but its appeal is fast diminishing with long essays like this. I mean no offence to you Fuzzyface but I'm just not going to read it. Is this what the board's for?

I love it, you love it, we all love it but in the grand scheme of things, there's more important stuff. Love, life, death, making ends meet etc. and although music, films, books and art touch on these things and use them for inspiration, it's primarily a form of escapism.

And the reason no-one can reach a consensus? It's because there isn't a right answer. Everything's subjective and the reason we may value the opinion of the Word writers more highly than others is because their articles are interesting, informative, well-presented and are backed up with more knowledge than the majority of us possess. What you or I think is just as important as what anyone else thinks, it's how you say it that has the impact.

Oh, and I'd recommend The Wire. It may have been said here before somewhere but in my opinion, it's really rather good.

I argue with people about the Arts because it's fun to do so.
We really don't need to preface every comment with "I think..." or "it's just an opinion" because with the things we talk about on this blog that's self-evident.

But that's just my opinion.

George Monbiot the dryest dullest lest humourous man on the rapidly warming planet run for your lives.....

I agree you don't really need to say IMHO.

Also if you say all is subjective it's sort of killing off a certain line of discussion. I mean it's true but you can look at things in that way and also look at it in another way - as in acknowledging those who make music or produce art forms in terms of what signifigance they have in the history of that art form. You may not like that artist but you can't deny the importance of the part they played in the development of that art form. You can also consider something has value and worth but not like it personally, something about it just irritates you, the sound of the singer's voice etc.

I just think it's a bit more complicated than - it's all just personal taste. We do have a certain sense of/or feel for who 'the greats' might be. But it's clearly up for debate endlessly. It's complicated and can all get a bit fuzzy! IMO naturally.

When it comes to cultural opinions about art, music, literature, and so forth, the fact that our society is POLITICALLY a democracy is neither here nor there. Cultural opinion is an Anarchy, in the best possible sense: everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to freely attack or defend their own, or anyone else's, opinions. No consensus exists because that would make life terribly boring. I'm as entertained by a witty attack on Abba's music as I am intrigued by an erudite and passionate defense of their music. Sometimes the expression of these opinions might change mine, but usually not. The thrill is in the chase, as it were.

and the attention span of a

Welcome to the exciting cut and thrust of The Word blog. A cross between a BBC2 documentary and graffiti on a bog wall. It does what it says on the tin. It's a blog. It can be fun most of the time. You will get used to reading it and the urge to post can be simply unstoppable.

At the end of the day I go back to the conversation opener employed to good effect by a an old mate of mine.

"The Beatles were good, weren't they?"

I rescind.
Have you read Q, Fuzzy?
Give it ago. i think you'll like it.

...who, every time we get drunk, looks at me and says "Are The Beatles overrated?" Never fails.

is culture is like black hole you have the density in the middle, the greats be they The Beatles Bob Dylan,Shakespeare,Laurel And Hardy,The Wire,Rembrandt,Mozart,Citizen Kane,Psycho we can all argue the toss about who the greatest are and we all have our opinions,but these greats exert an immense cultural pull if you like and they frame the reference points of our cultural universe.

Sorry for the length of the post but I couldn't put it any other way,sorry to bring Monbiot into it but I had to to make an important point.

I guess the issue I am exploring and eager to discuss is cultural weight,the weight of reviews,the weight of art theory,the intellectualisation of art and the dismissal of pure pleasure,the relationship between art and commerce,money and power and the place of the individual consumer and links into wider society such as the marginalisation of women,ethnic minorities and the working class,a lot I know but I think it is important and worth discussing.

is the "post situalationist modern ironic theory of art"? Please explain.

Just lighten up and listen to some surf music. You’re giving us a headache.

and eager to discuss is cultural weight,the weight of reviews,the weight of art theory,the intellectualisation of art and the dismissal of pure pleasure,the relationship between art and commerce,money and power and the place of the individual consumer and links into wider society such as the marginalisation of women,ethnic minorities and the working class,a lot I know but I think it is important and worth discussing."

Sorry but don't you think you should have added one of those smileys after that? ;-)

.........

I love simple pleasures, we can't all agree on one thing Chris G that is exactly the point

is that something distant sailing far overhead?

