Entertainment For Lively Minds
The artist formerly known as Harry Webb....
Just been listening (whilst having me dinner) to Cilla trill through Cliff Richard's top 20 hits as voted for by Radio 2 listeners.
It occurred to me: Cliff has been continuously famous - as in unable to walk down the main street of any city in the UK without being slightly mobbed - since he was a boy of 18. He's now an old man of 70 years of age.
Outside the Royal Family, has anyone else in British history been so prominent in the public eye for so long?
Bobby Charlton springs to mind as an almost exact contemporary, but, with respect to the moany Geordie baldy, his peak celebrity years were probably 1960 - 1972. He could easily pass unmolested these days.
And not a whiff of scandal in all that time. Either Sir Clifford is a media mastermind or is genuinely as nice and sincere as he appears.
The fact he's always "been there" means I think, we take him for granted as part of the furniture. But he is truly phenomenal. I hope you all feel bad for those unkind thoughts we've all had about him over the years - it's like kicking the Blue Peter dog.
Knobs on Cliff!!!
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No unkind thoughts here..
Without Cliff - along with The Shads, The Vipers, Tommy Steele and Chris Barber - we wouldn't have much to talk about on this blog.
I suspect no-one under 50 can appreciate the impact this had in 1958. Forget 1966, 1976 or 1988, this is year zero for British pop music.
I'd love to be hearing that
for the first time, after a diet of whatever was around in 1958.
Having heard it as background for years, it's so hard to imagine how it must have felt when it represented a seismic shift in British music - shivers up and down your spine (and elsewhere, as a teenage girl, no doubt).
Maybe there's a TV or radio programme idea there - plenty of audio examples of what was the current orthodoxy so you get immersed in it, then hit you with whatever caused the musical world to tilt on its axis.
That's a podcast I'd love to hear, but as I guess the music rights would cost, maybe Messrs H & E could just sell it to Radio 2?
He was...
...a seriously good rocker.
His album The Cliff Richard Show Live at the ABC Kingston 1962 is a terrific snapshot of British pop music at that moment.
It has tracks like this:
I toally agree boys...
I think Cliff is well due a place in the warm sun of critical appreciation after a very long winter in the margins.
He was at least as critical to the development of rock in Britain as anything from Matthew Street Liverpool or Eel Pie Island.
And I speak as one who has in time dished out the usual approbrium to the man,
Time for a rethink.
Fallow periods
A lot of people have been very successful, gone (or been sent) away and been successful again. But has there ever been a period when Cliff couldn't fill venues?
Early-to-mid 70s maybe
I think Cliff could have fallen off the music radar in the early-to-mid 70s, were it not for a fairly noteworthy comeback when he released I'm Nearly Famous.
My point exactly sir!
Ahem...
Er...
Yes I suppose it is. I was just thinking about the way just because people remain well known doesn't mean they can still fill venues on their zillionth tour. And equally there are people who are guaranteed to fill Wembley but who can walk down the main street unmolested.
Not only has Cliff got universal recognition, he's also (it seems to me) always sold tickets - The double whammy!
Then again, he's nobody in America, so you can't win 'em all...
a fan here
Love his early stuff,as Stimpy said,as did Pete Frame in the fabulous "Restless generation" His impact on British rock n roll at the time was immeasurable.
According to er indoors a seriously good looking bloke in the late 50's early 60's and a fine singer.
His pop records are fabulous as well.The films are serious corn, except Serious Charge and Expresso Bongo, but good fun.Is they anyone over 40 who hasn't seen Summer Holiday more than once.
Cliff sings Lionel Bart (Covered by Imelda May)
Sorry to piss on chips but
Sorry to piss on chips but he was/is crap. The void before the beatles was truly grim and full of US copyists.
Nope....
The point is that you had to have skiffle, Tommy Steele, the Larry Parnes brigade, Cliff & The Shads and Vince Taylor to get to The Beatles and The Stones.
Those guys weren't suddenly going to appear fully formed (X-Factor like) the day after John Lennon or Brian Jones heard 'Hound Dog'.
I'd much rather be living in Britain in '58 than now, and Cliff is a much more important and vibrant artist than, for example, Joe Strummer, or any of the other post-60s pretenders.
