Entertainment For Lively Minds
Secret Session Men
After a few years of priding themselves as being a power pop trio, Keane are now a four piece live onstage. Who is their mild mannered extra guitarist/keyboardist? The same applies to Feeder who use a couple of extra musicians for live duties. It’s nothing new of course, bands have been using extra musicians onstage since time began.
One of Dire Straits roadies used to play percussion behind stage and I believe U2 employed “secret guitarists” under the stage during their Zoo Tour. Not sure if I totally agree with the latter, it’s a kind of musical deception is it not? But I guess U2 don’t want to ruin their image as a four piece.
Any other bands you can think of who are greater than the sum of their original parts for live work? At least Queen sometimes let their hidden keyboard player join them onstage for a play with Freddie now and again. Forgotten his name at this late hour in the day.
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Stones
How long was Ian Stewart the 'unacknowledged' 6th Stone? Allegedly eased out as he didn't fit the image AL Oldham wanted to portray, he continued to provide keyboards on stage & record for years after.
it was a funny thing with stewart though...
The Stones knew he hadn't the right 'image' and HE knew he hadn't the right image. I read an interview with him once, and he said he wouldn't change a thing; he could still nip down the shops for a pint of milk, have a quiet pint in his local boozer, but still ring up Roger Waters and ask him if he fancied going for a round of golf.
As i may have said before, the genuine affection in which he was held by the band shows in that they asked that Ian Stewart be inductd with them into the Rock'n'Roll hall of fame.
Power pop?!!
Keane ... power pop?!! That's a slur on the genre.
... to answer your question... Sparks always are more than a duo on stage, over the years they've been augmented just by a percussionist or a full band.
Power Flop
It was tongue in cheek re Keane, Fri afternoon mischief!
Never a fan
Please believe me, but I was always intrigued when Wet Wet Wet would appear 'live' on telly with an added guitar player.
Though in videos, photo's and non-music interview appearances there were always just the four core members.
The other geezer was never referred to, mentioned or named. Yet he was often front and centre strumming and singing away with all the rest of them.
I've always wondered who he was.
Actually, no. No I haven't. Never have till now. Honest.
The Mystery Man unveiled
Graeme Duffin.
Lovely chap, great guitarist, but he had a dreadful experience in an early radio interview.
more at :
http://www.stammering.org/duffin.html
Was it not that
he was considered to be too ugly to appear with the band in foties? To ugly for Wetwetwet? What was he? John Merycks spotty little brother?
No
It was his stammer - as explained in the linked article.
Yes,
but nobody stammmers in a photograph, or on TOTP, or whilst playing guitar....
And let me say
that as a bad stammerer from an early age till my mid teens, I am not partaking off the urine here.. indeed, being excluded from "being in the band" because of a stammer, would in my experience, make it worse!
How serendipitous
I have one of those bad boys myself.
Hell of a time of it during teens and early 20's.
Now in a job that requires a bit of forthright speaking in meetings - which I can do with nary a glitch. There are no rules to it. No one is affected in the same way.
Personnally
I found thus: If you talk, and you think you will stammer, you will.
If you talk, and you think you wont stammer, you still will.
If you talk, and you do not care whether you will or won't, you won't.
Thats how it worked out for me any roads.
from the linked article on stammering
EP - Will it be different for you the second time around? Do you intend to be more in the public eye, not just musically but fronting up interviews etc?
GD - The setup in the band is pretty much the same as before, with the four band members being marketed and me partially involved in that area but fully involved in most other areas (TV promo., gigs, recordings etc.) Because I'm not signed to the record company, I tend not to be involved in interviews directly with the band. It wasn't so much to do with my speech, although I suppose I was glad not to have to do them. There was one particularly dreadful interview experience that's etched in my memory. It was a Radio Scotland interview (pre-recorded, thankfully) where I literally blocked on every syllable of every word. I came out out of the studio exhausted, disheartened, embarrassed, and sorry for Nick Lowe who tried for 2 hours to get something broadcastable. Unfortunately nothing was - so it was a double embarrassment with failure added. This may all sound depressing but 2 years ago Radio Scotland wanted to interview me regarding an involvement I had with a remarkable project called 'Amazon Hope'. Guess who showed up to conduct the interview! I swear Nick's face fell when he saw me, but I reassured him that my speech had much improved since our paths last crossed. The interview went really well and I was able to say exactly what I wanted to say, in the way that I wanted to say it, with no struggle. Ironically I've done far more interviews during the last 6 years than I ever did during my 15 years with Wet Wet Wet. That partly reflects my level of confidence in my ability to deal with and enjoy that situation now, and partly having the desire to talk passionately about speech related issues.
Beyond The Wet Wet Wet Sea
Here they are with Graeme and a big band, dreadful version!
The hidden Queen keyboard player...
...Spike Edney.
Spikey And Queen
That's the man, here he is in action in pink, quite funny when he appears!
Ah, Sir Freddie
Was never a Queen fan of any descrition, but was there EVER a better, more charismatic Frontman than Mr Mercury? Ever?
Agreed
I don't think he will ever be beaten. When you see this clip, you just want to forget about about the current incarnation of Queen. The Cosmos Flops should have been the title of their last album.
