Entertainment For Lively Minds
The Old Radio 2 Audience
After years of listening to Terry Wogan, my Mum has given Chris Evans a go, but just found him a bit too much on a morning. I can listen to him for a bit after eight, but I prefer the Today programme when I first surface, or some classical music.
She has nothing personal against Evans, but has gone back to the Today programme on Radio 4, then enjoys a bit of Ken Bruce, although most of the music isn't really her cup of tea. Radio 2 is crying out for another late night evening show after Radcliffe and Macaroni.There is nothing much for her to listen to after 10pm on national or digital radio.
It's shame for the older generation, those who don't have access, can't afford, or use a computer and the internet like myself and have more choice to what they listen too on a daily basis. (Although I'm sitting in the public library writing this as my computer has died recently)
I guess I'm saying I feel sorry for the Radio 2's old audience. I admit they have some specialist shows and Sunday does cater for the older generation more, but for those who only have the national radio stations, what else can they listen to? Even on the digital stations, there's nothing that caters for older people in these parts, we don't have Classic Gold or anything similar to the old Radio 2.
I like a bit of Desmond Carrington myself and I'm not suggesting that all older people just listen to old music, but I reckon there's a waiting opportunity for a new "old radio 2" type radio station.What do you think?
- More from David Wright.
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Question for information
What is "the older generation"?
The Lawrence Welk Singers v Country Joe & The Fish
I think "the older generation" David Wright is referring to is people born before WW2, whose taste in pop music was shaped in the pre-rock'n'roll era. This is the audience that Radio 2 used to cater for. But it is an ageing audience and the station now, understandably, is aimed at a younger, 30 plus age group - too old for 'cutting edge' Radio 1 but crucially, when it comes to music, from the post-rock'n'roll generation. Jimmy Young's gone. Parky's gone. Russell Davies' excellent Sunday afternoon show has been shunted into some quiet backwater of the schedule. Desmond Carrington's clinging on, but it can't be long. Only Alan Titschmarch holds the fort. (I'll leave Wogan out of this: although his 'vibe' was old-school, his playlist was, on the whole, modern mainstream R2).
On the recent thread about cover versions I mentioned that I never knew that the disco classic Gonna Get Along Without You Now by Viola Wills was a widely-covered pop standard dating back to the early '50s. I've since collected a few different versions. There's a nice country pop version by Skeeter Davis. A cracking version by Tracey Dey (produced by Bob Crewe during thumb-twiddling time between making the 26 singles the Four Seasons put out in three years). But the one I'm enjoying the most is by Lawrence Welk & his Singers & Orchestra. And here it is . . .
Now, obviously, being from the rock'n'roll generation, my initial reaction to this clip was to laugh: it's absurd; it's 'cheesy'; the Lawrence Welk show is the yardstick for square-ness in American showbusiness history. But then, a few 'replay's in I found my mind wandering ... it's a jaunty arrangement, well played; the singing may fall at the first when it comes to conveying the wounded but defiant pride implicit in the lyric, but it sounds nice enough; I wonder which one of the girls is actually called Norma Zimmer?(it's the third one from the right); wonder which one of them is most likely to turn out be a bit of a tiger in the sa.. (sniiip)? The wardrobe department's ensemble "packet of Opal Fruits with the Commie red ones taken out" costuming is only the most ridiculous thing you've ever seen on the fashion front if you're yet make the acquaintance of the Kings Of Leon's new designer clothing range (I kid you not). Before you know it you can understand why this sort of thing was a lot more popular than Country Joe & The Fish.
This sort of thing was once all over the telly and the radio. Because people loved it. But the Tyranny Of Cool made it redundant.
It's easy to sneer at Easy Listening. It's easy to embrace it in an 'ironic' Mike Flowers Pops way. But amongst the third-rate cabaret rubbish there are great performers, musicians, writers, arrangers etc.
And there a lot of people more at home with that sort of music.
There are plenty of people who are more at home with Brenda Lee than Lady Gaga, which is fair enough; more at home with the James Last Orchestra than U2, which is understandable; more at home with Wogan and Titschmarch than Russell Brand. And, what's more. they're at home more. Wanting to listen to the radio. David Wright is absolutely right. I really like Chris Evans etc. and a good deal of modern Radio 2, but there is a genuine audience that they have abandoned. I think it's a business opportunity: the grey pound is there for the taking.
I'd much rather listen to that...
than Lady Gaaarrrghger.
Well Said
You're spot on Richard with your first sentence, that's the audience I was thinking of and I enjoyed the clip by the way. I really do feel there could be an opportunity for a new station that would cater to the tastes you have mentioned.