Cliff did it at the 'business end' of rock 'n' roll, not when everybody had already been there a hundred times and knew the moves inside out.
"I'd much rather be living in Britain in 1958 than now"
I sort of think I know what you mean, ranger, but still:
Not sure that is true, the
Not sure that is true, the beatles were influenced by skiffle but not tommy steel! Their main influences actually hailed from America via the ports (chuck berry et al). The Beatles transend their early influences whereas cliff et al remained copyists to this very day. Can you honestly say that the beatles would not have existed without Tommy Steele? They would have happened anyway, it was a mass of coincidenses that brought them together but talent will always out.
Evening Woodface
A propos of not much, read Tommy Steele's autobiography Bermondsey Boy. He's not very rock and roll, and doesn't claim to be either, but he probably discovered rock and roll before a lot of his contemporaries, through visiting New York when in the merchant navy, and he was the first Englishman to experience popstardom and the first to realise it was a bag of shite. Great book, give it a go. You'll see him in a whole new light.
By some accounts he is a bit
By some accounts he is a bit of a twat, there was a story doing the rounds a bit ago about stage hands pissing in the water tank when he permormed 'singin' in the rain'.
And that
"I showed Elvis round London once" story was obviously a story he told one night when he was in his cups
Ken Colyer visited New Orleans whilst in the Merchant Navy
In fact, he claims to have joined up in the specific hope of getting a ship there.
On his return in 1949, he reconstituted the Crane River Jazzmen and, eventually, recruited a banjo player called Tony 'Lonnie' Donegan. Donegan put together a three-piece interval band which started to play a style they called skiffle. Within a year skiffle was a national craze and the Quarrymen Skiffle Group was formed 200 miles north of the Crane River. We know what happened next.
I guess you had to be there...
Growing up in the 1950's was, in many ways, crap - Victorian schooling, the tail end of rationing, an obsession with the war, the country was a uniform grey - but Cliff was a breath of fresh air. He was like nothing else we'd ever heard/seen and he was ours, not an American. For the first time we had someone who could rival Elvis and Jerry Lee.
For me, seeing Move It for the first time 50 years ago is up there with the most thrilling musical experiences I ever had. It was largely responsible for me wanting to be a musician - and I wasn't the only one.
Hooray!
I'm not alone. Come on, let's say it again- he's crap, a bit dim and with an out-of-all-proportion ego which could easily eclipse Jupiter.
Feel free to join in.....
Easily in the top five British acts of all time......
Yep, we have occasional 'isn't Cliff great!' threads on here, so I'll continue this one.....isn't Cliff great!
The above compilation is recommended, and the Not Now Music label (see also their wonderful Charles Mingus, Miles, Monk and MJQ 50s collections) has just released Cliff's first two LPs on one CD for under a fiver!!!
Indeed, the clever money in 2011, given the lapse of copyright, is on getting a wide range of 50s material, and all these releases are superb, only do yourself a favour and start with Cliff.
Cliff is pants.
Still, better than Primal Scream anyways.
thinking about the "eleganza" thread
Cliff would have been the ideal celebrity endorsement for that dramatic apparel wouldn't he?
Christ's Fat Cock!
His early rock n roll type stuff is fine (although still a watered down versiuon of Elvis, Jerry Lee and Little Richard) but anything past that just MOR mush
Christ's Fat Cock?
An up arrow for that
(rehearses phrasing so dropping it into future conversation will appear spontaneous...)
For reference
See point number 10:
http://www.bubblegun.com/features/morris.html
Cliff is Cliff
Frank is Frank, Elvis is Elvis. Any others? Not many. He was brave enough to say ok I'll sing "C'mon pretty baby let's move it and groove it" and as I may have mentioned before he did it with enough charisma, talent and God given looks that people believed it and loved it. I'll also wager that 70's Cliff was right on the button for the time as well, after that he was entitled to make his living any way he can. Millennium Prayer" and "Mistletoe and Wine" included, whether we like it or not.
In his interview with Piers Morgan he sat on the terrace of his Barbados or some such place home and said "If Martians landed on earth and asked me "What do you do" I'd play them "Devil Woman" and say that's what I do". Proper legend.
Just want to say
We don't talk anymore is a f*cking awesome record. That's all.