Stop digging, man. Weight of opinion does not greater the "art" or "culture" make, even if the weight is that of so called and self proclaimed experts.

I like music, me...It's ace. Although some of it isn't.

Is it actually possible to get an absolute consensus on any cultural matter?

Here's an attempt:

"ARETHA FRANKLIN IS A GOOD SINGER"

and another:

"THE BEATLES WROTE SOME GOOD SONGS"

These (and a few other) opinions aside, there is little chance in getting a consensus on any cultural opinion. That's a good thing though, isn't it?

It is called the canon be it the literary canon,musical canon,Film Canon

But again the canon is constantly being fought over,there was an uproar the other day because the French came up with a list of the 100 best films of all time and there were hardly any British films on it I don't think any film by David Lean was on it.

We could go on to discuss the Anglo/American dominance of the popular musical canon for example.

But what I think is important are the cultural choices we make as individuals the phrase you are what you eat, I think can apply to culture too, when you consume a cultural product, be it going to a gig,seeing a film, going to an art gallery, going to the theatre,reading a book you are making a choice often within certain perametres I don't know many working class people who for example woiuld go to the opera, the cost would preclude them for a start and then there is the issue of feeling culturally comfortable within different class context. So the art we consume defines us as individuals i believe in some way we become the art we consume almost like a mirror into our very being and worth as social citizens.
When you go into a shop and buy the latest cd by Elbow for example you are not buying a cd by El Divo for example I have never heard El Divo i don't want to hear El Divo before I die even on the radio but millions of people do, does that make them less important as people,in some eyes it does, but they are still people just as we all are.

Of course it's good to have your own opinions and make your own cultural choices, but we are all influenced by what is perceived wisdom and to a certain extent what is considered cool or to fit in with a social group,so as not to appear foolish,that applies across the board.

My favourite canon is the one in what the actress really said to the bishop..........

"With balls like that, you should be a canon!"
Boom and again boom!

Would go to see Phil The Power Taylor take on Barnie on the oche and feel comfortable in their surroundings ?

Of course I am playing loosely with class stereotypes,since Martin Amis had a darts player called Keith Talent in London Fields

To the editors of Word,Uncut and Mojo why has Andy Partridge never been on the cover of any of your magazines ? The greatest living songwriter arguably,by the way for Partridge read your Own favourite who has been criminally ignored by the mainstream UK music press be it Mark E Smith,Richard Thompson,Dizee Rascal, Kate Bush,Robert Forster.

Why recycle the same faces month in month out ? Are your commercial imperatives,outweighing your artistic judgement ?

Is this around how many fuzzys might feel comfortable in the smug den of middle class superiority called Word (sic)? If so, please check out Handsomes ongoing blog. We have all sorts/classes of opinionated pedants here, thank you.

We define those ourselves and we all can be shaken out of them from time to time me included

Ah, I get it now - you are simply typing (apparently almost randomly at times) in order to provoke a reaction.

The most frequently used adjective across all of your postings appears, on first glance, to be the word "crap". I think you should ponder on that a while, then have a bit of a lie down, or go for a nice walk in the fresh air.

Provoke yes,stimulate yes,challenge conceived thought yes, all done I hope in a spirit of understanding, respect and not a little humour I have read all the posts on this thread but it is my aim to try and change things a bit, because I think the cultural landscape has gone stale because the taste makers i.e. those who determine what you and I read,are it seems working within certain perimeters and they do not really break out of a safe formula,they are quite happy to stick to their own niche or defined constituency.I read The Word because it conforms least to stereotype than for example Uncut see the dominance of perceived cool/Americana or Mojo the blind acceptance of The Canon/retro obviously there is also much to enjoy in Uncut and Mojo,but they don't go anywhere near as hard or as fast as The Word and I have stopped reading them,although I do read them in the library. As for the frequent mention of crap it's about time someone cut through it.

amphetamine do you ingest before sitting down to type?

is waterboarding by lexicology...

Thanks.

Have some of you been drinking???

May I just say that we are simple folk. We wish no harm to others and all we seek is a haven in which to debate such trivial matters such as beards and The Wire (or both).

This site is not 'cliquey' nor does it have a clique. I am far from the official spokesperson but I believe I speak for everyone when I say we wholeheartedly welcome newcomers and the view and opinions they bring.