When I was younger, I used to shut off if I heard record with a crackle on it from the thirties and forties, but now I'm much more open minded musically. As we all know, all good music is good, whatever decade it may be from. There's so many treasures to be discovered from the past.
Rock Of Ages
Was thinking of the 65-100 age group.
I was thinking about a similar thing yesterday.
Many of the 'jocks' from my days of listening to R1 as a teenager / into my early 20s - Steve Wright, Simon Mayo, Mark Radcliffe, Chris Evans, Zoe Ball, have now found a home on R2. As an R2 listener pushing 40, I don't mind this a bit - it feels like a home from home. But I was wondering how I'm gonna feel in 15 or 20 years (maybe less...) when the current crop of R1 DJs start appearing on 'my' station, Radio 2. Not happy I suspect. I will then not know what to listen to. I've studiously avoided Moyles & co. with good reason - I'd be annoyed to find them where I least want them. And I suspect the 'older generation' of R2 listeners feel that way about the 'old' R1 invasion... Where do they go? Good question.
I fully understand.
I miss Wogan so much. I'm 40. Radcliffe & Maconie works for me, but I can't see my mum getting them. I agree with you David Wright. Radio 2 is now squarely aimed at the 25 to 45 demographic, and before you start, Mr Hepworth, no, I'm not being objective, its just how I see it!
How's the hangover by the way? Sorry I couldn't make it, but glad the massive had a good night in the Lamb.
I completely agree
My Dad seems unable to find any station catering for the type of music Radio 2 used to play - stuff like James Last, Mantovani, Johnny Mathis, Andy Williams, etc. I'm sure there's something on the net for him, but I haven't been able to find it yet.
I think the station does provide something for him post-Radcliffe/Maconie, and on Friday nights, but daytime - no chance. As a public service broadcaster (and one I'm a big fan of), this does seem poor. I don't expect Radio 2 to suddenly return to the old days, but surely the corporation should do something more to cater for this audience who I won't identify by age but will by the type of music they like to hear.
Older audiences
Terry will be doing a Sunday show on Radio 2 from February so all is not lost. I'm 47 and feel perfectly happy with Radio 2 - like Prezbo I feel its a station you move to along with the ex-R1 jocks.
Terry is 71 and couldn't have gone on forever. Whether Evans will be a success - lets see what his audience share is in 6 months.
I listen to the Today programme on weekday mornings - hate radio 1 and detest bland commercial stations playing crud like lady gargle
Back In The Library
I'm sure Terry's new show will appeal to his old audience and win some new fans, but as mentioned, Sunday does seem to be then only day when Radio 2 caters for its "lost audience", I feel they've been treated badly, where do they go and who do they listen too?
There is a guy called Frank Whoppit, who does a show around the local Yorks and Teeside BBC stations on a Sunday night and he plays all sorts; dance band stuff from the 30s and 40s and old music I've never heard before and I quite enjoy some of it myself! It's the only show that caters for my father's tastes (he's 72) but even this show has the last hour cut off by Radio York who start a late night love request show at 10pm.
Frank Wappatt
Good Lord, I never thought I'd see that name on here.
He was a regular broadcaster, a mainstay in fact, of Radio Newcastle in the 70's and 80's when I was a lad. He had a chart show of sorts. I once heard him play 'Motorhead' from 'No Sleep 'til Hammersmith'. He was underwhelmed to the nth degree. Very funny.
Still going is he? Fair do's.
There seems to be
a general presumption that people of this 'older generation' (of which I might be a member myself as the bus pass beckons in a few years) have some compartmentalised area of music which they would rather hear. This is not what I find. If I can use the example of my own dear mother who will be 88 in August, her recent gigs have included Paul Brady (the electric band), Jools Holland (last 5 visits to Glasgow), Eddi Reader, a Queen tribute band (OK, her grandson is the drummer), An Evening of Film Classics (New York, New York etc.), The SNO (Beethoven & chums) and Bill Wyman. Albert Lee is her favourite guitarist (personally, I am an RT fan myself). She dips in and out of R2 and R3 and R4 and Radio Scotland which has some excellent eclectic programmes like Ricky Ross Americana on Friday night, Archie Fishers folk program but I don't think she wants to be part of anyone's 'demograph' if it means that she has to be labelled as 'old'.
My mum was a dancer in her younger days and has come through her life with all sorts of music as the backdrop. Even now at her aerobics class she asks if a Stevie Wonder tune might be better as an accompaniment.
Having said that, I am not sure how the R2 programmers are supposed to allocate the demograph in this ever-changing society where even the ones nearer the top of the mountain know a good tune when they hear it. I reckon an ecclectic mix of programmes is a good thing. As I write, Bob Harris is on R2 and I know it will include all sorts of music which will undoubtedly be of a high standard. Bob is over 60 - even older than me! (but not that much really).