After the early Shads stuff,
the Alan Tarney collaborations are his best material, in my opinion. Got a soft spot for Cliff, simply because he was the first Brit to rock out convincingly as well as the various yanks we heard on the steam radio back in the day, and because Hank was the first British fretboard God. I wore out my cassette copy of the Shads greatest hits, by which time I still couldn't play Apache.
Agreed, and probably the only record to...
...contain the word 'sheep' stretched over 5 syllables.
Cliff seems to have had his pick
from the great pop writers of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Who else can claim that?
Not my cuppa, but respect nonetheless.
He never picked Morrissey
or Bowie, or Lowe, or Costello, or Partridge, or Davies. And anyway, if he's that sodding great why didn't he write something himself?
Can we please file him alongside Englebert and be done with it?
Neither Frank nor Elvis wrote either
There's a big difference between singing your own songs and interpreting the work of others. Arguably the latter is harder.
Being a good singer doesn't necessarily equate to being a good writer (and vice-versa).
Without Cliff, none of the artists you listed would have even thought of entering the business.
If he had all this great writers to choose from
why did he record 'Wired For Sound'?
Because
It's a good pop song.
Is it
me arse! :-)
Sorry
That's a persuasive argument you make, DFB. My mistake.
Doesn't this assume that Cliff cares about being 'cool'?
If he cared about that, then maybe he'd have courted these people, alienated his fanbase and sold far fewer records. That's not what the man is about, is it? We have all the people you mention above, if you want 'artistic integrity' (which I personally do - I'm a fan of all those people...)
By 'best pop writers' I was referring to the unseen, backroom, non-performing guys and girls who can write you a sure-fire million-seller. I couldn't do it, and I not certain that many people could to order for another singer. It's a craft, it's clever and I respect that.
Nowt wrong with this collection
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rock-Roll-1958-1963-Cliff-Richard/dp/B000024W5N
How many songs did Elvis write,Eddie G ?
It's all down to his influence in the late 50's. His music now sucks a big one but in 1958 'Move It' must have sounded like 'Anarchy in The UK' compared to all the other British records released at the time.see Stimpy's post above.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/17/cliff-richard-bob-stanley
'Move It' was a copy
of a sound that had been around for quite a few years in the US so, even with his greatest record, I think it's fair to say that Cliff never had a truly original moment. And come on, he was never close to being Elvis. Neither of them.
Like I say, maybe you had to have been there to understand.
Personally, I can forgive Cliff anything for opening my eyes to the sheer power and excitement of popular music with Move It.
Given how I made my living over the last 40 years, I owe him everything - and I assure you I'm not the only 50-something professional musician who would say that - especially if you bring Hank into the equation as well.
The fact he can still sell as many tickets and records as any British artist speaks volumes for his staying power but for me he'll be frozen in time in 1958 with the Hank and the boys backing him up.
As for the Elvis comparisons - the proper Elvis was a far-off exotic figure, Cliff was ours - in the same way that the Sex Pistols were our copy of the New York Dolls.
Not sure where 'Declan Elvis' comes into the equation though - couple of catchy hits 30 years ago and a recycled Buddy Holly image hardly changed the world.
'Move It' was a copy
See also Rolling Stones and the Beatles before they started writing their own songs,and millons more.Ok ,these bands had what you call "original moments" but every band that ever existed was influenced by someone or 'a sound'.
And then
they 'moved on'. Could Cliff ever have done anything truly game-changing like 'Strawberry Fields Forever'? Course not. He still thinks that his three-chord trick 'Devil Woman' changed the world. He recorded a version of 'Honky Tonk Women' without even realizing what it was about for Gawd's sake! And, when he did, he withdrew it. Very rock and roll.
Look, I appreciate that in 1958 he may have been something of a groove and that he's since clung on to be a male Vera Lynn but comparing him with the true greats who actually developed and changed rock is downright crazy in my opinion. He did very well by copying other trends and adopting the right haircut. It was the grannies wot saved him. Reckon they still do.
Indeed... and those of us who were there at the start are now
grandparents...
With the greatest of respect, I think you're a bit out on the historical timeline - the whole point of Cliff and the Shads was, for the kids, he blew away the Vera Lynns of the world. He was the breath of fresh air that made us kids realise there was something other than Vera Lynn.
