When I read the review, my initial thought was that it might have been a parody.

... or a note of his music at all.

But Rob's points about hearing NWA for the first time certainly struck a chord. I'm still probably not going to bother with Tyler though. Because I'm 37 and a bit tweedy.

Apparently in music you can be a misogynistic bastard but as long as you don't sing about it you are OK.
What should he be rapping about with his vast life experience?

Isn't this the same chap who nailed Adele to the Guardian Naughty Step by deliberately distorting - through highly selective quotation - her remarks about taxation in a Q interview?

For those not familiar with Macc Lads oeuvre, I'd recommend "Fluffy Pup" from Macc Lads Anthology as a suitable "taster" (it's on spotify). Perhaps a special Newsnight Late Review could be convened to compare and contrast with this Tyler, The Creator cove.

read the piece yet, but having immersed myself in a lot of Odd Future's music over the last week including both Tyler albums, I admire the dexterity of the rhymes and most of all the musical adventurousness whilst finding the lyrical content a bit depressing.
Hopefully, as Eminem largely appears to have, they'll grow out of it (most of them are still teenagers) and channel their undoubtedly incredible creativity in more worthwhile directions soon.

I don't have a problem with this album being reviewed in The Word. It's a magazine that covers interesting things as they occur in culture, and this is easily the biggest story in rap this year - a guy who was a virtual unknown 12 months ago and has now had a top five US album - and certainly the most anticipated rap album. If anything, I'm pleased it wasn't avoided.

Nor do I think the review was an apology for the lyrics. It was a fairly frank and honest examination of why this kind of thing appeals to some people in the first place - there's no point on pretending that it doesn't. Straight Outta Compton has sold over 3 million copies, and not all, I imagine, were bought by English, white, middle-class, liberal music journalists.

I'm just disappointed that Rob liked it because I'm convinced it's rubbish. It's monotonous, one-dimensional, unimaginative, over-long, and Tyler is an extremely poor rapper. I wish The Word would cover more interesting, positive rap, of which there is plenty, but I don't really expect it to.

I read Rob Fitzpatrick's review of Goblin earlier today and remained resolutely unoffended, mainly because I disingenuously assumed that he listened to the album a few times and then wrote down his honest opinion of it.

Was he supposed to pretend that didn't enjoy the music because of its unsavoury misogynist tone. I would have thought less of him as a music critic if he had. If you can't be honest with your feelings then you have no business writing about art.

I love the band Anal C**t who have shown themselves capable of writing a line as puerile and homophobic as "London's calling and they're calling you gay," or a song as unpleasant and violent as Women: Nature's Punching Bag.

I don't know why I like this band. I just do. My appreciation of their music neither reflects nor informs the way that I think about or treat women, different sexualities, races, or religions.

On the other hand I find Under My Thumb by The Rolling Stones so horribly offensive that I cannot bear to listen to it.

Appreciation of art isn't about morality, or maybe it is but in a weird selective and inconsistent way.

Rob Fitzpatrick is a family man. He has a wife and kids. I doubt there is much cross-over between his world-view and that of Tyler, The Creator. He liked the album and that's that.

Any white knights here should give their own record collections a quick once over before they consider putting the boot in.

take it too seriously chaps

from the Quietus, which interesting name checks Whitehouse and Backward7s faves, referred to earlier in this thread.

http://thequietus.com/articles/06232-tyler-the-creator-goblin-review

Isn't that the root of this? Rob Fitzpatrick escapes into the music of Tyler. Fine. The next critic escapes into the music of Anal C**t or The Macc Lads or John Martyn and is pilloried for it. Not fine.

The OP's point is valid. There is an inconsistency in music criticism between the tolerance of coarse working class black music and the tolerance of coarse working class white music but the inconsistency doesn't lie with Rob Fitzpatrick. As backwards7 says, it's an honest review and I don't think it merits criticism of itself. Nor do I think the OP was doing that.

I've listened to a few Tyler tracks and there is something interesting going on there but it's not radical by any stretch of the imagination. All Rob Fitxpatrick should be challenged with is whether or not Tyler is more than a fad and has the chops to outgrow the controversy of his lyrics. Does Tyler warrant the lead review in Edition 101?

Like I say, perhaps it's simply escapism. In the review there is a strong sense of Rob Fitzpatrick investing a great deal of rose-tinted romanticism in Tyler and his craft. And he knows it and he implies it. In simple terms there is an allure to a foul-mouthed LA hipster that hits the spot in a way that, perhaps, beery lads from Macclesfield don't. It's definitely a fan-boy review. In fact the thing it reminded me of most was Andrew Collins' gushing man-love for The Arctic Monkeys expressed in Word a couple of years ago. Both men appear to have reconnected with a love of a genre from yesteryear as rekindled by a new act of the day triggering something dormant in them both.

