Entertainment For Lively Minds
The Massive's 12 Inchers
A few weeks ago,I wasted a few hours re-organizing my vinyl and alongside the dust and wonderful smell of black plastic,was surprised to see just how many 12 inch records I have collected over the years.I'm not up on the dance music scene, but I guess there must be many DJs who still play 12 inch records during their sets? I would certainly like to think so.
Looking back, 12 inches seem quite a curious thing now. The 12 inch or extended version would often be quite useless and the B-side was normally just two other tracks; a 7 inch version of the song (which you probably owned already) or an instrumental version of the single. Sometimes you'd get a live track which could be a bonus depending on the artist. I cringe now, but I also discovered 5 T'Pau 12 inch records in my collection!
The 12 inch, like the cassette single, was perhaps a bit of a rip off , but the 12 inch was still a collectable item and I still pick up the odd one now and again. The 12 inch single often had a slightly different cover from the 7 inch version and you could often pick up to at least two different 12 inch versions of the single which different remixes. Both often quite useless. Pictured above, alongside a few albums, are some of my 12 inch guilty "42" pleasures.
Do any of the massive have the same fondness for the 12 inch? What was the best 12 inch ever, New Order's Blue Monday perhaps?
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DJs still play 12 inch records during their sets?
How many play vinyl at all? I haven't seen one for a long time.
Loaded is my favourite FWIW.
I think it depends on the type of music
I understand dubstep needs to be pressed on vinyl to get the proper bass sounds
Play Some Plastic
Really? I imagined a few would still use vinyl.
I only have three
"Blue Monday", "Two Tribes" and "Greetings to the New Brunette" the last one wouldn't qualify as a dance remix.
Memorable ones for me
One of my earliest, if not the first: I Could Be Happy by Altered Images. I remember playing it at a party and everyone thinking it was scratched cos of the (then weird) winding-back sound.
Reliable 12"ers - Simple Minds. Many of their's bettered the 7" versions by a long way.
I have Atmosphere by JoyDiv which I believe may be worth a few quid.
Atmosphere
Do you think it's worth something? I've got it too but have no intention of selling it or any other vinyl for that matter. They're now my family heirlooms you know.
I have Atmosphere
There are numerous copies on eBay. The best price is €6.85. Not really enough to retire on.
If you have the original "Atmosphere" b/w "Dead Souls"
that was released on the French Sordide Sentimental imprint in a limited run of 1,578 copies, it'll be worth quite a bit. The most recent copy sold on eBay went for over $1,000.
This was the version that John Peel preferred to play on his show.
I can remember going round the West End of London after it was released, trying to get hold of a copy. No luck.
The Rolling Stones
Miss You extended 12" on pink vinyl.
8 mins or thereabouts.
What's not to like?
Yes indeed!
I rushed out to buy this strictly limited edition on release, only to find that once it began to sell they pressed up millions of the things. I suspect the black vinyl 12" (if there is one?) is probably worth more.
Great track though.
Strictly Limited to how many they can sell
I have a 12" Kraftwerk single of "Neon Lights"
with "Trans-Europe Express" and "The Model" on the b-side. It was my introduction to them and what an intro! Better still, it's on luminous vinyl: put it on the turntable, switch off the lights and watch it spin n' glow. I nominate this as the Best Ever 12" Single.
My second favourite 12-incher is the Temple City Kazoo Orchestra ripping through "Also Sprach Zarathustra," "Miss You" and "Whole Lotta Love." I do concede that it's one of those words don't do it justice, you gotta hear it records... (And indeed that the joke has worn a trifle thin by the middle of the second song.)
I'll go for Kraftwek too
Neon Lights is so perfect and sad that even thinking about it ... excuse me I think I have a railway sleeper in my eye...
Presumably even though vinyl is stil used because of the amount of bass resonance, you're wasting your time (i.e. its a gimmick) if it was recorded on digital?
I do love the spiritual direct connection you have with analogue to the original recording - part of what Lennon used to call 'the record' - when you can look at the grooves on some cuts and actually SEE how loud it is.