To be honest, I have no real interest in what he did after 1963. He'd done his best work early - like so many other artists. It's only really post-Beatles that artists are expected to 'progress' and remain 'relevant'. Most blues and jazz artists working pre-1960 ploughed the same furrow for years - Muddy and Wolf were still doing the same shtick the day they died.
Much respect to you Stimpy,
please accept this in the spirit of healthy debate. I am still very grateful to you for that Mott ticket!!
(Raises glass in eddie's direction.)
I guess I have an ongoing bee in my bonnet about how little recognition the first wave of British rock and rollers receive for their contribution to the artistic life of this country. Even Cliff was a bit of a late-comer to the party when compared to The Vipers, Chris Barber, Lonnie and the skiffle guys.
I think their downfall was that, because no-one had done it before, there was no career path for them to follow so they naturally followed the traditional showbiz route into cabaret, panto and bad films. The corporate record industry at the time didn't know how to record rock and roll and because they thought it was a passing fad, they never bothered to find out what the independent recording studios in the US were doing. Consequently, the recorded legacy of those early guys is, by and large, pretty dire.
It was the next generation - the Beatles and the Stones who started to build their own career path - the one that's since been followed by every bunch of spotty 17-year olds who write a few songs, buy a knackered Transit and hit the road. It's worth remembering though that even in the early/mid 1960's the old showbiz guys still held sway -Andrew Loog Oldham was employed by Eric Easton when he was managing the Stones and Tito Burns booked the early Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix tours.
Given the importance of popular music to contemporary culture, I'd argue that Pete Frame's 'The Restless Generation' should be studied in every school. It's the story of my youth! :-)
I'd argue that Pete Frame's 'The Restless Generation' should be
Seconded. A fabulous book
A pedant writes...
the song in question was not Honky Tonk Woman, but an American country song Honky Tonk Angel.
Correction accepted sir,
but the point remains.
Good grief
Is this what we've come to?
'Move it' was a good record* and I quite like the Shads however I think that his modest CV puts Cliff on a par with Johnny Kidd and the Pirates, rather than with Elvis.
Cliff's disposable MOR period has not touched my life in any way shape or form. I am happy to believe that he's a decent cove and well done to him for lasting the pace but, really, that puts him right up there with Cilla Black and Sidney Devine. I wish none of them any ill but they have not exactly enhanced my cultural life.
*'Move it' features Richard Thompson's big sister (part of studio audience screams). And he later released a cover version, possibly for that very reason.
This is
a critical rehabilitation too far.
Stay way Rick Rubin! The man has definitely been shite for as long as I've been alive....
But isn't that the point?
We're talking about a cultural phenomenon of late 1950s Britain. By 1963 he was all over but for that couple of years 1958-60 he was untouchable.
The problem is...
for me, and I'm pretty sure anyone of my age, is that as soon as you say the words 'Cliff Richard' then it provokes unstoppable gales of laughter.
Living Doll, Mistletoe and Wine, Saviours Day, Millenium Prayer. This is damage that cannot be undone.
Next you'll be telling me that McCartney or that Keith Richards fellow with the silly hair did some decent stuff in the sixties
Remember that Tommy Steele
was also a rock god at around the same time. If anything he was bigger than Cliff for a year or so.
We were easily impressed back then :-)
My favourite record was by Uncle Mac
until I heard Move It.
Case closed.
I Agree
In The Country is my favourite Cliff Hit but all I need to think of is Mistletoe And Wine and Saviours Day to realise just how bad Cliff is/was
You have to admire..
..the fact that he's refused to marry until he finds the right girl.
The Old gag
he's not gay but would help out if they were short-handed.
We've wandered off the original point of me post somewhat...
I take everyones point that whether you like/dislike Cliff is a matter of subjective taste (for the record, I've always found him pretty inoffensive and occasionally the presenter of some damn fine pop tunes such as "Wired for Sound" and "Miss you nights")
But my point was really.... has anyone had his sheer, consistent longevity of fame in the UK?
No, I don't think they have.
Regardless of what we think of Cliff, I cannot think of anyone who has been *that* famous (a household name, let's face it) for fifty years.
How about these:
David Attenborough
June Whitfield
Sean Connery
Good call...
Maybe it's just the slightly uncommon name that means Cliff is known just as 'Cliff'.
Ah, actors are slightly different...
