Maybe it's because we are essentially a visual culture nowadays. Sinatra and Dean Martin are cool not because they were great artists but because they look the epitome of a certain brand of cool. Matt Monro, on the other hand, was a former bus conductor if I recall.

would be my guess. The Americans had years on us in terms of the crooning style and the songs for it.

...is cool, in my opinion, where his pipes are concerned, anyway. Every bit as good a singer as Bennett or Sinatra. Mark Radcliffe described him as having 'Honeyed tones'.

out with my dates here (feel free to tell me) but the American singers were all stars pre-rock n roll, whereas the Brits all came along later and were carving out chart careers in direct competition to Elvis, Beatles, Stones, etc.

Difficult to appear cool under those circumstances.

but there's the rep these guys had. In the early 80's as an undergrad at UCLA my girlfriend and I saw, in the same week, X, The Cramps and Frank Sinatra (sadly not on the same bill). Frank, we paid a stupid amount of money to see, half for the kitsch value and half just to tap into the one thing our parents were ever cool about. That whole ring-a-ding time they had decades earlier.

By the way, Andy Williams and Bing Crosby (monsters though they are) never had an ounce of cool about them.

...Mel Torme is cooler than the lot.

Can someone explain to me what this thread is about? I genuinely don't understand this 'cool' thing.

Monro, Humperdinck and Tom Jones were fine singers; had good material (if not the best) and sold bucketloads.

Are you all saying that being 'in' or 'out' is down to the cut of their suit or the brand of cigarettes rather than their voice or the way they interpret the material?

What is cool?

I'm saying that Sinatra and his ilk are perceived to be cool, whereas Monro etc are not.

I agree with you.

Is when someone instructs me to "Discuss".
Can we stop that habit please?

having an edge to their character. Both were rumoured to have mafia connections, both were seen as hard drinking womanisers, both were canny in their choice of movie role. Tony Bennett, notwithstanding his 1970's problems, is pure class.

Anthony Newley, I'd suggest, was too oddball; Engelbert proved you can't be cool with a soppy name; and Monro should have been cool but spoiled it by singing in the Eurovision Song Contest. Personally, I'd forgive him just about anything simply for his version of "Born Free."

King of the crooners - a voice like someone copulating with your ears

maybe you have to be of a certain age to appreciate what Sinatra etc were doing. As a lad, my money went on Yes, King Crimson, etc and I woudn't have dreamt of letting "oldie" music on the stereo. Now I'm happy to enjoy some Sinatra albums, hell, I've even got a nice one from Perry Como (and try telling that to your 15-year-old self !).

And as regards coolness, well that ceases to be important at some point, doesn't it? So I'll play visitors Miles, Steely Dan, Sinatra, Abba, Stravinski, without even thinking about cool.

Still don't like Engelbert though.
And he kept Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields off number one. Bastard.

Sinatra was (is) the epitome of cool,just watch some of his TV Specials from the 60s,his live performances are faultless,done with attitude and with bands like Count Basie,Gordon Jenkins,Nelson Riddle and even Quincy Jones,but its a matter of taste either you get it or you dont..
I have had the same discussion about Bob Dylan..

Well it's been a key part of pop and showbiz as long as I can remember. We know what it is don't we? Sex appeal, charisma (key ingredient you either have or don't, obviously) - a contrived image in looks, personality and performing style, I would suggest. Of course without quality of product it won't last. And it's also dependent on the act being well managed and controlled to maintain mystery and enigma, easier to do then than now. Sinatra is the only crooner I think of as really cool - for above reasons, a bit of a pioneer of cool image really. Of course you can rate a record regardless of whether it's cool. But I do think we're all susceptible to this more than we like to admit. Then again with age we do probably care less. US acts tend to gain a bit of cool through perceived exotic remoteness I would say.

The Cousins have got the pesky little things sussed and we haven't got a clue. Simple as that. Over there they "know from a bowtie", keeping it simple and to the point, while our lads will insist on those absurd velvetene sub-Byronic efforts that instead of "the Copa" or "Caesar's Palace" unequivocally shout out "Bernard Manning's World Famous Embassy Club".

If we do a side-by-side with these two gents - singing the same song, in the same era, in the same uniform - we find that this is achingly cool:

and this is equally achingly not:

This hypothesis may also explain Andy Williams's perceived lack of coolness, as mentioned above: rather than establishing his cool creds with some suave 'n' silky bowtie action, he opted for a V-necked "home-lovin' man" approach - not so much cool as warm and cosy.

I always thought that Bobby Darin was cooler than all of the Rat Pack put together. He could do rock 'n' roll too.

Sinatra, Martin et al weren't remotely cool, they've just had coolness thrust upon them subsequently. Cheesy Light Programme wallahs like David Jacobs would always use them as a stick to beat Beatles, Stones etc with...proper music, you see.

On the other hand, Sinatra the movie star was always cool - Tony Rome, Oceans 11, Guys and Dolls...