Entertainment For Lively Minds
Singers who *really* can't sing
I'm probably asking for trouble here, or at least inviting a rehearsal of the old "Bob Dylan can't sing" - "Yes he can" debate. In the hope of sidestepping this familiar rut, I'm not intending to take a pot shot at Pop Stars I Just Don't Like, rather to wonder at people who get to be singers in bands when - to most ears - they simply don't have the pipes, even at the most remedial level. I got to thinking about this the other day when my nearest and dearest was playing The Soft Parade by the Flaming Lips, and I remarked to her "I really like them when he isn't singing." To fans I'm surely missing the whole point of them, but I find it almost painful to hear his ricepaper-thin vocals struggling to raise themselves above the parapets. He seems a lovely man and I like the music, but sheesh!
Next example: Louise Wener of Sleeper. Sleeper were of little consequence, I know, but they had some good songs. Given that she was the main songwriter and lyricist, and that she was very easy on the eye, it's no surprise to see her out front. But, as someone succinctly points out in the comments below this youtube clip, she couldn't sing for toffee.
Final example: Conor Deasy of The Thrills. This man makes Louise Wener sound like Annie Lennox. Even in the studio, it sounds as if the rest of the band would only have had to breathe too loudly to drown him out. This is a shame, as they made one of my favourite singles of the last few years in Whatever Happened to Corey Haim? What made him think he could sing? Who knows?
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At the risk of personal injury...
Gram Parsons
No arguments from me..
..Gram Parsons was a fairly poor singer, and while I´m at it Townes van Zandt was no great shakes either.
I'm gonna stand up for Townes and Gram....
....because they're not really singers as such. I know they sing but I'd class them more as writers.
Gram and Townes were artists....*real* people who expressed themselves through their art.
ps see Duffy coke ad thread for manufactured people.
Gram Parsons
And that's one of the things that's good about him. It's all in the flaws.
Exactly
There is a difference between "proper" singing and the ability to prtray the content of a song. This is why LPs by supposedly "proper" singers covering other peoples songs are so irredeemably naff: witness this, whatever you think of the Eagles, don't tell me Don Henley doesn't do it better......
(I was looking for his version of "Dimming of the Day" to really jam it down, but, thank the Lord, I couldn't find it!)
How about
Brandon Flowers?
I'm not a fan of the band by any means but whenever I've seen them live on TV, there's all this noise and bombast from the crowd... then this fella comes on and sings in a thin, out-of-tune, uncomfortable voice. Or is that just me?
Seconded
It is a horrible reedy bellow if that's not too much of a contradiction
Thrills
Agree on Conor. Really lets the band down.
Neil Tennant
As someone else pointed out, sounds like Hartley Hare.
I see your point...
But, as one annoying teacher at my school used to say, I don't take it. I like PSB, though I'm not a big fan; Neil Tennant is never going to set the world on fire as a singer, and I can imagine how his timbre could provoke abreactions. However, I'd still argue that he is at least a capable singer. His voice (which surely sounds like Al Stewart, even more than Hartley Hare?) is strong enough to stand up to exposure in this rather fine version of Rent, for example.
Love the bit at the start
'You dress me up, I'm your Puppet'
I have no idea
...what a Hartley Hare is, or sounds like. But even tho I totally love PSB, all too often when Neil is singing I catch myself thinking, "Ah, here's Eric Idle about to segue into Always Look on the Bright Side of Life".
He was always 'Being Naughty'
Wowsers.
Thanks for that. I don't hear any similarity to Tennant's voice in Hartley, myself. Gotta love a glove puppet, tho, who buys himself a glove puppet (how meta is that), then chats it up suggestively: "You can be naughty with a glove puppet... can't you?". I can only hope lines like that became enduringly smutty catch-phrases on the playgrounds.
This clip's...
quite unrepresentative of the Tennant/Hare interface - it really shows when Hartley's 'giving it some lung', unfortunately there's no clips of Hartley singing on You Tube (that I could find anyway), I believe he had them all removed when he retired to work on his painting.
You're Right
I couldn't find a clip of him singing unfortunately. Maybe Tennant had them removed?
now you mention it...
have you ever seen them in the same room together?
Nico
I do love her stuff and I'm a huge fan, but let's be honest - she can't sing a note in tune.
Grace Jones just talks her way through songs and when she does sing, she really shouldn't.
Ringo's not up to much either.
Can't agree on Nico…
… because she sings with such a heavy accent and minimal vibrato, her voice sounds unusual, but she rarely sounds out of tune to me. But hey, decide for yourselves…
Now, Beth Orton, on the other hand…
Great clip!
I had no idea she had made any records before the Velvet Underground. Sounds fine there.
