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Speaking Words of Wisdom

BigJimBob's picture

Most lyrics are throw-away. Those that go for deepness are very often embarrassing six form poetry (are you listening J. Anderson, esq) but as CDC's recent strand on Mr Morrissey illustrates, some lyrics really do cut it as Proper Writing.

In fact, in one or two cases, lyrics offer aphorisms that sum up a thought I have had, but really not made concrete or even offers a code to live by. Two random examples from me.

To me this sums up modern life: "You can have anything that you want but are you disciplined enough to be free?" from I Know What I'm Here For by James

This says it all really: "And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make" I really don't need to say where this is from.

Anyone got anymore?

1

"If you want a rainbow...

You've got to put up with the rain."

And people say she's just a big pair of tits.

7
Spartacus Mills | 17 May 2011 - 11:07am

Conversely...

"If I never saw the sunshine, baby
Well maybe I wouldn't mind the rain."

2
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:00pm

One of the best songs ever but

the metaphor, being meteoroligical is illogical. Perhaps the same point is made better in (cough) James' "Sit Down"

If I hadn't seen such riches
I could live with being poor

1
STD | 17 May 2011 - 7:08pm

Tim Booth's lyrics are packed with wisdom and inspiration...

I love his stuff...

This one has always resonated, driven me on...

Take a drug to set you free
Strange fruit from a forbidden tree
You've got to come down soon
More than a drug is what I need
Need a change of scenery
Need a new life...

And for those devil may care moments...

There's a storm outside, and the gap between crack and thunder
Crack and thunder, is closing in, is closing in
The rain floods gutters, and makes a great sound on the concrete
On a flat roof, there's a boy leaning against the wall of rain
Aerial held high, calling "come on thunder, come on thunder"

Probably shouldn't delve too deeply into this one...

My therapist said not to see you no more
She said you're like a disease without any cure
She said I'm so obsessed that I'm becoming a bore, oh no
Ah, you think you're so pretty...

Never fails to bring a smile of recognition...

Those who feel the breath of sadness
Sit down next to me
Those who find they’re touched by madness
Sit down next to me
Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me

I could go on...

1
Adman | 17 May 2011 - 7:34pm

Serious Answer?

I can play hide and seek with my fears/ And live my days instead of counting my years.

That sounds wise to me.

Actual answer?

Every rose has it's thorn, just like every night has it's dawn, just like every cowboy sings his sad sad song

Dude.

4
ganglesprocket | 17 May 2011 - 11:05am

No amount of poetry can mend this broken heart

But you can put the hoover round if you want to make a start

B. Bragg

0
Mike Todd | 17 May 2011 - 11:13am

Two from the same song

Vice is a virtue with cameras and curfews

Oh to all the people that I might have offended
You probably needed it, so take your cake and eat it

E. Harcourt

1
Ahh_Bisto | 17 May 2011 - 11:20am

Not sure what this says about me, but

"It doesn´t mean that much to me to mean that much to you"

From Neil Young´s Old Man. It strikes a chord.

I do love my friends and they mean a lot to me, but I´ve never felt the need to make friends with everybody. I´m not trying to use this as an excuse to be mean to people. You know, in that sort of "I´m just saying what´s on my mind" kind of way that some people tend to do.

But it is possible to walk smiling through life without being loved by everyone.

1
Ola Claesson | 17 May 2011 - 11:40am

Obvious but no less true for that

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

and

"When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose"

0
Paul Waring | 17 May 2011 - 11:58am

Is that...

... line about the weatherman really profound?

Of course it's true that you don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing, and weathermen don't try to tell you that. You need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is going to be blowing tomorrow.

1
Inky Fingers | 17 May 2011 - 12:11pm

Also: The End.

Is the "love you take" line really profound? No. It means precisely chuff all. I've measured.

Not that it's not a great line, but it's totally meaningless, and if not meaningless then just plain untrue.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:29pm

I think it is profoundly true

at a deep level and certainly not meaningless..but there you go.

