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The hard way to earn £130

Glenbervie's picture

I was in court this week, the final chapter of a story that started nearly seven months ago.
Writing out the bare bones of the case - in a tale that comes to 1,800 words - is probably some sort of therapy, doubtless not very interesting and perhaps not even appropriate - in which case Fraser can just delete it.
But if anyone wants to know more about assault and the machinations of the Scottish criminal justice system, see below...

3

He hit me

It was a capable punch, bang on the eye. It bent my sunglasses, opened up the skin around my eye in several places and gave me a shiner that lasted a week. It also dropped me to the ground while I clutched my face, groaning, bleeding and stunned. Getting punched in the eye hurts.

The lead up to the event was pretty random. It was a pleasant autumn afternoon in Edinburgh, I had been in the city centre and was walking home along Montgomery Street, just around the corner from the famous Valvona & Crolla deli. The general street noises were drowned out by the iPod, or specifically by the rather natty Bose headphones I had bought myself as a treat earlier in the year. The only untoward element of the scene was a small group of young lads on the opposite pavement. They looked almost out of control, worth keeping an eye on, beyond exuberant. If I had to guess, I might have said they'd spent an afternoon getting acquainted with speedier substances than Tennent's Lager. But I was on one side of the street, they were on the other, and I soon drew ahead of them - out of sight, out of mind.

Minutes later, as I came to the junction of Montgomery Street and Hillside Street someone swiped me round the back of the head, dislodging the headphones. I turned round, taking the headphones off, and standing next to me was one of the lads from the group I'd spotted earlier. He tried to say something about "listening to music" and "gimme your headphones" but he was obviously off his face.

At that point I wasn't particularly scared and didn't even think I was being mugged, or that I was in any danger. He just seemed like a drunken or drugged-up ned: a daft, slurring laddie who had got it into his head that he wanted to listen to music on my headphones. I remember thinking to myself, 'If I put them away, he'll probably just wander off.' As I looked down, putting the headphones into an inside jacket pocket, he took a swing at me and caught me with a foursquare punch right out of the blue.

I don't know how long I lay on the deck for, probably only 20 or 30 seconds perhaps, then a passer-by helped me to my feet. By this time, the lad who punched me had left, but I didn't see where he went. Fortunately, diagonally opposite us was a café with pavement tables where several people had witnessed the whole event. One of the customers from the café came over, told me she knew first aid, and insisted I come and sit down while she cleaned the blood off my face. Everything was very calm, everyone was very kind. The café owner produced a whisky for me, the first aider cleaned me up, another café customer located a policeman who radioed for assistance. More policemen arrived and statements were taken. A group of young lads had been spotted just a few streets away doing something irresponsible around scaffolding. A witness from the café went off with a couple of the police officers and identified the group as the one I'd seen, including the lad who hit me. They were arrested and taken off to a police station.

While my eye was being attended to, the conversation outside the café was enlightening. The group of lads - there were three of them - had walked by the pavement tables and seemed set on bother. They'd decided not to cause any havoc among the customers because there were very young children present. However, they had spotted me on the other side of the road and two of the group had actively encouraged the third to cross the street and do something, unspecified. While this chat was going on between myself and the café customers, a chap who lived nearby stopped and added a few facts, identifying the group of lads as persistent troublemakers, making life hell for various people including the local shopkeeper. They were, it seems, absolute pains in the neighbourhood's arse.

Cleaned up, and having offered my sincere thanks to the café staff and clientele, I walked the rest of the way home, bemused and not really sure what to do next. Over the course of the next week, the cuts healed, the bruising subsided and finally I got all the feeling back on the right side of my face. I hadn't even been fully aware of the numbness until the day when it stopped - like a dental anaesthetic wearing off.

A few days after that, the police telephoned me. It was a courtesy call to say that punchy-boy was due in court in mid October and if he entered a guilty plea, that would be the end of the matter. If he entered a not guilty plea then another court date would be set for a hearing sometime in the new year. October came and went, as did November, December and January. Occasional thoughts of a baroque revenge fantasy aside – involving stakes, trawler twine, a deserted North Sea cove and an incoming tide - I basically tried to forget about it. Then in mid February, five months after the event, I received a citation from Edinburgh Sheriff Court. He'd plead not guilty so there would be a hearing after all, in early April, and I was to attend as a witness.

Thought number one after I opened the letter was, 'What? He punched me. I mean, there's no doubt about that. He punched me, he did it in front of witnesses, he was positively identified within half an hour of punching me and arrested. And he plead not guilty?'

Thought number two was sparked by the grave notice in block capitals on my citation, accentuated by an unbroken black border, 'IF YOU DO NOT ATTEND COURT WITHOUT A LAWFUL EXCUSE THE COURT MAY ORDER THAT YOU BE APPREHENDED AND PUNISHED.' Well gee, thanks guys.

