Entertainment For Lively Minds
The Half Moon, Putney, to close as a music venue.
Posted by Beezer on 11 December 2009 - 10:07am.
A real shame. Last band on in January next year unless Young's Brewery change their mind.
But why? I thought music venues such as this and others were the generators of revenue for bands of all shapes and sizes these days.
Though it seems putting a band on in a pub these days is becoming 'too expensive through excessive regulation' says De Doo Doo De Da Da Hitmaker (DDDDDDH) Sting.
Sigh. What say you?
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Surely its...
..De Doo doo doo de da da da hitmaker, making that DDDDDDDDH.
*Coat obtained, door headed for.....
Well spotted
It's not often I miss a DD.
Oh God. I'm Jim Davidson. Kill me.
Ah, don't be too hard on yourself...
...there is at least one funny Jim Davidson joke.
"My wife and I have just had a happy event, and as a result she's pregnant".
Boom, and furthermore Tish.
*Did I leave another coat here? I'll just get it....
That's really sad. I've seen....
...many a good band at the Half Moon, and it's got a hell of a pedigree: EVERYONE'S played there.
While I'm certain the Tories will have a good old go at deregulating all the headline-grabbing, Mail-pleasing things like health and safety (not to mention City finance), I can't see them rolling back regulation on something as nasty and messy as live music. They're only "anti-state, anti-regulation" when it suits them. When it comes to people actually doing things like - yuck - going to GIGS and stuff (just imagine!), they'll be perfectly happy to be as authoritarian and top-down as you can imagine.
I'm naturally a bit of a lefty, but I can't help feeling that this is one area where the state really needs to get its nose out. I mean, the Half Moon has been a gig venue for fifty years. If you move there and the noise on gig nights is a big surprise, more fool you for not doing your homework before signing on the dotted line.
It's a bit different for venues that suddenly start up live music: I can see how local residents might have some cause for complaint there. But no-one IS starting up new live music venues, because it's too damn expensive to run them.
Again, this is not something you'll often hear me say about anything, but in this case, regulation is killing a great and energising British tradition.
Those evil Tories, eh
Even ill-conceived and badly-drafted Labour government legislation is somehow their fault.
And they’ve obviously cast some sort of wicked spell over Feargal Sharkey. He seems to think that the Shadow Minister responsible for this area is both sympathetic to the plight of live venues and keen to review and amend the legislation.
http://www.ukmusic.org/comment/169-the-licensing-act-is-not-working
If you read my post carefully
...you'll see that I didn't blame the Tories for drafting the legislation; I said they would almost certainly do nothing to repeal it, despite being supposedly anti-regulation.
And I finished by saying that regulation IS killing music NOW, which is implicitly a criticism of Labour policy.
I'm surprised...
...you manage to turn this into a party political matter.
Most of the regulation that has affected pubs has been introduced in the last ten years, mostly in the name of public health and environmental concerns (smoking, noise reduction etc). And regarding the noise issues, I think your argument is a bit harsh. I miht approve of the idea of noisy venues but move one near to me and watch me turn into the biggest nimby you've ever met. I don't sympathise with the Caveat Emptor argument where this is concerned. Venues open and close and change their use all the time. They're not like Heathrow airport.
But ultimately it's only a great British tradition if the British public still do it and they don't. Just ask the bands who are trying to get booked at these venues. They can only get in if they promise to bring a load of people with them. This is the bit they find really hard. When people go out they want things to be big and special not modest and unpredictable. The same issues are facing cinemas. People have lots and lots of choices for entertainment nowadays. All the legislation in the world isn't going to change that.
I wasn't being party political.
If anything, I was observing that a change of government won't signal a change of policy. If that wasn't clear, my bad, as I'm told the kids say.
And I'm prepared to accept...
...that maybe applying caveat emptor universally to houses near venues is probably a bit harsh, but in the case of the Half Moon? It's been a live music venue as long as Heathrow's been an airport...