As for Beth Orton: objection! Perhaps I'm painting myself into Pedantry Corner here, but I'm not talking about singers who might hit the odd bum note live - let's face it, plenty of those we regards as good singers do that. Beth's voice is not the strongest, but I find it beautiful and soulful. Any excuse to post a link to her best song, the exquisite Thinking About Tomorrow.
There's also a live version on youtube, which doesn't have the magic of the album version, but shows (to my satisfaction at least) that she can sing.
Actually…
… 'pitchy' issues aside, I do like the timbre of Beth's voice. (And she seems like a nice person.)
Ditto Gram Parsons - he might not have been a great singer, but he could deliver a song.
No problem there
Voices like that, or Rickie Lee Jones's, which Beth Orton's resembles a bit, work within their limitations and can work very well. The same goes for the rexers - those who talk-sing à la Rex Harrison. (Ian Dury, for example, was a rexer.)
I think Azeem and I are on the same wavelength (A = 440 Hz, please) here: to qualify as a truly Bad Singer you must have vocal ideas that are stratospherically above your station, leading to you to attempt - and fail - to sing well.
Now then, now then. How is it possible for this thread to have gone on for so long without anyone mentioning David Byrne?
You mean this David Byrne?
At the risk of sounding pedantic
Hertz is the SI unit of frequency
I'll get me (lab)coat...
It's about sex
It's about the girl on the tube. The one you didn't have the guts to talk to. It's about the girl you've always been in love with but have yet to meet. It's about the girls at college - shoulder bags and bicycles, occasional vegetarians, wine from the bottle swigged, doobies and the disastrous affair with the professor/teacher/whatever. You know - knowing and oddly naive. A hint of depravity, a hint of conventionality too. Daddy was a doctor after all. Summers in Aix. Listening to Kate and Chrissie. Piaf - bien sur - and Billie - "my God, the first time I heard Strange Fruit...like, wow!".
It's about Beth G, Beth O and Thea Gilmore. It's about being British. Or French. Or French-British. Birkin and Kirstin Scott-T. It's about Cassie from Skins and Clemence Poesy. Unless - it's about Cat Power. It's about tone, timbre, smoke and husk, whisper and warble. Yes, they can sing. No, they can't. It's about the afternoon at that hotel in Canterbury. It's about sex.
Strewth...
Move the lines about a bit, Sheev, and this is a poem. Wonderful. Not untrue too.
Space siren
A long-time favourite singing, non-singer is Rosie Cuckston of Birmingham-based, sonic antiquarians - Pram.
Cuckston’s vocal shortcomings; her limited range and one-track, child-like delivery are balanced out by her sincerity and enthusiasm. She’s like the anti-Mariah Carey.
I invite anyone with Spotify to listen to her straining for the high notes in the chorus of the marvellous Bewitched:
http://open.spotify.com/track/546Lpc1UJYLVLLL02w6Cif
Good spot…
… I also love Pram - although Rosie does occasionally cross the pain threshold. But yes - infinitely preferable in every way to the Mariahs of this world.
Tainted Larynx
Marc Almond tries, he really tries, but I seriously think he must be clinically tone deaf - literally unable to distinguish between a note that's on key and one that's not. Ever.
This isn't just bad; it's Horror of Quite Unprecedented Proportions:
I, quite literally, couldn't agree more.
It's not just that he's so often out, but more that he regards himself as a great singer. I remember listening to a concert on Radio 2 many years ago (whilst painting the spare bedroom of our flat in Whitstable - the memory is oh so vivid) and wondering what in God's name was going on. It was awful.
Ouch...
...Does he regard himself as a great singer though? I seem to remember reading in his autobiography that he was pretty aware of his limitations. Despite having heard it a thousand times, that last note on "Say Hello, Wave Goodbye" always gets me worried - will he manage to hit it??!?
More on this subject
I don't know if he regards himself as a good singer; however, I do recall a radio interview a few years ago where he told of how he used to be completely ignorant musically, had no idea what a key was, etc. He went on to say he now had some understanding of such technicalities, the clear implication being that his out-of-tuneness on the Soft Cell stuff was down to this ignorance, and not to an inherent inability to pitch a note - and that he was now sorted on that front. I know he re-recorded the vocal on Tainted Love, and while it sounds a bit less shaky, he's still as flat as a pancake. I felt a bit sorry for him, to be honest.
And even more on this subject....
