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Re Luis Suarez/Patrice Evra

Roy Levy's picture

Can I just make the observation that on the whole people tend not to complain of having been the victim of racist abuse unless it's true.
That is all.

1

Whoever is guilty

should be banned for a very very long time.

That is all.

0
Ahh_Bisto | 20 October 2011 - 5:12pm

You have a more trusting nature

Than I

Absent evidence, I wouldn't take anyone's word for anything

3
sitheref2409 | 20 October 2011 - 5:13pm

The no smoke without fire rule

is not totally reliable.

4
Leedsboy | 20 October 2011 - 5:57pm

People also tend

to not tumble theatrically to the ground unless fouled.

Sadly, nothing can be taken for granted on the football pitches of the 21st century. Apart from the brilliance of Leo Messi (see other thread).

0
eminentdan1978 | 20 October 2011 - 5:57pm

Excuse me!

I think we could ask Jack Rodwell about people's tendency to fall to the ground theatrically when not fouled and get his opinion.

Or we can just check the video evidence.

3
Carl Parker | 20 October 2011 - 6:27pm

EFC

Rodwell shouldn't have gone. It wasn't a foul. However, he did still clatter into Suarez at speed which would a) knock you over and b) hurt. It was the ref's error, not Suarez's.

1
Spartacus Mills | 20 October 2011 - 6:31pm

LFC

Spartacus, fellow redman (iirc), I disagree. It was a foul.
Was never a sending off though. Probably not a yellow card. Deeply unfair. And consequently rather funny. But if I was a toffeman I'd be spitting tacks.

0
paulwright | 21 October 2011 - 7:51am

Brilliant,yes

but diving and this also

0
Sour Crout | 20 October 2011 - 8:17pm

familiar technique

they must teach that at Argie football school

1
Nick Duvet | 20 October 2011 - 9:53pm

many a true word,Nick

0
Sour Crout | 21 October 2011 - 12:04am

United fan are you?

I've no idea who is lying and neither do you. All we can hope is that justice is done.

1
Spartacus Mills | 20 October 2011 - 6:13pm

I'm a United fan

I hope it is true because if it isn't then Evra is out of order and there is nothing worse than crying wolf over a serious issue, and definately not because the other bloke plays for Liverpool. (Who for the record I bear no malice towards - apart for 180 minutes a year)

1
daddyclark | 20 October 2011 - 8:05pm

Likewise

I'm a Liverpool supporter and I hope it *isn't* true, because it'd be embarrassing. But I'm not going to leap to Suarez's defence just because he wears our shirt. I've no idea if he did it, but if he's guilty he deserves to be punished.

2
Spartacus Mills | 20 October 2011 - 8:12pm

Sorry but due to personal experience

it's not always true. I would love to think that it was true. I don't however know anything re the subject matter you refer to.

0
Lunaman | 20 October 2011 - 6:15pm

I'll fill you in

Following Saturday's game between Manchester United and Liverpool Patrice Evra accused Luis Suarez, with whom he'd had a running feud during the game, of calling him a racist word at least 10 times. Suarez denies this.

I won't tell you who plays for whom because it's irrelevant. I just hope whoever's lying is suitably punished.

3
Spartacus Mills | 20 October 2011 - 6:20pm

Thanks

I should have googled it and checked it out but I reacted due to a fairly recent experience. As football is supposed to be pro actively non racist the issue should be dealt with appropriately.

0
Lunaman | 20 October 2011 - 7:35pm

I would question

how much linguistic understanding there can be between an Uruguayan and Frenchman in a noisy Anfield, however I cannot believe that Evra would make something like this up. Both players though have previous, I believe and would be interested to see what the outcome is.

0
Francis Barry-Walsh | 20 October 2011 - 6:44pm

Previous?

In Evra's case, you mean when he accused a Chelsea groundsman a few years ago? I don't think that would influence my view of whether what he has accused Suarez of is true or not. Maybe he just complains about racist abuse more than some others who just figure it's not worth the aggravation to highlight it.

And good luck to him for doing so. If it's proven I hope they throw the book at Suarez.

2
Johan | 20 October 2011 - 8:17pm

Evra does not have previous

There have been two cases where Evra has been involved with claims of racism. Once was the Chelsea groundsman, who was accused of two of the Manchester United staff of racism where Evra, I believe, said he had heard nothing. The other was a case of another opposition player (can't remember who) who was accused by lipreading members of the crowd of the same thing. In this case I believe Evra denied he had heard anything.

