Entertainment For Lively Minds
Songs that need bits taken out to improve them
Posted by Steve Turner on 10 March 2011 - 1:31pm.
I have invested in the PJ Harvey album and mighty fine it is too. However the third track 'The Glorious land' which is a monster song is ruined by the unnecessary inclusion of the 'Cavalry charge' car horn so popular in the seventies. Not once but four times. It doesnt work and weakens a great song. I need someone to take it off the song as it is an irritating distraction.
Anyone have great songs ruined by unnecessary bits?
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The Hero and The Madman
from Vagabonds of The Western World by Thin Lizzy. An otherwise wonderful song is spoiled by a couple of cringeworthy spoken parts by none other than David 'Kid' Jensen. What were they thinking?
Bit pedantic
The bit on Tin Soldier by Small Faces where he's singing the verses and - not sure what's this called - there's like a backwards drum loop going before the song kicks in. Love the song but it really jars with me.
Drum loop?...
..that's a fill.
Played by a real drummer.
It's fab.
I suspect...
...sleepy's referring to the heavily-gated reverb return on the snare. (S)he did say it was during the verses. It's a bit more pronounced in the stereo version, due to the extreme panning of the mix - it always sounded to me like somebody closing a door repeatedly at the end of a long corridor!
I'm pretty sure that..
..gated reverb was about 13 years away whenTin Soldier was recorded.
George Chkiantz tells me
George Chkiantz tells me that it was the snare reverb return being fed back through a gate. As he recorded it, and it was an effect of which he was justifiably proud, I believe him.
I don't think it sounds anything like a gated drum sound..
..no matter what he calls it.
(Engineers are notorious for claiming they "invented" procedures.)
And yet it sounds exactly like it...
...to me. The effect can be recreated at home by using a cheap reverb pedal, a send pot and a quick hand. As used on "Tin Soldier" it's subtly done and only on certain beats in the verses (reverb send delayed with tape echo) - a world away from the ghastly Phil Collins drum sound of 15 years later.
George is one of the most modest, self-effacing men you could ever meet and has enough credits on his CV not to need to claim credit for other peoples' "inventions."
It's possible, of course, that we're both listening to and talking about different parts of the same record. With that in mind, I'm off to listen to it now, rather than over-analysing the damned thing!
Oooooh
This techy talk is getting me excited (genuinely). Will need to look up this song on Spotify to see what the fuss is about.
And yes, I agree that gated reverb was perfectly feasible in 1967. It was a stylistic innovation when it took off, not a technological innovation. And shouldn't we blame Mr Bowie (on "Low") rather than Mr Collins?
Whoah
IAN MCLAGAN: I played an instrument on that and I have no idea what it was. I thought it was a theremin, but it wasn't. It had no keys on it, and you put your hand on there ... it was there for some sort of orchestral thing they were doing in the studio. "Afterglow" is a real good one. I really like "Tin Soldier".
KEN SHARP: You know what really bugs me about that song are those off-time cymbal crashes...
IAN MCLAGAN: I know! Glyn! It was just an echo, it's not even off beat.
KEN SHARP: Maybe when you do a real reissue you can take that off...
IAN MCLAGAN: I know, I want to! I would absolutely do that! But it would be unfair to change the way the song originally came out for those who like that bit -- maybe an alternate mix just for you and me ... that was Glyn Johns idea, that bit of delay. It was a useless idea, really. He did get some really great sounds for us, though.
Cheers.
Have an Up.
Bloody hell
The drumming on that is wonderful.
Next you'll be saying the phased drums on Itchycoo Park sound like a washing machine sample.
Kenney Jones was a Ringo kind of drummer - played The Song
early Squeeze and Police
singles had lots of twiddly middle bits (Cool For Cats say or Can't Stand Losing You).
Possibly the pre-punk muso slipping out?
Einer from The Sugarcubes
always gets it in the neck when this subject comes up.
And Fred from The B52s?