I was party to Mr Almonds larynx last night, as Jool Hollands R'n'b orchestra squeezed (and I mean squeezed) into B'hams Jam House for a show and a half. I am already recorded as being shockingly unaware of just how good "that annoying fella off the telly" (TM) is live, having seen him/them at the NIA in December, but this was the dogs bollox, with the entire band perched on a tiny stage, with a rammed dancefloor of about 200 punters,another 50 or so in the bar and on the restaurant balcony bit. And Mr Almond reprised his guest spot from the december tour, performing 3 songs and assisting in the encores. He has a very very powerful voice and age (and probably training) has straightened out many of his flat notes, leaving enough endearingly behind to remind you why you liked him in the first place. Like, if totally unlike, Beth Orton, it is the flaws that are his strength. Easily the 3rd best singer of the night, nobody else touching the wonder that is Ruby Turner, who should be as feted here as is Aretha stateside. And Rico Rodrigues, who can't-sing fantastically, if only allowed one song last night.
Glad Ruby Turner's still at it
I saw her with about 12 other people in the audience at Dingwall's 20-odd years ago and she was great - the best covers "Stay With Me" and "I'd Rather Be Blind" that I've ever heard, without a doubt. But has she stuck to her guns or bent to the will of market forces and gone all "R&B" on us now?
I've seen Marc Almond live too, and I must admit that he was nowhere near as dreadful as I'd been expecting. In many respects, he's not really a bad singer at all, you're right. He's actually a very good interpreter, in that he can deliver a lyric - now pretty much a lost art - as well as anyone, but he's such an iffy pitcher that the resulting sound often isn't pleasant to listen to at all.
No bloody r'n'b (new meaning) at all
Blues,and soul, with a hefty gospel hue.
Wonderful, and with a physique to project into space from. It may sound insulting to call her an archetypal blues mama, but jeez, she packs one hell of a packet. Sorry this is an annoying telly clip....:
(Amy who?)
And here's a live one
And I've now listened to the above clip and OH MY GOD
These are not just bum notes, but, as Mrs Elliott has just said, entire new chords and scales of wrongness.
I've even now been put off ever wanting to listen to Anthony and his Johnsons. Could he not hear the badness? Surely even a devoted fan would take Mr Almond aside and say something?
Mariah Carey
She can hit the notes but in my estimation she can't sing.
Not really my point
I'm with you in general: I can't stand Mariah Carey, and I'd go as far as to say I'd rather listen to any of the singers I listed originally than to her. That said, surely anyone who can both hit the notes and make themselves heard (and Ms Carey can clearly do both), can sing, by definition - and then it's more a question of taste (the singer's, as well as our own!). For what it's worth, my original post is about "singers" who, quite literally, can't sing, in other words fall flat every time and/or have such weak voices that they can't carry a tune anywhere.
Marc Almond, on the other hand - spot on, Archie! Even though I think he has something, he sure as hell can't sing worth a damn.
OK
Graham Sutton from Bark Psychosis. Great music, bad singing.
Oh and Vini Reilly really should just stick to guitar
Vini Reilly
The Durutti Column are my all time favourite band but even I agree Vini can't sing and so does he:
Quote from interview:
"I can't sing for toffee but I really enjoy singing".
She hits all the right notes
- but not necessarily in the right order.
Mariah Carey
I heard Peter Alan on Radio 5 come out with a great way of describing singing like hers "Urban Yodeling" - for me that sums it up !
Bob Dylan
- he can't sing, y'know! :-)
Wayne Coyne of The Flaming Lips
I like his voice. It cracks in a very nice way. He can carry a tune.
Shaky but moving
There's a vulnerability about the weakness of his singing which makes you root for him. It seems to fit with the philosophy of the band and the songs.
Obvious but true
Ian Brown, Tim Burgess, Bobby Gillespie.
great shite
great shite singers
dylan
lou reed
john lydon
morrissey
shaun ryder
ian curtis
tom waits
robert wyatt
siouxsie
tricky
shite shite singers
joe strummer
barney sumner
ian brown
neil tennant
la roux (if that brats perofrmance is owt to go by)
him out of bloc party
Adds Iggy Pop...
...to the first list
...
...
It's the second category I'm interested in!
Good calls (except for Neil Tennant, see above). And I couldn't agree more about Kele out of Bloc Party. He's catastrophically awful, bringing to mind a puppy who's just got his tail caught in a car door. I saw them live once, and was astounded not only by his ineptitude, but also by the drummer, who quite literally couldn't keep time.
Strummer's
in the wrong list. Otherwise good.
King Monkey
Ian Brown has been known to miss the odd note.
But being a great pop/rock vocalist is about much more than having a great voice.
Thank You
I always thought he sang flat on record but neverthless went to see him play live. He absolutely murdered both the Stone Roses' and his own solo material. It was like the Emperor's New Clothes - it would only have taken one brave sould to shout out "this bloke can't sing" and everyone else would have said "Oh yeah! He can't hold a note." and walked out. I used to think that the Stone Roses' first album was badly produced, but John Leckie must be some sort of genius to make Brown sound that mediocre.
