... The Bay City Rollers are still one of the biggest selling acts in Japan. Plus, I understand, The Ramones were influenced by them in terms of "short shouty tunes." I'm not pretending to be a fan or an expert but I wouldn't dismiss them as girly angst.

And in the eighties Simple Minds were competing with U2, possibly right up to Live In The City Of Light. They were filling stadiums for sure. Were they era defining? They shriek "EIGHTIES" to me certainly.

Simple Minds were a huge band in the 80's, but did they define it in the way that, say Duran Duran or Spandau Ballet did, or U2? I think not.

Actually the Minds (as we fans used to familiarise them down to..) are a strange phenomenon, in that they seemed at one point to be truly as huge as U2 - I thinhk they sold out Maine Road in 1990 - but then seemed to deflate quickly to the status of being their own tribute act.

Jim Kerr is due to tout his solo musical stylings in a small Glasgow club this week I think. Canny see Bono doing the same in his home town....

or Marmalade?

was very big in the 80s (although more so in the US). Although I suspect her reputation isn't high in Scotland, seeing as she buggered off to LA as soon as she could.

They are all very worthy and successful acts, but are they Oasis in Britpop? Human League/Heaven 17 in 1981? The Rolling Stones? The Beatles? Joy Division/New Order? the Stone Roses or anyone else from Madchester? Portishead, Massive Attack or Tricky from Bristol in the mid 90s?

No, I would suggest they are not. They are followers, of other peoples groundbreaking success.

allow for the Bristol scene what about The Jesus & Mary Chain or The Cocteau Twins?

Surely as influential

And there is Lonnie Donegan....

Much as it pains me to say it, I don't think that we can exclude the Rollers. They were, after all, one of the few bands to enjoy chart-topping success on both sides of the Atlantic.

And they managed to turn astonishing success into a complete fucking tragedy - what could be more Scottish than that?

Miss Barbara Dickson

Well Mr Barker and Corbett thought she was world class

Are Duran Duran more representative of the eighties than The Smiths? Yes to some people, absolutely not to another. Are Simple Minds? Again if your defination of 80's music is "twats in hats in stadiums" then the only reason they are notera defining seems to be that bigger twats in hats, U2, still walk among us. But Simple Minds didn't follow U2, they were very much contemporaries.

If you are talking cultural impact and success then The Rollers are up there frankly with The Osmonds and Abba (I'm definately not saying in terms of quality)

Is Madchester era defining? Is Britpop? Only if you are born in the UK, the rest of the world didn't give a toss. As for The Beatles and the Stones, demographics, culture, disposable income and a whole pile of things converged around both of them in a way which is unlikely to happen in music again. Is the Trip Hop movement "really" more influential and important than the postcard one? There were really three main Postcard acts and three main trip hop ones.

Certainly as a Scottish chap there were plenty of Scottish acts and movements which meant a huge amount to me personally (and oddly enough I've met a whole load of Americans who revere The Jesus And Mary Chain, The Cocteau Twins and the Chemikal Underground stable). Are they "important?" Don't know. But you seem to be lumping such a lot of fairly disparate elements together in your original point its hard to comment. Sorry old bean.

but then we did have SAHB who were fuckin' great!

and they rock. And are humungously huge.

If, IF Les Harvey had not died so tragically and Jimmy Dewar had not left, STC would have been huge. Sadly 'twas not to be. And yes, we gave the World SAHB... magnificent, unique live band. Pete Townshend once said that following SAHB at Parkhead in 1973 (along with following The James Gang in Cleveland) were two of the most daunting live experiences he ever had.

ancestry? Come to think of it McCartney sounds a bit tartan.

ask the Jock Massive, I'm sure there are plenty of opinions from them 'Saft Southern Jessies' we'd like tae read?

I'd say they were massive in their day.

Altered Images, Hipsway and Texas. Quite a lot of large pop success.

... Robbie, he defines New Year - how much more embedded in the public consciousness can you get!

Midge Ure is worth a mention I think, for "Vienna" (kept off the top spot by Joe Dolce so perhaps not that great ;). )
Also for "do they know it's Christmas?". Not a brilliant piece of music but certainly an era-defining venture.

They define jangly guitar pop. Even if they haven't enjoyed globe-buggering success.

Deacon Blue did alright.

There is also, of course, the mighty Del Amitri.

They absolutely and irrefutably defined ear-bleedingly awful NWOBHM-era cliched rock.

What about Runrig. I've been dragged kicking and screaming to enough of their gigs to know they are/were massive for a time. Even drove up to a gig in Stirling (from Bolton) and back again the same night so daughter could witness new singist. We were overtaken by a coachload of Germans over for the same gig.

*shudders*

- Bert Jansch. Maybe not era-defining, but certainly a huge influence on all the guitarists who trailed in his wake

- Incredible String Band. Still one of the best kept secrets of the sixties.