0
BigJimBob | 17 May 2011 - 12:36pm

Genuinely interested.

Genuinely interested to hear your explanation.

I've always assumed that it means "you are loved equally to the extent that you love others". Which is patently untrue, as far as I can make out. I mean, ideally, sure, but I've seen plenty of situations where that doesn't apply.

I must be missing something. What do you see in it?

1
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:39pm

I've always looked at it in wider terms

and taken it to mean you only get out of anything as much as you're prepared to put in. And if it isn't always true, in factual terms, it's still a magnificent principle to live by.

0
Mark JF | 17 May 2011 - 12:47pm

I'm with you absolutely...

...on the last part. It's still not true, though - look at the number of perfectly happy arseholes in the world, the number of utterly one-sided relationships where someone's doing all the taking because the other loves them so utterly, all the people getting paid a stack of money and sleeping like babies despite doing absolutely nothing with their working day.

But as you say, it's something to aim for.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:49pm

So the song has succeeded

because it's not a simple observation (right or wrong) but an inspiration. Which is far more important.

0
Mark JF | 17 May 2011 - 12:50pm

Haha.

Can open; worms everywhere. That argument's really interesting, but enormously complex, and I don't want to shit all over JimBob's lovely thread. Suffice it to say I don't entirely agree!

:-)

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:54pm

From the General to the particular

look at the number of perfectly happy arseholes in the world, the number of utterly one-sided relationships where someone's doing all the taking because the other loves them so utterly

One relationship is not the full calculus. YOU obviously don't love people that do that do you? Do you think the relationship will last in that stasis for ever? Also just because someone is successful and happy, do they love..... are they loved?
It isn't something to aim for: one has to work at relationships or they die - the Beatles lyric is just a poetical corollary of The Golden Rule.

0
BigJimBob | 17 May 2011 - 1:24pm

I don't think

it is direct reciprocity. Taken at its most basic if you don't engage with humanity you will not benefit from humanity. Even in public life, think of all the people who are genuinely loved..they always the ones who are not naive but still see the best in other people.

0
BigJimBob | 17 May 2011 - 12:49pm

Just commented above.

Yeah, I can see that, and I think it's a wonderful aspiration to have.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:50pm

The love you take/make

Stand on a stage in front of a few hundred people. Or, in The Beatles' case, a few more. Then it makes sense.

0
Lucas Hare | 17 May 2011 - 12:38pm

See above.

Does it? It might resonate emotionally, but emotional resonance and truth aren't always the same thing. I once heard a really good analysis of Chris Martin's lyrics, which pointed out that he's really good at saying absolutely nothing in very emotionally resonant language, which the bloke analysing it felt was a major contributing factor in Coldplay's success. So 50000 people at a Coldplay gig can be singing along to "In My Place" and feeling a huge emotional connection with it (yes, it does happen, I'm told), singing every word, and yet every word is carefully crafted to be utterly vague and generic. The bloke could teach a university course on Anthemic Vagueness In Pop Music.

Not that I'm comparing The End to anything Coldplay would do, not really. Just trying to point out that we might feel an emotional connection to something, but that doesn't mean it's true, or real.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:46pm

The truth

is rarely pure and never simple. (O Wilde)

If something resonates emotionally with someone then that is, in itself, a truth. But it's only their truth, no one else's. The beauty of that lyric from The End is that it resonates emotionally with many people. It often sounds like a summary of what The Beatles achieved through their music but it is also aspirational and timeless, like one of Polonious' maxims for Laertes in Hamlet.

It's a statement to inspire and perhaps people feel compelled to treat it as universal truth because

If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.

C.S. Lewis

Its "truth" is that it can be interpreted in many ways and, to bastardise another Wildean quote, it is a mask through which we reveal our own truth to other people.

0
Ahh_Bisto | 17 May 2011 - 1:17pm

Well...