This week, I am been mostly listenin' to Roger McGuinn, The Beatles, Julie London, The Wondermints, Steely Dan, Martin Simpson (going to see him on Friday night,), Rory Gallagher, Karine Polwart, Buddy Rich, Mahler, Kate & Anna, Eddie Calvert, The Imagined Village........ 'demogragh, we don' need no stinkin' demograph'.
Fair play to yer ma
but I suspect she may be more the exception than the rule.
It's a difficult problem. Even though the population is older than before, the 'old' radio2 audience who tuned in to Ray Moore or JY in the 70s and 80s have mostly died off now. People in their 60s and 70s were younger people in the 50's and 60's. My dad is knocking 70 (well, he's 68 tomorrow) and loves rock 'n' roll and the likes of Marty Robbins, but both my parents love other stuff. My mum quite the liked the Pugwash album I lent her to check out recently, loved the recent George Harrison compilation and is partial to a bit of Richard Hawley.
And Radio 2, even in daytime, does manage to hit some of that demographic. Some of the specialist stuff is interesting but too short. So we see Russell Davies shunted off to 9pm on Sunday, away from the slot he (and before him) Benny Green used to live in. BBC local stations do take up some of that slack, but not all of it. I used to love listening to Marin Kelner's show from Leeds on a Sunday evening in Teesside, but that stopped eventually.
I miss Wogan already too, but I think Evans is doing the right thing. Some will not like him, but what he's doing now has its heart in the right place, I think. More importantly, I think he's much more of a 'radio' man than some of those stunt presenters parachuted in to do shows. How I'm praying for them to give Ross's Saturday morning gig to Danny Baker...
You are, of course,
right my enlightened friend. Me mam is the exception - and somewhat exceptional. I think by mentioning her I was kinda doing the vicarious thing. I am only a couple of years short of 60. It seems strange to me to even write that number in connection with me. Like mother, I have catholic tastes in music. Last week I went to see The Imagined Village, tomorrow night The Chieftans/Ry Cooder, next Friday Martin Simpson (Celtic Connections time in Glasgow). A couple of months ago I was at Little Boots and Delphic - and Emiliana Torrini. Shortly, Peer Gynt the RSNO. I don't think I am all that exceptional as I know many people like me. Am I am outwith R2's demograph? Not sure. Well I listen to Rad & Mac who ain't that much younger than me and I generally enjoy their fairly wide mix of music and the crack is good. I listen to Clare Teal on Sundays, Janice Long (till I nod off), Bob Harris & Mike Harding - both way older than me. That's a fair selection and I choose to listen to them and there's a fair amount of R2 stuff I just turn off. Strangely enough, although I had a liking for Chris Evans' drive time show, I can't get into the morning thing but that might be to do with me in the morning. I Like the Archers and the Money programme. Perhaps I am just contrary - tell me something is for me and I will probably turn away. I think at the bottom of it all I just want to be my own demograph and listen to what the hell I please.
Oh jeez, I have to pass the humanity question now.......... (sorry to chunder on so).
Interesting, because I'm
not quite 40, and much of your list above I looked at and thought, "Yeah, that's pretty much me." Haven't listened to the latest Imagined Village stuff, but the first album was stunningly good. And I have a soft spot for Mike Harding because of his performance stuff. I have a several of his seventies albums that had the music and comedy on them, all of which are quite wonderful. And I think it's law that all civilised people have to listen to at least some Radio 4 :)
In the end, age is just a number. Party on.
Agreed...
Just back from aforementioned Chieftans/Ry Cooder gig at Glasgow Concert Hall. What a splendid night with Los Cenzontles, Carlos Nuñez, The Scottish Power Pipe band and many more. Great musicians enjoying themselves. I just spent about 3 hours with a big smile on my face, singing Goodnight Irene. Go see them if you get the chance.
Thanks for your splendid input. Life is good.
Sweeping generalisation alert!
Radio 1's average listener age is 33 (it's meant to be 22.) Radio 2's average listener age is 50 ("over-35" is the target.)
Actual obvious conclusion - young people just don't listen to the radio! Don't even try to appeal to them - let's put all the "trendy" Radio 2 DJs (Evans, Maconie, Radcliffe etc.) on Radio 1, and send Radio 2 back to documentaries and this "lost" easy-listening demographic (Ken Bruce etc.)
The radio conveyor-belt.
This seems to be an idea to me. Start with R1, move to R2, then on to a new station or two. The DJ's pass along the line, taking their music and listeners with them in a graceful progression.