I have been playing guitar for 32 years now. I was really lucky that I started young and had endless time to play. I've always thought of it as playing, even when it was technically practising - learning scales, modes, chords, different fingerings, timings. I've always encouraged anyone else learning an instrument to have the same idea : you are more likely to make time for 15 minutes play than for 15 minutes practice.

Having said that, I spent most of the first 2 years battering away at the guitar without many underlying concepts, having fun, playing in bands with friends and doing some gigs. Once I learned some music theory, that all became simpler. (If you've still got your guitar, I'd recommend that as an approach - batter away and have some fun!)

On language - getting older has made it easier, in that one thing that held me back when I was younger was the fear of saying the wrong thing. Now I know that if I am in Italy and I can manage to say (in Italian) "Hello, I am Scottish. I am sorry that I do not speak Italian well" before I then ask for whatever it is in Italian, people will generally try hard to understand and help. Same experience in France and Spain - once I have got over my initial fear , there is great warmth for having tried a bit.

That tourist-point-and-smile-with-a-little-"grazie" is obviously a different level from yours, but I speak enough Italian now to be able to get the coffee I want without assistance or upset, and next time we go back I'll have learned more.

So I'd encourage everyone to learn at least enough of the local language where they're going on holiday to be able to ask for "aqua sin gaz" or "cafe con leche" - once you've taken that first step it's a big encouragement to try some more.

I think you are either born with a facility for art/music/writing (insert creative discipline of choice) or not, and if not then all the graft in the world will not lift you above journeyman.

In my case I have often felt that I could have been a photographer - in much the same way Peter Cook felt he could have been a judge except he didn't have the Latin. I think I have a reasonably good eye, but actually translating that to the screen or the print is frustratingly overwhelming, or maybe overwhelmingly frustrating.

Oh, and if it's any consolation (to you, obviously not to me!) I never got much further than 'Knocking On Heaven's Door' on the guitar either!

Well done on sticking in at the Italian as it does show dedication learning something new. I tried piano and guitar lessons when a child but it was just a chore and I gave up. As I was about to be 40 this year I decided to try something new as I felt I would be more dedicated and started saxophone lessons 9 months ago and have thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

I do however think I have hit a plateau and don't think I am improving yet my teacher tells me and anyone else that will listen that he can't believe how far I have come in a short space of time.

I now think we can be too hard on ourselves and should just enjoy what we can do and I agree with elhombremalo above that a 15 minute play is more productive than an hours "practice"

Is, apparently, the length of time it takes to get good at something. To what degree natural aptitude gets involved is another thing. Playing the guitar is a strange one. I always found it easy because I'm very musical but this has only taken me to a pretty basic level of strummery, even after twenty five years, because I couldn't be arsed to practice the tricky stuff which actually takes a little dedication. I suppose the key to any of these things is to start early when the aptitude for learning is there and the potential to clock up the 10,000 hours isn't offset by the prospect of retirement looming before competence is gained.

I worked in a hotel bar 17 years ago where a folk session would happen of a Thursday evening. I was just starting guitar and would sneak a go on the great acoustics that the various members of the band had, battering out shite versions of Alternative Ulster and Needle and the Damage Done.
The session leader, Dick Lavery (RIP) came to me one night and in between ordering pints of stout and whiskey and orange (yes W&O) said: 'Dont be in a rush son, you have all your life to learn.'
He's right. It's not how good you get, but what good you get from it.
Mind, I'm still shite, (assumes Vic & Bob voice) but happy.
Keep at it.

You could have well been writing about me Patrick

about the idea that genius doesn't reallly exist and that it's hard work in many/all cases that matters rather than some inherent gift or whatever.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/nov/15/malcolm-gladwell-outliers-ex...

Actually that extract has 'expired' oddly. Hmm well it's from a book called OUTLIERS by Malcolm Gladwell. There are extracts knocking about.

50% of my job is language teaching and because i had to learn Spanish from scratch i feel the pain of the Students. The one thing that helped me a lot,when learning Spanish, was knowning how a language worked. At first it was really hard but my initial knowledge of English grammar was poor. When that improved,my understanding of Spanish improved dramatically.
The problem with learing the guitar for me was "The Language and grammar" what the hell is the difference between a major chord and a minor chord ? what's a quarter note ? in Open C ? might have well as been nuclear physics for all i knew. I felt like i'd have way too much to learn to get good.
Did all this terminology put anyone off ?

...as said above, to be able to play like SRV or BB King you're going to need 10,000 hours of practise.

Listen to Johnny Cash recorded in Rick Rubin's living room. American Recordings is the name of the album. Just Cash with an acoustic guitar. Some of it actually sounds like it is being played by a beginner.

I'm assuming you're a frustrated beginner Patrick....please forgive me if I've assumed wrong!

I wrote 'The Italian language is beautiful, but not when I use it. My Italian accent is shite.'
Substitute Spanish for Italian and it's welcome to my world.
¿Y tu tambien Archie ?