In truth I suspect both men are revisiting their own teenage selves through their respective musical choices from the here and now, discovering a new musical expression of what stirred them up in their "prime" as the years of marriage and fatherhood pile up and take them further away from the salad days.

And if escapsism at 30/40+ isn't a valid basis upon which to give an opinion about new music then probably two-thirds of the Massive had better just stick to leafing through old copies of NME stored in the loft.

there's an 'aw bless him' tone to the whole thing, like Rob finds Tyler's attempts to shock us endearing, which is not only condescending but sounds a bit phoney to me. I bet it wouldn't be so ridiculous and thrilling in a shopping centre on Saturday afternoon. It would be what it is -- lame, and a bit of a drag.

I thought it was fine. I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about. Rob liked it. What was he supposed to say?

and assumed the lyrics to be a spoof, even a parody. Does that make a difference? Is this lyric more or less worthy of disapproval than a (formerly) poor, black kid from South Central LA?

"I walked into the Nag's Head for to sustinate me belly,
There was a fit crack in the corner but I knew her cunt was smelly,
She smelt of rotting fish heads and old and crispy sick,
Said her name was Charlotte and she wanted suck me dick.

Oh, I thought now lad, times are hard, and it's nearly closing time,
I'll put a bag on her head, and a peg on me nose,
And I'll grummage through the slime...

Charlotte is the biggest slag in Macc,
She'll do anything to get you in the sack,
With her legs spread wide she opens up her crack,
Spends her life just lying on her back."

..biggest editorial miscue since the Dido cover.

I don't know where people get this idea that he gives rappers an easy ride. He was once particularly critical of MC Clure.

It sounds like an album I wouldn't like. But then glorifying rape and violence ain't my bag. Sounds like an even more unpleasant adolescent purile black version of Blink 185 who of course wouln't have got a Word review in a million years. Wonder why that is?

I can't think of anything else to add that hasn't already been posted above.

Grant is making is it? In response to his question, I would say he's right, there is no question that it would not be tolerated. Witness what happened to Morrissey when he draped himself in a Union Jack and recorded Bengali in Platforms to pick just one example.

As to the whether the Tyler album is any good artistically - that is a different question. The fact that people like MF Doom have been mentioned in comparisons has piqued my interest. On the hand mentions of Eminem have seriously put me off. Can that guy just stop his whiney moaning about how hard is life is please?

It's one thing to reflect "the urban reality" or whatever we're calling the bleak day-to-day grind of the underclass this week. The Wire and, even more so, The Corner did that. But whenever the misery, injustice and hopelessness of life at the bottom is reflected in art it's usually with the aim of drawing attention to it in the hope that someone might - you never know - do something about it. And I don't get the impression (at least not from the admittedly tiny amount of TTC that I've listened to and the handful of lyrics that I've skip-read) that this is the case here. I may, of course, be wrong.

Dickens could have presented the bludgeoning to death of the prostitute Nancy by her pimp in whatever the equivalent Victorian terms for "Pop the bitch in the motherfuckin' mouth jus' for talkin' shit" or "Bitch work for me; she my dishwasher" were. But he didn't, did he?

I think it's wise never to underestimate the ability of the record-buying public to grasp with remarkable enthusiasm the wrong end of any given stick - - remember the gung-ho appropriation of Springsteen's "Born in the USA"? - and if TTC really is only "telling it like it is" in order to decry, ridicule or otherwise do his bit to erode that "it" rather than entrench it even deeper, then he seems to be making a right balls-up of it, doesn't he?

Don't think I'll listen again. Really NOT original or just good enough to justify holding the lyrics in abeyance. But then it's not designed to be music that I would like, is it?

I haven't read the review or heard the record, as I tend to be of the opinion that most rap is monotonous, one-dimensional and unimaginative, sadly mirroring the lives of many of those who create it. I'd find it far too depressing a soundtrack to my day.

Perhaps I should investigate in the cause of artistic curiosity. Is it the kind of record you would wish your wife or servants to play?

when Buju Banton released Boom Batty Bye - a homophobic reggae tune that got the music press up in arms. It was actually clearly inciting people to shoot gays. No double standards there, there was widespread outrage.

I think you have to able to distinguish between advocacy and humour/ entertainment. Like it or not - some people find offensive jokes funny. The likes of South Park etc are a testament to that. I'm growing out of it now, but in my 20s, my friends and I revelled in each other's ability to say the most offensive thing possible. Still do from time to time.

People enjoy being shocked. Some more than others. For Eminem, NWA or whoever to write those songs is not much different from Tarantino's script for Kill Bill.

There's a difference between that and something like Skrewdriver which actually advocates White Power and racism in the same way that there's a difference between writing Mein Kampf and writing Kill Your Friends.

It's a fine line and one which is very difficult to articulate but the intentions of the songwriter are the distinguishing factor, which is why there's always been such controversy about Morrissey's comments in regard to immigration.

