Rock Tories
I'm trying to compile a definitive list of Rock Stars who've publicly supported The Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain.
From memory, at the moment I've got
Rick Wakeman
Graham Edge
Bev Bevan
Gary Numan
At least two of the Spice Girls
Mike Batt (obviously I'm struggling by this point)
Gary Numan
There are those that have expressed dubious right wing views I haven't included (Clapton, Bowie, Steps hilarious opinions on immigration). But that's too general,. I'm only after the properly declared "true blue" rockers.
This subject fascinates me as there is something extra galling about rock stars supporting the party of order and decency, in a way that I don't feel about actors. When I once saw Sir John Mills on the news at a Tory rally I didn't feel as though I could never watch Ryan's Daughter again. But the types who encourage you to grow your hair long and smash up Holiday Inns in their younger years, now telling you the country is too full of Muslims and poverty is less of a problem than speed cameras, its just not right.
I know some of these people are quite AOR, but my emotional side tells me that everyone in popular music should pay some lip service to rebellion. Lets put it this way, as an ex Pop Quiz viewer, I'm still upset with Tim Rice about it. That's how purist I am on the matter.
The only plus side is there's never anyone too cool. Though there still doing better than the American right. All John McCain could appear to sum up was Hank Williams Jr.
So who have I missed?
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Mick Jagger?
Or is that just a rumour? Likewise, Phil Collins? Or has he denied it?
Weller
Red Wedge? Do wot? See "Early recordings (1977)."
Jagger's Mum for sure
Mick's Mum Eva was an active member of The Conservative Party. Don't know about Mick. Only that he is prone to snobbery and he's obsessed with cricket, which you'd think would make him a shoe-in.
Didn't Collins claim to be misquoted about leaving the country if Labour got in, or was that Paul Daniels, who said something similar?
So hang on . . .
I’m just trying to get to grips with all the crass generalisations/stereotyping we’re supposed to take on board and accept as truths this morning.
1) Anyone who either represents or votes for the Conservative party is either wicked, stupid or both.
2) Smashing up a hotel room is a noble, righteous act of “rebellion”.
3) Anyone who likes cricket is an evil “Tory”.
Think I’ll go back to bed.
Night, night folks.
Can't argue
With fact number 1 Richard. Well said mate. Oh!! Now i get it.
“Well said, mate”
I can’t say I’ve ever represented or indeed voted for the Conservative party but I know plenty of people who have. Perfectly smart, likeable people. And I stand by what I said; not every “Tory” is either wicked or stupid.
As far as cricket enthusiasm being synonymous with “conservatism” goes, let’s start at John Arlott and work our way down shall we?
Go on Rich
"And I stand by what I said; not every “Tory” is either wicked or stupid."
...go on then. Name one living example. I dare you
:o)
Wicked or stupid?
> 1) Anyone who either represents or votes for the Conservative party is either wicked, stupid or both.
You forgot naive. Everyone's entitled to vote any way they like, as said below ad-nausseum. But I'm also entitled to take any view I want of a party that put through anti-homosexual legislation, demonised the poor and immigrants and lionised the rich. And often has a less than stellar history on race relations and the role of women in society. I don't think mildly disagreeing/being respectful of those opinions is in any way more sophisticated than aggressively opposing them.
I'd happily concede its a bit less irksome now that Cameron has tried to nice them up a bit, but when that hideousness was in full swing, outright contempt for Tories seemed the only decent thing to do. They were bigots and bullies, and it doesn't make you Student Grant for saying so.
> 2) Smashing up a hotel room is a noble, righteous act of “rebellion”.
> 3) Anyone who likes cricket is an evil “Tory”.
Oh absolutely, I said both these things with not a hint of mirth.
Paul Weller said he was voting Conservative just
to wind everyone up and it worked.
Or is that what he claimed to be doing
after he'd read a bit of George Orwell and seen the light?
Who's the Tory (Morning Glory)?
Didn't Phil Collins say that he would quit the UK if Labour got in back in 1997? I think Cliff has been involved with the tories before and I have a horrible feeling that Status Quo have nailed their colours to the blue mast, too. There aren't that many, though.
I always admired Gary Numan for being brave enough to be the token tory. During a "Meat is Murder" debate in (I think) Smash Hits there was very articulate and intelligent quotes from Chrissie Hynde and Morrissey about animal rights and Gary Numan's comment was along the lines of "As far as I'm concerned, it's tough shit for the animals - we rule, they don't".
This doesn't imply my agreement, I just admired the fact that he didn't feel the need to water down his views to appear more palatable to the readers.
What does this mean?
I think it would be naive in the extreme to feel that you knew:
a) whether rock stars voted at all - most of them are too self involved and/or busy to bother
b) who they might have voted for
c) what you might deduce from that information.
if they do vote, rock stars are as free as anyone else in the country to cast their vote for anyone who's on the ballot - and to not be villified as a consequence.
