{stands well back...]

because I am an ex-smoker. I would say probably 1 and half stone heavier in 7 years but maybe I would have put that on anyway. Just think smoking is really old fashioned now. Quitting smoking is easy if you want to do it.

I don't know about fat people. A section of popular culture seems to hate the very idea of anyone carrying a bit extra, but mostly I'd say those of us of a more rubicund aspect are more or less treated OK.

That said, I think being a slightly salad-dodging chap is easier than being an equivalently rubenesque lady. At least blokes aren't bombarded *quite* as much with beauty-related messages as our ladyfolk. But that's true regardless of body shape: it seems to me that women are constantly being told what is and isn't beautiful and why they don't measure up. It must be pretty horrible if you let it get to you.

I've spent the day in London and like to walk around the city, so I've walked miles. Almost all of it in the trailing clouds of various people's disgusting cigarettes. I don't hate them, just wish I didn't have to share in their "right" to smoke.

I think smokers are a pretty reviled group. To non-smokers it's a horrible habit although I don't think the feelings are anywhere near as strong as they used to be as we're not exposed to the discomfort as much these days. Fat people? Well I think they're ignored or looked down on, rather than hated. If being fat was seen as a disability then they would certainly be catered for better than today.

But never had a problem with smokers either. I am overweight, but I can't say I've faced any 'hatred' because of it. I get tons of exercise but eat like a pig.

I think Bob makes a valid point about societal pressure on women to live up to an impossible ideal. I've just seen a trailer for a new fly-on-the-wall series following the life of Tamara (daughter of Bernie) Ecclestone.

She's a beautiful, expensively attired model with a £45m house and a billionaire father, yet many women will no doubt compare themselves with her and, of course, come up short.

The Doctor told to just smoke after a meal.

Before I knew it, I was down to 40 meals a day.

Smokers are now reviled as polluters of our personal space. The smoking ban seems to have been welcomed by one and all and the concept of going bck to the old ways would horrify most of us. But smokers are, ultimately, the victims of their own habit and pay handsomely into the exchequer to cover the cost of their healthcare prior to their early deaths.

The obese are not polluters, but they are consumers of resources in the same way as smokers. Unpaid for resources. The dietary sources of obesity (principally high sugar foods) should be heavily taxed to cover this disparity.

I don't hate smokers, it's entirely their choice, but I do hate breathing in cigarette smoke (my feeble asthmatic lungs don't take it very well).

I have a friend who is hugely overweight and she gets cat-calls in the street and all sorts of unpleasant behaviour from strangers. Terrible that people feel they have the right to pass judgement on someone they don't know.

As Bob says, it's pretty crappy being female sometimes. You do get an awful lot of pressure to look a certain way. I didn't wear make-up for nearly 20 odd years (it was my own small rebellion), but have started wearing a little bit of the stuff recently. And you know what? It feels alright. Woo.

It's terrible that heavier people and smokers are subject to discrimination. Prejudice is just plain wrong and can surely have no place in any decent 21st century society.

We are all created equal and should be accorded equal rights, opportunities and respect.

The only exception I would make would be for Sagittarians. They are the undisputed dregs of the zodiac. Sub-human scum, the lot of them.

Well I'm going to give it to you. (©Sid James)

First up: Smoking.
I've never been a big smoker. Well, I'm big, and I'm a smoker, but you know what I mean...
I've had many years when I've not smoked at all. Technically, I am classed as a 'trivial' smoker. At the moment, I smoke when I go to the pub (which isn't very often). I've always associated smoking with drinking. I don't think I should be hated for having a few fags outside a pub in the fresh air, out of the way of others who don't wish to inhale the evil fumes. There is definitely hatred felt for smokers, particularly from ex-smokers, which makes me a little annoyed. I saw one friend of mine really lay into someone for going outside to have a cigarette. He was utterly blind to his own hypocrisy, as for many years in his younger days he used to work in a tiny, cramped office where he used to chainsmoke from 9 to 5.

Second: Fat people.
I don't think society actually 'hates' fat people, but I do think people can be very judgemental about it. Assumptions are made about fat people being lazy or greedy. This can, of course, be true. But it can be hard to swallow when it comes from those whose wallets and personal circumstances give them the time and opportunity to take advantage of personal fitness trainers and gym memberships.

I'm a big biffa and have been various sizes on the biffa scale over the years, depending on my levels of enthusiasm for Chubby Checking (which has waned recently, unlike my waistline).

