Entertainment For Lively Minds
The Choir on BBC2
Anyone watch this last night?
As a social experiment I think it's fascinating.
In short a trained choir-master has gone into a "deprived area" to see if he can set up a community choir.
Obviously you don't know how much behind the scenes cajoling is going on to "reveal" the stories behind the everyday people but their everyday stories are moving nonetheless. I certainly felt a lump in my throat when the old guy was talking about using the choir to help him meet people after the recent death of his wife.
I normally avoid programmes like this for their contrivance but there is something refreshingly pure about the message of this one: that music can bring people together and that simple concepts such as a place to meet and sing in harmony are worth keeping alive and actively implementing.
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Yes I did
I really like this series - watched the first two as well. The main man, Gareth, is so natural and enthusiastic about what he is trying to do, he is very charming and doesn't patronise anyone. It's an example of why putting genuine talent, with relevance, in to front a show, rather than shoehorn a TV sleb to do it, works so much better.
I saw a trailor of a reality show involving wildlife in Africa or something, and the front man was some TV sleb who previously fronted a building programme. Made me groan...
Why not focus on a real choir?
Places like the Llynfi Valley in South Wales still have many marvellous choirs that are focal points for extremely deprived areas. I haven't seen the BBC2 programme but you could study the real thing instead of having to make one up.
Not the point of the show
It's about assembling a new choir, rather than being a fly on the wall doc on an existing one.
Fair enough, like I say I didn't see it.
I was reacting to the original post which said the message of the programme was "that music can bring people together and that simple concepts such as a place to meet and sing in harmony are worth keeping alive and actively implementing."
If you watched
the show you'd understand the context of that comment. The location of this choir is a place in outer North London called South Oxhey that has never really been allocated resources for community life. It sprang up largely out of necessity after the war when cheap new housing was required for families who lost everything in the blitz. It doesn't have the benefit of an 'historical' community such as the place you mention in Wales.
There are undoubtedly many places with thriving choirs but it's preaching to the converted in that context. There are places like South Oxhey which have either lost or never had the benefit of a choir.
As a message I think it's worth delivering to people in these disadvantaged areas. There's more to life than the pub which, on the basis of the show last night, seemed to be the only place to go in the area.
I will try and see it to get a better idea.
It is great that people have the opportunity to join a choir and all power to them, but even without seeing it you have to conclude that this programme must be contrived. Even if it is well meaning, how can it not be? I can imagine it is great telly though.
More widely, the whole thing depends on the engagement of this choir master and the resources of the BBC. Realistically the choir is very unlikely to survive the withdrawal of either, unless it is part of something more institutional (most likely to be a church).
In terms of its wider effects, unless this choir master is going to make this his full time work and clone himself multiple times and unless somebody puts in some financing I can't see too many choirs spontaneously forming across the UK. It is about as likely as Jamie Oliver ending obesity.
I see your point
but I think it's a very narrow basis on which to assess the merits of this. I don't mean to be critical but it's a cynical line of argument that seems easy to adopt: the idea that unless the process can be economically quantified and measured it lacks merit. I used to spend much of my life thinking this way as well and then I realised I was just making myself grumpy by thinking that way.
Interestingly the spur for going to South Oxhey came from the local vicar so in that regard it was an 'institutional' catalyst. How it all pans out remains to be seen but I noted after going online this lunchtime that South Oxhey has a festival this year and I think this programme was made last year.
The BBC also plugged their website with info on choirs around the country and advice on starting a choir.
Come Dancing seems to have enthused people to take up ballroom dancing so perhaps this will have a similar effect.
Criticism is fine mate, I may be wrong - happens every day
I am also on thin ice not having seen it!
As a default I would be cynical about reality TV (which is what this seems to be).
I am not cynical about the idea of TV having an impact though, this format just didn't leap out as the best way to do it if the objective is to promote participation (being on BBC2 probably won't help much either).
If the idea is that you can go out and form a choir with your mates instead of going down the pub well ... it isn't true. Unless somebody knows what they are doing (like your choir master chappie) it is going to be a fiasco. You could form a punk band, that might be doable, but a choir?
Something like "Last Choir Standing" involved living, viable choirs in a competition format that got massive audiences. Making it easier to join existing choirs just seems more likely to work than growing new ones. The choirs were from all over the country (there are also regional programmes using the same competition format in places like Wales and they get big audiences too).
You'd have loved Matty the boxer in last night's episode...
Rabidly devoted to his home turf to the point of near-total incomprehension at the idea anyone would consider improving the place in any way, he switched to Cassandra-in-Nike-sweats mode on hearing Gareth's choral plans for the town, confidently predicting uptake would be minimal.
To his credit, Matty did give the choir a try, the trade-off being that Gareth join him in the ring for a bout or two (which, being someone quite clearly in possession of a pair made of top-quality titanium, Gareth did - that scene alone ought to silence any Murdoch-inspired quibbles over the licence fee), but then Matty vanished, rather wonderfully dismissing the choir as unrepresentative of the entire town as none of his mates had signed up.