I had a friend who thinks Macca's bit in A Day In The Life spoils it. I'm not having that.
Agree with that...
...but Macca's wigging out at the end of Hey Jude makes me cringe.
A Day In The Life
I shared your friend's opinion until recently. Macca's hair-combing exploits provides an element of comic relief so that John's final section can raise the tension and goose-bumps
And we let the goldfish go....
I really like this song by The Brown Eyed Girl Hit Maker but find the spoke word bit a beginning a little hard to take (by Paul Durcan?) it's oddly stilted and well odd. Thankfully Van comes in and saves it all.
That PJ Harvey song...
I just cannot understand why she chose to include that 'cavalry charge' bit. As you say, it just doesn't work at all. It's quite interesting actually, as I can't think of another record where a production decision has resulted in something sounding so totally out of place.
I spent
forty minutes in the company of Ms Harvey on my settee on Sunday morning and found the whole album to be a lot different from what I expected.
The little toot of the calvary enhanced the experience for me as I had been led to believe that the album was quite dark and dirgey. But the album, for the most part was inventive, playful and wholly accesible.
I even grinned when the offending sample first appeared and I don't think it outstayed its welcome either.
40 minutes on your sette
with Ms Harvey? You must be knackered. Go for a lie down!!
Trrm-tsch!
Mr Contrary
I quite like it..its like a mad trumpeting Uncle next door
The Monkees - Valleri
Was listening to this the other day.
It has always annoyed me that there is a fat, no-so-subtle rip-off of the "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" riff that just appears, unannounced and completely incongruously, for no apparent reason a couple of times through an otherwise rather fine pop song.........
If it wasn't there, I'd listen to the song more often.
The Slits
That whirry bit in the middle of I Heard It Through The Grapevine could go.
That annoying
piano bit in 'Something In the Air'. Ruins an otherwise perfect song.
You beat me to it, Eddie
Horrible, isn't it.
"Variations on Chopsticks" .
Sounds like the band all stood at the piano and played it with their knobs.
Er no
That's a wonderful piano solo. The chords keep changing and building unexpectedly unlike chopsticks.Then it goes into the syncopated second section which is unlike anything I have heard before or since.
That's what I reckon anyway.
Every Thunderclap Newman song
has that "annoying piano bit".
It was their raison d'être, if you will.
Thunderclap Newman was the pet project of Pete Townshend and was formed around the Bix Beiderbecke-style piano skills of Andy "Thunderclap" Newman.
Newman was a GPO engineer who couldn't/wouldn't play rock & roll and together with Who manager Chris Stamp, Townshend assembled the band around him.
They added the songwriting & vocal ability of John "Speedy" Keen (Townshend's driver at the time) and the guitar wizardry of the teenage Jimmy McCulloch (later to join Wings, of course). Townshend produced and played bass under the name Bijou Drains.
It's rumoured that the first time Newman, Keen and McCulloch met was when they arrived at the studio to record Something In The Air.
Thunderclap Newman's solitary album Hollywood Dream is a truly magical affair full of great tunes and gentle British psych infused with Newman's quite surreal piano interludes. It also includes Open the Door, Homer, an early recording of one of Dylan's then-unreleased Basement Tapes tracks which were being hawked around London in 1968.
The follow-up single to Something In The Air was Accidents, a great little song which flopped disastrously. The re-recorded album version of Accidents however is a 9 min psych wig-out which is worth the price of admission alone.
Keen and McCullough are no longer with us, but I believe Andy Newman keeps the name Thunderclap Newman going with the odd live date.
Very informative Mojo..
..but unless Andy Newman played piano like Bix played the trumpet..
Perhaps you meant Bix's contemporary Jelly Roll Morton.