I eat too much of the wrong foods, and I don't exercise enough. But I love food, I love the social aspects of meeting up with friends and family for some lovely grub. This doesn't make me a bad person.

But, even though I'm a reasonably sensible woman, who believes in not judging others by their appearance, my own confidence levels do tend to correlate with my weight. It's ridiculous, and I hate the idea of trying and failing to conform to society's pressure to be slim, but it's almost impossible for a woman not to absorb and react to this pressure. It's not just about that, of course, because you do feel healthier and more energised if you do more exercise and eat more healthily. But the pressure is there. The idea that someone is not attractive if they are overweight. And the pressure is FAR greater on a woman.

I'd hate to be a fat girl at school today, surrounded by stick-thin girls who live on fresh air, and who get all the attention from boys who would never dare go out with a chubby lass.

I'm very lucky in that I fell in love with a man who didn't give a hoot how heavy I am, and who tells me I'm beautiful whether the scales are groaning, or breathing a sigh of relief at me. Mind you, I think it helps that I've got big tits.

When you live an utterly meaningless life as a wage slave, in a pointless job where your creativity is subordinated to organisational or financial goals, you're saddled with debt (student loan, mortgage, car loan, credit cards) and with the need to save (for a pension to avoid eating cardboard when you're 73, even though annuity rates will be even more dismal by that point) then you're going to take it out on someone. So you take it out on fat people, smokers, gingers, short-arses and the Welsh. And while you stand at the bar, sipping your mass market lager, you are just grateful for the fact that you are not fat, smelly, ginger, short or Welsh. Because those kinds of people are not properly human - they're freaks. And you're not a freak. You're normal and that makes you feel safe.

since between them they probabaly make up a majority* but they definitely make easy targets (writes an overweight non-smoker). We (i.e. that 'society' bunch) are always looking for someone to look down on, particularly when it involves an activity that can be 'controlled'.

I hate smoking, but my opinion of the smoker in question will depend on other factors. I loathe being overweight, but I'm not sure how that affects people's view of me.

*No research and minimal thought went into this statistic.

But I don't go bangin' on about people who are overweight, drive cars like maniacs, gamble so all their money is gone or treat their partners like they were a piece of shit. It's life, in all its dirty filthy glory, unfortunately. Some are hurt, some do the hurting. As long as you think you're part of the former and lead what you believe to be a reasonably decent life, despite your faults, then we must go on until the devil drags us down. Pip pip!

people with red/ginger hair.

Apparently it's perfectly acceptable to hate them as well these days.

After a truly crap day yesterday and with yet another truly crap day to come I must say I find it an absolute delight to find that the spirit of live and let live is alive and kicking on this site. Well done to those few brave souls that are still in touch with their humanity enough to realise that they are not some sort of living saint simply because they do not smoke or indeed enjoy food & drink.
I don't think there are many of you who would approve of me, I smoke, I drink, I used to take drugs, I'm not that tall, I'm half Welsh and live in Wales, I am not in full time paid employment because I chose to give up working to care for my elderly parents so I'm also one of the undeserving poor and I am bald and wear specs. I probably smell too.
I used to love this site and still hold many of it's participants in the highest regard but I think it's time I got my coat.

and make jokes about.

In times gone by, the 'them' might have been the next tribe, the adjacent nation, the Normans, the Jewish, the Germans, West Indian immigrants, Asian immigrants...

As societal pressure and/or legislation made it unacceptable to pick on each group as 'them', a smaller group has emerged that, for the time being, it's socially acceptable to poke fun at. If 'them' is currently the Welsh, redheads, the overweight or smokers, it'll be something else in a few years.

To pre-empt the inevitable joke, I love Them

As pointed out above, we all need someone on whom to take out all our frustrated rage at our own impotence and weakness, but it's getting harder to choose your scapegoat as we realise our hate is unjustified in almost all cases.

The only targets left, I suppose, are people who know their behaviour upsets or threatens others, yet continue to do it. Which pretty much limits us to terrorists, despots, smokers and BMW drivers.

is that there are lots of little things that people do that get on my tits. To be honest, being overweight isn't one of them and smoking outside of pubs and restaurants isn't one either. I do find it tiresome when I'm going into or out of a pub and there is a bunch of people hanging in the doorway having a chat. But these aren't always smokers so I don't really see it as a smoking related nuisance. It's the same as people stopping at the top of escalators to extend the handle in their case on wheels, as getting into lifts before the people getting out are out and people pushing in at queues. These are traits of rude people not of specific types. And I do my level best to ignore them because life is too short and I want to stay happy and not get into arguments.

