Entertainment For Lively Minds

Word RSS FeedsWord Magazine on YouTubeWord Magazine on Last FMWord Magazine on Share My PlaylistsWord Spotify PlaylistsWord Magazine on FacebookWord Magazine on Twitter

Rock is a famously middle-class genre with an almost exclusive art college lineage in the UK

ceepee's picture

This is taken from an article here - http://thequietus.com/articles/02313-dirty-projectors-the-curse-of-brook.... I have no idea about the "scene" that is being referred to but this line made me think - is this true or even close to the truth?

What do you think - have the working class (or upper class for that matter) really made no appreciable contribution to the world of rock?

0

work class yes

upper class no

The main issue here in fact is that people always feel being called middle class is some how a perjorative when in actuallity its the highest complement you can be called because basically we are great. As well as making great music, we invented the modern world, we get all the important things in life done. Middle class = civilisation.

0
Chris G | 29 July 2009 - 3:16pm

Interesting point

How many rock/pop stars that we think of as being working class are actually middle class, and does it even matter? After all we accept a level of artifice in other respects such as the clothes they wear, the characters they assume etc.

I guess my original point was that the source of the quote was making what seemed to be a fairly sweeping claim and at least implied that this wasn't the case in other countries, which I took to mean the US as this was the "scene" they were discussing. There was a definite sense that music made by effete toffs wasn't as worthy as that made by rough, tough working types who were too busy scraping a living to indulge in arty-fart, airy-fairy, non-committal dilettantism.

0
ceepee | 29 July 2009 - 3:34pm

The middle classes are one

The middle classes are one of the few social groups who aspire to be seen as working class. You will always have more middle class rock stars for two reasons, firstly they have the means and the time to indulge their interests & secondly I think they are now in the majority numbers wise so the law of averages will apply.

0
woodface | 29 July 2009 - 7:50pm

Money/Time

Traditionally university/art college made it easy for bands to form, back in the day when grants were handed out rather than student loans you had money in your pocket, but more importantly you had the time to rehearse, sometimes even a place to rehearse free and a ready made audience. Plus, a bunch of like minds to bounce ideas off.

If you're living on a council estate, with not much money you could have all the time in the world, but if you can't afford your instruments or rehearsals or the means to get to gigs etc etc etc you're a bit stuffed.

A lot of 'scenes' in the UK anyhow came out of art school people: punk notably was tied up with art school pretty closely, and the Mod scene (once it stopped being a fashion), in the 60s, heading off into the psycedelic scene was filled with art school attitudes.

0
SimonL | 29 July 2009 - 3:23pm

The Beatles?

Only Lennon had the middle class vibe about him. The other 3 were solidly working class.

I think the middle class/art school stereotype is very London centric and really quite specific to a few key characters....

Alexis Korner, Pete Townshend, Kit Lambert, Andrew Loog-Oldham, Jimmy Page, Mick Jagger, Steve Marriott, Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton.

Many other members of the bands around that circle were very working class...

0
Six Dog | 29 July 2009 - 4:03pm

Lennon

I see it's becoming accepted wisdom that John Lennon was 'middle class'. Only if your definition of this term is being the son of an itinerant ship's steward! As we know, he was raised primarily by his Aunt Mimi, and there's no doubt she was a step up the 'social ladder' from the other three's families, but even then, their relative prosperity came from dairy farming, if I'm not mistaken.

Not exactly what I would term 'middle-class', i.e. doctors, lawyers et al. Just proves again it's a relative definition...

0
DougieJ | 29 July 2009 - 7:38pm

shows that class is combination

of wealth, nature, nuture, education, regionality,profession and i think most importantly aspiration.

0
Chris G | 29 July 2009 - 7:43pm

Values

It's mostly to do with values. When people get wealthier they don't change class, or when they move house or change job. Education might do it over a few generations but I'm not even sure about that.

0
Twangothan | 30 July 2009 - 8:54am

values do come into it

your right. It's far more complicated than most people in this supposedly class obsessed county think.

0
Chris G | 30 July 2009 - 10:08am

one generation

I think it can more or less happen in one generation. My wife and I are overeducated working class (from the schemes and docks). My kids have a nanny and pony lessons. (We don't have any money as a result). We are still working class, but I think I have middle class kids - at least lower middle class.

0
paulwright | 31 July 2009 - 10:39am

Ver Modfather

I remember reading that Paul Weller had a discussion with Roger Daltrey about class. Daltrey felt that 'we're all middle class now' to which the Going Underground hitmaker retorted 'I fckin well ain't!'. Purely on the basis of his wealth, property and privately-educated children he is middle-class, but clearly not in attitude.

0
DougieJ | 31 July 2009 - 10:45am

Paul W

you are a case in point because it's partly about aspirations, you aspire to a set of values /objectives/goals/activites/lifestyle.

