Entertainment For Lively Minds
The Damned United
Posted by Iainso on 18 July 2010 - 10:51pm.
Well, I wasn't expecting a love story, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I enjoyed the book even more, but the movie was still excellent.
Any thoughts?
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Reasonable.
Timothy Spall was excellent, a level he manages with extraordinary frequency.
Michael Sheen was good to very good.
I thought the book was stunningly good and the film glossed over Clough's drinking, his relationship with the press and the way he got a misfit bunch of Derby players to function as a team. The relationship with Peter Taylor was well done, though.
Similarly, as a Bury fan,
Similarly, as a Bury fan, I'd like to have seen some kind of recreation of the moment he sustained his career-ending injury against us on Boxing Day 1962.
Having Bob Stokoe stood over him accusing him of codding ("Not this lad, this lad doesn't cod," as the referee said) seemed to be a turning point in the book.
Missed it
and I haven't read the book yet, shame on me. Clough was a genius though and should have managed England, with Taylor. I also think Mr Mourinho knows all about Clough and bases his whole persona on him.
A true character of our age
From his committed socialism, total self assuredness, footballing genius and sad self destructiveness - ol' bighead was one of a kind.
The uncanny, chameleon like performance...
... of a man who truly, physically turns himself into the character he is playing is of course by Colm Meaney who is a facsimile of Don Revie.
Michael Sheen is good but he's no Meaney.
Yes.
The recreation of the Yorkshire TV interview was uncanny.
Quite good by the former star trekker
But I did think his accent went wandering once or twice. Sheen was very good though.
all the more interesting because
both Clough and Revie hailed from Middlesbrough. Sheen got Clough's twang to a tee. Meaney had a decent go with Revie
Hats off to the BBC
for recreating the 1970's in a better manner than the Best fillum on Sky the other evening. That was a a shocker.
I loved it
I saw it on DVD last year and again last night night on TV. On both occasions I wanted the film to carry on into the Forest years. Revie was great - sorry to speak ill of the dead but I delighted in recalling what a complete c*nt he turned out to be and how he died in disgrace.
I have one indirect contact with Clough: he was incredibly generous in time and cash to a school he was asked to present at an award ceremony.
I don't think Revie died in disgrace
Actually, when he died, the disgrace was that the FA didn't send anyone to pay their respects at the funeral.
The FA banned him from football for 10 years for resigning the England managers job (before they had the chance to sack him). I think time has shown Revie to be a better man than popular views would have it.
Both Revie and CLough
had teams of players who would have crawled over broken glass for their manager. The best managers do: those two, Shankly, Paisley, even Ferguson now (even though I dislike him in a number of ways)
I just have those popular views
For different reasons Revie is like Ron Atkinson - everything he did/achieved before that thing is kind of wiped out. As a Leeds fan (I think?) of a certain age you probably have strong positive views that the rest of us don't have.
Clough - Mould Broken
Clough was a great man, a generouse man, a kind man, a principled man.
Clough was a difficult man, a driven man, a self centred man, a destructive alchaholic.
Don Revie was, errr; words fail.
Provided you Don't Kiss Me
May I recomend the above book to any one wishing to understand the warts and all character.
Seconded
Great biography - we need more Clough like characters back in the game - people who stand up to the corporate bullshit and disregard the ego of young footballers. I remember clearly when Trevor Francis was awrded the 'Young footballer of the year' award and presenting it Clough said on national tv 'young man, take your hands out of your pockets'.
Gary Parker
A Hull City player went to meet Brian Clough who was interested in signing him. Parker, aware of Clough's reputation had his hair cut for the occasion. The first thing Clough says to him when they meet "Get your hair cut young man".
Best Clough quote "I'm not the best manager in the country but I'm definitely in the top one!"
Great acting, not a great film...
Lots of unnecessary plot direction in the manner of "It's your cousin Marvin, Marvin Berry!" Which, I know, was in someway required due to filling in the for the internal Clough narrative Peace describes so brilliantly in the book.
Sheen and Spall were excellent. The guy that played Revie (Colm Meaney?) looked like a young Terry Scott being permanently vexed because he's lost his Curly Wurly.
Having read the book...
Having read the book a few years ago I was pleased to finally get round to seeing the film.
Agree with the comment about the movie is a love story.
Didn't Taylor and Clough fall out again after their glory at Nottingham Forest, never to make up?
They did
but I remember seeing a very late Clough interview where it seemed that he may have regretted not speaking to Taylor before his death. It was almost like a family feud: loved him but couldn't bear to speak to him.
Yes
this was explored on the documentary which followed TDU. Taylor retired from Forest/football on health grounds, only to return six months later to manage, of all clubs, Derby County. To make this even more painful to Clough, he then bought Forest icon John Robertson without letting his old partner know. Clough reacted to this with high dudgeon, and vowed never to speak to Taylor again. They were never reconciled, which as has been mentioned, Clough greatly regretted; on the doc he was seen to attend Taylor's funeral.
Ashtrays
I loved the little 70s touches, none more than putting out ashtrays for each of the players in the dressing room.
Why the time shuttle?
Great performances, and great recreation of the 70's, as mentioned already. The one thing I found slightly annoying (ok, very annoying) was the switchback jumps in time - why was that necessary? It jumbled up the timeline for reasons which are not clear to me. And yes, would have loved it to carry on to the Forest years. Deepens the mystery of these driven managers - the obsessiveness appears to be compulsory in order to manage, and to get results, yet does it in the end eat them up from the inside?
The chronology
more or less followed the book; I think the idea was to give insight and context to where Clough had come from and the origins/development of his complex relationship with Revie's Leeds.
The Forest years were not part of this story - obvious but true.
A TV Movie...
with added swearing, very average I'm afraid especially as the book was excellent
Dirty Leeds
the real footage they used was amazing - I either never knew or had forgotten what vicious bastards they were. Bremner's kidney punch on Keegan, followed by a dive - you don't see anything quite as cynical as that any more.
Did you
not watch the world cup final?
Does that change
anything about the Leeds team? No-one doubts they were a very good side, with some brilliant players, but equally there is no doubt that on many occasions they chose to play the game in a snide, cynical fashion rather than just relying on the skills that they had in abundance. Even when they did play great football, there was an unpleasant edge to their cockiness:
Nope
But there is a fallacy that Leeds were the the dirtiest team ever to exist or that they are the only dirty team. The 1970 cup final shows Chelsea booting Leeds all over the park. But they also played some sublime football and Revie did admit to making the mistake of not letting the team express themselves earlier - they were more capable than even he gave them credit for.
The voiceover got on my nerves...
Don Revie was a great player, the Revie system confused opposing sides as he played as a deep-lying centre-forward, copying the Hungarian side. But as a manager, he turned a blind eye to some horrific tactics. Mind you, reputations tend to follow people around in the game. Nobody thinks of George Best as a thug, but just ask Glyn Pardoe. Or his shattered leg.