A common mistake Shane
Although better known as a cornet player, Bix was also a fine pianist. He didn't record much on the piano, but wrote many innovative compositions for the instrument. Ry Cooder's Jazz album is testament to this, notably the track In A Mist.
http://www.rivermontrecords.com/bsv2212.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bix_Biederbecke
http://www.therockandrollarchive.com/Speedy_Keen_2
Thank you Mojosir,
I have that album and quite like it but, sad to say, I still find that piano bit in SITA supremely irritating. I naturally understand the urge to stretch songs beyond their comfort zones sometimes and to challenge conventional expectations ( otherwise why bother? ), but this piece of doodling has always struck me as being almost completely disposable. Interestingly, when the band re-recorded the song recently they did away with it. It's the one I listen to most these days.
But hey, you know, I'm probably wrong.
Wrong?
Not at all, it's just personal taste, innit?
I just felt moved to explain at inordinate and tedious length exactly why that 'annoying piano bit' was in there.
But, hey, you already knew ;-)
Well I love that big piano wig-out bit
Sounds completely unlike anything else at the time. A bit like 'Albatross' must have sounded. A good year.
Light My Fire - The Doors
A US number 1 in '67 but, crucially, the ponderous organ solo was (admittedly with little finesse!) edited out.
Alas, the version you always hear is the LP version.
Yes. Ditto
The Stranglers' cover of Walk On By. Also spoiled by too much organ noodling.
Spoken word bits
... generally rubbish. I think the only one I actually like is Loaded. Am I the only person in the world who really hates bloody Little Fluffy Clouds?
When it was in the charts,...
...in my local radio days, I did an arbitrary edit on The Spice Girls' "Say You'll Be There," removing that half-hearted "I'll give you everything, on this I swear" spoken-word bit before the final chorus and fade. One of the DJs liked it and played it on the air. Our switchboard girl was not pleased - she spent the next couple of hours fielding calls from spotty teenaged boys asking where they could buy this special version.
The edit worked wonders on the track, in my opinion.
What´s He Building is spoken word, I think
A very minor offence, so I'm probably being overly critical...
... here but each chorus of XTC's otherwise masterly "You And The Clouds Will Still Be Beautiful" ends with an Andy Partridge grunt.
It sounds as though Andy's on the chodbin having difficulty opening the bomb bay doors.
Each to their own
I actually quite like AP's little vocal tics and quirks generally. Makes listening to his stuff even more interesting and gives you something to copy when driving and listening, although I hope I'm not giving it any chodbin/bomb bay face action as I do it.
it's a dirty job, but ...
Primal Scream's records would be great if they took out the music. And the lyrics. And the rock star posturing.
And if Joanna Newsom
got rid of the harp and the voice she wouldn't be too bad either.
Ringo
'Don't Pass Me By' would be hailed as a classic if it wasn't for that ruddy violin.
Speaking of violins
Every note that Scarlet Riviera played on Desire.
Oh no..
..but I'd tie two of bloody Rob Stoners fingers together,
I Can't Agree.
I love the band on Desire - from Scarlet to Stoner and everything in between. And on stage (Live 1975, Hard Rain), they ROCKED.
Me too.
She was a real enigma by all accounts.
Take your point.
Except that it's on the White Album, aka A Doll's House, and therefore absolutely fine. If it had been on A Hard Day's Night or Rubber Soul, then yes, it would be jarring.
Zep's Whole Lotta Love
And that awful experimental percussive bit in the middle where it's sounds like Bonzo has shunned his drum kit and has resorted to tapping various half-empty milk bottles with tea spoons instead
Try listening to it
on acid.
squeak squeak
... on Led Zep III's 'since i've been loving you' - is it a drum pedal? anyway, drove me mad when i bought the remastered version and heard it for the first time.
You´ve just ruined one of my Zep favourites
It MUST be the pedal. Damn it!
Satellite of Love
'I've been told that you've been bold,
with Harry, Mark and John.
Monday to tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday...
...You've spoilt the bleedin' song.'
Lou Reed when the smack wears off. Jolly.
Fantastic rewrite!
Have an uppie - I think that will stay with me forever. I don't mind that bit myself mind, just fits with the general campness of the track. I imagine the bloke in the cap on the cover singing it. Lou lost it when he lost his camp mojo.