Hit and miss
He seems to be a bit hit and miss, from terrible to ok.
But the Stone Roses first album is still the record I have listened to the most, and I still have not tired of it.
Robyn Hitchcock
I've tried,I really have.
Bernard Sumner
Couldn't carry a tune in a bucket
MANCS CAN'T SING
Has there ever been a good singer from Manchester? From Bernard Sumner (dull, flat, dull) all the way back to Graham Nash (shrill, sharp, shrill).
Er...
Steven Patrick Morrissey
Allan Clarke
Hucknall
Dave Brock..
..out of Hawkwind. Flat as.
Don't see them mentioned round these parts very much.
Ian Dury
But he more than made up for it.
two non-divas
Will Oldham, aka Bonnie "Prince" Billy, and Bill Callahan of Smog. Granted, it would kind of defeat their whole point if they really could sing, but seriously, these guys can't even seem to control their mumbling very well. For an examle of someone who can, lok no further than Leonard Cohen.
Simon Le Bloody Bon
No saving graces either.
DAVID LEE ROTH, ANYONE?
The urban legend here is that when they were unsigned, garage band nobodies trying to make it in L.A., Roth owned a bunch of sound equipment and agreed to allow the band to use it, but on the condition that he be lead singer.
Dave Gahan...
has never brought much to the Depeche Mode table, has he? A serviceable drone that works well on a song like Personal Jesus, but not much else.
Johnny Cash
not a good songwriter either
Whoa! Them's fightin'
Whoa! Them's fightin' words!
Sadly true.......
Great, if limited, voice, but the most pedestrian sense of metre ever. I suggset that Mr Rubin had to give very very firm instruction as to where to place the emphasis. (And I love those LPs)
Witness this travesty:
"Singers who can't sing"
Has there ever been a voice worse than that of Willie Nelson? Don't give me the shite about the "Timbre","Emotive qualities" etc...Sorry mate,You sound just like a Wino with Laryngitis...
Whoa!
He sounds nothing like Tom Waits.
Singing well's not really the point...
To me, music is all about feel. I'm not that bothered if somebody can sing especially well if the combination of their voice and the music conveys some atmosphere and emotion.
I'm a big fan of industrial music, but I'd never be so stupid as to say that groups like Front Line Assembly, Ministry or Type O Negative feature good singers. However, they really make you feel something, however assisted by distortion and electronics they may be. The same applies to, say, Slipknot: Corey Taylor is probably unaware what a musical key actually is, but if you want the sort of rock vocals that make you think the walls are about to collapse around you, he's your man.
The already-mentioned Mariah Carey might be a technically perfect singer with an impressive range, but she's more bland than Queen Bland of Blandonia and makes me feel nothing but nausea at the fact that she sells millions while groups I love sell to a few blokes in a pub. Boo, Mariah Carey! Boo, I say!
Mr Lovegrove... Agreed.My
Mr Lovegrove...
Agreed.My fave artist was the recently late,great John Martyn who on occassion sounded as though he had half a pound of Butter in each cheek whilst warbling.This did little to detract from the over all sound and feel of the music.
There are,however those who think that by cramming as many notes into a three minute pop song a'la Carey,Lewis,Dion ad infinatum gets you kudos as a great singer.Sadly the music buying public seem to agree with them and their producers...A pox on them,I say!
Billy Vanilli
It seems to be that someone is yet to mention Billy Corgan. So there. This didn´t stop me from playing his music endlessly, but then I was in my late teens when Smashing Pumpkins smashed the most pumpkins around the time of Mellon Collie & The Infinite Sadness. But that high whine trying to express anger - I think - jeez. Sounds like a cat with the balls cut of more than a rat in a cage.
It's funny
I'd class Strummer, Bernard Sumner, Johnny Cash, Iggy Pop and Ian Dury as some of my most favourite vocalists ever.
But that's the point I guess, they're not singers in the 'hit the notes' sense. But I'd rather them than a million X-Factor/American Idol/Theatre School Brats note perfect performers.
Meanwhile: what did/do people see in Ms Wener of Sleeper? I actually like her voice, but she is Hamster Woman.
The shitest thing about Britpop (and there were many)...
was the tendency of singers to do that coquettish fluttering of the eyelids. Louise Sleeper is doing it in the above clip. AAARRGH! I couldn't - and can't - stand it!
Mick Jagger
He's sounded bored since about 1978 and knackered since about 1990.
How did we get...
...this far down the thread without mentioning Bryan 'Larry the Lamb' Ferry?
More Shite singers....
Here we go...In no particular order...
Lou Reed
Gary Numan
Neil Young
Bob Dylan
Geddy Lee
Bjork
Mark Knopfler
Leonard Cohen to name but a few...Great ARTISTS but can hardly hold a tune for toffee...