And so it came to pass that on Tuesday this week, I made myself respectable for my moment in the spotlight and headed up the road to the Sheriff Court in Chambers Street. The citation had come with a helpful booklet explaining the outline of the court process, but otherwise I was coming to it stone cold. Apart from the informal telephone chat with the police in late September and the citation letter in February, no one else had been in touch so I had no idea how big or small this case would be, whether other witnesses would be there, indeed what would happen at all. Having served as a juror a couple of times, I had visions of a large, formal court with dozens of people and me standing in the witness box.

The citation had said 9.30am so I turned up a few minutes early. There was hardly anyone else around, and I was directed to sit in a general witness waiting room. Over the next half hour the place started to fill up and a couple of court staff appeared to talk to everyone, in turn, and explain what might happen during the day. Their spiel was very customer-friendly and they even had pictures of the courtroom where I might be called to give evidence. I asked about the apparent absence of a jury box and was told that since it was only a minor assault, it wouldn't be a jury trial. This was news to me of course, but it did take an edge off my nervousness. For around six or seven weeks, ever since I received the citation, I had been treating this much in the same way as an appointment for major root canal work.

However, seeing a picture of the modest courtroom where everything would happen, estimating that there would be very few people there – sheriff, clerks, someone from the fiscal's office, defence lawyer, me and the ned – I started to warm to the idea of standing there saying, 'Yes, that's the young chap who knocked me to the ground and made my face bleed.'

Time passed. Nothing much happened. Some witnesses were called for other cases. The court staff had said that the very worst scenario would be hanging about until 4pm, but that most witnesses were done and dusted by lunchtime. Then not long after 10.30am, when I had been there for just over an hour, the case was called and I went to the desk at the front of the witness room. A bored man in court uniform said, 'He changed his plea to guilty, you can go.'

'You mean that's it? No evidence, no need for a witness, I can just go home?'

'Yeah,' he said, then turned his attention to other matters.

As dismissals went, this struck me as remarkably unceremonious. I wandered back through the court building towards the exit, via the main corridor outside the individual courtrooms, and the sheer scale of the day's business started to dawn on me. There were a lot of people in sportswear talking to a lot of smartly-dressed young solicitors. When I got home, I had a look around the web and found the day's court roll online. My punchy-guy was 'accused number 88' on a list that extended to over 180. These were all criminal cases which made up the bulk of the court's business, but there were also civil actions being heard, summary cause actions and small claims. Criminal justice – which is inevitably seen from a highly individualised viewpoint by the accused, the witnesses, the thumped and unthumped alike – was being administered here on an industrial scale. The ability to walk along Montgomery Street without being assaulted, the pain of being struck, the emotional and psychological aftermath, the situation that led the laddie to getting off his tits then smacking a stranger around the head – all seemed to take a distant second place to the court's bureaucratic grind. And it was only a minor assault after all: no jury needed. Man gets hit, no one died, no lasting damage.

On Wednesday, I called the Witness Service to find out punchy-boy's punishment. They referred me to the Procurator Fiscal's Office who referred me on to the Sheriff Clerk's Office. From a fast-talking lady there, I discovered that he had been fined £360. No one had asked my name during these calls, I just said I had been cited as a witness and that seemed to suffice as justification for my curiosity. The lady from the Sheriff Clerk's Office then said that a sum of £130 in compensation had been awarded as part of the judgement, and mentioned my name. I assume the cheque is in the post.

//story ends//

34
Glenbervie | 7 April 2011 - 10:44am

Fascinating

well to me at least, but then I have toyed with the idea of applying to become a magistrate. Standing outside a court is a fascinating experience - the well paid lawyers and their chavier clients mingling to get through security and to have a fag break. And the sheer number of people involved! As you say an industrial process. To each victim there is a personal story - but taken on mass there is just a volume of cases to deal with.
Those of us who are not really involved with the law don't appreciate how different it is to the telly. Lawyer friends tell me that it is like sausage making - the details can put you off, so best to not think about it too much.

1
paulwright | 7 April 2011 - 9:33am

Until 2007, I used to be a

Until 2007, I used to be a Procurator Fiscal Depute (a prosecutor, in English). I worked in Edinburgh from about 2002 - 2004. It seems that things haven't changed much since I left.

The office in Edinburgh got around 23,000 cases reported to it every year. A large number of those would be traffic cases. Some would be sent to the District Court (the lowest court) and some would be dealt with by way of a fixed penalty fine. A tiny fraction would be dealt with by jury trial. Most assaults would go to the Sheriff Court, to be tried by a Sheriff sitting alone. Of those that are sent to the Sheriff Court, only a small amount ever make it to trial. People plead guilty, witnesses lose interest (or never had interest in the first place) and evidence changes. What no one tells you in advance is that the chance of you ever giving evidence is actually quite small.