In brief terms, I think that the world had a love affair with The Beatles. The band and their audience gave and took and awful lot of love between them. At some point you have to recognise that even a band like The Beatles would have been less without their fans; and they, for the most part, seemed to love their job. I'm not explaining this very well, but it seems to me a kind of showbiz karmic mantra, if you like. You get what you put in. You have to love what you do to a degree for others to love it too.

0
Lucas Hare | 17 May 2011 - 2:47pm

Nobody is completely altruisitc...

Or some may say.

There is a pleasure in giving that can be added to the equation make/take. For example, the one-sided relationship cited above. The devoted giver of love could gain pleasure/meaning/fulfilling a need in the act of giving whether the target recipient appreciates it or not. Conversely, the receiver may not enjoy being the object of such love, so their make/take equation is equal.

0
tiggerlion | 17 May 2011 - 9:12pm

Wisdom

Wisdom is not truth. Sometimes when they bump into each other all they do is quarrel.

0
Mike_H | 19 May 2011 - 9:16pm

What does THAT mean?

0
Bob | 19 May 2011 - 9:50pm

It means

that wisdom and truth are not the same thing. As for the rest of it, I must have had one of my turns or something.
But I'll say it again.

"Wisdom and truth are not the same thing."

The subject is Speaking Words Of Wisdom. Truth doesn't necessarily come into it.

0
Mike_H | 21 May 2011 - 10:16pm

Another thought

In McCartney’s song Young Boy from Flaming Pie (1997) there are 2 lines he repeats several times:

"Find love
And love will come looking for you."

It took a while for these lines to register with me. When you hear the first line you think he’s talking about finding someone to love you. But when you put it together with the second line you realize he’s saying first love, and then you will be loved.

When I finally figured that out, I realized he was saying the same thing he’d said in The End, 28 years earlier.

And I have to say, it made me think.

In that classic SNL ‘interview’ with Chris Farley Paul explains the meaning of the 'and in the end' lines by saying he’s found in life that the more you give, the more you get. There's no way to prove whether it's objectively true all the time for everybody, but I guess he feels it's true for him. And it does make you think about how you approach life.

(I posted this in the wrong place by mistake so skip it when you find it downstream. Sorry!)

0
eastcoast | 18 May 2011 - 12:25am

The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand.

Or so I have read.

9
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:01pm

We should probably also have a Best Bass Intro thread

That´s what I said.

0
Ola Claesson | 17 May 2011 - 12:07pm

IF - I'm Reaching Out On All Sides

I'm reaching out on all sides, I'm grabbing at the truth instead of lies.
I want it said when I am gone: I moved the world just one step on

0
Beany | 17 May 2011 - 12:02pm

You can't always get what you want.

But if you try, you just might find you get what you need.

3
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:04pm

Oh dear Bob

not sure we going to agree with much! Your comments on The End is what I've always thought about those lines.

0
BigJimBob | 17 May 2011 - 12:39pm

Brilliant!

I don't really like the Stones, but this has the ring of authenticity about it, to me. It doesn't speak in absolutes (those qualifiers "always" and "might" are important) and seems to be saying that we're rubbish at knowing what's good for us. Which we are.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:56pm

I have found it to be

full of surface cynicism. Everyone has what they need, unless they are suicidal or dying of starvation.

0
BigJimBob | 17 May 2011 - 1:09pm

Well....

...I'm a superficial cynic. What can I say? Always have been.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 1:28pm

Well, I gave you an up

...it makes perfect sense to me.

0
Helena Handcart | 17 May 2011 - 10:17pm

"And then one day you find

Ten years have gone behind you -
No one told you when to run,
You missed the starting gun."

I've been trying to avoid that pitfall since I first heard the lyric so it's clearly had an impact. And it's still a great song.

1
Mark JF | 17 May 2011 - 12:06pm
Lenny Law | 17 May 2011 - 12:41pm

Tops.

What's that, Len? I like.