A small tragedy
I've played there a good few times myself over the years but, more importantly, so has everyone else. It's one of that small group of truly legendary venues that can claim to have played a singificant part in the history of British popular music
It'll be sad to see it go, especially, if it's just down to licensing restrictions.
Half Moon Putney = Hank Wangford Band....
...at least for me. Though I did see others there it's the Wangfords, especially in the Andy Roberts/Brad Breath et al. incarnation, that I particularly, fondly, remember. Shame the Half Moon's going the same way as my youth.
Some mentions of "the kids" and "youth" above.
Is that the point, is it just us, the Pipe Smoking Slipper wearing of the Massive that are dewy eyed over these things?
It's a bit like Woolworths, many mourned its passing, but how many had shopped there in the last five years?
There are many famous venues in Belfast that have closed, and I feel sad about that, but would I be going regularly if they were still there? With three kids and a mortgage, and the fact it takes two days to get over a night out? No chance.
Harsh reality bites, and unfortunately no amount of nostalgia will change that.
Kids today spend money on mobiles, apps and sweets. And drink, probably. I wonder what they will mourn the passing of in 25 years time?
Live music
has not been the same in London at least for over 20 years. I was playing gigs and going as a punter during that time and from a musician's point of view getting people in the doors was a nightmare.
Most venues required you to bring in at least 20-30 people before they'd ever consider booking you again. Now if I said it was a birthday drink-up or celebrating the fact that I'd scratched my head I'd probably get twice that into a pub, but say it was my band playing and....tumbleweed blowing across the floor of the Bull And Gate on a wet Wednesday evening was a familiar sight.
The Half Moon has spent a lot of time the past ten years putting on that one time saviour of the live venue's bank balance, the tribute band. I was once told that I'd do far better putting together a tribute band in terms of audience and therefore money, and that the future involved no original bands for some venues.
Clubbing took over in London from live music, at least amongst the people I knew. £10 to get in the door, £20 quid for 'refreshments' and a whole night of music. Compare that to an evening in the Bull And Gate...
Controversial statement
Once you get below a certain level - your O2s and Hammersmith Apollos - live music is more driven by the desire of musicians to perform than the desire of audiences to be entertained by live music.
Discuss.
I have only recently...
..started playing live, in a very small way, with a 3/4 piece acoustic covers act. We have played a few gigs, mostly in Donegal, and for the most part, audiences will either sit and listen, or leave. Happy to report that we have had more listeners than leavers, but when you're playing to a max of 80 people, its maybe not that big a deal.
We love playing. Are we there just to make sure the establishment we are playing gets a late licence? Probably. Do the audience come to see us, specifically? No. Do they enjoy us? I hope so, and since we are getting asked back, we must be OK. Definitely the main driver is the fact that we love playing.
Probably fair.
The number of people who would seriously consider going to a pub to see a band playing originals is, I suppose, vanishingly small. Shame, though. Twasn't ever thus.
Is it fair to suggest that the commodification of music has led to punters relying on media sources to tell them which bands are worth a listen, rather than popping down the local on spec? I honestly don't know, because I can't ever remember a time when the buzz around a band genuinely started at that grass-roots level - it's always taken a few reasonably high profile journalists to start the ball rolling.
Was it ever the case that bands got into the general public consciousness *primarily* by punter word of mouth, with little media help?
But anyway, long story short, I really like the Half Moon, and the Bull and Gate, and the Dublin Castle, and I really would rather they were able to stay open, and the licensing laws really aren't helping.
"Twasn't ever thus?"
I can remember two periods when people turned up to hear live music by unknown bands: the first was in the mid-sixties when there was a certain repertoire that all bands could play ("Knock On Wood" etc) and no evening would end before you got to hear at least half a dozen numbers that everybody in the hall was familiar with. The second was in the mid-to-late seventies (as punk shaded into mod) when the same thing applied. When I first went to see The Jam they did Motown covers and the like. The Sex Pistols did the Stooges. Everybody did the tunes it took to get the room going. I really think the problem is that musicians fail to understand that just because they can play doesn't mean that they can write songs.