The problem with the court on a day to day basis is, as you noticed, volume. There were 180 cases in court on your day. That is probably quite a light day, although the majority of those hearings would be procedural. I would often have 15 trials to deal with on one day (my record was 23, when I prosecuted in Glasgow). Although I would always do my best to speak to witnesses, it was impossible to speak to everyone beforehand, and equally difficult to speak to them after the case had been dealt with.

The reasons why he might have left pleading guilty to the last minute include a hope that you wouldn't turn up and so the case would be droppped; a hope that it might be adjourned through a lack of court time so he could put off the evil day; or, he may not have remembered anything and it was only when his solicitor could sit him down and read the evidence to him that he realised he was stuffed.

What you have also not been told, and I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, is that you are unlikely to see that cheque any time soon. The majority of people convicted are from what the Queen Mother would call "the lower orders". Chances are that your ned is on benefits and has been ordered to pay at something like £5 a week which will go to paying off both the fine and the compensation. You won't get the cheque until he has paid it all, so you're looking at getting a cheque some time in 2013. Assuming, that is, that he doesn't miss a payment.

8
ratbiter | 7 April 2011 - 10:04am

The cheque's in the post!

The ground floor in Edinburgh Sheriff Court is a real eye opener any day of the week.

I just hope that the Sheriff Clerk's office remember to ask for your £130, a colleague is still in dialogue with them a year later about his award as they forgot to ask the defendant for it when he paid his fine.

Re-alloctaing the award from the fine doesn't seem to be an option.

Get your hands on a copy of Outlaws with Phil Daniels which gives a great insight into the world of a duty solicitor at the bottom end of the scale - and the music is great too.

0
JohnB | 7 April 2011 - 10:10am

That was interesting

Thanks.

0
DavidC | 7 April 2011 - 10:28am

Ah the wheels of justice....

A long time ago, my sister was going to University and stopped at my house opvernight in Manchester. Stupidly, as she had a loaded car, we decided not to unpack it all, taking only a few bits and pieces into the house overnight. The following morning revealed that the back window of the car had been removed, and the entire contents of her life removed. A quick scan around located the window, and the fingerprint man came and dusted and found several sets of prints, which belonged to a local well-known three streets away.

Needless to say, what followed was the largest insurance claim and shopping trip I'd ever been involved in....

I was cited to appear as a witness (not that I'd seen anything) at his trial at Manchester Magistrates Court. I turned up, spotted him and his brief (the conversation I overheard was along the lines of "it's all down to the fingerprints, Johnny"), and then I was approached by the prosecuting solicitor fellow - he told me that he had no idea why I'd been asked to attend, and confirmed to me that he'd agreed with the defence guy not to call me as they both agreed it was a waste of time....

So, off I went. I subsequently discovered that he'd been acquitted as the fingerprints guy hadn't bothered to turn up for the court.
Unbelievable....

0
jockblue | 7 April 2011 - 10:29am

And a rather easy way for him to lose just £360

If people can be (and regularly are) fined £500 for not putting their rubbish in the right bin, or up to £1,000 for neglecting to pay their TV licence, don't you feel he got off rather lightly for punching a stranger in the eye for no other reason than having taken a shine to your earphones, breaking the skin (i.e. legal "wounding") and causing severe bruising and, I'm sure, distress?

Sorry, but I get a bit medieval in my response to crimes of violence, regardless of the age or degree of off-their-titsness of the people who enjoy hitting people.

7
Archie Valparaiso | 7 April 2011 - 10:33am

Not quite...

Scotland has a completely different legal system to England and Wales, so any comparison to sentence levels wouldn't be entirely accurate.

Your chap who was fined £500 didn't put his rubbish in the wrong bin, he was fly tipping, which is quite a different beast. As for being fined £1000 for not paying your TV licence, that is the maximum possible fine. Your average punter in Scotland who didn't pay the licence fee would be lucky to have to pay more than £50. I'd be interested to know who was fined £1000 for not paying their licence fee, and even more interested to know why they didn't appeal.

We don't know anything about the offender in this case - whether he had any previous convictions, etc. Without more information, you can't say if the level of the fine (which, in my experience, is fairly average) was appropriate or not.

3
ratbiter | 7 April 2011 - 10:58am

As I said...

I get medieval. The consequences of any unprovoked assault that involves more than a shove (i.e. cuts, bruises, concussion and so on) should, if not always a custodial sentence, be at the very least a good few months of some deeply unpleasant community service - not just a fine to be docked from benefits and paid on the drip.

As things stand, when serious physical violence is equated with mere infringements of regulations - piffling cases of fly-tipping, minor tax-dodges, etc. - then something is well squiffy with the criminal-justice system.

George Michael went to prison for smoking a spliff and driving his car into the wall of a Snappy Snaps, remember. Did he cause more harm to any individual or pose more of a threat to society in general than the little piece of work who drove his fist into Glenbervie's eye?