I have met idiotic, vindictive, small-minded people from right across the political spectrum and will continue to do so. Nobody has a monopoly of virtue.
What does this mean?
I've got to disagree with David Hepworth's points above. It's not naive to assume rock stars vote one way or another:
a) if they didn't vote, they still wanted to tell you who they would have voted for.
b) if they come out and tell people, where's the naive assumption?
c) you can deduce that, given their public profile they want you to use their position to get a reaction (whether they actually carried out the vote or not).
If they don't want to be vilified, then they needn't tell journalists who they're voting for. But then, there's plenty o' rock stars who believe they've got special insights into the workings of the world.
I agree with David's last point that stupidity has no allegiance but I imagine that the questioner's targets were the old rockers shooting their mouths off at a time when the country was polarised - and the sight , from up here in the grim north at least, of a millionaire announcing from his Surrey mansion that he would leave the country rather than pay the bare minimum of tax would be met with a resounding 'well f.ck right off then'.
so you're saying
that you *do* know, David?
'a) whether rock stars voted at all - most of them are too self involved and/or busy to bother'
I'm interested. It used to mean more to me in the past than it does now, but if any celeb - musician or otherwise publicly nails their colours to a political mast then that info is there for us to know whether it influences our opinion of them or their art or not.
Personally I'm no more interested in whether someone comes out as Socialist, Tory OR Liberal - but expressed political affiliations do interest me.
Just to make absolutely clear
I mean rock artists who have publically declared themselves Tories, attended the cheese and wine evenings etc. Rather than instigating some outing campaign, ta.
Judging someone purely on which party they vote for...
(as long as we're not talking about the BNP or suchlike) doesn't seem to be very sensible. I agree wholeheartedly with David Hepworth's comment above.
It may not be very sensible
But it is still something I instinctively do at some level.
Rick Wakeman, great musician; very, very amusing raconteur. I may even buy his book. But I have to keep suppressing the knowledge that he was a keen supporter of Margaret Thatcher.
Eric Clapton, great musician etc, but did the world a favour by single-handedly inspiring Rock Against Racism and all that flowed from it.
Thankfully, there are not many musicians (or comedians or actors) who have actually "come out" for the Tories that I have been a fan of. The ones that have (Mike Batt, Jim Davidson, Cilla Black, that bloke who plays Ken Barlow etc) did not feature much in my life even before their pronouncements on politics. I think there is a difference between voting for someone in the privacy of the polling booth and using your celebrity to promote a political party. That's a step further. I know all parties like to sign up celebrities (although I doubt it influences anybody's vote). And if people declare themselves to be active Tories I think less of them. It may be immature and wrong but it's how I feel.
Things of course have changed over the last 11 years and Labour, for many younger people, has become the party of the establishment simply by being in power for so long. So perhaps younger musicians may dabble with supporting Cameron. And I know he's a regular at the Word's Cornbury Festival. I'm sure he's charming but I could never vote for him.
Personally, I'd rather spend an evening being entertained by Jo Brand than I would by Jim Davidson.
Politics and Music Do Mix Just
Whilst I agree with some of what David Hepworth said Politics and music are inseperable just listen to the songs of John Lennon and Bob Dylan I don't think if either of those two were Tories they could have written Imagine or Blowin In The Wind.
I have never voted Tory and I never will, Thatcher almost destroyed this country she did destroy millions of peoples lives and I think we are still paying the price now.
Having said that pop music is also entertainment and as such I wouldn't necessarily stop buying a record because the artist was a Tory I did still buy E L O records after Bev Bevans revelation.
I don't mindlessly hate Tories, of course there are intelligent Tories just see Michael Portillo on This Week.
The Tories are the party of the rich and powerful always have been and always will be, New Labour crossed the line in my opinion when they adopted Thatcherite policies and pandered to Rupert Murdoch and the war in Iraq but they are still nowhere near as bad as the Tories.
So to sum up politics and music do mix its inevitable, but when you listen to a record you like can you always tell whether it was written by a Tory or a Labour voter.
We must listen to different records
I have some difficulty extracting the underlying political message from the works of Greenwich and Barry, I must admit. And I've always preferred to be entertained than harangued.
Ellie Greenwich
Now you’re talking
Didn’t she write for The “Archies” too?
Coincidence re. Ellie Greenwich
She is the main backing vocalist on ELO's "Evil Woman", featuring the apparently evil Bev Bevan. Tainted by association! Burn the witch!
Thatcher - it's all her fault
As Fuzzyface says, the differences between the Tories and Labour are less obvious now - certainly to those that only take a casual interest.
But in the 1970s and 1980s the differences were very marked and if you disagreed with the Government, then supporting like-minded pop stars was a way of expressing that in the absence of any other way. The Government was so seemingly invincible that it DID matter. The songs of Billy Bragg, Jerry Dammers, Weller, Communards, Bronski Beat and many more offered hope that something else may come.