However, you seem to be taking things a bit too seriously and I think you're starting to become slightly antagonistic and what's more, it appears you're starting to do it for kicks. Please don't, it's not fun, big or clever and your previous posts suggest you have many interesting things to say which I'd be more than willing to hear.

This is far from a personal attack and I wish you all the best in your hunt for employment.

Best Regards and all that

A discussion on the cultural worth of Jimmy Carr.

As opposed to Damien Hirst and then we can discuss theories of social balm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughter

then make the link between cultural worth ,social worth. financial worth,artistic worth.

And This article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/3665529/For-the-love-of-art-and-m...

It doesn't add up does it ?

Disgust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgust

We Could go on to then discuss the power of laughter verses the power of disgust, the joy of music and the power of poetry.

please.

Being rude to someone on line is so easy. Similar in a way to how people lose their manners when cocooned in their car.
Fuzzyface has a lot to say. If you don't like it. don't read the thread or don't respond. I sense a pack mentality of bullying going on and i think it's wrong.

The lack of consensus is undoubtedly a good thing. There is no cultural determinism that has ending up at a settled view. At least I hope not. Otherwise the scene is dead.

Just look at the reader reviews of any reasonably prominent cultural artefact on Amazon, and then sort them by rating. If you have range between 1 and 5 stars, and there will almost certainly be more fives than ones, then make a beeline for the one star reviews. They will probably tell you more than the rave reviews, and will be more helpful in making you decide whether to invest. Its detractors might not like it because it badly written, impenetrable, inaccurate, anti-God, anti-American, or the objector is just barking mad : however you will get a better idea of what it is and what might be at stake.

Even with The Canon, you don't have to like everything, and probably shouldn't. Me, can't abide Queen, The Eagles, Floyd and concur with Alan Partridge that the greatest Beach Boys album is not Pet Sounds but The Beach Boys Greatest Hits (assuming a perfect selection exists, includes Warmth Of The Sun and In My Room and not Lady Linda and Kokomo, but that's another argument).

Finally. just look at the endless Top 10 Of The Year lists in every publication. Aren't the same names in every list (this year it seems to be Elbow, MGMT, Bon Iver, Glasvegas, Portishead) and isn't your jaded eye drawn to the unexpected choice ? Or is that just me ?

Am with you on Il Divo though.

I can take it though, I understand other peoples frustration,irritation even because what I am talking about is such a huge issue.I haven't been here much today because I have been working on my blog I am working on an essay called The Power Of Critical Analysis On The Popular Mind.The title gives you some idea of what might be involved when I have finished I will post it on my blog I will then post the link and it is up to you whether you want to read it and then whether you agree with it. Call me big headed but I think it could blow peoples minds,that is my intention anyway,but it is such a complex and in depth subject and there are many sides to it as many sides in fact as there are people and opinions.

see ya later

Fuzz

Work In Progress.

http://musicsportandtherestoftheworld.blogspot.com/

How about a self-imposed limit, twitter-like, of say 140 characters per post. It would stop amateur journalists ranting and those wretched

Arguments for the predominance of beauty in popular music it's an interesting subject to think about what is beautiful/ugly art and how much of each do we want ?

Think of a great song,yourself, say The Certainty Of Chance by The Divine Comedy then think of which great work of art it might relate to, so I came up with The Persistence Of Memory by Salvador Dali so I checked that out, I am now thinking how both relate to Chaos theory.

Go on your own journey it is endlessly stimulating

best wishes fuzz

That it is best for each individual to come to their own conclusion about what is or is not great art. the only cultural consensus that can be reached is in your own head.

All this endless point and counter point is pointless, there is no right or wrong answer.

In my head Pharoah's Dance Miles Davis jackson Pollock and abstract expressionism

The Love You Take Is Equal To The Love You Make

... I have a headache after reading all this, think a lie down and a ponder on what Jeremy Kyle would make of all this is in order...

Just an eternal walk through vales of tears.

Or something.

But in the spirit of gentle curiosity of sorts and then received quite a lot of flak some justified, mainly not though we know what curiosity did to the cat don't we ? by the way what did happen to Ben Volpiere with the cap ?

A bit of light relief and illumination needed