That said, he did change his tune* by the end of the episode after watching the choir's first performance in the town shopping precinct, happily singing their praises*. So much for the voice of dissent, then...
Incidentally, my favourite moment last night was the, er, subtle allusion to the area's musical pedigree when Gareth and a bloke in a Watford strip duetted on "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" at the local karaoke night. Would Mr Dwight have some sort of local connection by any chance?
(*sorry)
I think that interpretation is a little unfair
You've got to remember that this is the third series and so word would have quickly got around about the fact there was a telly programme going on.
I think what Matty was getting at was that quite a lot of the people who turned up on the night were from out of town and not part of the actual South Oxhey estate. Of course the BBC are not going to acknowledge this because it makes their programme look a bit less authentic.
Matty
came across as a top geezer, didn't you think?
The one last year,
when Gareth had the unenviable task of bludgeoning a bunch of sullen teenagers into a functioning choir, was utterly ace; compulsive viewing and quite moving at times. The previous series to that was also excellent non-lowest common denominator TV.
It's reality TV, Jed, but not as Heat magazine knows it.
I know it's all edited to blazes, supported by armies of 'researchers' and the like, and shows us 2% of what happened if we're lucky, but after all, there was enough left to tell an uplifting story, and the man stuck it out. As an ex-teacher, I have only admiration for his enthusiasm and grit.
More power etc.
(Edit) Cross threading a little, isn't this just the sort of thing the Beeb can do well with licence payer's money that Roopie's Baby would never deem viable, as it wouldn't show a profit?
I suppose
it's a trade-off between good telly - Will anyone turn up? Will anyone leave? Will there be bun-fights? - and a good premise. I think they get the balance right with this concept.
Wales has a long tradition of choirs and has its Eisteddfods and so on. Or to use Blackadder it has a natural inclination to form "huge gangs of tough sinewy men who roam the valleys terrorising people with their close-harmony singing."
Interestingly the choir seemed to attract a lot of age ranges, from kids to grannies so part of the success must be seen from the perspective of community involvement. In other words not your pub crowd and the emphasis being that many, many people need something different to a pub to get them to venture outside in an area where there is no community centre. They gave their first performance in a precinct because there are no facilities big enough to house the choir and an audience.
I agree with kb's point
about putting someone who really knows what they are doing at the front of the show. Gareth leads the show himself without the dubious benefit of a sleb support act. this is part of the fun, in fact, as the use of voice-over, talking to camera etc is minimal - we just get film of Gareth doing his thing. it is also worth mentioning that the participants in the programme from the community don't appear to be taking part just to get on the telly, which differentiates it from most other reality shows.
Edited it may be, but it feels more 'real' doing it this way, more seat -of-the-pants.
The Choir - From a local residents perspective..
In response to some of the earlier comments regarding The Choir and South Oxhey... First of all I do think that Gareth Malone is wonderful and is aiming to do a lot of good, the program makers however have an entirely different agenda.
I'm a 30 something qualified professional working in the city and have lived in the area for most of my life, my in laws moved to the area in 1949. The BBC's portrayal of the area is hugely distorted - not surprising when you consider that most of the people they interviewed were drinking in pubs and clubs (in the daytime). We do not carry the stigma of the late 1940's around with us, we'd be a pretty sad bunch if we did, and I'm sure that the events of that period would be news to most of the current 12000 residents.
I do not agree with the assertion that we're a downtrodden and deprived area but rather think that in most places there will always be people who moan about what they haven't got instead of getting off of their backsides and doing something about it.
To cover a few points:
The disused golfcourse was actually the stage for the British Championship (not to be confused with the british open!), back in the day, and provides acres and acres of green playing fields available to all.
There are two local football clubs one of which is nearly 40 years old and each of these comprise several teams in various age groups. The boxing club itself has been going for 25 years providing discipline, training, and friendship for many. There are also scouts, brownies and air cadets for youngsters.
The local woodland has many nature trails and is an area of special scientific interest due to the inhabitants - specifically Bats.
We have a swimming pool, and seperately the newly built council run "Centre" which houses a well equipped gym, creche, dance studio & school, recording studio, function rooms etc.
As well as the schools there are many churches on the estate which offer opportunities for people to meet up and get invoived in local events.
The local shops that were shown are a bit grim but that seems to be the fate of many of these precincts all over the country these days as larger supermarkets are built on the edge of town - and we have several to choose from locally as we border so many places, and the program makers didn't show the Tesco local or the Somerfield which is walking distance (5 mins) for those that don't have a car.
As to availability of "Culture" we are, in my opinion, a commuter town so have good links into the city of London and Watford Pump House Theatre is just 2 miles away - so are we utterly despairing - I don't think so. Some people just want to have everything given to them on a plate.
My rant is finished & I fear I may have gone a little off track. To finish off, I've known Matty all my life and he is a top geezer but the program makers (and Gareth) seemed to suggest that he encapsulated South Oxhey or that he was the epicentre of the place - in a good way admittedly - but of course that's ridiculous, how could an individual be representative of 12,000!
One more thing - to the person who suggested that those who formed the choir were "out of towners" who wanted to get on telly - don't be silly, a leaflet drop to 12000 people provided a turnout of 200 (1.6%) Matt didn't know them all because 12000 is a lot of people.
