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The Biggest Band In The World 1975

Five-Centres's picture

I heard Dawn by Flintlock on the radio the other day. Remember them?

If you crash landed in Britain sometime between 1975 and 1978 and took a look at music magazines or music TV, you'd think Flintlock were the biggest band in the world. They were on everything, from Look-in to Pauline's Quirkes, from the Tomorrow People to Here and Now, they were the very definition of ubiquitous.

But they had this one very minor Top 40 hit, despite releasing loads of singles.

Was it because they simply weren't very good? With exposure like that these days they'd be cluttering up the charts, but why not back then?

A friend said to me that because they were on mainly ITV shows, Radio 1 wouldn't play them. Perhaps that's true.

Did anyone here actually buy any of their records?

2

Remember Arrows?

They had a string of low-charting hit singles in the mid 1970's (including "I Love Rock n Roll"), and then went on to have two 13 week TV series after the point where most groups would be dropped by their record companies.

Look-In (who were Sinn Fein to ITV's IRA) stubbornly tried to forcefeed teenage girls the notion that they were the best thing since er...Flintlock throughout this period, but the Julie Burchill generation showed their taste by having none of it.

Six months airtime in little over a year? Steven Poliakoff, Michael Palin, David Attenborough, Paul Abbott or The Chuckle Brothers would kill for that kind of exposure these days.

What's more, at a time when the ITV networks (like the BBC) were still occasionally wiping or accidentally leaving tv gold dust in skips, someone made the decision to retain this series for posterity.

1
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 4:30pm

Look In

The comment above is one of the funniest things I've read for a long time. Thanks!

2
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:45pm

Arrows - the band Argent could have been*



(complete with Granada ident)

*if they hadn't had Rod Argent and Russ Ballard

0
stimpy | 13 January 2010 - 5:02pm

Rings a bell

Were they originally from a TV show on ITV? I remember there being a comic strip featuring them in Look In magazine. I also dimly recall one of the Tomorrow People (ITV's attempt at Dr Who) being in Flintlock.

They were, seemingly, everywhere for a period of time. I do not recall ever hearing a single song by them.

The mid-70s were a funny time though. I remember Crackerjack over on BBC having the show's stars singing a medley of popular hits every week, usually with a slight oompah/Salvation army brass band feel to them. It was almost as if the authorities believed that they could wean kids off dangerous rock and roll and get them back on the straight and narrow. There were quite a lot of records with a brass band feel around that time too, usually on lesser labels like Bell.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:17pm

If paradise is half as nice

Whilst we're on the subject of both overhyped underachievers and Crackerjack, check out this piece of history showing Rosetta Stone on Crackerjack in 197?. Be nice, though; this clip was posted by a relative.

0
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 4:25pm

If paradise is half as nice

Whilst we're on the subject of both overhyped underachievers and Crackerjack, check out this piece of history showing Rosetta Stone on Crackerjack in 197?. Be nice, though; this clip was posted by a relative.


0
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 4:26pm

Landfill Bubblegum

There must have been hundreds of these bands. My guess is that many of them were semi-finalists on New Faces or Opportunity Knocks.

Surprisingly free of the oompah feel that I remember the show having.

...those were the days. This is probably from the post-Sex Pistols era.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:34pm

What was that woman called

She talked her way through songs and more or less made up the words. I remember her doing Matchstalk Men & Matchstalk Cats & Dogs and she was all over the place. I was only 11.

0
Five-Centres | 13 January 2010 - 4:36pm

Jan Hunt

Along with Don MacLean (catchphrase: M'Clean, aren't I?), Peter Glaze, and Ed Stewart, even as an 8 year old, I knew I was being patronized.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:41pm

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0
webmaster | 26 July 2010 - 7:53am

Did Crackerjack not change some of the lyrics ?

I can still remember...

Ashes to ashes
Funk to funky
Major Tom's a cheeky monkey

0
Lemon Kitten | 13 January 2010 - 5:00pm

You can see why they did that

but you'd be hard pressed to find something remotely bordering on offensive in Matchstalk Men.