Whether it still matters is open to debate.
Lets see how the 45p income tax.....
....concentrates the minds of those on more than £150k. It shouldn't matter one bit if one abides by the principles of socialism (as, say, opposed to New Labour??), but it will, comrades, it will.........
Nonsense
What makes music so special in this regard? Would you also not read books by Evelyn Waugh or P.G. Wodehouse because they don’t share your political views? It’s like saying that you will read ‘The Ragged Trousered Philantropists’ but not ‘Brideshead Revisited’. To cut back to music: Neil Young has banged the drum for both republicans and democrats. How does he fit into the theory?
writers v. rock stars
Good point Gareth. I love Waugh and Wodehouse, I don't care about their political views. But then, writer's go by their work. Musicians, especially in the rock/pop world are selling themselves too. They're idols, so their personal views are more connected to their art (which is being a 'star' as much as musician). (i.e. the eye-watering messianic posturing of Bono). Spokespeople for a generation and all that.
We-e-ell......
I think sharing views may be more important to some than you suggest. A very good deal of people did turn off Wodehouse relative to his wartime views/stance. My opinion of, say, Bev Bevan, is tainted a little by his views. Yes, I still enjoy his work with the Move and very early ELO, but his input was little beyond loud and effective tubthumping. In more recent years, and yes, it is a lazy convenience, I am happy to deride him for his practice of "stealing" the reputations of his peers, messrs Wood and Lynne, with increasingly bogus and ersatz travesties of the Move and ELO operating under his aegance, seamlessly associating this with his political viewpoints, widely reported. The problem, of course, are the talented artists, writers etc, who hold view contrary to ones own preference......
I like the Ramones, but Johnny was apparently somewhat righter wing in views than Atila the Hun is always acknowledged as being, probably unfairly. (Atila, that is.)I love the writing of P.J. O'Rourke and the newspaper article of both the (eqally barmy, in aposite opposite extremes)the Hitchens brothers. How do I reconcile that? By ignoring it. Prejudice should be merely a tool to bring in to play when it supports ones argument, in the same way as the moral highground should be and usually is the last resort of the beleagured professional.
Blah Blah..
Tories....Thatcher....Jim Davidson...Toffs....wonderful halcyon days of the 1970s...soft/rather ancient targets methinks.
Music can and has been powerful on certain issues but it sets my teeth on edge when the music stops and the lecturing continues. I always think of Billy Connolly on Bono: "Strap the guitar on and get back to fxxxing work and leave us all in peace."
was that before
or after the formerly amusing Mr Connolly called for the beheading of Ken Bigley? (Just so everyone would stop going on about it).
He's entitled to his own opinion as is Mr Bono. I choose to ignore both as it happens, but I prefer a call for an end to poverty over a call for an end to a human life.
Touche
Yup he is not as funny as he used to be and the Bigley comment was at best risque and at worst tasteless (didn't the Mail have a field day?) but it doesn't detract from the sentiment that he who takes the pompous Bono down a peg or two can't be half bad.
I don't quite have the same problem with stand-up comedians expressing their views than I do musicians.
That was the point
I was at one of those Hammersmith shows about a week before all the fuss started. Connolly started his set by insulting various religions to test out his audience (a few walked out), then walked to the very edge of the stage and declaimed, 'Ken Bigley!' Cue a huge intake of breath from the crowd as Connolly mimmicked us, 'Oh, don't do it Billy! Don't cross that line!' Which, of course, he proceded to do.
A plague on both your houses
Charlie spot on. While I would disagree with just about anything the Tory-rockers mentioned above would say, I also find myself snorting with derision when "left-wing" musos come out with the ill thought-out conclusions in public debate...anyone see Alex James on Question Time recently? Having said that I thought Brian Eno did acquit himself quite well in his recent appearance on the same prog.
Mark E. Smith
I’d be surprised if Mark E. Smith is a signed up member of the Labour party. The views of his that I’ve come across always seem to be much more at home amongst Conservatives than Labour. Not sure how this chimes with his audience (do they care or do they naturally and wrongly assume he’s ‘one of them’?)
A Fall fan writes
Not wishing to speak for us all, but I believe it is commonly accepted the Mark E Smith is dry, witty, incredibly passionate about his music and a bit of an arsehole. As a fan, I'm aware of his occasionaly questionable politics and ability to run off any old nonsense given the platform. 'Victoria' is pretty good though, eh?
First off...
what a great thread. Cool-headed and intelligent comment given the thread's potentially incendiary nature.
Personally, I couldn't give a fig what artists' political views are - I don't think what e.g. Bono thinks about the world economy etc has ever influenced me or what I think of him. (And I reckon M.E.S has played with different political stances just to get up people's noses). I kind of think musicians are the same as everyone else in that their views probably change to accomodate circumstance/expediency. Or are they all Stalinists/Fascists...er...
