdale druglords, dealing being the historical family trade and his position was hereditary rather than one he'd earned.
My gripe with The Wire is the serial killer plot in Season Five. I never bought that McNulty would have been allowed to take it so far by his fellow officers.
Best and Worst
Best - 4
Worst, by far - 5.
Best 3, then 4, 2 and 1. Worst 5
Best individual episode - penultimate episode of Season 3. Won't explain why for fear of spoiling it for anyone.
Best 3 - Worst 5.
Difficult to make a decision either way. Can't wait to watch 'em all again, just letting a few months go by before making a start
Favourite -
three.
Least favourite - five.
Four wins
And five's the dud (relatively speaking - it's still not exactly Hotel Babylon, is it?)
fuzzy dunlop
ziggy was great in s2 and even better in 'generation kill'
sopranos should have finished at s4 all though i did like the ending in the final episode
fav? it's like choosing your best child but i'd go for s4
herc to carver when suggested he was trying to ask beatie out for coffee in s2
'i was going to ask for her knickers cause i'm making a soup'
or something like it
looking forward to 'treme'
Difficult
Favourite : 4
least fab : 5. Felt rushed and less well-written than the rest
What's with all the hate?
Season 2 is my favorite; Season 1 my least.
Also, Ziggy's magnificent! Its possible that we just have a difference of opinion, but I can;t help wondering whether, in his case, people are confusing a deliberately annoying character with a weak character. Ziggy's downfall is top notch!
TFFT
A fellow 2 fan
In order
4
2
1
3
5
Series 3 or 4
Series 3 or 4 are the best as they hit the high spot.
4 probably edges it for the best cast of young actors seen in a long while.
5 is my least favourite though that is probably because of the truncated feel of the second half of the series which I believe was cut short by the network.
BTW over on the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/poll/2009/jul/28/best-tv-show-noughties they are running a poll on the best TV show of the noughties can I suggest you get over there and vote for the Wire as its currently running neck and neck with Top Gear.
3/2
Best - 3
Poorest - 2
Very late to the party
I was resistant to the raves about the show until a friend who is a member of the Australia Federal Police (he spies on and catches drug dealers all day every day) told me it was "The best show ever made" I listened.
In order
34125
Season five is a distant last. As explained above by others the serial killer aspect was ludicrous. I can picture someone like McNulty with his "everyones's an idiot but me" attitude doing something like that but Lester, the voice of reason for four straight seasons, going along with it was the moment the show jumped the shark. Omar's spiderman act didn't help matters in that respect.
The flaws in McNulty's plan are too obvious. It's as though he said "I have a plan that will land us both in jail AND ruin our case against Marlo at the same time, what do you think Lester?" For the first time in the shows run I just did not buy it.
Of the others Season two was the least compelling, I just think the further they got from the little hoppers (past present and future)the weaker the show got and Ziggy was the only character I wanted to get capped.
This is my favourite scene, Herc and Carver go to the movies and run into Poot and Bodie "See you tomorrow"
and what undoubtedly inspired it.