There won't be many people at your local church hall this weekend if the Parish Players are doing "The Mousetrap". There'd be a damn sight fewer if they were performing something written by the director.
So...
Your conclusion is no one should write any more songs? Unknown musicians should only play songs by well known musicians, who should themselves only "play some old" and nothing off the new album, which it would be better if they didn't record at all as people will only be interested in the old ones? Of course it would be better if unknown musicians didn't play at all because no one is interested anyway. Eventually the well know musicians will all die and we'll have no more music.
Pretty depressing outlook Dave.
Nobody said that
The great songwriting teams started by performing other people's songs and then slowly started writing their own. The mediocre songwriting teams - and there are squillions of those - start off with their own and then write like there's no tomorrow.
The people who write songs should be - here's a revolutionary thought - the people who are really good at it, not the people who feel that their ownership of a guitar and mastery of a few chords entitle them to bore the rest of us with their not very interesting compositions.
Some of the greatest musicians of the 20th century never wrote any of their own songs. Some of the most mediocre dullards of our time have "written" thousands of song and think we should all pay to hear them.
There have been thousands of actors but only a few - Shakespeare, Pinter, Osborne, Patrick Marber etc - felt that their experience in acting allied to their technical mastery and the fact that they had something they wanted to communicate, entitled them to write plays. It was the same in music until the success of the Beatles convinced every band that they could write similar sparkling material. They couldn't.
The point is
...everyone has to start somewhere. Getting a guitar and a few chords and trying to write is what starts and refreshes the flow of good songs. Or do you think people are born with "Good songwriter" printed on them somewhere so that we know who should be allowed to write songs and who shouldn't? The good stuff will naturally surface and the crap stuff will disappear. When I see some 18 year old at an open mic night droning out their latest masterpiece I am delighted that the creative flame still burns somewhere. The last thing I want to hear is another turgid version of "Yesterday".
Clearly there are great performers who aren't writers, and vice versa.
I think you're right there
I couldn't tell you the amount of gigs I've played to an audience consisting of the other bands on the bill and possibly girlfriends and boyfriends of the bands. Usually the drummers.
There's a horrible sinking feeling you get when, by twenty minutes before the first band is due on stage nobody is coming through the door.
It's second only to the venue emptying after the first band, who brought their audience by coach from Whitby for the night, go home. And take their audience with them.
The pub gig as primary school nativity play
The audience for live music in pubs etc., if you stripped out family/ friends etc. would be the same as for primary school nativity plays if you stripped out doting parents/grandparents. In fact anyone attending a primary school nativity play who wasn’t directly related to any of the performers would probably attract police suspicion. I think in the case of pub gigs that would be a bit harsh and heavy-handed.
Replace the words “live music” with the words “amateur sport”
Replace the words “live music” with the words “amateur sport” and you don’t have a “controversial statement”, just a plain statement of fact.
Over the years I’ve huffed and puffed around football pitches, cricket fields, tennis courts, golf courses etc. just as thousands of other people up and down the land have. At no time has it ever even crossed my mind that anyone might want to watch my or my fellow-players’ endeavours for entertainment value. And as for paying to do so ...
I imagine the compulsion to play music isn’t much different from the compulsion to play sport for those so inclined. But musicians seem to expect that they’re somehow entitled to an audience and feel genuinely aggrieved that they can’t command one. Perhaps local councils should lay on practice rooms for bands where they can play away to their hearts’ content the same way they lay on facilities for dreadful footballers. And the rest of us can go about our business roundly ignoring them.
I genuinely never realised
how many people there were who like music but also despise musicians.
Despise musicians?
I know plenty of amateur musicians and certainly don’t despise them. Playing music is a great thing to do. I was replying to DH’s observation that a lot of live music happens more because people want to play it than because people want to listen to it, and making the comparison with people who play sports etc. because it’s an enjoyable thing to do but don’t expect “the public” to want to watch it.