5
Archie Valparaiso | 7 April 2011 - 11:30am

My 2p

Unfortunately, comparisons will always show the law in a bad light if you pick and choose. I don't for a second think the perpatrators of assault should get off lightly, and agree with the community service angle. However, I don't think fly tipping is 'piffling' in many cases. The amount of crap - tyres, cupboards, sofas - that gets left round my streets brings the area down and deserve to be brought to book.

And anyone caught allowing their dog to foul the pavement should be made to eat the evidence with their fingers. Firm but fair, that's me.

2
Jon | 7 April 2011 - 12:27pm

Comparing like with like

"Ooh, look, somebody's just thumped me in the eye and rammed shards of fractured sunglass lens into my gaping wound. Brings the neighbourhood right down, that."

"That's nothing. Somebody's abandoned an old sofa on the corner of our street. With stains on it and everything."

0
Archie Valparaiso | 7 April 2011 - 12:35pm

OK, I'll bite.

My original qualification:
I don't for a second think the perpatrators of assault should get off lightly

My actual point:
Piles of tyres, sackfuls of used nappies and so forth on street corners can produce the same effect as smashed bus shelters, graffiti or 'knocked out' street lights. If nothing is done about them, the affected area becomes more run down and encourages other kinds of crime - such as burglary and, yes, assault.

I'm not Hyacinth Bucket, I live and work in South East London (in environmental health). Please don't put words in my mouth.

2
Jon | 7 April 2011 - 1:12pm

Apologies

It wasn't my intention to put words in your mouth. But my use of "piffling" was meant in comparison with acts of physical violence, not to denigrate uncivic behaviour as unimportant per se. Again, it's a question of scale. If dumping a sack full of building rubble on some waste ground merits X as a punishment, then surely thumping somebody in the eye merits X and some - where "some" is something that is going to make the perpetrator go "ouch" and maybe, just maybe, reconsider thumping people in the eye as a viable option for future social interaction.

1
Archie Valparaiso | 7 April 2011 - 1:44pm

Thanks

We certainly agree on this. It's a frequently illogical system of punishment and violent crime deserves harsher penalties than many that are currently meted out.

1
Jon | 7 April 2011 - 2:28pm

Never mind medieval, go 21st Century.

Go biomass digestion for methane fuel. Clean, simple, elegant. It's a win-win solution for the justice system and the victims of violence.

1
Vulpes Vulpes | 7 April 2011 - 7:32pm

Tell you what

there's a bloke i wouldn't mind giving a shiner to (as would most of us I'd imagine)and i have been provoked, if i thought it would only cost me 360 quid,I'd do it in a heartbeat. The reality is very different,I'd be looking at 18 months minimum. I'm not condoning violence just making an observation.

0
Sour Crout | 7 April 2011 - 11:28am

How rude and unmassive of me

not to say thanks for sharing your post ,Glenbervie.
Incredible that stuff like this happens. Wonder what would have happened if you'd got up and punched the bloke back. How much would you have been fined ?.
Glad to hear there wasn't any lasting damage.

0
Sour Crout | 7 April 2011 - 11:34am

It is like that

I was out with a mate who got glassed. The guy got a fine and my mate compensated for about a grand.

Another friend of mine glassed someone and was sent down for three years. No difference in the cases. Just needs the judge to get up and think, I'm going to make an example of someone today, I suppose.

0
jimmyshoes01 | 7 April 2011 - 12:45pm

Those massive meet ups

are a bit rowdier than you lot let on.

3
Sour Crout | 7 April 2011 - 7:03pm

Disproportionate fines

This story doesn't involve courts, so it is not directly comparable. However it does bring into question punishments for fairly trivial transgressions compared with the punishment meted out to Glenbervies assailant.

A couple of years back a trader in Muswell Hill was fined £210 by Haringey Council for putting out refuse in the wrong colour bin bags. The fine was levied at the rate of £70 per bag.

I know this was the case because I was in a dispute with Haringey Council about their failure to empty my bin around the same time. I argued that if they could fine someone £70 for putting refuse in the wrong colour bag, wasn't I due compensation for their persistent failure to empty my wheelie bin. They duly coughed up £70, which to be honest I never expected to get.

0
Carl Parker | 7 April 2011 - 12:47pm

law /ass

Thanks for posting that. It was an interesting, if rather depressing, tale.

I'm with Archie on the 'justice' angle. The law should be hammering people for unprovoked crimes of violence. A fine of £360 ain't a hammering.

2
DC Eisenhower | 7 April 2011 - 11:21am

I get a trifle medieval too.

Crimes of unprovoked violence, breaking and entering, burglary: those are the ones I'd like to see proper, horrible, mandatory-minimum type custodial sentences for.

£360? For lamping someone, unprovoked, causing bleeding, bruising and distress? £360 which he won't be able to pay except in insultingly tiny increments (presumably because he has all those onerous crack payments to make)?