Pass the ear defenders......
'er out of The Cranberries - Dolores O'Riordan? Sounds like an angle-grinder on helium. And 'im out of Bellowhead. A room full of some of the best musicians to grace the planet and an apology of a singer.......
At the risk of starting another fight ....
... Stephen Patrick Morrissey.
One word - vaudeville.
Also, as I'm on a roll ... Damon Albarn (whether or not adopting fake mockney accent).
Two for you...
Estelle (based on the Glastonbury performance of "American Boy" where she was a quarter-tone flat the whole way through)
The guy from The Offspring (Dexter something?) - nasal, grating and just that little bit flat. Surely the most annoying voice in rock
Better than Aretha
My daughter was trying to explain to me that Estelle must be better than Aretha Franklin. It's not that I've failed as a rock dad: she's 12. See?
I hope she's been grounded for 6 months...
that seems like the only reasonable punishment! ;)
Shane McGowan, God love 'im
I think Rum, Sodomy and the Lash is probably one of my favourite albums ever, but Shane can't really *sing* can he. On "The Old Main Drag", he's pretty much flat throughout the whole song. But, what a song, what a performance. What a shame he's pissed his talent so far up the wall that he can barely speak these days, let alone sing.
Totally agree with Ian Brown and Bobby Gillespie. Useless.
How about Kylie? She's effing terrible as well! The word "helium" just isn't strong enough.
Two out of three ain't bad
The instigator of this thread (sorry, I can't be bothered scrolling back up to see who it was) got two of my biggest personal bugbears right from the off - Louise Weiner and the execrable Conor Deasy. Can't agree about Wayne Coyne, though. And Gram Parsons? Have you ever thought of having them syringed, sir? Scarcely have two voices sounded so divine together as Emmylou and Gram's (not just in the studio - I've heard live recordings and impromptu radio performances that bear this out).
Anyway, now that's off my chest, can I suggest another culprit? The weakest voice in all metal, a very unforgiving genre when it comes to technical shortcomings.
Bear with me
Technical aptitude is not what's important here. What is important is the ability to connect with an audience; the skill of evoking an emotional reaction, regardless of the flaws. It's why this, although being quite obviously unconvincing on most levels, is one of the greatest special effects ever created because you feel for him, no matter how shit it looks:
I think singing's like that. It's not scientific. It's how it makes you feel.
Rick Wakeman...
... has been using Ashley Holt in his band on and off since the Journey To The Centre Of The Earth days. Which is nice.
christ on a bike
that is SO bad. Like a rehearsal for parents evening at deaf school.
Nick Cave ...
Nick Cave for heaven's sake! Nick Cave ...
NickCaveNickCaveNickCave.
Jessica Simpson..
check out her diabolical but mercifully short version of Wobby's Angels on Letterman.
That is…
… the epitome of Vic Reeves' club-style singing.
And have you noticed how few of these singers - and it was all over American Idol last night, too - can resist sticking an 'H' in front of any word they can? “I'm loving hangels instead”.
Or perhaps a lot of them really are singing about someone called Hugh…
Has anyone yet mentioned Stuart Staples?
The "original" template for Vic Reeves' club singer, surely. Yet inescapably brilliant
h
Probably a breath control problem making them put an h in places were it doesn't belong.
Blimey!
At this rate much of my favourite music will end up being derided and mocked, not including Jessica Simpson.
Personally I favour a lot of supposed non proper singers. Even Ian Brown and Bernard Sumner - at least on their good records, though they are not good singers, their best work sounds right to me. It's all about expression and what suits the recording. It's modernism ain't it? Rock 'n' roll is after all a primitive, raw, rough sort of music, which is a lot of it's appeal. Hearing 'Breakdown' by The Buzzcocks last night on Mark Radcliffe's show made me think, how inept and crude, yet how brilliant and effective.
I agree about Louise Wener though. Mannered and affected posing. Awful. And The Thrills. Weedy and inadequate.
I'd add Tony Hadley. Not sure about Phil Oakey at times either, don't know if he quite gets away with it.
Neil Young
-I'd like to like him but can't get past the voice.
Scott Walker's voice is often quite difficult on his later stuff, yet I find it really engaging.
Have we done Tony Hadley yet?
..better known as the Foghorn Leghorn of Islington:
"Cos you are Gold, son....I say Gold"
And as we're onto the 'boy bands' may I also suggest a lozenge and a nasal spray for Stephen Gately out of Boyzone.
Good call...
Hadley sounded like a lighthouse's fog horn. And he had one of those stupid pencil-thin microphones.
Oh yeah...
..that flippin' microphone. I can still see him in his shiny blue suit and flick haircut with his expression set at ham actor levels of painful emotional rigor mortis whilst bellowing out words like a constipated newspaper hawker.