Without an audience big league professional sport wouldn’t exist. But amateur sport would. It doesn’t depend on an audience for it to be enjoyable and worthwhile for the people playing it.
Is music different?
Hmm
You still seem to have a pretty low opinion of musicians - no one has to go to see them...
"musicians seem to expect that they’re somehow entitled to an audience and feel genuinely aggrieved that they can’t command one. Perhaps local councils should lay on practice rooms for bands where they can play away to their hearts’ content .....and the rest of us can go about our business roundly ignoring them".
Heppo's comment is just silly.
I don't know which comment you're talking about
I don't despise musicians but I do resent their apparent assumption that we always want to listen to them. Many's the party I've been to where the enjoyment of most of the people attending has been significantly impaired by the fact that some people felt what the occasion demanded was a live band featuring some of the guests.
I won the English Reading And Speaking Competition at school but I don't suggest that I should entertain the party with my rendition of Wilfred Owen's "Strange Meeting", nor do the many women who are usually standing there praying for it to stop put themselves forward to reprise the medley from "Grease" with which they enthralled the rest of the sixth form.
There's one reason above all that guys in band feel that they've got carte blanche to entertain us even when we haven't asked to be entertained and that's *volume*. If their performance consisted of them playing something on the piano they wouldn't do it because it would be perfectly obvious to them that nobody was enjoying it. I have lots of friends who play in fun bands and they're the first ones to admit that they do it entirely for their own fun. That's fine. Long may they continue to do so. But the rest of us don't have to like it.
The idea that all those indie bands doing radio sessions consisting entirely of their own material are serving some apprenticeship in songwriting is unconvincing. They're doing it because they've grown up with the idea that writing your own material is what musicians do. Until 1969 it was something that they occasionally did when they showed a special talent for it. Since then it's been something they all do because they think that's what they're supposed to do. It's like me thinking that just because I can type a bit that I have a novel in me. If I do, that's probably the place it should stay.
"I won the English Reading and Speaking Competition..."
Presumably the kernel of the idea that eventually flowered into http://www.truestoriestoldlive.com ? Some people standing in a room doing a performance of some material of their own devising? Sound familiar?
As it happens, I've found that many, many women at parties can't wait to get up and do a turn, except they don't do a Grease medley - it's usually "I Will Survive", but as you say, the rest of us don't have to like it.
The statement "But musicians
The statement "But musicians seem to expect that they’re somehow entitled to an audience and feel genuinely aggrieved that they can’t command one." seems like an awfully sweeping one. I wonder who all these egoists actually are. Certainly the working musicians whom I know aren't anything like this caricature. On the wold they're a decent bunch who just have a desire to get their music out there and if people like it - brilliant! - if they don't they don't. I can't say that any of the people I'm thinking about feel that they're owed an audience. On the contrary, most of them are working really hard at EARNING one through graft.
Of course, there are going to be the odd one or two who are more than a bit up themselves - but like in any area of life they're much the minority not the norm.
Agree
Agree
But none of this negates that fact that...
...a live music industry needs a range of types of venues to cater to the different levels of artist out there - and by that I mean the good ones who have an audience (of whatever size) that wants to go hear them play.
As it happens I just went to the Half Moon this week to see an artist (Amy Wadge) who we've seen a number of times. Now whether we'd seen her at the Half Moon or at the Hawth Theatre's Studio in Sussex, or a converted chapel venue in Huntingdon (all of which seat around 200 and at which we've seen her before) is irrelevant - she is an artist who can fill that size of hall. May be that she goes on to increase in popularity, may be that she doesn't - but that's what she does when she plays live. There's nothing wrong with sustaining a career that works at the small venue/arts centre/folk club level - in fact perhaps it's more laudable and realistic than the blind view that you're going to be the next Kylie. If venues in the sub-Empire/Apollo etc size range go what happens to grass roots, professional quality live music? Do we all just have to rely on the latest X-Factor live tour?