I always imagined they listened to the record, hastily scribbled down the words as they heard them and therefore got them wrong. This was pre-Smash Hits of course and Disco 45 wouldn't have printed those type of lyrics.

0
Five-Centres | 13 January 2010 - 5:02pm

Disrespect

It was a studied disrespect for the kid's music. They wanted to put us back on the straight and narrow. That's why they changed words to everything, because they thought it didn't matter.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 5:10pm

I don't know

it's clear evidence perhaps that Lowry's unreasonably thin representations promoted body fascism and encouraged eating disorders.

0
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 5:57pm

Flintlock introduced by Arrows


Never heard this in my life until now. The guitar guy is almost as good as the skinny bloke out of Kasabian.

1
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:23pm

One can't help wondering...

... what was ITV's "incentive" for relentlessly pushing Flintlock & Arrows at an unappreciative public? Not suggesting any dodgy kickbacks, but presumably ITV had the bands on ironclad retainers for when they became "bigger than the Beatles", but they were clearly sold two pups.

For the record, Arrows had a few decent tracks, albeit lighter-than-light powerpop, but even the 11 year-old Mickey thought Flintlock beyond the pale.

0
Metal Mickey | 13 January 2010 - 4:37pm

ITV had many attempts at this

There was Rock Follies too. I think the regional divisions of ITV were tied in to some of the old rock and roll entrepreneurs like Larry Parnes.

Of course, it's all changed now!

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:44pm

Don't knock Rock Follies

How else would we have heard of Julie Covington?


On the down side, it also gave us Rula Lenska "singing".

0
Thomas the Rhymer | 13 January 2010 - 6:31pm

Covington

She must have been a good actress. She always seems on the verge of tears to the extent that I find her hard to look at without experiencing some sort of instinctive empathy reaction. Not really a fan of her work but I seem to connect with her at a level I don't understand.

0
Mavis Diles | 14 January 2010 - 6:58pm

In 1976...

...I went up to senior school, and it happened to be the same school as Flintlock's drummer, the same kid who was in Tomorrow People. I think he'd have been in the 5th year.

The old memory might be playing tricks, but I definitely remember being marched into the headmaster's office for some long forgotten offense, and on the wall there was a row of silver / gold discs, all Flintlock related.

Punk was pretty big at the time and I recall him getting more than his fair share of pastings. Which was a shame.

Stevie Shears of Ultravox had been there a few years earlier. Rock, roll, etc.

1
leicester_bangs | 13 January 2010 - 5:36pm

Liverpool Express

Were they in this vein? And what about Child or Buster? So many casualties.

0
Five-Centres | 13 January 2010 - 4:46pm

A whole genre forgotten

There should be a statue or something.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 4:54pm

If there's a train called The Liverpool Express

maybe they could rename it "The Liverpool Express Liverpool Express" in their honour.

1
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 5:53pm

Our Kid

"You just might see me cry"

0
Sour Crout | 13 January 2010 - 6:23pm

Opportunity Knocks winners could start their own thread...

Our Kid, Neil Reid, Millican & Nesbitt, Lena Zavaroni and the enormously successful Peters & Lee are the first ones that spring to mind... were Lieutenant Pigeon from OK, too? Winning OK a few weeks in a row was a guaranteed ticket to The Big Time in its day.

New Faces was the next big telent show - plenty of comedians came from that, but the only musical act I can remember is Showaddywaddy, though I'm sure the Massive will put me right...

0
Metal Mickey | 14 January 2010 - 8:10am

I admit I cheated, but according to ver 'Pedia...

Paul Daniels
Mary Hopkin
Bonnie Langford
Les Dawson,
Royston Vasey (later to find fame as Roy 'Chubby' Brown),
Little and Large,
Bobby Crush,
Berni Flint,
Millican & Nesbitt,
Neil Reid,
Peters and Lee,
Lena Zavaroni,
Frank Carson,
Max Boyce,
Pam Ayres,
Our Kid,
Sweet Sensation,
Tony Monopoly

Didn't Macca sign Mary Hopkin to Apple after watching her on Op Knocks?