The Velvet Underground version
on the Fully Loaded CD has:
I've been told that you've been bold
With Winkin, Blinkin, and Nod
So think yourself lucky.
Twilight Alehouse
By Genesis. After the line: "children follow me with laughter, so cold." there is the most horribly forced fake laugh. Ruins a perfectly good song.
John Cage's
4' 33" needs to have 37 seconds taken out just after the two minute mark.
You know, when it goes ' '.
That annoying Steve Gadd drum part...
that opens Paul Simon's 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover.
Oh my aching sides... my sense of humour kills me.
Yes,
spoils an otherwise perfectly serviceable song.
/partridge off
/partridge off?
I'm confused!
Sorry,
I agree with your (non sarcastic) definition of Paul Simon's 50wtlyl.
I attempted to continue with your theme in the style of Alan Partridge, followed by an equally ill-conceived attempt at HTML in-jokery.
All in all, it went well ;-)
Aha!
Now I'm with you.
bohemian rhapsody
the bit in the middle, after the run in groove and the run out groove.
Scaramouche Scaramouche will you do the
Fandango? Thunderbolt and lightning, very very frightening indeed.
Frightening that it sold millions.
The Ironic Twist
Far be it from me to suggest that you simply don't get it, but the sampled cavalry charge horn makes the difference between greatness and merely very good. The record as a whole is to these ears the most accomplished of Ms. Harvey's career and what sets it apart from a darker version of Kate Bush in Army Dreamers mode is, among other things, the use of these little punctuation marks. The familiarity of that horn sound combined with its incongruity and the context of origin is the essence of irony, a quality not found too often in quality pop music these days. Are you by any chance American?
Never mind the Cavalry Charge
Stand by for the MAM charge.
(Mind you on this occasion he'll have some justification...)
Rockin' Chair by The Band
Only very slightly spoilt by the daft little chinese motif right at the very end. I remember seeing the Classic Album dissection, where the producer and Levon Helm asked, "what were we thinking?"
Any Song
with a Sax solo
nope,
born to run is amazing....
As are Careless Whisper
and Baker Street.
yes but ...
It would have been so much better if Clarence had never met Bruce. Sax belongs in proper jazz with no exceptions. Not even Baker Street.
Foiled
again!
Bob Holness writes
in his memoirs that his refusal to take up Bruce's offer of a place in the E Street Band and his decision to continue chancing his arm on the session scene is one of his biggest regrets.
Would that be
Baker Street by Gerry Rafferty? Anyone know what happened to him?
No idea
He's been a bit quiet as of late.
step forward the biggest crime
Hazel O'Connor - Will You
Bollocks
Where does 40's/50's R&B fit into your theory? Little Richard? Fats Domino?
Or indeed the fabulous sax solo on...
... Gruppo Sportivo's 'Lasting Forever.'
What About Aja...
with Wayne Shorter. And Young Americans with David Sanborn. Doctor Wu and Caves of Altamira with Phil Woods. Every Little Richard song with Lee Allen. Memphis Soul Stew by King Curtis. Shotgun by Jr. Walker. Urgent by Foreigner (Jr. Walker again). The list goes on...
I'm pro PJ here.
Even though that trumpet alarum reminds me of Reggie Perrin when they're living in a commune and his Geoffrey Palmer takes charge of waking them up in the morning as only he knows how.
Never liked
The drum machine in Robert Palmer's Johny and Mary. Have it taken away please.
Thank you for the days
Much as I love the song I always thought Sunny Afternoon by the Kinks went on too long. it sort of reached it's natural end but then repeated all over again.
Hip Hop without the rapping
would improve not all but loads of tracks.
Yeah I'm with you there
Earlier hip hop seemed to have more instrumental elements, putting into practice the concept of hip hop as taking the best instrumental bits of records and giving you more of them. Ironically the rapping bits of records inspired by hip hop are often the worst bits. While I like Gorillaz I'd like those hits a lot more rap-less.