0
Bob | 17 May 2011 - 12:57pm

It's "Enjoy Yourself"

by Prince Buster, later covered by The Specials.

"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think,
Enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink,
The years go by as quickly as you wink,
Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think"

0
Cadabra | 17 May 2011 - 1:27pm

It's older than you think

It's a lot older than that, I think… Ah, yes, 1949, and sung by a whole load of people over the years, including Doris Day and Bing Crosby.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjoy_Yourself_%28It%27s_Later_than_You_Thi...

0
yorkio | 17 May 2011 - 3:58pm

I do indeed

learn something new every day.

0
Cadabra | 17 May 2011 - 10:43pm

Spot the proud Radio 2 non-listener..

Simon Mayo uses various incarnations of the song as his theme on Drive every night.

0
Lenny Law | 17 May 2011 - 4:54pm

Which is a version

by Prince Buster and Jools Holland (I think) though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

0
bassclef (not verified) | 18 May 2011 - 12:41am

This one just sprung to mind...

From Laughing by David Crosby

"I thought I met a man, who say he knew a man who knew what was going on.
I was mistaken."

0
ganglesprocket | 17 May 2011 - 12:44pm

Akala

Yours And My Children

"The idea of races has no factual basis
It was made just to serve racists
To justify to doing to some what couldn¹t be done
To others, but they all are our sons"

"So if some were superior, others inferior, based on exterior
Well then surely the sun would know and fall in to line?
It would rain on your crops and not mine?
Air would prefer to inhabit your lungs?
Food would prefer the taste of your tongue?
If that¹s not the case then nature has declared
Despite what we say the worlds in fact fair"

Fantastic way with words that really hit home on such a deep topic.

2
badger_king | 17 May 2011 - 1:54pm

People just ain't no good

but I think thats well understood

1
DogFacedBoy | 17 May 2011 - 2:37pm

Awopbopaloobop

Alopbamboo
Just about says it all

1
policybloke1 | 17 May 2011 - 3:04pm

aWopbambooM

Get it right, or it'll just sound like jibberish.

1
Cadabra | 17 May 2011 - 10:44pm

Pedantry committee in session

I would contend that it is "aLopbamboom". Nik Cohn would agree.

1
Nick White | 18 May 2011 - 8:19am

Teenage dreams

So hard to beat.

0
Spartacus Mills | 17 May 2011 - 3:06pm

What we believe in is just a feelin'

I love the 'not everything that can be measured matters and not everything that matters can be measured'ness of it.

Felt very true to me when I was clubbing years ago, feels very true to me now that I'm embarking on a new career as a counsellor.

0
Cobweb Steve | 17 May 2011 - 3:29pm

Bruce on dreams

Two lyrics from The River have always resonated with me, more so as I've got older:

"Once I spent my time playing tough guy scenes
But I was living in a world of childish dreams
Someday these childish dreams must end
To become a man and grow up to dream again"
(Two hearts)

and

"Is a dream a lie if it don't come true
Or is it something worse?"
(The River)

Bruce has always been good on the difference between things as they are and things as we'd like them to be, and how we perceive that difference.

0
Tim Turner | 17 May 2011 - 4:00pm

Yes

Bruce is good at writing how I feel and think. Good examples there, Tim!

0
Ola Claesson | 17 May 2011 - 4:59pm

And this one

Everybody's got a secret, Sonny,
Something that they just can't face,
Some folks spend their whole lives trying to keep it,
They carry it with them every step that they take.
Till some day they just cut it loose
Cut it loose or let it drag 'em down,
Where no one asks any questions,
or looks too long in your face,
In the darkness on the edge of town.

0
Chris Young | 17 May 2011 - 9:09pm

And this one

Well if you can't make it
Stay hard, stay hungry, stay alive
If you can
And meet me in a dream of this hard land

0
Ola Claesson | 17 May 2011 - 9:27pm

I don't know where

but she sends me there.