Of course this the only Goblin you need:

Rob sometimes writes really good stuff, and sometimes he seems to think that he is Hunter S Thompson educating Daily Mail readers.

But he isn't. He really isn't.

As far as I can gather from the review, this is the latest Derek & Clive-type effort for adolescent boys to titter over.

I've no problems with the review as such - there can be few things more cheering than someone successfully translating their enthusiasm for a piece of music into print.

Well done, Grant. You have to keep Kid A now until another thread generates as much heated debate as this one. I would like to point out that I'm enjoying the intelligent and robust arguments being put forward here. As usual, my level of contribution stoops to stoopid.

Here he is, tinkling the ivories

But it might be worth clarifying a few things. For one, I can't see anywhere in the review that I apologised for anything. I specifically attacked conflicted liberals in the first paragraph. I'm not apologising for anyone, nor am I a conflicted liberal (I'm probably not liberal enough to be conflicted, tbh).

The point I was trying to make is that pop music has spent decades outraging people and it is actually hilarious to me that some people still insist on giving it that power. Tyler is a 19-year-old boy. He's swearing and showing his bottom and the world is playing its part by lifting its metaphorical skirt and screaming. Doesn't that seem a little, well, silly to you?

As far as I'm aware Tyler, rather like Ice Cube before him, has never committed any violent crime. It's all just things he made up. For fun. To get a rise out of people. It seems to be working quite well as far as I can see. I don't feel the need to join in the chorus of hand-wringing disapproval because I'm an adult with other (real) stuff to do and to think about, but if anyone else wants to feel upset about some naughty words they heard (or, more often, haven't heard) ON A POP RECORD then go ahead, enjoy yourself.

And I used to love the Macc Lads. Maid Of Ale was a CHOOON.

x

I thought the review was absolutely idiotic. The way it set up "our" default position to the provocative drivel as "anger" when in fact it was just risible. And what about the bit when we are supposed to marvel at the kid's sensitive side because of his considering of rainbows! RAINBOWS!

Should never have been run for all kinds of reasons.

My considered Eamonn Forde style (with thanks to Patrick Crowther) review is:

Tyler The Creator's Goblin - SHIT
Rob Fitzpatrick's Review - SHIT

If only it were just a little boy saying rude words and showing his bottom. That would be far more entertaining. One thing is for sure, it's not art.

xy - SHIT!
yx - SHIT!

Is that what we've come to? Isn't that what the rest of the internet is for?

That doesn't seem to have been made in this exhausting and exhaustive debate: seems to me that if Rob F is giving Tyler a "free pass" it's less to do with his ethnicity or nationality, and more to do with his youth. I suspect he wouldn't have been as indulgent had Tyler been ten years older.

Mr Fitzpatrick, would you stand up a moment please....

This thread, which relates both to music, and the content of 'The' Word Magazine, has received - to date - 167 replies.

That's, like, bang out of order guys. Talk about letting the side down.

We should be discussing our favourite fruit, or things that mildly annoy us, how to get an Apple thingy to work, or the loveliness of Kate Mossman, shouldn't we?

Disturbing, very, very disturbing.

Does it now take longer to read the entire Word thread about Tyler's album than it takes to listen to the entire album?

Maybe someone can perform a kind of Wizard of Oz/Dark Side of The Moon parallel "play and read" and find out whose posts get the most expletives.

Other options:

The Tyler Drinking Game:

- 2 fingers for every f**k, b*tch and n*gga
- down-in-one for every reference to oral sex

The Rob Fitzpatrick Reviewing Game:

Write a review and see how many people you can annoy by liking something they don't like.

Extra Points Award: for annoying people who haven't heard the music you've reviewed.
Mega Bonus Award: for activating Attack Dog Mode where one poster has a right old barney with another poster.
Mega Mega Bonus Award: for activating Attack Dog Mode via an issue totally unrelated to your review.
Lifetime Achievement Award: for getting somebody to leave the Blog in a huff...forever!

http://www.elyrics.net/read/t/tyler-the-creator-lyrics/bitch-suck-dick-l...

For info

Goodness me, he's a potty mouth.

Once again I gotta punch a bitch in her shit

Too many, but I think its worth posting this:

"Ok, you got me. I'm not a f**king rapist or a serial killer. I lied"

"I'm a 19 year old f**king emotional coaster with pipe dreams "

(Tyler the Creator, "Goblin")

And I couldn't find the quote, but elsewhere on the album he says (effectively), don't do what I say, I'm just talking nonsense for my own amusement.

Which is also the line he took in the NME cover article of him recently. Parallels are there with Marilyn Manson, really. He's doing it for shock and nothing more. Puerile, not sinister.

mercy me I think I've done it

We should worry more that in this month's issue Peter Hook recalls watching Coronation Street in 1959.

Amazing, seeing as it didn't start until December 1960

http://soundblab.com/content/content/view/id/3827