There was an earlier one too
It's getting late-ish and I'm about to grab a beer from the fridge but I'm pretty certain I can remember Queen having an earlier additional member(!) too. Must have been 1982 or 1984, and I seem to think he was the keyboard player for REO Speedwagon. Can't remember his name for the life of me though.
Fascinating
Interesting, I was never aware of that, always thought that Spikey was the only additional musician Queen used.
Seems I was partly right
Fred Mandel was the keyboard player in question. According to Wikipedia he played on both the Hot Space and The Works tours and as part of Brian May's Starfleet project. No mention of REO Speedwagon though.
The road is littered with examples.
Let's look at Pink Floyd for one example, altho' the session men weree probably no less anonymous than the band at times. Sometimes the anonymity works in that "membership" can then be claimed in adverts for their other projects. Isn't Snowy White always with brackets following his name saying Pink Floyd and/or Thin Lizzy. Was he ever a "member" of either? I prefer the admission of there being a loose conglomeration, any of whom can pop up at any time. Who has not been a Waterboy or in Fairport Convention? (Apart from me, that is. and maybe some of you.)
Nirvaner
Big John ex of the Exploited was the 2nd guitarist with Nirvana for a good while at the height of their success, but I don't think he ever really appeared on stage. Made a good chunk of money and spent some of it on decent Oz wine off me when I was the manager of an Edinburgh Oddbins. Hugely avuncular, anecdote-laden bloke especially after a few Saturday afternoon 'samples' in-store.
how many gigs ?
I know that a lot of Nirvana's road crew were from Edinburgh, but I thought Big John only played a handful of gigs with the band.
Yes, a splendid raconteur, but not always factually factual!
http://www.fortunecity.com/village/jamesdean/141/dunc.htm
Update - not many!
According the the Nirvana FAQ, just the Roseland Ballroom.
Q #122: How many times did John Duncan play with Nirvana?
A: He just played with them once -- at the 07/23/93 show in New York, NY at the Roseland. After that, Pat Smear joined the band as a 2nd guitarist. James added a bit more info; "He was the guitar player for the Scottish punk band the Exploited, and he later worked as a roadie/guitar tech for Nirvana/Kurt. He played with them for a few songs in July 1993 at the Roseland Ballroom in NYC. It wasn't really clear who he was or why he was playing with them at the time, but I've since read that it was actually a live 'audition' of sorts, as they were seeking a second guitar player for the In Utero tour. Ultimately, of course, Pat Smear got the job."
(from http://www.nirvanaclub.com/index.php?section=info/general&file=nfc_faq2.... )
Althou didn't he play with em
at the Roseland as a safety net cos Kurt had overdosed on H before the gig and had to be chemically kicked back awake? Still a suprisingly good show despite that.
Was that
the same John from Goodbye Mr MacKenzie?
yes.
Exploited - McKenzies - all sorts.
Last time I saw him he was being chucked out of a gig at The Venue in Edinburgh - apparently someone who looked like him (20 stone, mohican, tattoos like The Illustrated Man) had led a bunch of hooligans who lifted a pile of merch at a gig there earlier that week.
I am sure that was all a simple misunderstanding.
Long-term unofficial members on keyboard duties
Manic Street Preachers keyboard-player Nick Naysmith.
The Beautiful South keyboard-player Damon Butcher.
Supergrass keyboard-player Rob Coombes seemed to be a hidden figure in the band for years (see their artwork) but recently seems to have been regarded more as a full-member.
The Doors
I think I'm right in saying The Doors used an actual bass player in the studio but live Ray Manzarek would play bass via his keyboard.
Jerry Schef
Jerry Schef played on LA Woman. (And went on to have a fair old run with Elvis, too - both Presley & Costello, and many others)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/communicate/archive/ray_manzarek/page1.shtml
Soft Parade was Harvey Brooks/ Doug Lubahn.
Doug Lubahn played on 2 tracks on Strange Days.
(I haven't got the others handy to check)
So, yes.
When Doves Fly
I may be wrong, but I believe Doves have extra help with a hired keyboard hand, not sure who he is though.
Crowded House have used extra musicians onstage too, Tim Finn for a while too!
Metal Cliche....
... was always the keyboard player secreted somewhere, either backstage or hidden in the depths of the stage set.
I'm sure I saw a feature on U2 around the time of the PopMart tour, and they didn't have extra musicians, they were running off a click track which had the extra keyboards/ambience. A bit of a cheat I think...
Same goes for Coldplay - saw them twice on TV supposedly playing "Viva la Vida" live, and there was clearly some backing track jiggery-pokery going on.
Coldplay
Coldplay certainly use a lot of "backing tracks", that's the old term these days I suppose! There're similar to U2 with their ambience backing, think I would rather just see an extra keyboard player onstage doing the job.It's not as though they can't afford one.
Backing tracks/ambience
Whatever you call it, it's still cheating :-)
I think it was Tom Scholz of Boston who, on a bootleg I once had, announced after introducing the last member of the band:
"...and that's all. Every noise you hear tonight is made by us on stage; no tapes, no sequencers, no hidden musicians"
Genesis
Once Peter Gabriel & Steve Hackett had departed, live drum cover was undertaken by Bill Bruford and Chester Thompson and Daryl Stuermer supported on guitar/bass.
Starsailor had an extra guitarist at Shepherds Bush few weeks ago and despite a couple of additional musicians Muse also resort to all sorts of techie stuff to replicate their "everything including the kitchen sink" productions live.