And I so wish one of them would twat that ghastly, whiny, lippy, ill-mannered, self-centred, ungrateful little shit of a teenage son and tell him who's boss.

Issues, Vulpes?

piece and almost spat museli all over my yoghurt loom! for Chri** sake women get grip and sense of proportion and yes my relative who was a Bevan boy major worry in life was entertaining his kids in international airports.... (We just need 2 more Yorkshire men now !)

"a nation captivated by its accuracy", where the parents never lose patience and snap at the kids. Where bad moods last for 3 seconds and everyone talks to each other. Very accurate.

Under Bunting's hypothesis (which sounds like it should something relating to the gravitational pull of black holes) Friends becomes

A portrait of how the urban experience makes even the young and beautiful realise that the more people surround us, the more we are alone. A devastating study of alienation and the redemptive power of love in late twentieth century America.

The vicar of Dibley:

Contemporary notions of gender equality clash with centuries old theological tradition and feudal patriarchy, and a modern woman's bodily desires of all descriptions do battle with her spirituality.

he's 12.

...up her/his own fundament (as my grandfather used to say). Some of the writing about the American programmes 'du jour' are strong contenders for Pseud's Corner (I don't include The Word in this, of course).

Most of his writing for TV has involved living cheerfully in relatively grim circumstances. I think he always captures this well, even though he must presumably occupy rarefied air space these days.

Ken Loach's Raining Stones captured that grim oop north thing best for me though.

Who says "oop" apart from The Hollywood Argyles?

First of all, I have to say it is a pretty amusing programme, so I shouldn't pick holes. But I will. This is a family of five, parents in their late thirties. As far as I remember, the father is a teacher, not particularly senior, and in the first series the mother was working part-time as a PA. Would they really be able to afford to live in a house of this size in London at their age and on their salaries? It looks like the one Jack Dee's character lives in Lead Ballloon, in which he is a reasonably successful comedian,and his wife is a showbusiness agent - so presumably fairly prosperous.

Any opinions from teachers on this? (I'm not one, but know a few who leave London as soon they have families.)

Terraced house: £779,077
More expensive than Stokie. You have to pay a premium to live near Mark Ellen.

Interesting this, I think. Ken Loach et al are praised for doing gritty realism up north, but someone doing a passable effort about the middle classes down south are given a good kicking.
The buffoon Bunting's thesis aside, there does seem to be a touch of the prolier than thou about this thread.
The characters are essentially a job lot middle class family with everyday concerns, just like an awful lot of 'real' people . What harm to make a sitcom about them?
Surely the issue is whether the show's funny or not?
And lay off Stoke Newington

in fact, it seems to be the most accurate and funny portrayal of a middle income family I can recall coming across across in sitcom (not real life). Yes, the children are rude to their parents but that is why it is called Outnumbered - before the parents can come up with an appropriate response to the latest challenge to their authority, another child has said/done something to distract from that. Andy Hamilton and Guy Jenkin have done a great job in creating this series and I applaud them for it. No idea what that Guardian piece is on about though.

But the Guardian article has something useful to say as well. Buntings key passage is this:

"In this version of family life, every interaction between children and parent is a negotiation and an opportunity for education. Sue and Pete use reason to win over each of their children - 12-year-old Jake, as well as his younger siblings - to bedtimes, curfews and broccoli. Admirable but exhausting. These are parents who want at all times to be loved."

The point she makes is that this is a thankless modus operandi, and it's not the best way for parents to proceed. They are held ransom by their own offspring. Outnumbered, in fact. They may well live in a nice house, hold down nice jobs and all the rest, but they are still the victims of a modern child rearing malaise.

I left the teaching profession aeons ago, and one of the reasons I left was that it seemed, from my side of the room, that the children in front of me each day were increasingly being raised by a generation of parents who couldn't, or wouldn't, take responsibility for raising children with any respect for authority.

I don't know what it's like in Chiswick, but those of my friends who stayed in the profession in this neck of the woods have by and large raised their own children to be polite, well adjusted young people with no attitude problems.

What is more, they and their children are only too well aware of how bloody lucky they have been to do their child raising and growing up years in the last decade or two, after most of the social advances of the twentieth century.

I can't help thinking that if modern parents (copyright Viz mag) are stressed out by their constant need to negotiate with their children, they might reflect on the fact that a household works best as an absolute dictatorship, where the adults are in charge, and the children damn well do as they are told.

Of course, that status quo demands effort to establish and maintain, but I'd bet it's a lot less stressful on balance than negotiating with 12 year olds.

A child is not an equal partner in this (and shouldn't be). Give them some reasonable-sounding choices but as the adult, you set the perameters and can generally run rings round the little blighters. Mwwah hahh!

..allow me to offer this.

Some kids are biddable, some are not. The sanctions that might work on one don't begin to work on another.

Imposing discipline is really, really, really hard. "Tricks" might work once but they don't work again.

Am I missing something?

Trust me, they are. They're smart, they're devious, they know how to get to you & they never let up for a second. I quite admire mine's capacity for casual cruelty. A recent vignette :

Me (15th time of asking) : Emily, for God's sake tidy this room
Emily (smiling sweetly) : In Japan, men wear bras. Shall I get you one for Christmas?

I have six children aged from 2 to 22. I don't want to talk about it.

However, to return to the vague theme of this ungrateful-middle-class-twats-on-tv business, did anyone have the ill fortune to witness Mr William Harcourt-Cooze's "Perfect Christmas"?

I'm not a violent man, but... (insert nasty deed of choice here).

Why is the fool on television? Who's responsible? Can we REALLY have such an appetite for the tom-fooleries of these hand-woven, Cath Kidston-mainlining bleeding IDIOTS!!!!!!

PLEASE! (splutter, etc)