So, go on.
On the basis of "Blowin In The Wind", "Every Grain Of Sand" "Union Sundown" and "World Gone Wrong", how does Bob Dylan vote?
I shall be intrigued to know.
He...
goes into a voting booth and puts an X in the appropriate box.
But I think that's the point
How Dylan votes is between him and his conscience. If he chooses to inform the world of how he votes and, perhaps, urges us to vote the same way, it is legitimate for us to judge him accordingly.
Has Bob Dylan Endorsed Obama ?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5014367&page=1
Well in my mind he did.
I must admit feeling a twinge of disappointment when Clint Eastwood and Brian Wilson backed John McCain but it doesn't mean I will stop listening to Pet Sounds or thinking Million Dollar Baby was a great film.
Wealthy rock stars in the 1970s...
...all tended to b*gger off abroad to avoid paying Labour's 98% super-tax. Who could blame them? The same would happen to Noel Gallagher, Paul Weller, Billy Bragg, Damon Albarn etc now with a 98% tax rate, I'm quite sure. That makes them really engrained lefties doesn't it?
Why is voting Tory so terrible anyway? There's barely a rizla-distance between the two main parties anyway.
The 98% tax
Wasn't applied to the whole of a person's earning though was it? It only applied to earnings (and I can't remember the figures) way in excess of what you needed to have an extremely comfortable lifestyle.
Nobody is even hinting at a return to those rates anyway. Labour's plan to tax people at 45% on earnings over £150,000 will only affect about 400,000 people and even this will not happen unless Labour wins the next election. But I think this, coupled with other measures taken to deal with the world credit crisis (Northern Rock nationalistaion, banking support etc), shows that there is now more than the proverbial fag paper between the two parties. One party supported the measures the other didn't. As this isn't a political blog, the only comment I'll add comes from John Lennon and I think it's still true today "The gap between the parties is too narrow. But a lot of people live in that gap."
Indeed, most people live in that gap
The floating voter will switch allegiance purely on the state of his/her pocket and the economy. If Labour's recent actions work, they'll return to power. If they do not, with their record on foreign affairs and now the economy they will spend 20 years in opposition. Whatever your views, for political gain Gordon Brown is not only putting his country's prosperity at risk, it is his party's future too. 'Betting the farm' doesn't come close.
JWL talks sense
I've not read that Lennon quote before, but it should be on the list of his best insights.
Just a point but I wonder how many of the Word's readers will be in the higher tax (not me) - I seem to remember that our profile says we are a high earning lot (on average).
A lot of Band Managers have said that Rock Stars are all socialists - until it comes to them getting their money when they are all Tories (Bernie Rhodes comes to mind, though I think he made an exception for Joe Strummer).
In politics...
...they say that lust for money floors left wingers; sex floors Tories.
The Sex Floor Stories
Are one of my favourite Progpunk Rock bands.
Exactly
And your Rizla distance, I suggest, might be measured by the lack of any evidence that the current Opposition has the stomach to be as authoritarian as the governing party of the last 11 years.
At the risk of entering dangerous waters....
....and making no judgment on the facts either way, you can add Steve Harley to your list.
Thank mate They're lucky to
Thank mate
They're lucky to have his support, after all, he "wrote the book" (see Folk Awards Word Podcast for fuller explanation).
Haven't we
Done this to death too many times (the Thatcher is cool argument springs to mind)? I am a lefty who believes in socialized medicine, education and housing but I can't stand Billy Bragg's
political songs but then again I love his lurve songs. I couldn't really give a crap about what way Dylan votes. I mean I've heard his music used in ads for the Bank Of Montreal and Victoria's Secret. It doesn't really affect how I listen to his music. Dylan'd more about the personal than the political anyway and trying to understand his personality is far more interesting than discovering whether he has changed his political stripes..and lets not even talk about Bono.
Mark E Smith is everybody's favourite grumpy Grandad (though still a cultivated image I bet) and far more interesting to listen to than all of the above mentioned "musicians".
More Rock n Roll Tories
lemme see now:
The Strawbs
The Stranglers
Cliff Richard
Kenney Jones
Bill Wyman
Lulu
George Martin
Phil Lynott
Gary Moore
Tony Hadley
erm
the fat Take That fellow (songwriter)
that Bird out of Sleeper
erm
Vince Hill
Guru Josh
The Strawbs?
But I thought they were part of the union?
Part of the Union
was as vehement an anti-union song as was ever written. Listen to the lyrics.
not forgetting
Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber
Let's not forget the lovely Lyndsey
This need to have one's
This need to have one's political opinions reflected back by pop musicians seems a little infantile to me. But on a tangential point, I've never understood why David Bowie gets such an easy ride for his fascist salute at Victoria Station, and his various outbursts about fascism, when Eric Clapton routinely gets a kicking for the "Enoch was right" speech.