That bit in "My Sharona"..
..that sounds like Boston, and that bit in "Don't Fear The Reaper" where the cowbell stops and the widdling takes over.
The Widdly Reaper
Yep, that's the unecessary bit I was thinking about - oddly enough I wasn't even aware of it until about a week ago when I played (for the first time it would seem) the full song - it was a bit of an unpleasant surprise really.
The Widdly Reaper
TMFTL
Fanfare for the Common Man
All the bits that ELP did that were not in the original
Extremely annoying giggle in Big Yellow Taxi
When John Travolta in a no-backbone way goes "Ooooohhh" in Summer Nights
The yodelling bit in Hocus Pocus
there are so many
2 out of 3 ain't bad
Fully agree with you on Joni's silly giggle and Travolta's feeble "oooh" but having a pop at the finest yodellers in rock? I'm not having that!
All that breathing...
I could quite like Muse and Keane both but for the massive gulp of air before each line. I honestly think it's more intrusive than women's tennis grunting.
Oh and while we're at it can someone please remove the last word of Suzanne Vega's "The Queen and the Soldier"?
Sorry
That should have been "The Queen and The Soldier".
In fact now it is. Forgot there was an edit button.
That's alright Baron
Just thought you had removed the last word already.
Iron Maiden - Powerslave
One of their greatest riffs, chugs along brilliantly and atmospherically (great lyrics - "The Eye of Horus", all that), until the guitar solo when all the momentum and menace is lost - I never thought I'd say this but I want a Light My Fire style radio edit
SPAAAACEMAN...
intro for TV ad
Babylon Zoo's one and only hit has to be the ultimate example here?
Yes
but — in the same vein — I'd also add Inside by Stiltskin
the Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead
The bit where the band go "hooray!" in the background. I don't mind it myself but the FPO cringes every time.
The bits in songs by The Smiths
where the singer sings
Dylan's Harmonica Solos
Sometimes effective but mostly the songs would benefit from their absence
Aztec Camera's debut and those ruddy hexagonal drums...
..(notably on Pilar To Post)...
Young prodigy, classic singer songwriter in the traditional mould....
....
....
.... oh go on, let's put those annoying echoey hexagonal drums over the top!!!
Is that whole album just one big echo?
My original lp had a white inner sleeve and, as no producer was credited on the cover, I thought maybe they had produced it themselves and inadvertently left some knob turned up to 11. No other record I own sounds like it...
I must admit
I only skimmed your post originally, and thought you'd written 'inadverently let some knob turn up at 11(pm)' and assumed you were talking about Oasis and their recording of '(WTS)MG'.
Sweet Child of Mine
In the good old days of doing tapes for my car, I always used to fade this one out just as Axl started singing "Where do we go?"
Never Ever by All Saints
A fine pop song with a truly shite spoken word intro.
To back up the poster up above, Joni Mitchell's apalling fake laugh in Big Yellow Taxi is an offense to all who possess ears.
Joni Mitchell's
Big Awful Fake Laugh always makes me c-r-i-n-g-e for her, but then it was 1970 & I guess it was a 'good idea' at the time.
It is irritating..
..but I don't buy that it's fake..
She just reacting to her "basso profundo" last line, which I believe was spontaneous.
Starlings by Elbow
The off-key horn blasts on the opening track of The Seldom Seen Kid. So jarring that I skip that track whenever I play the album.
off-key horn blasts
ooooh!! just about my favourite bit of the song - but i always did like a good din
Theatre of hate
Had a song called freaks on the Westworld album.
I used to sit there with friends listening to the album and then feel embarrassed as during that song was a parping sax solo version of what I am sure is clown music.
Why boys, you must have listened back and realised what a shit idea it was.....?
The trumpet on After The Goldrush
Nice idea, nice sound, nicely played.
But it's about a half tone out of key. Drives me mad.
Very influential on Tony Hadley
though he preferred the style of a foghorn to the trumpet.