The Adventures Of Grandmaster Flash On The Wheels Of Steel
A 12" like nothing I'd ever heard before.
ZTT
I'll second The Adventures Of Grandmaster Flash On The Wheels Of Steel
a truly ground-breaking tune.
The ZTT 12"s were always good value. The recent re-issue of the Propaganda album and the new Art Of Noise collection had me digging them out of the garage and they were pretty good.
Ian
It blew
.. my woofers
As I keep mentioning
I was a DJ for ten years between 1994 and 2004.
During this time I have collected thousands of the things and they sit under my bed and in cupboards, largely untouched now. I need to start selling them off but I am far too lazy to start cataloguing them all.
Favourites are a Nextmen remix of Public Enemy's 'Are You Gonna Go My Way' on white label, the original Groovejet Miami EP without Ellis Bextors warbles on it and this summer beauty:
I'd imagine
a profusion of white labels doesn't help too much with any cataloguing process...
Long Hot Summer by The Style Council
In general I think pop songs should make it snappy. Some songs though just work better with a bit more breathing space. Long Hot Summer is one of them.
my thing with 12"
I used to buy them because I thought that if I liked the song so much I would therefore be getting more of it. But of course usually it was a different mix entirely, so it always disappointed. I went back to 7" very quickly.
I think I own Two Tribes, Really Saying Something by Banarama, My Way Of Thinking by UB40, Remembrance Day by B-Movie and of course the two you could only get on 12" Bela Lugosi's Dead and Blue Monday.
I prefer the 7".
They tend to be louder so sound better than albums in clubs
The Duran Duran 'Night versions' are great
New Order ones in general are worth listening to
And Human league
The favourite one I own is the first press of 'Only love can break your heart' by St Etienne. Still sounds amazing
Agreed - 12" is the natural habitat of the Human League single
in their poppier incarnation. Also a lot of disco/funk/reggae at one time when 7" didn't have either the sonic headroom or duration to allow for a song to stretch out.
I do take 5-centres' point though - I just listened to what I thought was a good early example of the remixed-for-12" genre - Roxy Music's "Angel Eyes". It's padding.
I thought the best thing the DYWMH did was
the 'Love And Dancing' 12" mini-album. Even today, it gets the occasional play chez Stimpy.
Before you wrote this...
one side of the 12" vinyl LP got an airing chez DLM today . Beautifully sequenced and constructed.
Talking Loud
I'd never thought about that, re their loudness, but my 12 inches still sound better than their seven inch counterparts.
The Clash
I have a fondness for this little beauty, mainly for the 2 terrific dub versions of "Armagideon Time" on the B-side, "Justice Tonight" and "Kick it Over". They were later issued on the "Black Market Clash" mini-album, but somehow it was never the same.
Chic - Everybody Dance
though I think that is referred to as a Maxi-Single. Not sure about the difference.
It's Immaterial
The 12" versions of both Ed's Funky Diner and Driving Away From Home were both magnificent.
The long version of Ed's Funky Diner is a different song altogether and the long version of Driving, while not radically different, just adds so much more to the 7" version.
A couple from me
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 - 'The Message'.
I also have a deep fondness for Gary Byrd and the GB Experience's 'The Crown'. One of those early rap records where there's still a hint of singing in the vocals. It also (and I've posted on this before) rhymes 'blink' with 'sphinx'. Cap duly doffed.
Yay The Crown
"The Crown" is ace! Because it needs its full 10+ minutes it was made for the 12" format.
See also "The Message".
The first verses are street poetry put to music in the manner of Gary Byrd. But it's the last verse
"A child is born with no state of mind..."
written by Melle E Mel which makes it great.
Also in hip hop "Planet Rock" needs 12 inches to breathe.
But (as someone who also owns the 7") I think the absolute zinger in this format is "I Feel Love" by Donna Summer.