Frankly, this is where milquetoast liberal ol' me turns into a weird conflation of Genghis Khan and Richard Littlejohn. If he's in receipt of benefits and can't pay the money upfront, sorry chum. Chokey for you.

I know prison's expensive - much more so, probably, than paying the little bastard's benefits - but frankly I don't care. This kind of thing makes me vengeful. And I know - I know - justice and vengeance aren't the same thing. But surely the punishment ought to fit the crime more than this?

Sorry to hear it, Glenbervie. And sorry for getting so bloody worked up.

6
Bob | 7 April 2011 - 12:08pm

a soft hearted pinko liberal writes...

crime and punishment is where ideals and practicalities crash together. The problem with Chokey is that it costs society a fortune (more per year than Eton), damn near ends the chance of the jailbird ever getting a job (meaning more cost) and does not rehabilitate people. Meanwhile the perp has gone from sitting on a sofa, smoking dope and watching tv, to sitting in a cell, smoking dope and watching tv - some punishment (I exaggerate for comic effect).

Deterence is based on being caught, not the punishment. Would anyone have an affair if they were thinking "this will cost me £100k for half the house, the pleasure of seeing my kids grow up, half my pension, the love of their life, and huge amounts of stress and time"? No, they think "I won't get found out".

So the question is, should the rest of us pay a fortune to punish some twerp for hitting someone? How much of your tax money are you prepared to spend on prisons rather than schools?

Tough choices. Friends of my GLW's broke a shop window in Scotland. The Sheriff could have fined them or sent them to pokey for a bit - They got a fine, and both do their bit for society - one is now MD of a small company. If the Sheriff had decided to make an example of them....they would have also been thrown out of Uni, which would have meant no career etc. No easy thing to get the balance right.

4
paulwright | 7 April 2011 - 3:44pm

Just to add my 2p...

Chokey actually does, sometimes, work.

Without going into too much detail, my elder son has had a 'difficult' life. Adopted aged 8, he was already heading for trouble. We absolutely did our best, tough love, soft love, lots and lots of love. Kept telling him, if he kept on the way he was going, it would be referral unit, followed by borstal, followed by jail.

He knew we were right, but couldn't seem to stop himself. We were right, of course. The journey followed with grim inevitability.

Till he was as much of a twat as your ned that twatted Glenbervie. Only he got time. And it scared the living shite out of him. Knock on wood, crossed fingers and all that, but he's never been in bother since.

A fine would have made absolutely no difference to him.

4
Susie Baby | 7 April 2011 - 8:00pm

In general I agree but ........

"If he's in receipt of benefits and can't pay the money upfront, sorry chum. Chokey for you."

Would that not mean one punishment for the poor and one for the rich(er)? That somehow doesn't seem right.

People can be aggressive, violent bastards and hold down a proper job. Not that I'm suggesting this arsehole sits in that category. Surely your ability to pay a fine shouldn't determine the type of sentence (fine, community service, jail, etc)?

0
Grimmer | 13 April 2011 - 7:00pm

Just make Failure To Pay A Fine Within 28 Days

an imprisonable offence. Problem solved.

0
stimpy | 13 April 2011 - 7:09pm

I see what you're saying.

And it's an excellent point which I hadn't fully considered. But by the same token, if I attacked someone and got fined, I'd be instantly out of pocket to the tune of a few hundred quid. His fine will make chuff all difference to him, because it's paid in such tiny increments.

So actually, what you've got at the moment is people being effectively let off having to experience any painful consequences because they're poor. Which is just as wrong as the scenario you describe.

0
Bob | 13 April 2011 - 8:56pm

An educational tale

and I'm glad to read there is no lasting damage. Most people never have cause to be bothered by the law and when they do it is often a frustrating and inconvenient experience. I belong to the "flogging's not good enough" brigade on many of the cases I read about, especially as I used to mingle with defending solicitors. One of their clients used to go around with no means of identification on his person but was always sure to tuck a solicitor's business card in his sock in case of arrest.

What annoys me most is the lack of compensation to fit the crime at a time when law-abiding youngsters are getting into a lifetime of debt to better themselves through further education. For example, joyriders who write off a £10,000 car should have to cover that cost throughout their lifetime, regardless of the lack of readies when the incident occurred, instead of the cost falling onto insurance companies and higher premiums for the victims.

0
Beany | 7 April 2011 - 12:30pm

It does seem

that in cases like this, that the punishment can never fit the crime. Physical chastisement of the perpetrator is long in the past, they rarely have any money, so a fine's meaningless, an appearance in court holds no fears for them, they are there so often, and community service probably comes as a nice change, giving them something to do. I could cry 'Bring back National Service' but I doubt it would do anything other than frustrate those trying to administer it. At least Glenbervie's attacker did accept he was guilty, and was duly punished, and I fear that's the best we can expect. If only Australia wasn't full up, we could bring back transportation.