Because Bowie...
(leaving aside the Tin Machine years) is regarded as perennially cool - and therefore he was 'playing with' fascist gestures, whereas Clapton is the very opposite and is regarded as a right wing bastard.
There's another explanation
Sadly, it's rather mundane. Bowie was waving, and because of the angle the camera was shooting him from and the timing of the shot, it could be construed as him giving a fascist salute. Once I'd looked at that picture again I realised the truth may be as dull as that.
On a related note, older readers (whatever that means) may recall the "outrageous" photo of Lou Reed and Bowie "puckering up for a kiss." Actually, and not that it matters a damn, anything more than a cursory glance shows that they were doing no such thing; one was merely leaning in to whisper something in the other's ear.
Still, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?
But it didn't help matters. . .
when he accompanied the dodgy wave with the remark that believed Britain was ready for a fascist dictatorship. (He later said he'd been quoted out of context. Or something.)
Whatever, according to the unimpeachable source that is Wikipedia, it was Bowie and Clapton both who the people who set up Rock Against Racism originally had in mind.
The one I always thought got off lightly was Elvis Costello after his Bar-Room Bonnie with Barney (Best check that - Ed.) over his comments about Ray Charles. That he was several dozen degrees of blood alcohol over the legal limit at the time is surely no excuse; so was Clapton when his gave his notorious diatribe.
In vino veritas is applied in one case but not the other? What's that all about, then?
Quite...
Why on earth would anyone stand in the back of a car, with swept back "aryan" blond locks (as opposed to anglo mousy), hollywood of-duty stormtrooper gear, other than to wave with hand held aloft? In Germany. Must have been the coke induced paranoia of the photographer.
Well, it couldn't have been that nice boy Jones, could it??
Victoria Station (London)...
...bright orange hair, and perhaps rather stylish for a Stormtrooper. But you can watch it for yourself..
Mike Oldfield
Came out for Mrs T after transforming himself from a pathologically shy wafty thing to a stentorian mouth on a stick courtesy of something called Exigesis (one of those American cults that encourages you to shout a lot as you hand over bundles of cash). A lot of ex-hippies made good in the Thatcherite 80's, finding the mood of libertarianism right up their street, Felix Dennis & Lord Beardie of Branson for two.
I think you'll find that Lord Beardie
Will support whoever is on the winning side if it makes business sense. He certainly wasn't averse to New Labour in 1997 as were most of the newspapers now flirting once again with the Tories. They follow public opinion rather than lead it. This is of course except for the Daily Mail which will remain staunchly Tory until a proper right wing party looks like it might win.
GORBALS TORY
Does Lulu count as a 'Rock Star'?
The former Mary McDonald McLaughlin Lawrie who came out of the most working class district north of the border was a staunch supporter of Thatcher and the Tories. An indication of her level of political thinking was recently evident when on her web site she had the temerity to congratulate Obama for his election.A future President who if his pre-election speeches are an indication will take the good ole US of A closer to the Socialist model than any other American politician.
Cilla Black is one also, but Scousers have always been confused politically - something to do with the cultural history of the past and time spent as a 'potboiler'.
This
must be the best example yet of why political posts are not a good idea.
little piece in Q mag
on related pop/politics interface - Wm Hague used a Massive Attack track at a rally, they were less than pleased, Heart objected strongly to McCain using one of their songs during his presidential campaign. d:Ream have reforme:d.
Difficult Subject
It's a difficult subject this, and not one that ever seems to go without causing offense somewhere on this type of medium. The country is extremely divided at present, as it frequently has been, so to try and "out" people because their views currently differ from yours seems a strange activity.
I am confused by the comment about "the party of order and decency", do all the other parties promote disorder and indecency?
'Back To Basics' then? How rock and roll is that?
As said earlier, there is no outing involved. A lot of the rock establishment have publically declared their support for the Tories.
One other name that hasn't been mentioned yet, and probably the first genuinely cool one
Ian Curtis
almost forgot
Stock, Aitken and Waterman
Ronnie Corbett
...remember those rib-ticklin TOTP skits?
o Ho ho
How could we forget
JOHN WINSTON LENNON (voted for Alec Douglas Home in 1964)
...unlike Brian Epstein
Great subject
My mum votes conservative and I strongly disagree with her views but am I going to disown her? I dont think so. I believe people from both sides of the political divide are too righteous about this. Coming out of last weeks Leonard Cohen concert at the NEC I overheard a conversation between two friends with the one saying about the song Democracy that he didnt think it was appropriate for Cohen to voice his opinions about the outcome of the recent Presidential election. The song was written in 1992 you twerp!!
