Entertainment For Lively Minds
The decline of the saxophone in pop
Posted by DougieJ on 3 October 2009 - 9:53pm.
Listening to the track below led me to ponder on the sad fate of the saxophone in pop. The 70s was its heyday of course, featuring in huge hits like Baker Street (although sadly not played by Bob Holness) and The Year of the Cat, but it seems to have fallen out of favour since then; Madness being the exception that proves the rule.
This Nick Drake song would probably be one of my favourites in any case, but when the sax comes in at around 1.34 it adds an air of big city melancholy which is entirely in keeping with the theme. Any other appearances of the sax in pop/rock/folk welcome.
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Us and Them
need I say more?
Indeed
but which one's Pink?
Heres A Sax Solo
The sax is a jazz instrument
Full stop.
Is that because you're a jazz purist
or a rock 'purist' who doesn't want anything not guitar, bass and drums polluting the genre.
It's just that I find cross-pollination of musical genres can work very well. As ever, The Beatles are a rich source of examples - the piccolo trumpet solo on Penny Lane, the harpsichord on In My Life, the string quartet on Eleanor Rigby, the cellos on I Am The Walrus etc. I would suggest they are all essential ingredients in the overall sound. Indeed, what is described as 'Beatles-esque' often involves the use of non 'rock' instruments, e.g. Tears for Fears' Sowing the Seeds of Love.
There's an interesting thread there
... bands or songs with instruments you don't normally think of as "rock" or "pop". I would start it but the risk that somebody posts "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" is too high.
I know what you mean
I was going to suggest Rod's early work, esp. the Every Picture Tells a Story album but that's more folk-rock. I'm sure there are many other instances of 'surprising use of non-rock instrumentation'. Roxy are probably the best example - oboes rock!
This one is not that relevant I grant you - piano - but it is deployed here by Jools Holland in decidedly non-rock style...
BTW - feel free to divert from sax-specific examples into general 'non-rock' territory!
It's not being purist
I love jazz saxophone but don't feel it suits rock music much. I have said on another recent blog that most rock songs which feature sax would sound better without it. I love Nick Drake, for example, but prefer Pink Moon and Five Leaves Left - largely because of the instrumentation.
but let's not mention the crap sax
on Lady Madonna
Having crap sax...
is better than having no sax at all.
Little Richard ?
Are you saying that all those Bumps Blackwell arrangements are, in fact, jazz ?
(I may not agree)
Zutons
Abi's lines added hugely to the early Zutons stuff. Bit too tasteful and buried on the last album though.
It's supply and demand
And demand is low
Apart from Madness...
... Spandau Ballet are the only band I can think of who had a saxophone player. I don't like them much.
all the lads get a chance to show off a bit here
And their first hit featured an oboe
Anybody in pop playing those these days?
BIG TRAIN
A great example
from one of the most influential bands ever, with Andy Mackay playing a key role.
As Ganglesprocket points out - Spandau Ballet and Madness are the only two post-seventies bands that spring to mind with a sax player as a band member.
I think it's best used sparingly, like an impact substitute perhaps, as in the Nick Drake example above. But what an impact...
Hit Me With Your Rythm Stick
Hit me, hit me, HIT ME,
Just how good were the Blockheads?
As I was a youth when this came out I saw this as a novelty record, but the playing on this and other Dury tracks like Inbetweenies and What a Waste is utterly brilliant.
I'm beginning to think 1980 was some kind of watershed for the sax. I blame synths...
Can't find a video unfortunately, here's a real footstomper
Morphine
that's a keen drug, I had a belt when I was last in for that "op I don't talk about"
trouser department and all that hem, hem
One band.. one saxophonist..
Two saxaphones!
And a bass player with only two strings on his axe.
Quality.
I concur
Let's not forget that that 2-string bass was usually played with a slide, too. Niccccee!
Play these loud and tell me it's not rock music
Rocket from the Crypt
it is Rock
and also The Clash by Numbers
Speedo's my fave
don't know if it is pop ... it is great anyway
The appearance
of a sax here caused a bit of comment among fans at the time:
Ladies and gentlemen...
the Golden Age of Rock n' Roll
it drives this classic
in other news
c'mon, where's the reviews guys n' gals?