0
policybloke1 | 7 April 2011 - 12:38pm

Prison?

You left out prison.

0
Bob | 7 April 2011 - 12:44pm

Even prison,

like a court appearance, is a badge of honour in some circles and the idiot will get cheered upon his release and drinks brought for him all night. I know because they were some of my regulars when I owned a bar.

0
jimmyshoes01 | 7 April 2011 - 12:48pm

I'm sure.

But at least it gets them out of everyone's face for a bit. To be honest, if you chin someone and get sent away somewhere that prevents you chinning anyone apart from other convicts, I'm pretty comfortable with that. And if you do it again next time, you go away again, for longer, until you learn. And if you don't learn, eventually you get life. As in LIFE.

I know that's tremendously unreconstructed and all that, but as far as I'm concerned, you play by the rules or you don't get to play. I'm all for rehabilitation, but if you don't get rehabilitated for whatever reason, you need keeping away from everyone else.

2
Bob | 7 April 2011 - 12:56pm

Ha ha ha ROLFL

... how naive!!!

(I have £1,000,000 in a bank in Nigeria I'm looking to move. Couldn't help out could you old chap?)

0
thankudoctor | 7 April 2011 - 8:20pm

You're only seconds away from a nutter...

...just last night I was crossing the road and swerved left to avoid another pedestrian, he swerved right and pushed me in the ribs. Fortunately I am rather well built (hem hem) and didn't fall over. Given that this occurred at the junction next to Brixton Town Hall with buses everywhere it only really struck me what this bloke was *really* trying to do when I sat down on the tube. Glenbervie, you have my sympathy. As my old boss in a warehouse in Old Trafford used to say when another worker rang in to say they couldn't come in as they had been nicked again "Good grief, the mentality of these people"

1
Richie B | 7 April 2011 - 12:47pm

I was called for jury service at

Edinburgh Sheriff Court. Sadly, the case never happened (I assume the guy pleaded guilty at the last minute, as in your case), as I'd have been interested to see how the wheels of justice grind.

It did strike me that there are a LOT of people involved in every case (including the potential jurors), costing - I'm sure - a LOT of money. It also struck me what a depressing place that court is, to spend any time in.

Glad you're okay, anyway, and I hope the wastrel and his chums aren't still out there, making Leithers' lives a strain.

Thanks for telling the story in such an interesting, illuminating way.

1
iainiain | 7 April 2011 - 12:58pm

At least you still got your headphones

Perhaps a slightly cynical quip there. I was involved in a similar case earlier this year in Central London - losing my wallet, and ipod. My stolen Oyster card was used a few hours later, and this meant that the assailants journey (in 3 parts) was logged in detail. I'm fairly optimistic, since CCTV coverage in London is the most comprehensive in the world apparently, both on the transport system and on the streets.

I make a Police report on the night it happened. The short and tall of what I am told is "OK, but its a difficult time of year and you have to appreciate the backlog we have…"

A few weeks after the incident I make a phone call and am told "we are looking into it, but the transport Police are completely detached from the Westminster Police department, thats the reason for the delay". So I took this to mean at least, that investigations are still underway. The very next day I get a standard "insufficient evidence" letter, meaning that they are not looking into it after all, case is closed. Make of this what you will folks, I know what I made of it.

… The Scottish and English legal system. My experience Glenbervie of the Scottish legal system is that its pretty rough, and they, public servants remember, don't feel they owe you such luxuries as courtesy. The English system, although its pretty strung out and lazy, is much more civilised.

0
Marky | 7 April 2011 - 1:28pm

The reason that the Scottish

The reason that the Scottish system appears discourteous is nothing to do with the public servants not feeling that they owe you courtesy. It is simply because of volume. On any given day, especially in the larger courts dozens of witnesses (potentially hundreds in Glasgow) will have been cited to attend. At most, there will be 3 or 4 prosecutors to deal with them. There is simply not time or capacity to speak to each witness properly.

1
ratbiter | 7 April 2011 - 3:00pm

Gripping!

An interesting story, well-told.

Glad to see that you are able to look at the whole thing philosophicaly. If we ever have an Embra massive meet-up I'll tell you my own (slightly odd) victim-of-crime story.

Remember and take a wheelbarrow with you to Fopp to carry away your £130-worth.

0
Lando Cakes | 7 April 2011 - 8:13pm

As a retired Detective.....

...your story is unfortunately all too familiar.

In fact you got a guilty plea, and compensation. To be far that's a bloody good result. Solicitors will have encouraged chummy to plead not guilty just to string out the leagl aid. then a quick word for a guilty plea will result in another fee with no work done.

Cynical moi?????

0
thankudoctor | 7 April 2011 - 8:15pm
grac | 7 April 2011 - 8:33pm

Bloody hell

What an interesting read, although I'm really sorry you had to go through that. Hope you're fully recovered now!