You don't have to disown
You don't have to disown your Mum, no (did anyone say anything even remotely suggesting that?). Though it doesn't mean your also obliged to like her politics either. Personally I wouldn't demand anyone disown a parent even if the parent voted BNP.
Good gig
I've seen Thatcher live. Hague too. Also went to one of Blair's gigs and a more sombre concert by Brown. All pretty good entertainers on a stage. Bloke with red hair, likes Bowie, his prompter broke and he was crap. Only a support act though so should have stayed in the bar. I'll bloody lig at anything me.
It's a free country so I'll see who I want, vote for who I want and criticize whichever politician I like if I think they are playing the arse. A rocker or a roller is entitled to the same privileges as me. Thankfully.
Buying a peerage or knighthood is as old as the hills, whatever party is in power, but it makes not a jot of difference come the revolution. When the robots take over.
Hasta la vista baby...
I saw the late, great George Brown live
It wasn't one of his better gigs, admittedly, but at least I can say I've seen a legend in the flesh.
After weaving his way to the podium, his first words were "It's always a great, great pleasure for me to find myself here in Nelson and Colne...", which would have been fine if the constituency he was in at the time didn't happen to be Colne Valley.
A voice from the crowd shouted "Booger's saw pissed he dun't even knaw whur he is!", at which point Mr Brown became Mr Very Red and the Liberals were assured a landslide victory.
It's still my favourite "Hello, Cleveland!" moment.
Rockers rights
>It's a free country so I'll see who I want, vote for who I want and criticize whichever politician I like if I think they are playing the arse. A rocker or a roller is entitled to the same privileges as me. Thankfully.
Am I missing the posts where it's been suggested they shouldn't have those rights? That seems a bit of a strawman if you look at the whole thread. Cause it's not their right to support the Conservative Party that has been questioned by anyone. If anything, its the right to then call their support for the Conservative Party a bit naff that some people appear to have a problem with. If any rights being questioned, that's the one.
And I'm afraid I will continue to find people you'd imagine at one time to be part of some exciting counter-culture, that end up supporting the party of Clause 28, Back To Basics and The Poll Tax, let's be nice about it, surreal.
See your initial posting.
The right to be right or wrong. It's all a matter of opinion.
"But the types who encourage you to grow your hair long and smash up Holiday Inns in their younger years, now telling you the country is too full of Muslims and poverty is less of a problem than speed cameras, its just not right."
Supporting a party does not mean you support those particular points. There are Muslims belonging to (almost) every party - because they can. Many will say that speed cameras save lives. Politicians within any party can be critical of each other and often are. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong. We are at least free to agree and disagree.
Rock stars hypocrites? You'll be telling me the Pope shits in the wood next.
I wouldnt´
..be at all suprised at tons of Rock Stars who pay lip service to their old ideas , but on polling day, discreetly , and somewhat sheepishly, vote for someone else. Would you ?
It´s hypocritical to hold these people to a higher standard. Why should we expect Billy Bragg ( I´m just using him as a fictitious example, you understand ) to constantly espouse the same views he had as an angry young man, when he has 3 houses, 2 ex-wives, alimony, 4 kids and a fleet of luxury cars to support.
3 houses
> I wouldn't be at all surprised at tons of Rock Stars who pay lip service to their old ideas , but on polling day, discreetly , and somewhat sheepishly, vote for someone else. Would you ?
Talking to the wrong person really, no.
> It´s hypocritical to hold these people to a higher standard.
Not if you're not being hypocritical. Mind, I'm skint
> Why should we expect Billy Bragg ( I´m just using him as a fictitious example, you understand ) to constantly espouse the same views he had as an angry young man, when he has 3 houses, 2 ex-wives, alimony, 4 kids and a fleet of luxury cars to support.
I can see why he might be tempted to abandon those ideals, doesn't mean its right that he should. And isn't that kind of thing often the reason musicians go off the boil? And why you prefer the younger versions more. Why so many rock stars do their best work in their 20s and then become a bit of an embarrassment? Then for them to go "now I'm comfy and a bit out of touch, heres my politics", no thanks, not for me.
Didn't we used to call...
...this naming-of-names thing McCarthyism? Which I thought was pretty much universally acknowledged to be A Very Bad Thing.
If its musicians who
dp
If its musicians who
If its musicians who publically declare their support for the Tories, appear on public platforms with their politicians or do benefits for The Conservative Party, then no, it's not like McCarthy in the slightest. Outing the likes of Rick Wakeman as a Tory is like outing David Cameron as a Tory. All of these musos have chosen to bring their politics into the public domain themselves. For whatever reasons, they wanted joe public to know where they put their X on the ballot box. It's about as McCarthyite as publishing a running order for a Red Wedge gig.
As Christmas is almost...
...upon us and goodwill is all around, I'm prepared to take a step backwards and substitute McCarthyism with Stillsoundslikeablacklisttomeism.