I welcome the smoking ban as it means I smoke less, but it's a huge pain in the arse really. It does break up the party.

People get offended by smokers, have done for years. They walk by you coughing into their hands like Windscale has just melted down. It makes me want to blow the smoke right in their face if I'm honest.

America's worse. You could run around with a gun and no one would bat an eye, but get your fags out and it's like a Bateman cartoon.

I've been off the fags now for exactly 4 weeks and 3 days. So all this talk of smoking is making me want to spark up. Cheers!

I think the main people our society hates is the poor. And it's encouraged by the government, the media and the advertising industry.

"Embarrassed by your old phone?"

General motors ran an advert recently with the slogan 'Reality sucks'. The photo was of a lad on a bicycle* shielding his face from a girl in a car smirking at him. But it's okay! Because GM are now offering a special credit deal on their cars for students, so you needn't ride a bicyle like a scumbag! Don't get laughed at, get into debt!

* Incidentally, the bicyle in question was a vintage road bike, which is INFINITELY cooler than a big plastic soft-roader. He'd be fighting off the clunge with a stick.

but I support their cause, especially over the 8 persons or less signs in lifts

I get a bit down about my weight but then I have a cake and feel better

I never have but my Dad smoked and my sister still does.

Then I left home and found myself sharing a house with 2 friends both of whom had tabs on the gan from the crack of dawn. (She didn't seem to mind...)

So I have a tolerance for it. And something of a puzzelment as to why I've never been tempted to try.

Possibly it's because I'm 'big-boned' and my pleasure and comfort receptors are triggered by glucose, sucrose and Creme Eggsose rather than bitter nicotine. Is it bitter? I don't know.

Tolerance of smoke but not a lot for myself and my physical state. If you've ever seen me you'll be aware I am still overweight after a reasonably steady and sensible attempt to lose weight. At 5ft 9 or 10 I was over 16 stone in weight about 7 years ago. Not vast but definitely obese. I looked and felt absolutely terrible.

I did well for a good couple of years and slimmed down (relatively)but lifestyle and habit have meant I still carry the extra stone and a bit that means I'm not at my 'ideal' weight for my height. It's never been adequately explained whose idea of ideal this is but I think I can surmise it's part of the overall drive for idealised norms of attractiveness and acceptability. That and medically proven guidance on health benefits (ahem...) *shoots self in foot*

God, I've lost my thread now and have become unsure of the point I was trying to make. Look, I'm a morning person and I'm slumping round about now. I'm off for a Twix.

That's why I drink....

Every time I look in the mirror, I think I am fat & ugly.

I also hate dust, mold, fresh paint, strong chemicals and aerosols. Even more than that, I hate having severe asthma. It's a lot easier to go out these days since the law has changed fortunately, I was really struggling with pubs/gigs etc because of it, many places I simply couldn't visit. Some friends were understanding, though unfortunately there were always a sizable number who "had a mate with asthma who smoked" so I must have been making it up. They probably still think I am.

However, as long as they don't do it around me, then it's up to them and that's it. I have sympathy for those trying to quit as I'm sure for many it's very very hard to do. It's pretty unpleasant when someone smells strongly of it and I'm not sure they realize this, but it's actually rather unpleasant when someone smells strongly of pretty much anything! Ever stood next to someone wearing far too much perfume? It even makes those without asthma choke!

If you saw me today you would think I hadn't a weight issue (and in physical terms I haven't). But having once been 21 stone (now 12-13) the daily, hourly checks I go through, pinching a fold here, checking my profile in the mirror there, is more than anyone in 'society' can throw at me.
I will have a psychological issue with my weight until my dying day. It's got nothing to do with what others think of me but what I think of myself. I accepted being fat at the time because I convinced myself I wasn't and now all I see now I am slim is whatever fat there there is.
So go, drink, smoke, eat, run whatever makes you happy, just make sure that down the line your choices aren't going to fuck with your head like they do with me.

I am both impressed and inspired...

pint n pie?

pint n pie?

"They say that blondes have more fun
I guess that brunettes have too
But if you you want to get down and dirty,
Only a redhead will do..."
True dat... trust me, this I know.....

it just occurs to me that if the bloke at the next desk wasn't one, he wouldn't have to spend all day hawking up his lungs and trying to clear his sinuses through his eardrums.

I'm fucked, aren't I?