1
Hannah | 7 April 2011 - 8:48pm

For those who are interested..

.. in this sort of thing - I found this blog really interesting. It's a magistrate's blog.

http://thelawwestofealingbroadway.blogspot.com/

It certainly explores some of the frustrations & / or thinking behind some of the sentences dished out.

0
the mvps | 8 April 2011 - 7:24am

Sorry to hear about your assault

But, if it's any compensation, you've told the tale well.

In most circumstances, I'm a pathetic, lefty liberal willing to understand why some people behave differently to others and that, in many cases, those that behave badly haven't had the opportunities that the rest of us have had.

But violence, intimidation and bullying bring out my illiberal borderline fascist twin. I've never hit anyone since primary school. I can't see why anyone else has ever had to other then in self defence. Violent crimes deserve punishment and I don't mean a fine that will never be paid. And I don't necessarily mean prison.

In the case of the OP, if his assailant had gone to prison it wouldn't have been for very long. But, proper, hard, community service - at a time when he'd rather be out with his mates and that lasts for a long time might cause him real inconvenience and make him think twice.

And people on community service should be clearly identifiable. Not to humiliate them but so that people see that community sentences mean something and have more faith in them as an alternative to prison.

The snag in my argument is what do you if they don't turn up for community service? I'll get back to you on that.

0
Thomas the Rhymer | 7 April 2011 - 10:03pm

That's when you send

for Judge Dredd to bring them in.

0
Beany | 7 April 2011 - 11:21pm

There is a presumption here.....

That the idiot who did this to GB is on benefits etc.

Not that it makes any difference to the assault and on balance you are probably correct, but I have known plenty of seemingly upstanding citizens, some of whom are employed in high paying jobs, who, when they've had a few, become very handy with their fists and enjoy a bit of mindless violence including clumping strangers in the street.

1
art vanderlay | 8 April 2011 - 12:49am

True enough, but...

...it's a safe assumption that someone's not in a high paying job if their fine has to be split into £5 increments, isn't it?

0
Bob | 8 April 2011 - 6:31am

Well....

I'm pretty sure that was only ratbiter's suggestion of how it is likely to play out, GB was only told he has been awarded 130 quid.

0
art vanderlay | 8 April 2011 - 7:52am

Yes, I was only guessing

I prosecuted in Scotland for roughly 6 years. The majority of people convicted of random acts of thuggery that I saw convicted were people on benefits. The remainder tended to be people with low paying jobs, for whom paying the fine off quickly would still be difficult.

0
ratbiter | 8 April 2011 - 8:34am

You're quite right, Art.

A quick reread shows I was making lazy assumptions. Apologies.

0
Bob | 8 April 2011 - 8:57am

No worries

And unfortunately the assumption will likely be a correct one

0
art vanderlay | 8 April 2011 - 9:36am

In my experience

The magistrates tend to think everyone involved are the same. It's hard to tell who started it, they are all (mainly) of the 'lower orders' and if it's in the evening, what were they doing out so late at night in a town centre (as though you have no right to walk the streets in safety after a certain time). Violence never really affects them that much, so you are more likely to get a large fine (or a prison sentence) for stealing statues (or suchlike) from a country home. Violent people should be punished a lot more, and l have had various dealings with courts and have a lot of violent friends. I would however, start with hard community work when it affects people the most, making them work (hard) on weekends, Friday nights etc when they want to be with their mates. Then, if they keep offending, it's time for prison.

0
Spider-mans arc... | 8 April 2011 - 9:43am

Fast & loose

Morning all - many thanks indeed for all the replies to my post, and for all the kind words of commiseration. Having written something so lengthy in the first place, it was always an intention to revisit it later, but I don't want to bore you all stiff, so I'll try and keep it brief. (Well, less expansive than it would be otherwise...)

Interesting that thankudoctor mentioned legal aid, as two other people away from this message board said the same thing: punchy-boy's lawyer made him plead not guilty in order to inflate his/her legal aid fee. (Those other people were a police officer, and someone who knows the legal aid system in Scotland inside out.) However, ratbiter's insider view - as a procurator fiscal depute - plainly rings true. I guess then that despite the fact that punchy-boy actually did the deed, his solicitor was acting in his best interests by getting him to plead not guilty last October on the grounds that perhaps no witnesses would turn up at the eventual court hearing in April. Although I don't know the mechanism, this would also have the happy, coincidental effect of more legal aid £££ for the the solicitor concerned. The wheels of justice explained.