As regards timings the choir started filming last year and finished with the festival earlier this year when they put on a marvellous performance. As a local my question has always been, as someone else commented what happens once the cameras are gone? I personally haven't heard a word about any other performances since the festival but certainly hope that they're all still going strong.
Really pleased to hear that
my assessment of Matty, made via the programme, agrees so well with your own.
Matty
He's actually been a friend of mine for 30+ years and we've got really similar backgrounds but theres no way he represents me - or I him! Glad you liked him though cos he's lovely but having to wear dark glasses this week. Spoke to him today & he said the fight etc was all set up by the producers not him & Gareth!
BBC The Choir - A local's viewpoint!
In response to some of the earlier comments regarding The Choir and South Oxhey... First of all I do think that Gareth Malone is wonderful and is aiming to do a lot of good, the program makers however have an entirely different agenda.
I'm a 30 something qualified professional working in the city; I'm also a parent and have lived in the area for most of my life. My in laws moved to the area in 1949. The BBC's portrayal of the area is hugely distorted - not surprising when you consider that most of the people they interviewed were drinking in pubs and clubs (in the daytime). We do not carry the stigma of the late 1940's around with us, we'd be a pretty sad bunch if we did, and I'm sure that the events of that period would be news to most of the current 12000 residents.
I do not agree with the assertion that we're a downtrodden and deprived area but rather think that in most places there will always be people who moan about what they haven't got instead of getting off of their backsides and doing something about it.
To cover a few points:
The disused golf course was actually the stage for the British Championship (not to be confused with the British open!), back in the day, and provides acres and acres of green playing fields available to all. I'm informed that the land was all originally part of the Blackwell Estate (as in Cross & Blackwell) before it was purchased by a wealthy golfer and turned into a course, later it was subject to a compulsory purchase order and has now been council owned for decades. The local social centre "The Centre" is actually built on the former site of the Blackwell mansion house and to the side of it the centuries old family chapel still stands a preserved but unused part of All Saints Church (where Rev Pam hails from).
There are two local football clubs one of which is nearly 40 years old and each of these comprises several teams in various age groups. The boxing club itself has been going for 25 years providing discipline, training, and friendship for many. There are also scouts, brownies and air cadets for youngsters.
The extensive local woodland has many nature trails and is an area of special scientific interest due to the inhabitants - specifically Bats.
We have a swimming pool, and separately the newly built council run "Centre" which houses a well equipped gym, crèche, dance studio & school, recording studio, function rooms etc.
As well as the schools there are many churches on the estate which offer opportunities for people to meet up and get involved in local events.
The local shops that were shown are a bit grim but that seems to be the fate of many of these precincts all over the country these days as larger supermarkets are built on the edge of town - and we have several to choose from locally as we border so many places, and the program makers didn't show the Tesco local or the Somerfield which is walking distance (5 mins) for those that don't have a car.
As to availability of "Culture" we are, in my opinion, a commuter town so have good links into the city of London and Watford Pump House Theatre is a mere 2 miles away, Watersmeet is just a little farther - so are we utterly devoid of culture & despairing - I don't think so, it's within reach for those who want it . Some people just want to have everything given to them on a plate.
My rant is finished & I fear I may have gone a little off track. To finish off, I've known Matty all my life and he is a top geezer but the program makers (and Gareth) seemed to suggest that he encapsulated South Oxhey or that he was the epicentre of the place - in a good way admittedly - but of course that's ridiculous, how could an individual be representative of 12,000!
One more thing - to the person who suggested that those who formed the choir were "out of towners" who wanted to get on telly - don't be silly, a leaflet drop to 12000 people provided a turnout of 200 (1.6%), is that so unbelievable? Matt didn't know them all because 12000 is a lot of people.
As regards timings the choir started filming last year and finished with the festival earlier this year when they put on a marvellous performance. As a local my question has always been, as someone else commented, what happens once the cameras are gone? I personally haven't heard a word about any other performances since the festival but certainly hope that the choir is still going strong.
Exaggerated
Having worked as a teacher in South Oxhey for over 7 years, I feel I know the estate to a fair degree. I am really enjoying the programme and think that community choirs are fantastic ideas. However, I also think that some of the statements made are not accurate. In last night's show, Gareth was talking about the children and how they had never come together to sing before and didn't have choirs. Well 7 years ago, I was involved with organising such an event!!!It was amazing and I was incredibly proud of the children of South Oxhey. Athough I should probably mention that when we introduced the idea of a choir to my school, the children listened intently about how to sign up for 15 minutes and then one child asked "what is a choir?" What spoke volumes was that none of the 200 other children could tell them!!!The point I am trying to make, is that having choirs is not a new concept in South Oxhey but I think the key issue is who will continue it?
I'd agree with your last question.
Finding a charismatic mentor to replace him must be difficult for any community or school where he's done his thing.
I'd also point out that 7 years is a bloody long time for a primary school - it's a complete rotation of the pupils in the school, so his statement was true within the living memory of the children in front of him.