Blacklist?
Yes, beware, Bev Bevan is off my Christmas card list, that'll show him. How would this blacklist operate? I'd imagine with people going "Oh I never realised (X) was a bit of a reactionary git, that's disappointing". They publicly advocate a party, in an attempt to sway public opinion towards The Conservatives, but when that's reported it's a witch hunt?
Here's an example of McCarthyism in action by BBC news, this time with Bob Monkhouse and Ted Rodgers as the victims. Whose secret voting intentions were exposed when they stood on a Conservative election platform next to Margaret Thatcher in front of the nation's press and television urging the public to vote Conservative. Yes, there secret is out!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3746865.stm
Like this mate...
black·list (blāk'lĭst')
n. A list of persons or organizations that have incurred disapproval or suspicion or are to be boycotted or otherwise penalized.
Secret. Out.
Well they are not likely to be too worried, as they are both dead.
You don't think it had anything to do with....
Harrumph! That Gordon Brown is a nice bloke. Not left wing enough.
What effects could this blacklist have?
Well the McCarthy era blacklist destroyed lives. Will the public outing of Tories who've already publicly outed themselves as Tories have a similar effect? Or will it just be one or two less seats sold next time the drummer from The Move plays the hits of Jeff Lynne? I'd opt for the latter.
Qualified?
Failed pop star and soap-twat, Adam Rickitt (from Corrie) once put himself forward as a Tory candidate. I assume this lead on to him voting for the Conservative Party, but who knows.
David Van Day
Bus dweller, burger flipper and ex-Dollar frontman was a Conservative Council candidate for Brighton and Hove. Didn't get in, a fuss about some gay jokes he made didn't help.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1232450.gay_jibe_by_candidate_sparks_call...
If he stood this week he'd probably win. But only if he was up against Brian Paddick and Esther Rantzen.
EDIT - His poem about the credit crunch
Asking to be lied to
If you expect people to be virtuous and true to some lofty ideals , you are just asking to be lied to,and you like the feel of righteous anger. Instead of allowing people to express their political views in a mature fashion, we expect sloganeering and lip service, and that´s just what we get from the majority of our stars ( Billy Bragg, excepted )
Well....
That can lead to the assumption can't it that to give in to the right stops you being a hypocrite and gives you a more mature take on the world? The Sun/Daily Mail's daily dose of hectoring self-righteousness/black and white moralising (which no lefty could hope to match) and The City being capitalist when it suits them/socialist when it suits them says otherwise. And we haven't even got on to all those "family values" Tories.
I see a lot of stereotyping of the left as banner waving teenagers and the right as no-nonsense heroes of common sense. The fact is, you've as much chance of being lied to, or being hectored too by a hypocrite wherever you are on the political spectrum.
Left-wing hypocrisy tends to get the light shined on it most in the media nowadays though cause your Clarkson/Gervais types want to feel less bad about having no ideals or sense of community in the first place. "Yeah, these women who threw themselves in front of the kings horses, bet they had a big house".
Its not Left or Right,It´s wrong
My point is the same as applied to the Right or the Left. look what you get when in The States they expect their leaders to be religious, or pretend to be religious. You can be Left and Right at the same time, Left in some areas, Right in others and just plain confused in other areas.
Not a rockstar...
...but does anyone remember wacky Radio One DJ Adrian Juste?
This 10th rate Kenny Everett and real life Alan Partridge financed his own Vote Conservative audio cassette in the style of his wacky comedy-clips heavy radio show designed to warn young voters in the 1992 election not to vote Labour.
(and they say the Tories are out of touch with the kids.)
.
Radio One
Tony Blackburn told striking miners on his mid seventies Radio One breakfast show to get back to work. Though he later admitted that this was because "the picketing was making me late for panto"
Tony Blackburn
"Tony Blackburn told striking miners on his mid seventies Radio One breakfast show to get back to work."
SCAB-TASTIC , Mate!
.
Other Tory DJs
Noel Edmunds
Mike Reid
Pete Murray
Derek Jameson
Dave Nice
Oy!! Richard Lowe!
We are still waiting.
...go on Rich. Name one. Just one
Tory
Can I join in? I vote Tory. But I'm hardly famous.
Please accept my sincere apologies for not aligning my political views with those decreed as mandatory by the fashionable music press and associated media.
Maybe we should argue about religion as well.
So it's YOUR fault then!
I vote for whatever person I want to be my MP. I voted Lib Dem because I knew the candidate and she also knew she would only come third at best. Next election I was never going to vote for Ruth Kelly - never have - don't like the woman. But she has buggered off. So the field is open. My vote is for sale, although I do like the Conservative candidate, been in a meeting with her in the past.
Nevermind, come the revolution...
Beany makes the consummate point....