What about
"Honking" Ronan Keating?
Phil Lesh bless his little cotton soocks
The grateful dead Bass player, now with his own group Phil Lesh and Friends.
I love the music and what he is all about, but when it comes to singing hold on to your hats!
I cannot believe that on the Lesh websites there are regular debates about his singing abilities.
Debate over he cant, do not use the words Lesh and singing in the same sentence ever again.
Sorry Phil
Jonathan Richman
You can have a crap or annoying voice but still be able to sing and delight an audience
Very few cover versions by infinitely more talented stylists match the quality of Bob Dylan's weedy, gravelly originals.
And someone like Jonathan Richman is so unique that it's pointless anyone trying to cover his songs, not that so many would probably want to
But with his nasal whiney voice he is a consumate entertainer.
No gravel, thanks
My personal aversion is to singers who seem to equate 'gravelliness' with 'authentic sincerity'. This means I've never been able to take the likes of Bruce Springsteen, Rod Stewart or their female counterparts seriously. To refute the whole he's-pouring-his-heart-into-the-lyric argument, I would refer you to Joe (Auf Wiedersehen Pet) Fagin's impassioned rendition of Milk Has Got a Lotta Bottle.
Basically, the rawk rasp is just an affectation. Give me the pure and untutored voice of Robert Wyatt any day.
An easy target but...
this always makes me laugh
Sounds like
BjÖrk to me...Actually, there's another one for the list
The chap from British Sea Power
I've tried believe me, but no amount of interesting lyrics and good tunes can get me past that voice. Euch!
I don't mind gravel
unless the awful sound of expectoration is included: Joe Fagan is a hideously good example often, I fear, as is Chris Farlowe and many a female vocalist trying to inject earthy soulful sound into a song. Sadly it is all but phlegm. Can't think of an example off the top of my head but there are numerous offenders.
Phlegm
Richard Butler of the Psychedelic Furs. None phlegmier.
This is slightly off topic but still
The singer from Berlin was interviewed about "Take My Breath Away". She said that she did the first take with her voice wobbling up and down on the "Away" part. George Moroder (the producer) told her in not up for discussion terms that she did it wrong and that she should sing it flat. She wasn't happy so they did two versions, one with gymnastics and one flat. She eventually agreed it was better flat. And it went on to be a monster hit.
Jessica Simpson (I think) X years later did a cover version. She got it wrong and did the gymnastics on "Away". Her version is of course worthless.
George Moroder? Who he? Just
George Moroder? Who he? Just thought of another classic example - Badly Drawn Boy! Sounds half decent on record but is truly appalling live - agree on bjork too - take away her production and she's just a one note warbler - i can't stick these sub-billie holliday wannabes either - i blame beth gibbons myself - also that 'folk croak' favoured by everyone Sinead O'Connor to Dolores O'Riordon to Beth Orton to Kate Nash - you're never gonna be kate rusby girls so get over it.
Sinead a croaker?
Where? When? No chance.
Giorgio Moroder: producer of, amongst others, Donna Summer and Phil Oakey, "I feel love" and "Together in Electric Dreams" respectively. Also wrote soundtrack for Midnight Express
I think
he may be referring to the spelling of Herr M. :-)
Much as I love Eels
I must admit E is not blessed with a particularly fine set of pipes. Add him to the "making a little go a long way" list.
I really don't understand
I mean, in what way is this not good singing?
Well honestly
it's not very "good" - his voice is weak, wheezy and mumbly. He can carry a tune but the overall sound is not going to win any prizes for technique.
HOWEVER - and this is the important bit - I think E is a perfect example of The Amorous Hum's second category below: a weak voice, but he makes up for it with great expression and delivery, and imbues all his songs with an emotional punch that many "better" singers would struggle to achieve.
I f***ing LOVE Eels, and could listen to E for hours, but he's not a great singer. See also Neil Tennant, Morrissey and Nick Cave, as discussed by others above.
My point being
Technique isn't the point. Expression, delivery, emotional punch? File under good singing. I don't know why we have to apologise by saying "they're not great technically, but..."
It seems we've got 3 categories
Singers who are just rubbish - example Louise Wener
Singers who don't have great voices but can, by their emotional delivery etc, still deliver a great song - to which I'd like to add Stuart Murdoch of Belle and Sebastian
Singers who can technically sing but who are just bland and boring - step forward Carey, Houston, Dion etc
FLAMIN' 'ECK, FRIENDS, CAN ANYONE SING THEN?!?!
It seems to me we've slagged off just about every frontman or woman, major, minor or in between, and decided between us that actually, no one can sing! Who can then? Go here for the new post: http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/singers-who-really-can-sing
Joey Ramone
But the lack of singing ability adds quite a bt of heart to the Ramones doing "Baby I Love you", doesn't it?