1
stimpy | 14 January 2010 - 12:03pm

Tipped off by Twiggy

Macca was up at his dad's house for the weekend with Twiggy (they were mates, probably still are) and she wanted to watch her in the final on telly. He was impressed and phoned her up the next day.

0
Richard Lowe | 14 January 2010 - 12:13pm

and let's not forget

Sheer Elegance and Our Kid

0
Five-Centres | 14 January 2010 - 12:19pm

that's an a-z of light entertainment right there!

Sensational!

0
Mavis Diles | 14 January 2010 - 1:10pm

Look how that list

was the bedrock of LE for many years to come, just like the talents shows of today are doing.

0
Five-Centres | 14 January 2010 - 2:39pm

Tell me this is more than just nostalgia...

...but Roy Vasey, Lena Zavaroni, Frank Carson, Max Boyce, Pam Ayres, Bonnie Langford, Mary Hopkin and even Paul Daniel look like giants compared to the empty vessels pumped out by the Cowell machine today.

I always had a degree of respect and a heap of sympathy for Lena Zavaroni, and if she was to appear today she would out-Boyle Boyle without even breaking into a sweat.

Look at this clip of Lena, from the last surviving episode of "Junior Showtime" (which looks from the bottom as though it was magnetised from being archived next to Rula Lenska's still-hot curling tongs). Sickly, toe-curlish and even unsettling in light of our child-friendlier vantage point, but you can't deny the girl's chutzpah.


0
Pax Romana | 14 January 2010 - 3:47pm

That is quite a list of future LE stalwarts...

... Peters & Lee had 4 top 10 albums in 3 years (in the days when albums used to SELL) and this also reminded me I met Bobby Crush briefly about 10 years ago, and he was still doing 300 gigs a year and absolutely coining it in...

And there's allegedly a movie biography of Lena Zavaroni coming this year, "Going Nowhere."

Even if it had only discovered Les Dawson, OK would have been worth it.

0
Metal Mickey | 14 January 2010 - 4:12pm

Personality/Andrew O'Hagen

A great novel about a Scottish-Italian girl discovered on a TV talent show in the 70s who hits the big time and spirals into despair. It's 'loosely' based on Lean Zavaroni.

I work with a guy who's father - record producer Tommy Scott - discovered her. She even lived in their house.

Yes, she was a belter. Again she had few hits but was always on the telly.

0
Five-Centres | 14 January 2010 - 4:24pm

Lena Zavaroni

Signed to Stax and duetted with Sinatra - not too shabby for a 12 year-old

0
stimpy | 14 January 2010 - 4:28pm

I suddenly realised...

... that we're having a serious discussion about Lena Zavaroni, and once again my head spins at the diversity of stuff we talk about here.

It's all good.

2
Metal Mickey | 14 January 2010 - 4:52pm

Not sure Dev Hell would want to publicise this as

a selling point for the magazine/blog though! Might put more readers off than it would attract.

Having said that, I can't think of another place on the Interweb where this discussion wouldn't have degenerated into supposed irony along the lines of "Oo yes wasn't Lena Zavaroni the greatest female vocalist since Etta James - snigger snigger"*

*Apologies if this sounds like what D Baker would class as self-regarding nonsense.

0
stimpy | 14 January 2010 - 5:01pm

I have sometimes idly wondered

(as one does), what Lena Zavaroni would have been doing now if she'd managed to recover from the problems she had.

I think she'd have probably ended up in the West End somewhere. It strikes me that she had a perfect 'musical' voice and there are plenty of shows she'd have been good for.

0
illuminatus | 15 January 2010 - 9:54am

good point

I think we've uncovered a forgotten piece of relatively recent pop culture. Around 1975, the UK was a completely different place.