Surely an MP should be the best (wo)man for the locality job, irrespective of party politics, which seldom is the actual case. I live, as is often stated in Lichfield, where the sitting MP is a twerp called Michael Fabricant, who has a shock of bright yellow "hair". He gets a significant mention in Jeremy Paxmans excellent expose of parliament and politician, "The Political Animal". He was one of the few tories whose vote tallies rose thru'out the Blair years, not because Lichfield is a bastion of right wing telegraphers, but because, simply, he is a bloody good MP. Committed to his constituency, he is never out of the public eye, is involved and approachable, unceasing in his efforts to get matters south staffordshire aired in Westminster. As a previous card carrying labour party member, indeed sometime ward chairman (in another life, some number of miles south of Lich), I am now ready to give this tory my vote.
Disclaimer: PV or Steve T, if I am making a terrible mistake, let me know.......
Nah
Lets talk about art, taste and opinion. It's (currently) longer.
Larkin's Law
If I discarded all records made by people who have in their time expressed right wing opinions - Elvis Presley, anyone? - there wouldn't be many, if any, left in my collection.
For what it's worth, Numan crossed over to New Labour some years ago. As indeed did the two Spice Girls - Victoria Beckham (perhaps with the pressure of her Labour-voting husband) and Geri Halliwell (who briefly appeared in a 2001 Labour election broadcast before it was embarrassingly revealed that at the time she wasn't actually registered to vote).
The music of bands like the Strawbs, the Moody Blues and ELO is fundamentally conservative so it's no surprise that they vote that way - indeed, when Jeff Lynne was still in the Idle Race they announced that they were donating all the royalties from one of their singles to the Tories as a "protest" (though this may have been in sympathy with his mate Roy Wood having to give Harold Wilson all his "Flowers In The Rain" royalties).
Indeed Joe Elliott of Def Leppard - who has admitted to voting Tory - reckons that most ostensibly right on pop and rock stars vote Tory on the quiet after a word with their accountant.
Conservative DJs are no surprise, either - remember most of the pirate radio originals saw the whole thing as free enterprise in motion, free from the stifling State boot, and it was a Labour Government - or to be precise, the then Postmaster General, the artist formerly known as Anthony Wedgwood Benn - who closed them all down. I believe Peel was the only one of them who voted Labour.
Unless we're talking about real far right nutters like Skrewdriver then as a floating Labour/Lib Dem voter I prefer to apply what I call "Larkin's Law" - i.e. love and cherish the art, forget about the artist.
...and it has been said...
...that if you're a member of a band, one of the things you're doing is running a small business. A sector more true blue than red flag.
Then again, giving your
Then again, giving your music away on MySpace etc...socialism in action there, provided you hang on to your day jobs...
Wow - I've just read through this lot when I should be doing
something more important. Personally I despise the non voter more than any other (ok apart from BNP). E.g. Colleen Nolan (a loose woman apparently) said she never could be bothered, or words to that effect. It must be time for a poem.
Reluctant Voters
So terribly busy, they can’t find the time
So much to do as they sit and they whine
The feckless, the witless, the idle, the bloated
Bragging about how they never voted
It might rain, I might get wet
Can’t I do it on the internet?
Or click a message on my new mobile?
That would make it seem worthwhile
Can I do it in the burger bar?
Maybe as I drive through in my car
I’ve got to get home and have my tea
And watch a film on my DVD
Meanwhile in a distant land
Desperate voters take their stand
Walking miles at break of day
Just for once to have their say
Not minding if they’re forced to queue
That’s the procedure all go through
Women get roughed up by a thug
Responding with a subdued shrug
Hoping that this one’s for real
And the outcome isn’t already sealed
An opportunity at last to use your voice
A slender chance to make a choice
Meanwhile the apathetic must stay mute
They’re all the same, men in suits
Let’s hope you never have to pay
The price for turning the other way
Or ever have to stand and fight
Or disappear in the dead of night
No words to argue, no time to resist
Or reclaim the chances, already missed
Then sit wondering how it all got skewed
And democracy led to servitude
Take a warning and don’t lose sight
Certain ideologies sleep very light
Richard Raftery www.qi5.co.uk/rafterythepoet
I don't think the expressed
I don't think the expressed desire to leave the country if the "Labour government" refused to die makes one Tory. Even if it did, it would be Tory's loss. Not that there's any reason to care what Phil Collins thinks or believes, ever.
I've wondered if the tensions between Wakeman and Howe over the years centered on their political differences. Possibly, their dietary extremism played some role, as well. My impression is that Wakeman is the more affable chap. Not that this attribute mitigates his Tory proclivities, mind. But there it is. Anyone for cricket?
Steve Howe?
Isn't he the long-lost lovechild of Geoffrey Howe and Margaret Thatcher? Just wondering...
Thanks for the mental image there...
...of Thatcher being ravished by a dead sheep, to paraphrase Denis Healy.