Spandau Ballet
You can raise your eyebrows at me, yes you at the back there. But the first 12 I bought was Spandau's Communication. Half the vocal part of the song is gone, apart from the backing vocals, replaced by somebody having a lot of fun with a sampler. The 12" versions of a lot of the Spand's stuff are actually pretty good, and haven't dated quite as badly as some extended remixes from that time due to a reliance on a looped groove in the more modern sense rather than gimmicks.
Soft Cell's extended versions are great too. I have a CD box set which I picked up in the early 90s of the 12"s. Bedsitter, Torch and Say Hello Wave Goodbye are if anything superior in their extended versions to the 7" versions.
Bedsitter - oh yes indeedy
With Marc Almonds fantastic/rubbish rapping
10" is the format of the Gods
But I've got quite a few 12"s. Those I can remember without going through the boxes (memory not perfect as I've flogged a few off over the years):
Eloise by the Damned breaks tradition by not having the 7" version on, which unfortunately means that there isn't a good track on it...
Blue Monday with the labels on the wrong side - for ages I thought Blue Monday was an instrumental and the vocals only appeared on the b-side. (Unles of course that's true and it's correctly labelled).
Drive by the Cars.
The first couple of Birdland releases.
Probably a few Alarm things.
Then there's all the stuff which came as basically 12" EPs - the Sisters 12" stuff (actually Temple of Love was an extended mix). Numerous GBOA/Crazyhead/Ned's etc. I'll have to check when I get home.
I suspect my hazy recall reflects the inessential nature of most of these.
As an ex club DJ
in the early 80's, I played mostly 12" singles, but to save money I also played album tracks which never had the crispness or volume of the 12"ers. I have about 500, mostly soul, funk and disco, and on various labels mailing lists, the main one being Motown. I remember getting a new waxing from an unknown band called Frankie Goes To Hollywood. It was relax. We used to be asked for feedback once we played the record and I have 2 mixes before receiving the 3rd one which was then released to the general public and they certainly make for interesting listening. It's a record (excuse the pun) of how a track is poliched and sharpened before most of us hear it. The first version was raw, with virtually no vocal, my favourite in fact. The 2nd over compensated and the vocals softened the track way too. The 3rd is now history re it's success.
I don't play them much now, but would never give them up.
As a DJ, they nearly always had that bass, drum break in the middle which, when heard over a club sound system, really got the dancefloor moving plus, at an average of 6 minutes or so, let us DJ's leave the stand and get a drink and have a chat so in Axekeithworld, they are much treasured and fondly remembered.
Basement 5's White Christmas
I'm quite fond of 12 inchers. Extended versions of good songs were usually worth it, especially tracks like Two Tribes or Pete Shelley's Homosapien, and there were sometimes good live tracks which weren't on the 7 inch version
But sometimes the 12 inchers were worth buying because they contained a great single. I'm not sure if this is extended version but it's my favourite 12 incher
5 T'Pau 12" inchers??
Only 5?? I have waaay more than that. The shame...(most are autographed too).
Sex Talk
5 was my limit, but I had a lot of their inches too.How many T'Paul 12 inchers do you own!? In their defence, I used to quite fancy Carol Decker when I was a teenager and I still think Valentine and China In Your Hands were good songs. I can imagine Oasis covering the latter, with a similar arrangment to that employed on Don't Look back In Anger. I think potentially, this sound marvellous.
Phil Collins/Phillip Bailey - Easy Lover 12"
They did a good job of doing something different with the 12" rather than just adding a verse to the 7" - and of course being Phil Collins, it involved lots of big drums...
I *love* the Roland CR-78 drum machine on it as well...
Beach Boys disco
In addition to the 12" version of Miss You mentioned above, I still own the Beach Boys 12" version of Here Comes The Night, 12 minutes of the Boys doing disco. What was I thinking?
Maybe like me
you were thinking "this sounds brilliant"...?
I still listen to this one
it's a great extended remix
Wait a minute
have you been in my attic?
Loads
Some of the most memorable:
Blue Monday (natch)
White Lines (don't don't do it)
State of Independence - Donna Summer - the song can really breathe in the longer format, as with...