...as they get to 'be' other people, and therefore it is easier to have longevity.
I'd give you Attenborough, but although Whitfield has plugged on since the 1940's, I think it is very hard to argue that she is as famous/successful as Cliff Richard.
We'll Meet Again
Vera Lynn
Retired now, but still a draw for "our boys". Singing with dance bands before WW2 (when war broke out, she famously thought that it would mark the end of her career).
On a broader canvas, Churchill (70 years of fame) would take some beating.
And globally, a salute to the late Marilyn Monroe, still very very famous despite having been dead for nearly 50 years. Whither Jane Russell, Betty Grable, Brigitte Bardot etc? - pretty much confined to the history books (though Bardot still lives).
i always thought
that this was quite a tune. Still do...
Hear, hear
I know that Hep says that guilty pleasures don't exist and yet this is one of mine.
National Treasue
..is an overused phrase but if anyone qualifies for that accolode it has to be Sir Harry Cliff.
Let's
bury it then.
Rik always said it best
I'm often moved by the Cliff effect
- whenever one of his records gets played on the radio, I'm moved towards the off button.
Yikes
pretty new round these parts but thrilled to see us debating the merits of Abba at the end of 2010 and now Cliff at the start of 2011 and to think some people have the front to criticise us for being out of touch with the pop sounds of today.
Smileys and HNY to one and all
Make sure you don't miss 2011
It's Winifred Atwell vs Mrs Mills. the debate we all want but are too afraid to start it.
Welcome aboard,Ozmium.
Atwell every time.
Although I hear she is quite short and a bit of a twat.
Mrs Mills is a far more more contemporary artist....
Part of the celebrated cutting edge Krautrock metal industrial alienation/Weimar nightclub sexuality juggling combo "Leutnant Taube". And why not? Worked for Goldfrapp?
Sorry, I've been drinking. Two pints of Kelburn Breweries very fine "Cracker" Christmas brew (ABV 6%) brings out the lairy teenage scene setter in me.
"I'll take charge of the stereo from here on in. Where's the Can albums?"
Second shelf from the top
filed just to the left of your Cliff selection (if like me you have adopted the Itunes alphabtical method).
Russ Conway
Surely the true master of piano and, he had at least one finger missing.
A bit off topic perhaps...
but with regards your comment about Bobby Charlton:
"with respect to the moany Geordie baldy"
A couple of queries:
a) what does 'respect' mean here, and
b) whilst 'Geordie' and 'baldy' may be factually correct, any reason for 'Moany'?
I have tremendous respect for Sir Boaby as a player ...
But the three adjectives are, I would contend, factually correct: as someone who has trawled the biographies of most of the main players of British football in the 60's, the picture of Charlton that emerges - even from his brother - is of a somewhat po-faced individual on the park.
I'm sure he was a diamond geezer down the golf club lounge in his Fair Isle cardy with a half of mild and a Players No6 on the go, but the tale told by team mates, opponents, refs and family members is that he was a "greetin faced" player , as we say in Glasgow.
Dennis Norden
started writing "Take It From Here" in 1948, and he was a talking head on some variety thing on BBC4 tonight. Beat that, colostomy-boy...
Patrick Moore started presenting "The Sky At Night" in 1792, and remains a target for lampoonery today; and I bet he still gets more snatch-action than Cliffy.
On another thingy, David's brother Dickie-darling married Shiela Sim in 1945, which probably makes them the UK's longest running celebrity item.
A pedant replies....
But have Sir Dickie and messrs Norden and Moore had ...
A; The same levels of traffic stopping celebrity? Sir Dickie in his Ealing Studios/J Arthur Rank days perhaps..
B: Had it consistently throughout this time? Cliff appearing in you local Tesco would still block the aisle with the resultant crowd even today I'd wager. Sir Dickie could have wandered unmolested through the highways and byways for most of the last 40 years.
Well, I'll just remind you of Ronnie Hawkin's words
to Robbie Robertson when he linked up with The Hawks: "Stay with me, boy, and you'll get more pussy than Denis Norden".
Well, I'll just remind you of Ronnie Hawkin's words
to Robbie Robertson when he linked up with The Hawks: "Stay with me, boy, and you'll get more pussy than (thanks to double post recovery mode) Shiela Sim".
it was funnier
first time round.
