A proper shepherd's pie is made with hogget or mutton. No tomato, but a little carrot is a good thing in either. And no, cottage and shepherd's is never interchangeable. Cheese? Hmmm. Maybe. I'd rather just make the mash buttery, though.

I have been known to produce a hybrid, with 50:50 lamb and beef mince.

Carrot is a given, in small dice, and celery is also a nice addition. My gravy does tend to be heavily tomato'd, I have to say. And I will often add a smidgeon of chilli to the meat.

Potato is - invariably - heavily laced with cheese.

By the time you've done all this it feels a bit wrong to call it either a Shepherd or a Cottage - but it is a damn fine pie, whatever it is.

Cheese on cottage pie is acceptable on Shepherd's pie is wrong. Maybe it's down to the higher fat content of lamb. Duck parmentier is amazing...*salivates at the memory*

there's no finer comfort food than shepherd's pie or cottage pie.

I always include mushrooms, carrots and onion with either French beans, petits pois or just your common garden pea for a bit of colour.

I'm not going to be drawn into the beef vs. lamb debate except to say in these health-conscious times lamb is usually fattier but cheap minced beef is equally to be avoided.

And yes, the cheese is obligatory though those on a diet could simply brush the potato's jagged peaks with milk to give a more golden colour.

For a bit of variation I do an Italian version with lamb, tomatoes and a pinch of Italian seasoning with oregano, or for a "nose damper" a dusting of ground chilli for extra warmth.

I agree, as a winter comfort dish, both are hard to beat. Sometimes I add baked beans as a side dish, I know this cheapens the meal, but it's really tasty. As I'm not really a cheese fan, I'm not one for cheesey mash, but I can see the attraction of . One should never use Smash mix on either dish, as I fear was the case when served the dish at Primary School.

both Wikipedia and Delia (Wikidelia?) seem to allow both beef and lamb in both variations but I wouldn't presume as much nearly coming to blows on the subject previously. Wikipedia mentions the Cumberland pie which is covered in breadcrumbs and the Americans appear to do a variation of beef and sweetcorn.

Not sure about the baked beans, David, but cheesy beans or beans and corned beef were a popular lunchtime snack with my West Midlands colleagues years ago (no, not cheesy peas Vic and Bob fans!)

... of the animals meat made to use the pie to the cottage - hence those close make up the Cottage Pie, and those way in the fields are for the Shepherd's Pie?

I tend to use a kind of bolognesey sauce for my meat base, and I'll use pasta instead of potatoes. Also, I'll usually add parmesan after cooking, rather than cheddar before. Any other regional deviations?

Not that long ago I seem to remember a recipe for shepherd's chips, which involved frying some chips, arranging them in a bowl, covering them in mince, topping with cheese and then bunging in the oven. When all was bubbly and nice, it could be turned out onto a plate.

Tada! Shepherd's Chips, although going by the fat content, perhaps Shepherds' Chips would be a better name.

I love cottage pie and shepherd's pie.

My cottage pie (never shepherd's pie, my ex doesn't like lamb) never features carrot. Always tomatoes. Although I have a bit of a problem with the potato topping because I'm still living in a kosher household. This means I have to make non-dairy mashed potato.

So, I currently use a mixture of potato water, vegetable stock and olive oil to make the mash (can't stand any of the non-dairy butter substitutes). It's not quite right, hence I don't make cottage pie very often.

When I am living in my own place, I shall be making proper cottage & shepherd's pie frequently. And I shall bathe in ham. *daydreams happily*

would be horrified at us, what a bunch of carnivores we are. I love a good Creutzfeld-Jacob Pie myself, with the topping toasted a nice brown colour due to a sprinkling of finely grated very mature Cheddar for the final 15 minute oven blast at Fukushima settings.

Morrisey will have to deal with it Vulpes! I guess he eats his own vegetarian version of Shepherd's Pie, which I'm sure is tasty enough.
Following on from my French evening, Shepherd's Pie evening maybe my next project, when I move into new rented abode before Christmas. Given up on mortgage for the time being, but that's another thread!
Guess I would have to cook Shepherd and Cottage Pies to appease guests!

I will always remember the day I returned back to England after two years traveling the world. I walked through my parents' front door and my mum's first words were "I've made you a shepherd's pie". Then I knew I was home.

Personally I think pretty much all variations are acceptable, though my mum's is best - I think her secret ingredient might be a tin of baked beans, which sounds a bit naff but gives the meat a pleasingly tangy gravy. I say yes to cheese, and yes to burnt bits of potato on top too.

I once made a chile con carne pie which worked really well. I'm also prone to lacing the mash with freshly chopped chilli, though this appears to be frowned upon by everyone but me and once caused a severe falling out with a flatmate.

I'm set to cook tomorrow night for around 6 friends. Was all of a doo-dah about what to prepare - this thread has sorted it all out. I'm in Berlin and suspect my German dinner guests might rather like the hefty meat/potato combo.

What are your recommendations for side dishes? A pan of peas and carrots, maybe?

The pie has to be put under the grill for a few minutes at the end to ensure the surface is crisped and brown. Must be beef and rtomato,carrots and onions are all fine ingredients to be mixed into said pie. It should be served with home made chips and garden peas. Think I might do one tomorrow!!

this thread is almost tantamount to internet porn. For the love of God please stop!!