- The Proclaimers. Aren't they still pretty massive?

- Primal Scream. They pretty much defined post-baggy indie dance-pop, didn't they? Although maybe that was more down to Andrew Weatherall.

- Annie Lennox?

Actually, I see your point. There isn't any truly massive act that has popular appeal AND the critical thumbs up.

I truly cannot take the Rollers seriously, although I can appreciate them as a teen phenomenon. Compare to Abba or Slade: I would be willing to stick my neck out to testify to the songwriting genius of a good few of their songs.

Wharraboot Andy?

They were era-defining, albeit not a particularly cool one. It wasn't just teenage girls buying the records - in "Weird Tales Of The Ramones", they confirm they came up with 'Hey! Ho! Let's Go!' because they wanted a chant song like the Rollers' "Saturday Night".

While Postcard didn't sell a lot of records, they were vitally important as a hipper-than-thou indie that mapped out new territory. Similarly Creation Records - I know Bobby Gillespie isn't the most popular figure here, but Primal Scream led the indie/dance crossover, and Creation (led by another Scot, Alan Mcgee) pretty much defined the indie era .

And if only you'd stuck around another 5 minutes in the Laurieston, we could have had the fully detailed Jock & Roll discussion

Susan Boyle pretty much defines our current pop market, and she's mega huge. She also defines the term "gobsmacking", wouldn't you say? You may not like her, but I didn't see the proviso "whom we all like" in your question.

The Rollers - I remember when they toured Australia in the mid-70's. It was bedlam. My sister couldn't speak for days afterwards, her throat was that sore from screaming; that was brilliant. And Malcolm McLaren had them in mind when he put the Pistols together.

Midge Ure - Vienna defined a time, didn't it? Course it did!

Orange Juice defined a time, their influence lives on. They're the Scottish Velvet Underground. What could be better?

Primal Scream defined a certain time with Screamadelica, no question.

The KLF were huge, brilliant, and the biggest selling singles act in the world in the early 90's. Invented a few genres, all by themselves. Don't they count? On some days I think they were the greatest band that ever half-existed.

You couldn't walk down the street a few years ago without seeing someone in a Franz Ferdinand t-shirt. How much more era definition do you need there?

And yes, AC/DC. The biggest selling album (or is it 2nd biggest?) of all time, and that's not enough, eh?

So stop f***ing moaning, and celebrate!

"...but we've always been second division". My god, the long winter nights must simply fly by...

* I can't see that he had any children, but that's the family legend anyway.

How could I?

They had a some big hits worldwide, sold millions.

But most importantly, they were the first major act to sing in their natural Scottish accents.

They may be uncool (Bobby Gillespie looks after "Cool" - he keeps it in a box), but bloody hell they wrote great songs.

I'm from Leeds. Who have we got? Soft Cell (brilliant), Gang of Four (4 great songs, and only Griel Marcus likes the rest), and the Sisters of Mercy. The tales I could tell of Andrew Eldritch!

Mind you, Leeds did invent Goth. One Saturday lunchtime at le Phonographique as I recollect.

but Nazareth were pretty big in the 70's and were also very popular in the USA and South America. And they were sampled by Xenomania for "Sexy No No No" by Girls Aloud. I would agree the SAHB were brilliant and I still contend that Edwyn Collins invented Morrisey.

This far down and no mention of Big Country, a huge moment in time.

Go look back into the past. If "huge" generally means cracked America, they certainly took that (shortbread) biscuit. And individual members of groups such as Jack Bruce. What about Rod Stewart who would deeply resent any accusation of being the sassenach he sounds.

How big were they ? critically lauded and very popular, not so much now though

One of the biggest bands in the UK in the '90s

in all this who fits the definition perfectly and at the same time shows it to be meaningless. As sge's hugely successful, known world wide, era defining (the resurrection of talent shows and show biz pop music is the biggest story in pop).

But certainly poptastic AND played on Ken Bruce today as an example of the first single owned by many, many people. One of my firsts too.

whose bass and voice grace many great records by Cream, Zappa, Kip Hanrahan and definitely a Scot.

Donovan was quite good too.

The Beano, The Dandy, courtesy of Dundee.

Alan McGee, Creation...might not be a movement, but it was a big force and significant voice.

Of the Haggis persuasion?

Kurt Cobain was from Aberdeen, wasn't he?

Sorry, sorry.

*gets his kilt*

Proper phenomenon in 2004 and though popularity may have waned, i still adore their diy sensibility as seen in their matinee shows for under 18s, end of year annuals and old school fan club. Plus their gig in Princess St Gardens Edinburgh in 2005 with Arcade Fire supporting against the castle backdrop was really special. They even came onstage to the dr who theme. A fantastic pop band!

I don't care how many records she sells, how few people have heard of her, I think she's fabulous and much better than the Rollers, Simple Minds, Big Country, etc...