Opinion, I guess
Certainly he was not known for being 'one of the lads'. A natural introversion coupled with seeing many of his mates killed at Munich contributed to this, I imagine.
I would argue, though that he is the wrong person to choose in your comparison with Sir Cliff, certainly in a worldwide context. Cliff may get mobbed wherever he goes in the UK - although not when he used to go the the butchers in Byfleet, so my other half tells me. But anywhere in the football playing world it would be Charlton who gets mobbed, whilst Cliff would largely pass unnoticed.
[Sorry, posted in wrong place - meant to reply to BernkastelCues comment]
I hear you brother...
A follower of the football team formerly known as Small Heath Alliance I take it?
It's all opinion really, but I think there is sufficient rope available to hang Sir Boab as a bit of an old grumpydrawers.
Take your point on Cliff probably being unable to get arrested outwith Blighty, but again, me original point was fame and it's consistent longevity in the UK.
just so eveyone knows where I stand
1) His appeal was generally based on his looks rather than any particularly remarkable vocal or musical talent.
2) His voice was a pale imitation of other Elvis imitators and remained average at best throughout all the years he peddled derivative, pseudo gospel, sentimental, TV show oriented supermarket music.
3) I don't agree that without Cliff we would not have the Stones and their successors. The inspiration for their brand of black R&B music came from a different place.
4) How on earth am I supposed to respect a guy who did not drink Jack Daniels by the gallon every day, screw groupies with fish, throw TVs out of hotel windows, crash limos into swimming pools, get out of his box on pharmaceuticals once in a while, start riots, offend politicians and clergymen, dress up in weird costumes, write elliptical mystical lyrics, hang dwarves on stage, execute himself on stage, turn the amps up to eleven and generally behave like a proper rock'n'roll star?
4) So I'm afraid I've never been tempted to listen to any of his albums and whenever I hear his singles from Living Doll (the antithesis of that wild thing of beauty that gave the human race Heartbreak Hotel and Johnny be Goode) to Mistletoe and goddam fugging Wine I turn off or leave the room.
5) On the plus side my old mum loves him.
You've unwittingly nailed it ...
"How on earth am I supposed to respect a guy who did not drink Jack Daniels by the gallon every day, screw groupies with fish, throw TVs out of hotel windows, crash limos into swimming pools, get out of his box on pharmaceuticals once in a while, start riots, offend politicians and clergymen..."
Well, speaking as someone who would be glad if the word "edgy" were banned in perpetuity (remember it is "edgy" that has bequeathed us Saw I - VI and Frankie Boyle) I like the idea of someone that completely ignores every convention of what it means to be "rock 'n' roll."
Personally I find Bobby Gillespie way more tiresomely conformist than Cliff.
and remember about whom the NME once wrote
"Must we fling this filth at our pop kids".
Sir Tom Jones?
I respect the opinion of those who saw Cliff at the time of Move It and his early rock n roll phase, and gained inspiration as a result. However, as someone who was not there to witness it, I do think it is entirely possible to imagine The Beatles and The Stones and British pop/rock since without saying Cliff had a very significant role in it's development.
The comparison with Tommy Steele is more telling than the one with Elvis surely? Cliff belongs to a line of singers/crooners and family entertainers like Steele and Engelbert and Matt Monroe and even Bruce Forsyth maybe. Nothing wrong with being a family entertainer, it's a very under rated talent but a difficult one. However, he is not a seminal figure in rock any more than The Osmonds were. Yes, Crazy Horses is a good rock song but it was no more an influence on The Sex Pistols than Move It was on The Kinks or The Who because it was a one off not a commitment. I can understand that seeing a British singer of the time doing something different had an impact but overall it was a relatively minor one wasn't it?
Perhaps, the best comparison is with Tom Jones. For me, Jones has a voice at least as good as Paul Rodgers and
he has made some really earthy records. However, he too chose the mainstream/family route and again whilst not
decrying that route, Jones is not a big influence on what followed in pop and rock. His recent return to a purer
artistic vision and, therefore, critical kudos is interesting and I believe one that Cliff R is incapable of mainly because
it is not where he wants to go now or previously. Tom Jones, to return to the question posed in the OP, is someone who has been around almost as long, and has enjoyed equal if not greater success.