There's nothing wrong with being an artist who plays to this size of room - and some could argue that it's more what the future paradigm of the music industry may be about. As in any deliberately controversial statement there may be some truth in it (in certain cases) but there's also an awful lot of contradicting evidence).
Anyway, the Half Moon shutting as a live music venue would be a shame (and a gastropub future is the vibe I've been hearing).
Licensing laws?
Is this *officially* why the Half Moon is stopping music? (I ask because I don't know). I suspect it's more likely to be that the brewery thinks it can make more money turning it into a gastropub or something, that's more supposedly suited to the Putney demographic.
I've gone on about this elsewhere, but as I understand it, it actually costs nothing extra for a licensee to obtain a music licence (unlike before the regulations were changed). But I'm quite prepared to stand corrected on this.
Most of the moans I've heard...
...have been about the PRS licence, rather than the actual pub licence. I think, anyway. I know I've just heard a lot of moans about the cost of licencing live music.
That's what I'm on about
Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that now the music licence is one of various optional add-ons that a pub can include when applying for its main licence. And this costs no extra - unlike before, when local authorities set their own (sometimes extortionate) tariff for a music licence.
A meringue? Someone here must be properly up on this...
I don't doubt that...
...your comment about turning into a gastropub is probably a large factor. Meh, I dunno.
I attach the text of the the email newsletter I was sent
To be frank it doesn't clarify exactly why Youngs have decided to close down the musical enterprise.
'Due to market forces, the current economic climate and other circumstances
beyond their control, The Halfmoon will not be able to carry on as a music
venue after 31st January 2010.
The Halfmoon has been hosting live music regularly since 1963. Since that time
it has seen performances by, among others, The Rolling Stones, U2, The Small
Faces, Ralph McTell, Elvis Costello, Kate Bush and countless more.
As well as still catering for touring bands and artists The Halfmoon has, more
recently, been an important stepping stone for artists such as Kasabian,
Imogen Heap, The Wombats, Newton Faulkner, Mr Hudson, Amy McDonald
and Natasha Bedingfield. Oh, and Jamie Archer of X Factor fame! Ahem…
When bands are making the transition from playing in the corner of a pub to
much bigger venues, they need that stepping stone. Places like The Halfmoon
fill that niche.
Current tenant James Harris says "We are at the grass roots of live music and
The Halfmoon is an engine room for rising bands throughout the UK, who are
now running out of quality venues to play."
Band member, sound engineer and host of Halfmoon Unplugged - Red Bailey says
"It will be a sad day when The Halfmoon closes. I can’t think of many venues
I've been to who can cater for professional touring bands and rising unsigned
bands and are willing to treat the two no differently. Speaking as a band
member I'd say I haven't played at any 200 capacity venue that offers as good
sound/lighting production, atmosphere and door deal."
Without the right measures being taken The Halfmoon could easily join a
growing list of music venues that have closed in recent months/years. It would
be another blow to music and culture in London if The Halfmoon disappears as
well.
Even if you’ve never visited the Halfmoon but feel strongly about the
continuation of live music, please feel free to express your feelings to the
brewery in control of the decision to close the venue at:
feedback@youngs.co.uk
You can help save The Halfmoon. Please vote with your feet and come for a
drink, or come to one of our nightly live music shows. To see what's on visit
the gig guide at http://www.halfmoon.co.uk. If you can't make it down in
person then visit our forum here The Halfmoon Forum and show us some love
for all to see.'
Make of that what you will.
This just in
Cut and pasted from a newsletter I receive:
'Firstly, the wonderful news is that the Half Moon in Putney has been saved! It
took a tremendous effort from the owners, staff, bands and fans to persuade
the brewery where their best interests are, so enormous thanks to all of you
who bombarded Young's Brewey with indignant emails! For once, we've been
listened to - if only the government would do the same.... The Moon will make
some changes, have a revamp, and will soon be back to its former glory as one
of the UK's best live music venues'
Hurrah!
Excellent news!
Excellent news!