1
Pax Romana | 17 May 2011 - 4:36pm

Once again, the answer is The Monkees

Not a lyric but a line from 'Head'.....
'The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want'.

1
ranger | 17 May 2011 - 5:31pm

God

gave Rock and Roll to you...

0
Adman | 17 May 2011 - 5:40pm

Mr Don McLean

And when no hope was left in sight
on that starry starry night.
You took your life as lovers often do;
But I could have told you Vincent
this world was never meant
for one as beautiful as you.

0
Baskerville Old Face | 17 May 2011 - 5:54pm

Had a motorcycle at ten

never got into heroin, I guess I wanna live.

Gonna get a house one day, find a wife, raise a family
but that don't mean you have to die.

1
MyAmericanMate | 17 May 2011 - 6:01pm

As Leonard Cohen said

in the 2009 concerts ' I have stumbled on the answer'

which is 'Doo Dum Dum Dum Dee Doo Dum Dum'

from the ending of The Tower of Song

0
hubertrawlinson | 17 May 2011 - 7:27pm

You give a little love and it all comes back to you...

...la la la la la la la...
Yeah, you're gonna be remembered for the things that you say and do...
...la la la la la la la...

From the unbeatable final scene of "Bugsy Malone".

[I suspect all the comments above about HJH's "The End" apply to these lines too. But I still like 'em.]

3
Nick White | 17 May 2011 - 8:27pm

oooooh

I get all goose-bumpy whenever I hear that!

0
ivan | 18 May 2011 - 4:00pm

Some mixed Currie

That goes some way to verbalising my life in lyrics. Some may see 6th form noodling, some may not but it works for me.

On love

"A familiar face with a loving smile greets you every day
And failure seeps a little deeper through your life
Yeah sure you gave some girl your heart, but you never used it anyway"

"Don't get so distressed
If the good life won't arrive
You've been reading S.O.S.
When it's just your clock reading 5:05
And why are you so possessed
By the thought that she got free
And why are you figuring who's the best
When just your luck ran out
and she chose me"

On Life

"A struck match faded like a nervous laugh
Beyond the halo of a naked bulb
Your low voice mingles with your other half's
Schoolfriends in second-hand clothes
Eventually your world will shrink within four walls
Of neglected debts and stolen stereos."

"Checkout calamity, you're cheated out of loyalty points,
Ten more years at this joint you'd be home & dry,
Beggars beat round the cash machines but you just
Slip between them with the usual lie.
Terrible tales of kidnapped kids keep you
Focused on the family and filling up the fridge,
Neighbourhood watchers shop dole dodgers, stick their
Semis on the market & start racking up the bids."

0
Dave Amitri | 17 May 2011 - 8:43pm

"They say it's better to

"They say it's better to have lost and lost
Than never have loved at all
But if you sit down and count the cost
Of all those losses
Then there's no profit at all"

Thanks Justin. That got me through several arguments with my best friend after I'd been dumped. Again.

0
sitheref2409 | 18 May 2011 - 1:06am

"Give a little love

take a little love
Be prepared to forsake a little love
and when the sun comes shining through
you'll know what to do."
Sage advice there..

0
Mr Fade | 17 May 2011 - 9:13pm

What if

...the Prince on the horse in your fairytale
Is right here in disguise

Carly Simon

Saved me from a lot of bother, that one has.

1
Helena Handcart | 17 May 2011 - 10:21pm

Watch out

...where the huskies go
and don't you eat that yellow snow

Frank Zappa

0
Mike_H | 17 May 2011 - 10:41pm

Take away the threat of death...

...and all you're left with is a round of make-believe....

0
Fitter Stoke | 17 May 2011 - 11:56pm

Another thought

In McCartney’s song Young Boy from Flaming Pie (1997) there are 2 lines he repeats several times:

Find love
And love will come looking for you.