Also:
Ce Ce Peniston - on "Finally" she's ever so slightly out of tune - I can't bear the record because of that.
Crystal Waters - although perhaps her vocals add "charm" to Gypsy Woman.
An old joke
Bazzy's comment about Phil Lesh reminds me of that old joke, What has fifty nine and a half fingers and can't sing - the Grateful Dead.
Can Thom Yorke sing?
His voice is just about okay in my opinion. Technically is he any good?
He can really soar sometimes
check the end of Exit Music (For A Film) for proof, and his "quiet voice" in general is very good (see also Nude, How to disappear..., etc.) but he can also mewl and caterwaul like a wounded moggie on the rockier numbers. Bit of an acquired taste, overall.
Hmm...
Yes
but then again..
no
Radiohead
I mean really. Thom Yorke. Christ. Boy. Can. Sing. Fact.
Wot no Bon Scott?
Awful singer but terrific frontman. Gives hope to the rest of us who rasp away when singing along.
Aw, now c'mon
He's one of the best white blues wailers ever
this was truly painful
this was truly painful
From the same show
I thought this was even worse:
Chrissie Hynde.
No question! Warbling tunelessness at it's worst.
Also, much as I love a lot of Pink Floyd, Roger Waters is a shocker at the mike.
My wife hates Donald Fagin. Personally, I think he's got a great voice.
Excuse me for swearing, but
are you f***cking joking? Have you got ears? Or a soul?
..
..
I'm with your wife
...er if you see what i mean.
Meat Puppets
Recently heard their album Meat Puppets II due to the Nirvana link - God, I mean I like it, but you can't half hear why they didn't break through.
Not to speak ill of the dead and all but...
How about ...
the guitarist in The White Stripes?
I surely can't be..
..the first to nominate the mighty David Gedge?
singers who really can't sing
Dare I suggest that Rock God Bono (or Bongo as Don Van Vliet referred to him as)can't hold a tune live? Witness most recent live performances on television of latest "single" Sexy Boots - the man can't hold a tune! See further proof also in his performance at Obama's inauguration of In The Name of Love - Jesus - it's awful....
Louise Wener...
...is now a novelist. I've read and enjoyed a couple of her books.
Thank you Azeem...
I saw Bloc Party about four years ago and I was truly gobsmacked by the drummer's ineptitude. A couple of months later they played on Loose Ends (Radio 4) and I can honestly say that the drummer produced the worst performace I've ever heard from a 'professional' musician. I'm sure you're right about the singer but I'm afraid I can't remember him at all.
That drummer
You can tell he's the boss of the band, too, as almost all their songs start and end with him. (Hmm, has their been a thread looking into the obviously dominant members of bands?).
I also met him once, 'cos they guest DJed with me at an NME event very early in their careers. Myself and my fellow DJ had got the crowd nicely warmed up when said drummer announced to me, "yeah, we'll get the crowd going now." He proceeded to play some completely obscure remixes which the crowd was completely indifferent to, before accepting defeat and playing the populist trash we'd been playing.
I'd imagine
that every song starting and ending with drums is probably more likely to come about from the rest of the band writing/recording all the songs with a drum machine/click track, then replacing it with said fella's "drumming" at at later date.
I also tend to see it as shorthand for "we couldn't be bothered / imaginative enough to write a proper start or finish to the song".
not my experience -
as a former drummer all the songs we did that started with drums tended to be the result of me playing stuff and the guitar and bass writing their parts to my rhythms.
(In case that sounds too defensive - they were invariably our worst songs)
Equivalent to Godwin's Law?
Godwin's Law states that, in any internet discussion, someone will eventually mention Hitler. It's usually a sign that the discussion has run its course. Could there be something to cover the phenomenon whereby, if I start a thread like this, looking for examples of uniquely poor singers, sooner or later just about every singer will be mentioned, including some of my favourites. Thus we've had Chrissie Hynde, Bjork, Beth Orton and Bob Dylan; and Bon Scott, who isn't a favourite of mine, but who I certainly think was a great rock singer.
I'm not complaining; isn't that the way it always goes? If there's a thread about most overrated films, someone will mention Sex Lies and Videotape (my favourite film ever). I find it all quite amusing...
Sex Lies and Videotape
What's so great about it? Nothing happens.
Am I bovvered?
Not in the least. I had noticed that "nothing happens", strangely enough; hard not to when you've watched a film half a dozen times. I love it because it's superbly written, superbly acted (and yes, I'm including Andie MacDowell in that) by four actors, none of whom have given better performances since; and it's so tight - not a line or gesture wasted. It repays repeat viewings.