Slave To The Rhythm - Grace Jones
John I'm Only Dancing (Again) - Bowie
Jump in The River - Sinead O'Connor - includes a truly demented spoken/howled section featuring "outrageous" performance artist Karen Findlay. Might be worth a few bob.
And the one that got away: The Message by Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five, complete with all the words, which I learned by heart. I lent it to someone, or someone nicked it. Never got it back. *sob*
Jump In The River
I love that version, still listen to that today.
Masters Of The 12 Inch
This still sounds great, just dug out the 12 inch version.
Well, I must say
this thread has turned out a little disappointing.
You should be used to the disappointment of
boys boasting about their 12" by now, surely?
Wishin' and hopin'...
and thinkin' and prayin'...
Perhaps Bull Moose Jackson
can help you?
Few of my favourites;
Human League - Sound of the Crowd
Scritti Politti - The Sweetest Girl
DAF - Der Mussolini
Joy Division - Transmission
I'm sure all the above were available on 7 inch, but i would often get the 12 inch version, as the record player i had at the time refused to play 7 inch singles for some reason, the following were, i believe, only on 12 inch
Associates - Their peerless run of singles only, starting with 'White Car in Germany'
Savant - 'Stationary Dance' absolutely stunning track by a band that i've heard or seen nothing else by.
I'll go with the
first one that came into my head although the reference to The Associates above reminded me again how simply brilliant they were. Anyway, Simple Minds "Waterfront" with an extended intro really was rather good, fantastic bass line, love the 80's!
Love The 80s - There's A Surprise
Whenever I read your posts, Mr Amitri, I always think there's a man who would love a hot tub time machine for Christmas
I met the wife in 1989
after that it was very quickly domesticity, children and responsibility. The 80's were my time of booze, birds and bad music. As much as I love being a husband, father, breadwinner, and getting old I miss it all dreadfully, but I guess you'd worked that out!
The Thompson Twins
Did any Massive members ever buy the triple set of 12 inchers that were shaped like jigsaw pieces and locked together to produce a giant example of Thompsonalia?
Two for the show
Here are two 12-inchers I bought as a result of seeing the artists live. When The Tubes first came to play in the UK in 1977, the NME's Paul Rambali called the show "a spectacle unlike any other. If you saw them you will probably feel conned next time you hand over the notes to watch some other group merely stand there and play." They really were amazing.
White Punks On Dope / Don't Touch Me There / What Do You Want From Life
Three years later, I was in the audience to see Ry Cooder at probably the peak of his popularity (Bop Til You Drop/Borderline era) record the lead track for this 12 inch 'special edition'.
Crazy 'bout An Automobile / The Very Thing That Makes You Rich / If Walls Could Talk / Look At Granny Run Run
Apollo Victoria, October 1980
I was there too. What a great show.
Ry dropped his guitar at one point. During one of his typically amusing prologues the strap came loose and it crashed to the floor in a discordant howl of feedback. "Goddam! First time that's happened in 25 years", Ry mused.
The great John Hiatt was in the band and we were amazed and charmed in equal measure by Willie Green Jr and his astounding basso profondo backing vocals.
Here's my front row ticket:
I was downstairs
but not as close to the stage as you. Well remember John Hiatt and Willie Green and Bobby King on vocals. Presumably Keltner on drums.. actually no, according to the program, it was Darrell Verdusco on drums, James Rolleston on bass, Jesse Harms keyboard.
Bobby King
was great on high tenor alongside Willie Green's bass vocals. The encore was, I think, an acappella version of Sam Cooke's Chain Gang.
Did you know that Willie Green appeared on at least one George Harrison album around that time?
Good memories of that show
I have a 2 DVD set compilation of Ry's TV appearances 1977-87 that includes four songs from that tour. It's called Plug in with drop down D, released by Johanna Pictures. I bought it in Japan, but it says made in US.