Sour Crout wondered what would have happened if I punched my assailant - well I've had a good few months to think about random violence. Although at the time, I was angry/violated/anxious/cheesed off and spent some (un)happy evenings pondering the effect of a baseball bat smacking the guilty in the mouth, due reflection confirms that violence begets violence, also that it's not containable. ("I only head-butted him once officer, but he fell and hit his head on a sandstone step and now he's dead, oops.") Pepper spray seems to be one answer in terms of defending yourself (legal in various US states and parts of Europe) but once you let that cat out of the bag, every tanked up ned on a Friday night would have a canister in his pocket for offensive purposes; not good. There's no substitute for just not being punched in the first place. Mind you, although I can be relatively sanguine about myself - some months after the event - i suspect my attitude would be 180 degrees different had the assault involved anyone else, especially people i know and care about, and especially especially the most vulnerable subset of that group. Or put another way, had punchy-boy twatted my 77-year-old mother instead of me, I'd be quite happy to see him pulled apart by horses on a frosty morning in February and his steaming bits casually tossed to all points of the compass.

As for Archie's question of whether punchy-boy got off lightly, I think we can safely say that he is indeed under 25 and on benefits with an income of fifty odd quid a week. The fine (£360) plus compensation (£130) comes to more than nine weeks' income which is quite a sum for him, relatively speaking. The downside is that this cannot be gathered at once so, as was suggested above, if it's collected at a fiver a week, it's going to take almost two years to pay it off - while the effect to punchy-boy just prevents him buying two pints of lager over a seven day period during that time. Big effing deal. Then again, punishment implies deprivation and how do you take something away from someone who doesn't have anything? Taking it as read that prison is expensive and harsh for one punch, a fine and a criminal record mean little to someone with no qualifications, no career prospects, no professional reputation, no money and no future. (At this point, I'm in danger of essaying into a lengthy digression on the underclass, its social cost, its growth since the late 1970s and how it's affordable in boom times but more problematic in unboom times - a topic for another post however.)

The best punishment suggestion I think came from Spider-mans arch enemy - make the bugger do community service exactly when he doesn't want to, and make it difficult (cleaning up spew and piss on Lothian Road or the Cowgate on a Fri and Sat evening while wearing a pink hi-vis bib, drunk passers-by shouting, 'Loser!' at him, perhaps).

Anyway, this is now more than long enough - sincere thanks for reading. When the compensation cheque arrives in 2013, I'll buy you all a drink.

6
Glenbervie | 12 April 2011 - 8:01am

My 2Pworth

In the mid 90s I was manager of a shop in Torry, Aberden (Glenbervie, you know Torry I trust?)
This young druggie had pinched some stuff and was heading swiftly up the road, so I followed him, alone.I asked him for the loot back, and lets be done with it, chum. The Fucker nutted me then pushed me straight through the glass window of a chemists. Unfortunately for him I had a grip of his lapels and we both crashed into the chemists shop, with glass breaking everywhere.
Not a scratch on me. Unbelieveably. We rolled about the floor, exchanging punches, and in his case, spittle. I got him in a headlock but he then clamped his teeth around my right ear and started to chew. Boy that hurt. Thankfully some Police arrived, so he legged it, followed by myself and the two Polis. We cornered him in a garden, whereupon he picked up a clothes pole and battered the nearest Bobby over the head with it.
Then he went down, sorely, and was taken away.
I ended up in Aberdeen A&E to get my badly chewed ear treated.
The following day I got a visit from the two Polis who told me that the guy had hepatitis C ("junkie flu")and was HIV positive ("junkie measles"). Not nice news to hear, considering we had exchanged some bodily fluids.
He was due in court some months later, but did not turn up, so a warrant was put out for his arrest.
When he eventually did go to court he was charged with 7 offences, to wit: Theft/ damage to public property/ assualting a Police Officer/ breach of the peace/ resisting arrest/ assualt and contempt of court.
He pleaded guilty to the two assault cases, his plea was accepted by the Fiscal and he got, wait for it, 200 hours community service.
Meanwhile I had to wait two loooong years to get the all clear from the blood nasties.
Justice?

3
geacher53 | 13 April 2011 - 7:44pm

Words fail me.

That's outrageous.

0
Hannah | 13 April 2011 - 7:58pm

Extra points for knowing the street I lived on as a kid...

I think 200 hours of swimming on the seaward side of the south breakwater in September would have been more appropriate for your junkie?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/evanmichaelimages/4971708601/ (Not my pic.)

Otherwise, not sure what to say apart from, "Fuck," and that I'm very glad you got the all clear.

A long time ago (1985-87) I worked as a welfare rights adviser and I think it was back then that I realised that law (bureaucratic administration of statute) and justice (fairness applied, wrongs righted) are two very different things. When an individual looks to the system for the latter, what they often get is the former.

PS: Also had a look on Google Street View to remind myself where the chemist was on Victoria Road, assuming that was the window you went through...

0
Glenbervie | 13 April 2011 - 9:25pm

Glenbervie

'twas that very window.......
If you are a Torry Loon, you may know the name of the junkie (passed away due to overdose a year or so after the assualt). An old cartoon character in the Daily Record called Angus shares his surname...

0
geacher53 | 14 April 2011 - 10:01am
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