What we claim we are is only part of the whole thing because it's also about how we are percieved by others. In the small mining village I grew up I was called a "posho" becuse of the way i talked , my parents eductaion/jobs and becuse we visited cathedrals instead of water parks on holidays.

When I got to college and met a girl who's dad had an appartment overlooking central park and who's boyfriend had a coutts bank account I was not so "posh". That being said she had terrible table manners and as my Nan would say was "a bad sort"

0
Chris G | 31 July 2009 - 11:01am

A Coutts bank account is available to anyone who

is willing to pay the fees :-)

0
stimpy | 31 July 2009 - 6:14pm

Which county

would that be then? :-)

0
Black Type | 1 August 2009 - 3:01pm

Surrey?

...

0
Glenbervie | 1 August 2009 - 7:22pm

He SAID...

(geddit?)

0
Austin | 1 August 2009 - 9:32pm

Sounds like sour grapes to me

Critic doesn't like album that all the other critics like and thus holds it as a representation of all that's wrong with modern music just to emphasise their point.

Bitte Orca is a very good, albeit somewhat challenging, album. The hipster scene is all about bands you "should" be listening to and it seems Dirty Projectors have struck lucky for one reason or another (see also Animal Collective, Grizzly Bear). I can't see how that says anything about class, negative or otherwise.

0
Joe R | 29 July 2009 - 4:17pm

Ever considered that the

Ever considered that the guys in the 60's 'raised their game'.
In clothing, musical influences, where they hung out, who they hung out with, reading and even in the way they spoke (see Brian Jones, Keith, Mick) they generally tried to better themselves, even if some of it might have been put on.
Post-60's and the angle has been to be as oiky as one can possibly be. Not a good thing, in my opinion, but then I'm very proud to be middle-class!
Jagger was more astute than most and virtually changed his whole persona from well spoken intellectual (1964-1969) to barrow-boy (anytime after Altamont). His taste in everything also mirrored the decades, from sharp and exciting (60's) to rubbish (post-60's). I prefer the 60's version and mentality.
I also think that Jagger, Lennon, McCartney etc. got fantastic educations.
Post-60's and my guess is that their equivalents wouldn't have been so lucky.

0
ranger | 29 July 2009 - 4:32pm

Remember also that in the 50s/60s

there were still the art schools providing further education for the less academically inclined. If your 18-year old working class Surrey delta bluesman didn't/couldn't get into a university or polytechnic, the art schools were perfectly placed to give them an alternative to work.

The prevailing culture of the time and place was that anyone who would put together a half-way decent portfolio could get a grant and attend art school, academic achievements and exam results were often of secondary importance. The combination of generous grants, free rehearsal space and affordable musical instruments (thanks to the newly-relaxed HP rules) were a dynamite combination.

0
stimpy | 29 July 2009 - 7:25pm

I would love to have been a student in the late 60s...

or early 70s.

My photography tutor at university told me that when he did his degree back then there were about 13 people on the course. At the start of the first year they were each loaned a large format camera which they could use for the next three years. During my time there must have been 200 people studying photography across various courses and there were only about 8 large format cameras for the students to use. At times we had to reserve them weeks in advance.

0
Patrick Crowther | 30 July 2009 - 8:36am

But Patrick

You would now be at least 10 years older.

0
Steerpike | 30 July 2009 - 10:38am

That would be OK...

then my exterior would match the grumpy old bastard on the inside.

0
Patrick Crowther | 1 August 2009 - 8:19pm

The upper class gave us..

David Dundas, son of the Marquess Of Zetland, and writer of "Jeans On"
So, massive contribution from them then.

0
shane pacey | 30 July 2009 - 12:29am

also King Tubby

and Screaming lord Sutch

0
Chris G | 30 July 2009 - 8:39am

not fogetting Nigel Tufnel

5th Baron Haden-Guest of Saling

0
stimpy | 30 July 2009 - 11:51am
Chris G | 30 July 2009 - 12:06pm

And of course

John Mellor, public schoolboy and son of a diplomat, aka Joe Strummer.

0
Twangothan | 30 July 2009 - 7:33pm

Hardly upper class though...

0
stimpy | 31 July 2009 - 10:28am

Pogue Mahone - what what what!

see also that broth of a bhoy Shane MacGowan - Westminster alumni...

0
DougieJ | 31 July 2009 - 10:47am

wasn't shane on

a scholarship from quite lowly origins and hated the place (but then everyone says that from Prince charles down)

0
Chris G | 31 July 2009 - 10:54am

Wor Bryan Ferry

salt-of-the-earth miner's son, like.

0
Black Type | 1 August 2009 - 3:04pm

and wor Gordon Sumner

son of a milkman...

0
DougieJ | 1 August 2009 - 5:28pm
Privacy Statement    ©  2006 - 2012 Development Hell Ltd