Cottage only here. Can't abide lamb myself. As discussed, tomatoes, onion, carrot, celery, cheesy mash. My secret ingredient is a large teaspoon of French whole grain mustard stirred in at the last minute. You get the odd surprise mini explosion of Gallic cheer in each forkfull. Ideally served with steamed sprouts.

Reminds me of another of our winter faves- butcher's sausages, mash, steamed Savoy cabbage with lots of ground black pepper, onion gravy. With a glass of sturdy red. Mmmmm.

In our house it can be with either beef or lamb; and with or without tomato in the sauce. Sometimed bung in a can of haricot beans. On top of the mash we have choppped leeks softened in butter and then more butter so the topping goes all cripsy. The only fixed rule is that there simply must be pickled red cabbage, mint sauce and HP sauce on the table. Absolute staple. Have it every week.

or at least, its second cousin, is on the menu at Foxy Towers tonight. Haddock baked in the oven, flaked into rice & peas with carrots and onions added at the last minute, having been baked separately and more vigorously to caramelise them a little.

The nosh will be accompanied by a nice cold Sauv Blanc, and the soundtrack will be my newly arrived copy of the hard-to-find debut album by the US band who used to call themselves The Bees; it's called Starry Gazey Pie. Result.

What god eats.
and this thread demonstrates why i love this place.
I mix mushrooms in with the mince.

with onion, carrot, and garlic, plus experiments with whatever we've got: celery, parsnip, mushrooms, green beans, aubergine, even spinach. Tomatoes yes, but go easy.

Potato top well-dotted with butter, cheese basically unnecessary.

Great thread.

BTW Hannah, you can make a very delicious stew featuring any and all of the above mentioned vegetables, but with minced pork (well browned) and a few large Boskop apples. Try it (presently).

I'm going to have to throw in a nicked-and-adapted recipe for Cheesy Banger, a dish originally found in a small Suffolk village pub.

Not even vaguely difficult. Lush.

*Cheesy Banger*
Preferably in a trad earthenware oval pie dish.

Layer of reasonable quality pork sausages in a half inch of Branston pickle
Optionally - and I do - you may include leeks in this layer
Thick layer of cheesy mash
Grated cheese topping

Cook. Eat. Yum.

No cheese. At any point.

Brown off the lamb. Shoulder, minced. Proper brown, not grey. High heat.

Saute a mirepoix in the rendered fat. With plenty of thyme and a couple of bayleaves.

Good shake of cornflour. Add stock of whatever flavour.

And chopped mint. Lots of.

Tim of toms at this point is an option. Sometmes yes, sometimes no.

Meat back in.

Spuds on. Floury spuds. Maris P's or King Teds. Baked and riced. No additions bar a shake of salt.

Butter the top. Heavily. Thin slices taken with a cheese slicer.

Oven. 180 degs or so. 40 mins or until it looks nice.

Meal on a plate.

Also, I don't think the mash needs cheese either, particularly if it's shepherds pie.

I wouldn't put celery in because I just don't like it. Diced carrots & a few petits pois is nice for colour too.

Serve with lots of steamed broccoli. Yes, I will be making this for tea tomorrow night like the rest of you.

Baked beans in the pie? Nah, but I do add them to my chili con carne.

Excellent thread!

If you've got any left over, put it in an omelette. I'm a bit pervy about using leftovers in omelettes - fish, veg, rice, pasta, almost anything. Trust me, it's ace.

1. If a pie doesn't have pastry, it's not a pie .. so cottage pie is minced beef with mashed tatties on top in a dish ... and shepherd's pie is lamb stew with mashed tatties on top in a dish (but not a pie in either case)

2. There was a comment way up there ^ about food proscriptions ... Having been a proper veggie from 18 to, er sometime, then a fish-eating veggie til 2007, then finding myself in a compromising position with a reindeer canapé aged 44 (and occasionally since with assorted meats but I'm still largely and reflexively veggie) i have a view. I think the go-anywhere, eat-or-drink-almost-anything and be-polite-to-the-hosts frame of mind can take you many places and let you meet a load of interesting people - Fraser Lewry of this parish is probably the best example ...

Alternatively, the ooh-no, I-can't-drink-red-wine, that's-too-spicy, this-piece-of-Dairylea-has-been-near-a-barnacle, sugar's-so-yin, i-can't-go-to-that-restaurant/country/relative-for-Christmas style of control freakery (for that's what I increasingly think it is*) is simply a manifestation of anxiety and fear

religious proscriptions are a little different, admittedly (as long as you don't delve too deeply into the god not existing thing) ... although macrobiotics would claim to be founded on a belief system of sorts and it's the biggest load of old bollocks going ("the egg has the energy of the whole chicken, maaaan" "but i wouldn't poach two chickens to have on toast for breakfast, would i, you nobber")

final observation: the point at which foody faddy control freakery intrudes into religious observance could cause more offence than giggling when someone says "he's introducing me to pork" so i'll stop

* foods that cause anaphylactic shock or that trigger a gag reflex excepted

Now the weather's closing in again - just a reminder what a good idea this is. This thread directly inspired this (veggie, cheese only because it's the only way to get the kids to eat any)