0
Mavis Diles | 14 January 2010 - 6:48pm

Candlewick Green!


0
Davy H | 15 January 2010 - 9:03am

Could almost be Badfinger

0
stimpy | 15 January 2010 - 10:06am

St Etienne

did a nice cover of this.

0
Five-Centres | 15 January 2010 - 10:09am

Exclusive BBC Wiltshire interview...

It's all here...it appears that they did have their own show...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/entertainment/theatre/mikeholloway.shtml

0
Richie B | 13 January 2010 - 4:51pm

In that clip above

He says he was 12 when Dawn was a hit and 16 when it ended, so he dead young in that YouTube clip above . Or he is rewriting history to make him younger now...

0
kb | 13 January 2010 - 5:27pm

I thought 12 year-olds

had arm bones that were still too bendy to make them good drummers.

0
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 5:54pm

That's interesting

At least he's still working.

0
Five-Centres | 13 January 2010 - 5:00pm

After seeing this,

you may wonder quite how:


I actually witnessed the whole production live...jeez!

0
Black Type | 13 January 2010 - 8:55pm

how so?

Come on, you can't leave that one hanging in the air. How did you come to see it? Was Paul Shane that bad every night?

I note that Holloway is the best singer on that clip. Perhaps not much of an achievement.

0
Mavis Diles | 14 January 2010 - 6:50pm

1975

It seems that in 1975 there was still a gravitational pull trying to undo everything that the 60s had put in place. There was a belief that light entertainment would come back, and that everything would somehow be alright.

I put it to you that punk was as much to do with this as it was to do with Tales from Topographic Oceans.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 5:04pm

Didn't work though, did it?

Light entertainment is back with a vengeance.

0
stimpy | 13 January 2010 - 5:19pm

And getting lighter

and lighter.

0
Chris Young | 13 January 2010 - 5:29pm

true

Can't argue. But Punk's manifesto seems to have been, at least in part, to deal with the old-school entertainment industry, and for a while it succeeded. The Young Ones TV show was I believe the final manifestation of punk, and it's targets were very much the light entertainers and the 'safety' they represented.

But yes, it's all back now.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 6:15pm

That's been the manifesto of all the 'year zero' movements

57, 66, 77 and 88.

The mass-market light-entertainment industry is bigger and more resilient than all of them. Why? Becuase it's popular and it sells.

At the time, Mrs and Mrs Suburban didn't want Elvis, The Stones, The Clash or Orbital (depending on your 'Year Zero' movement of choice); they wanted Sunday Night At The London Palladium, Opportunity Knocks, Seaside Special and Strictly Come Dancing.

And that, of course, is why each generation of kids wants its own 'Year Zero' moment.

0
stimpy | 13 January 2010 - 6:30pm

Indeed

Wish they'd get a bloomin' move on...

0
Nick_Setchfield | 13 January 2010 - 7:06pm

Hold on, it's coming

The very fact that we're discussing Flintlock means there's something in the wind

0
Five-Centres | 14 January 2010 - 10:31am

Hold On

Hold On, It's coming
Something In The Wind

I think someone might be able to weave some songs out of that!

0
JohnW | 18 January 2010 - 7:27am

yup

and unentertaininger and unentertaininger.

0
Pax Romana | 13 January 2010 - 10:50pm

The Moondogs

In what I suppose was an attempt to do an up-to-date 'new wave' version of the Bay City Rollers' TV show Shang-a-Lang, Granada did a series called Moondogs Matinee. The Moondogs were a powerpop group from Derry. The poor man's Undertones, to be brutally frank, but likeable enough. I've got one of their singles Talking In The Canteen which came with a free neckerchief, which in 1980 constituted a massive promotional hype. A flop nonetheless. Not even sure the show was shown outside 'Granadaland' (ITV was still very regional in those days). A cracking single though, if you like that sort of thing. It mentions the Nolan Sisters. Which is nice.