There was an excellent post on one of the United blogs where the history of Evra was summed up, and where the author also said you can see in the reaction of the two sets of fans who they want to believe.

The last thing hit home with me, because I remember an incident between Ian Wright and Peter Schmeichel where I absolutely refused to believe Ian Wright. But I am a fan of United.

1
Kjell | 20 October 2011 - 9:29pm

Congratulations

You have just completely ignored one of the fundamental protections of the English justice system, the presumption that someone is innocent until proven guilty.

0
busker_du | 20 October 2011 - 9:01pm

You can't sell papers

or stir up thousands on that basis!!!

0
drilltime | 20 October 2011 - 9:04pm

Accept that point..

.. but if the case isn't proven - doesn't means he isn't guilty.

As a previous poster said ^ this is the 1st time Evra has come out and accused anyone of this - all other incidents were publicised by someone else.

Doesn't matter which team you support, anyone who saw the game will know that something serious went on during the game. Just surprising that Evra didn't raise it with the ref when he had both players together for a bollocking.

1
the mvps | 20 October 2011 - 10:10pm

You clearly don't accept the point

Or you wouldn't have followed it up with all that innuendo.

If Suarez played for Man United and Evra for Liverpool, you'd be supporting Suarez. You seem like that sort of fan - always stinking up football threads with childish ABU stuff.

2
Spartacus Mills | 20 October 2011 - 10:54pm

Nonsense.

Couldn't care less which each player plays for. The issue is a much bigger than individual rivalries.

I'll leave the rest of it unanswered as you are clearly the beacon of well reasoned debate on here. Are you hoping for a rosette this year ?

As a word of advice - I wouldn't assume anything - things make a habit of biting you on the arse later in life.

1
the mvps | 21 October 2011 - 6:51am

Evra

I wouldn't believe a word he said. Suarez, as another poster said, is innocent until proved guilty. Evra seems a particularly objectionable character e.g. his behaviour at the last world cup.

1
wezz | 20 October 2011 - 10:12pm

World Cup

Evra was indeed a total cockwomble at the world cup.

But then so was Suarez for different reasons.

In fact, the only two things I can be sure of is that both men are fantastically-gifted footballers and Grade-A bellends.

3
Spartacus Mills | 20 October 2011 - 10:51pm

Martina Hyde's take on it...

...from today's Guardian is here.

A taster:

In football as in wider society, there are far too many people who claim that the real issue isn't racism, but people making false accusations of racism, just as there are plenty of people who prefer to think that false accusations of rape are more of a problem than rape itself. They aren't.

Deliberately or not, too many miss the big picture, which is that any accusation of racism should be dignified, so that the next person who might have cause to make one sees that a fair hearing is at least a possibility. Naturally, the investigating authorities may find it unproven or malicious. But no incident should be blithely and hastily written off by people not in possession of all the evidence and testimony, but who reckon the accuser may be a wrong 'un.

3
Red Umpire | 20 October 2011 - 11:00pm

I'm not taking sides

in this issue, as it's a 'he said, he said' kind of thing, but I will say that I feel very uncomfortable about a situation in which, because a party 'feels' another party has been racist towards them, that party is judged to have a case.

I've tentatively raised this on here before, but you're just as injured / maimed / dead as a victim of inter-estate violence, inter-family violence, dysfunctional relationship violence, fall-out-of-business-dealings-violence, random-walking-through-the-wrong-part-of-town violence, wearing-the-wrong-football-colours violence, etc. as you are from 'racist' violence.

In any of the above cases, how robust would the defence of 'it is my belief that he was disrespecting me, therefore, legally, he was' be?

0
DougieJ | 21 October 2011 - 12:23am

What is sure is that the obnoxious.....

.....Liverpool/Man. Utd. rivalry is alive and kicking, it's merely taken a brief respite away from dis-respecting the dead and injured of Munich and Hillsborough for a season or two.

Still, at least it was a good game......NOT!

0
ranger | 21 October 2011 - 7:32am

last

30 minutes was pretty good. Up until then it was very poor.

0
paulwright | 21 October 2011 - 7:53am
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