Pretty sure I was there too -
courtesy of my brother. There's a ticket stub around I can check, but it all seems to fit the memories of my one and only time of seeing Mr Cooder. The recorded version's of the song's a cracker - and the live performance that night was too. Brilliant vocals.
On checking I see it was 24hrs before
The Clash: Magnificent Seven
is, magnificent...
Fuckin' long, ain't it?
I thought I was unique
Last night I was going to join in with Gary Byrd, Donna Summer, Human League, even the Soft Cell box set that I bought in the mid-80's. All of which I now see have been covered here.
"Interestingly", Mute's two biggest bands of the 80s Yazoo and Depeche Mode were polar opposites when it came to the 12" remix. Yazoo's were terrible - no effort at all. The "remix" of Situation was simply the 7" version twice! Only You was the 7" version on very wide grooves.
Conversely, Depeche Mode gave the punters value for money. Sometimes the attention given to 12" version redeemed some of their lesser songs.
That Petrol Emotion
... for me. The 12 inch mix of 'Big Decision' far better than the 7inch 45 hit. (I think it was a minor hit?). Anyway a great song whatever version, but the 12 inch the definitive.Produced by Roli Mossman, I think.
Two good ones from the 90s:
Primal Scream: Dixie Narco EP - Came out after the Screamadelica album, and was the single "Movin' On Up" plus three other new tunes. The reason it was a 12 inch was due to the B-side 10 minute track called (confusingly) "Screamadelica". Great little EP, and sounded like a very self assured band at the top of their game. Made me hungry to see what they would come up with next...
Beck: "Where It's At" - The 12 inch had the 10+ minute UNKLE mix as the B-side, which was just great.
I used to like 12 inches. If they were done right by an act that was on top of things, it just seemed like a great little present.
The Story of the Blues (Parts 1 and 2)
Pete Wylie's finest moment in all it's 12" glory
I also have a 12" copy of Little Johnny Jewel by Television which is magnificent and Motown Junk by the Manics, another stormer.
New Order cornered this one surely...
Just counted mine. I've got 15 of them including two versions of 'Ceremony' right up to 'Touched By The Hand Of God'. If pushed I'd say the best one was 'True Faith'. Cos it had '1963' on the b side as well. Who else had two utterly brilliant songs either side of each other? Who? New Order 12" singles were what mattered to me most in the 80's.
Tubes again
As far as i can recall I only ever had 5 12 inchers as I was always an album man. The ones i recall were:-
Tubes - White Punks on dope
Televison - Marquee moon
Elvis Costello - You're not the only flame in town
Tom Tom Club - Wordy rappinghood
Elvis Costello - I'm your toy
Jealous of that Ry Cooder 12 inch though - I caught that same tour at Birmingham Odeon.
The end
The arrival of the 12" single signals the end for me and so I'm the proud owner of exactly one.
A five track Marc Bolan single which takes in 'Pewter Suitor' (a flop 45 from '69) and a few stray b's.
My first was
Lucky Number by Lene Lovich - I think it was the first one I ever saw - can't remember if there was anything different about it or not. I think my last was probably Loaded by Primal Scream.
Got these
This was only pressed on one side (RIP Liam).
The first I bought was this... still love it.
Got these
Double post.
ABC - Look Of Love
Orchestral, instrumental, alternative versions (1-6) of one of the greatest english pop songs of the 80s.
Also, during the great era of EP style albums ( eg Ultravox "Monument"), League Unlimited Orchestra is just great.
Blue Monday has to win though - early 80s roller discos at Hemel Hempstead leisure centre just wouldn't have been the same without it !!!
Best 12"er of the 80's for me
was 'Killing Moon' by Echo & The Bunnymen. Over nine minutes and no padding. Other standouts were an extended version of OMD's 'So In Love', and their 10" version of 'Souvenir' - otherwise, I think most of them disappeared into a cut-paste-paste-paste-slightly-vary-drum-machine-backing-job-done haze.
Having said which, I only recently heard the 12" version of 'I Feel Love' - ye gods. Stupendous.