I love Whit Stilman's first film, Metropolitan, for much the same reasons - and even less "happens" in that!
Metropolitan
I like Metropolitan and I like the fact that it undercuts its own drama (within about ten minutes they realise the guy is not stinking rich like them and they just simply don't care). A lot is happening under the surface such as fear of the future etc. Sex, Lies on the other hand doesn't seem to have much of an undertow.
Elvis and Bobby
Elvis C. Surely no-one fits the "thinks he's great but actually..." thing. And the thing is - of course - he is great, seminal even. Of course his records are amongst my favourites. Of course, "Man out of Time" is timelessly brilliant and yet a precisely local vivisection of 80s Britain. But given the debate about timbre and/or technique - then surely both are subject to scrutiny in EC's work. Take a song like "Almost Blue". Desperately poignant -yet talk about over-reach on the upper reaches. You with me?
And oh dear, you've got me started now. Bobby Bland. Heartbreaking, soulful. Of course, "Yolanda", "This time I'm gone for good", "Ain't no love in the Heart of City" - desert island contenders one and all. But - every now and then - he does this "Yaaww Lord" thing that sounds like the worst bout of Phlegm clearance since the Walloons last engaged in ethnic cleansing. Listen to his "It's not the spotlight". A brilliant version - raw, emotive but compare and contrast wth Rod Stewart's take. Over-produced perhaps and from a time that caught our Rod on the cusp of transformation from immensely likeable to its polar opposite - but soulful, heart-rending. And no Phlegm clearance
The prosecution rests, m'lud
Bobby Bland?? I realise you're not saying Bobby Bland can't sing, but still, to see such a great singer even mentioned in dispatches illustrates the point I was making above. Even Elvis Costello, whom I don't particularly like, doesn't belong in this thread - in my opinion, of course.
Nobody's mentioned that
Nobody's mentioned that ghastly singer from Muse yet. Also a sub-category here possibly: people who, having started "singing", don't know when to shut up. Also the guy from Simple Minds comes to mind.
I'd add
Ian Hunter, in a dylanesque kind of way.
How's about singers who can't hit high notes live?
I'd give you Chris Coldplay and Brandon Killers, very much in the Simon Le Bon mode.
Another 'I can't believe no one has mentioned' post
Rufus Wainwright. Great songs but, by God, they'd be better sung by just about anyone else.
145 odd replies and not one mention of
Mark E. Smith.
He really shouldn't try
But I love 'em.
Weller
Could/Can be great (In the City's spirit, That's Entertainment's restraint, Sunflower's soulful blast) but he seems to not be content with this and wants to be a 'proper' soul singer. To my ears, though, he often lapsed into tunelessness, typified by his performance (and that of his then missus DC Lee) on The Style Council's It Didn't Matter. Painful.
Mike Love on "Surfin' Safari"
The sound of a voice breaking over a period of two minutes. It sounds like they dragged in some spotty paperboy off the street.
Julian Cope
Just read the hugely entertaining "Head On" by Julian Cope and felt moved to play a couple of Teardrops compilations.
His singing is excruciating at times. Bonkers records though.
Good isn't it?
Can't remember if it's in Head On or the next one, but I particularly like the bit where he sets about educating a young listener in the joys of Scott Walker, when the the student says 'this is crap' and Julian says something to the effect of 'yeah - you're right actually' - thus undoing a major career influence.
Or did I misremember it, as seems to be the case these days?
Another garrotted parrot
Who is the guy who 'sings' for the Neutral Milk Hotel? Whilst the 'In The Aeroplane Over The Sea' album is full of interesting songs, his voice is like chainsawing through titanium...(that's what you call a forced simile, I believe).
Also Victoria Williams. There was a benefit album where celebrity friends sang her songs to raise money for her medical bills, it was great. Proves she writes good songs. Then you go out and buy some of her own recordings. Oh dear, oh dear.
Robert Smith...
...but I think we've established that it doesn't matter.
And my rule of thumb about great singers is that you can't sing along with the buggers. Just try it with Al Green or Frank Sinatra. Can't be done.
Devoto
There can never have been a higher coefficient of anti-singing versus listening pleasure.
John Lydon
I was listening to the multi-tracks of Pretty Vacant this morning and, if you take Lydons vocal in isolation, it really is a remarkable performance.
Not a trained voice obviously but there's some incredible stylings going on in there!
True
There was a compelling intensity about his vocals. What would The Sex Pistols amount to without his contribution? Not much. Listening to Hawkwind the other day I noticed a similarity in the singing. I think he was a fan?
So where exactly
might one locate multi-tracks of the Sex Pistols? Are you in a position fortunate enough to allow you access to the actual tapes, of have they floated on out into the net-ether the way Superstition / Heard it through the grapevine... etc. did last year?