Saw them last night
No sax. Joe Elliot spotted onstage for a bit of warbling. Good gig but not life-changing. I was tired.
Here's some sax. And a little guitar.
Lots of us play guitar and, let's be honest, we can all play this.
How many saxophonists are there out there, though, who can blow a tune like Candy Dulfer? Beautiful phrasing.
And a trim ankle if you watch the original video.
The Furs
Let's not forget the Psychedelic Furs like a sax or two.....
Apart from 50's Rock 'n'
Apart from 50's Rock 'n' Roll and 'Brown Sugar' (exception that proves the rule) the rooms marked 'pop music' and 'saxophone players' should be at opposite ends of the building.
Climax Blues Band.
Can't remember the front man's name, but he was a sax player.
As usual, the answer is
David Bowie - let's choose "Young Americans". But it could be a number of others.
He can play the damn thing himself pretty good - but his band here on a great version of the song features someone who can play it better - David Sanborn
Nona Hendryx and Luther V amongst the backing singers - not too shabby all in all - and the Dame himself has never sung better
"Showing nothing, he swoops like a song
She cries "Where have all Papa's heroes gone?"
sax
Andy Partridge once commented that playing the sax 'is like sticking an oil rig in your mouth.'
But anyway, the reason for the decline is down to the punk ethos. Punk may not have achieved much, but it did democratise music-making, in that you didn't have to be particularly good at playing an instrument. You can get quite far on the guitar, bass, drums and keyboard without lessons. But the sax? Too hard.
Democracy or anarchy?
Of course the reality was that many punk bands had good musicians playing in them, contrary to myth. And there was sax in punk, though of course it was much less common than in previous rock styles, and probably got dropped mainly due to being associated with uncool, progressive (not just prog) rock, with it's long tracks and lots of solos.
But I think it was post-'80s that sax really disappeared, as in the '80s there was still plenty of opportunity for it since soul was such an influence on cheesy (and a few not so cheesy) bands from then. In fact this kind of '80s music (Careless Whisper?) may well have been the final nail in the coffin for the sax. I'd say it just became associated with soul, funk and motown, and '70s rock, and didn't fit indie style that became prevalent, which was all about punk, post-punk and sixties jangly guitar, though there are always exceptions as soul/funk even influenced some indie, at least in '80s.
To my mind it's ridiculous to reject it as part of pop/rock - it's been on many of best records ever made, in all sorts of styles (I'm thinking of Junior Walker, Bobby Keyes, some Frank Zappa stuff, Madness etc). Anything that helps shake up predictable limited constraints of guitar, bass and drums is a good thing. But it's use did become a bit of a cliche I suppose. Time for a come back? Anyway here's a punk record with sax - and a great one too I reckon (X-Ray Spex 'The Day The World Turned Day-glo':
i am reminded of
the hawkwind tale of Nik Turner(?) playing sax onstage, and no sound coming out of the instrument depsite his best efforts... so he throws it across the stage and stomps on it, not only damaging the instrument but dislodging his stash which had been secreted in the bell... whoops.
actually a really easy instrument to play, once you get your head round all the rods and buttons... i had one for a few years, but found it very difficult to practise without annoying the nieghbours, and gave up after my fillings started to crumble.
my saxophone tutor, a buxom welsh lass played with joe harriot of the joe harriot and john mayer double double quintet, which in itself is damn good music: but her degree set-piece was an ambient track that she set-up with various guitar FX pedals and loops...
Here's a good one for you
was she punk? No, probably not, damn fine tune though
The Big Man
No Clarence Clemons... No Jungleland... That's all...
Hmm, it is a bit difficult to argue with this
Here's another one
in a similar vein to At the Chime of a City Clock. Again, the sax is a perfect fit for this fantastic song's post-60s, 'Withnail and I' vibe.
Rat Trap
Boom Town Rats
a 7" purchase for me all those many years ago ...
right under our noses
From this year, a soprano sax in hippity hop. Oh yes.
How did I miss that? SAX ERROR.