It took a while for these lines to register with me. When you hear the first line you think he’s talking about finding someone to love you. But when you put it together with the second line you realize he’s saying first love, and then you will be loved.

When I finally figured that out, I realized he was saying the same thing he’d said in The End, 28 years earlier.

And I have to say, it made me think.

In that classic SNL ‘interview’ with Chris Farley Paul explains the meaning of the 'and in the end' lines by saying he’s found in life that the more you give, the more you get. There's no way to prove whether it's objectively true all the time for everybody, but I guess he feels it's true for him. And it does make you think about how you approach life.

0
eastcoast | 18 May 2011 - 12:19am

Throw out your gold teeth

and see how they roll
the answer they reveal
life is unreal

Thank you Uncle Donald and Auntie Walter

0
Mousey | 18 May 2011 - 5:44am

But

a) what do you do if you don't have gold teeth?
b) do teeth (gold or otherwise) actually roll? I would have thought they would just land, given the shape.

Perhaps a video of the Word staff attempting this exercise would reveal the answer (and in passing whether life is, in fact, unreal)

0
Humphrey Plugg | 18 May 2011 - 9:12am

Depends, really.

A gold crown, when removed from the tooth to which it is fixed, might roll a bit. The entire tooth wouldn't, though.

0
Lenny Law | 18 May 2011 - 12:51pm

I don't think this was mentioned on the Moz thread...

It's so easy to laugh
It's so easy to hate
It takes guts to be gentle and kind

0
Paolo Meccano | 18 May 2011 - 1:33pm

Happy Talk

Happy talk, keep talking happy talk;
Talk about things you like to do.
You've got to have a dream -
If you don't have a dream
How you gonna have a dream come true?

0
Nick White | 18 May 2011 - 4:25pm

People put me down it's such a shame

Maybe it's my clothes must be to blame
I don't even care if I look a mess
Don't want to be a sucker like all the rest.

0
pompeygeorge | 18 May 2011 - 8:49pm

How could you believe me when I said I loved you

When you know I've been a liar all my life?

0
FakeGeordie | 18 May 2011 - 9:43pm

Nick Lowe

Of all god's creatures man must be
The most slimy and slippery.
There stands the naked ape in a monkey suit
Behind a little mustache he grew, the shifty brute.
All those not choking on the words they ate
Are sweating on getting their stories straight.

All men. All men are liars.
Their words ain't worth no more than worn out tyres.
Hey girls, bring rusty pliers to pull this tooth
All men are liars and that's the truth.

0
Mike_H | 19 May 2011 - 3:18am

B.Bragg again

I saw two shooting stars last night
I wished on them
But they were only satellites
It's wrong to wish on space hardware

plus

Once upon a time at home
I sat beside the telephone
Waiting for someone to pull me through
When at last it didn't ring I knew it wasn't you

Teenage-me could have done worse than actually pay attention to those lines when listening to the song over and over...

1
BoPeep | 19 May 2011 - 1:58pm

Monkees

I'm seeing them tonight. It would be great if someone came on at the beginning and said this.

0
Val Jennings | 19 May 2011 - 2:26pm

"Mister Grimsdale! Mr. Grimsdale!!"

No...come back...

0
skirky | 19 May 2011 - 3:27pm

And the best thing

That you ever done for me
Is to help me take my life less seriously
Cos it's only life after all.

0
jimmyshoes01 | 19 May 2011 - 3:43pm

Tom Petty

I'm so tired of being tired
Sure as night will follow day
Most things I worry about
Never happen anyway

0
NE1 | 19 May 2011 - 11:18pm

John Lennon quote

"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"

I know it's a bit of a cliche and on a million posters, but it is still wise and it's still true.

1
Austin | 20 May 2011 - 3:52am

I'm only bleedin'

'He who's not busy bein' born is a busy dyin'

1
bladderman | 20 May 2011 - 4:17am

'It's a fool who plays it cool

by making his world a little colder.'

3
Nick | 20 May 2011 - 4:20am
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