0
Richard Lowe | 13 January 2010 - 6:17pm

Always thought

this was a real gem...

0
KDH | 13 January 2010 - 11:00pm

Thanks

A great track, but the similarity to The Undertones in the playing is incredible. Basically it's The Undertones if they were just Damian, Mickey and Billy.

0
kb | 14 January 2010 - 9:47am

Archiving!

If you made me search for a few hours I reckon I could still lay my hands on my neckerchief! It was a good single though.

0
JohnW | 18 January 2010 - 7:26am

Flintlock

I've been slagging them off for years. Mike ,Jaime,derek and the other two. Absolutely awful.Thames Tv always tried to advertise "Hot from the Lock" after every kids tv programme but we weren't fooled.
There's another Paul on the web who hates them more than me.
http://paul-paulsboutique.blogspot.com/2008/08/hall-of-shame.html
Check out The Tomorrow people episode called "Hearts of Soggoth" where Flintlock play a band called the Fresh Hearts.

0
Sour Crout | 13 January 2010 - 6:22pm

far out

There is another subcategory of music to be explored, which is pop music as portrayed in uptight TV shows or films.

Actually that clip sounds a bit like Omar Rodriguez Lopez.

0
Mavis Diles | 13 January 2010 - 7:36pm

Beardo and I are at one on this

As we discussed on the thread here.

http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/new-oasis-singer-announced

I don't think there was anything underhand about the support of emerging acts by ITV companies - Thames' relentless plugging of Flintlock, Granada's series for Arrows and The Moondogs...I think they were just miscalculated attempts at being in at the start of what they thought might be the next big thing, and being able to claim a big chunk of the credit for their success.

I bet Granada couldn't believe their luck when The Bay City Rollers' Shang-a-Lang series came to air just as the Give a Little Love Hitmakers were hitting their oestrogen-fuelled peak.

0
johnlyons121 | 13 January 2010 - 8:20pm

I don't think

Mike H's plank-like perfomance in The Tomorrow People helped any. He was awful. Of course, being only about 7 or 8 at the time he was parachuted in, some of it sailed over my head. All I knew was he wasn't as good as wht he'd replaced.

0
illuminatus | 15 January 2010 - 9:50am

Loving this thread

Thanks to the Massive researchers for finding these YouTube clips.

Tops so far - Candlewick Green, & Arrows.

May I draw your attention to these fine fellows, M25-wide lapels and double glazing spectacles included?


0
SirTerence | 16 January 2010 - 10:07am

Behold...

...the Levon Helm of cheesepop '75!

0
Pax Romana | 16 January 2010 - 1:32pm

I remember Flintlock

They were pushed at us pop kids by Thames TV and we didn't believe a word of it. A song by them was often introduced as "their latest hit" - and any hysteria was generated inside a TV studio. The lead singer looked a little like a toothy, emaciated Richard Jobson. Not a looker by any means.

Flintlock seemed to be the vaguely musical kids who were at the same stage school that Pauline Quirke, Dexter Fletcher, Susan Tully and Gillian Taylforth all went to. They had so many vehicles on ITV for these kids that it was almost impossible for them not to end up as household names. However, in a feat that still baffles popologists, Flintlock turned the trick of side-stepping fame.

0
Austin | 18 January 2010 - 3:16am

Here's Derek!

For your viewing pleasure, here are some recent-ish clips of Flintlock's lead singer and saxophonist, Derek Pascoe. He teaches sax at Adelaide's Conservatorium of Music.

The first one is interesting. He spends most of his time moving things. Certainly, a step up from the cheesy teen pop of the mid 70s.


This one will have you whistling along:


Maybe this showcases his talents a little better:


0
Travis Bickle | 19 January 2010 - 7:40am

Hats off to Derek!

No working mens clubs, cruise liners or pantomimes for him. While the clips do explain - a bit - why maybe his heart wasn't in the 'lock, at least he is doing something interesting.

0
Austin | 19 January 2010 - 8:28am
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