Entertainment For Lively Minds
OK, we admit that one didn’t quite work
In a moment of blinding honesty an artist will sometimes admit that one of their more ego-driven projects went off a little half-cock.
More than once I’ve heard David Gilmour confess that Atom Heart Mother “didn’t quite work” and Ry Cooder has often distanced himself from his 1978 Jazz album in the most vitriolic terms. Macca has also hinted that a few of his albums (Press springs to mind) do not represent his best work and, likewise, Gallagher the elder was later heard to mutter something about Be Here Now possibly not being all it was cracked up to be after all.
Now, I love Jazz and Atom Heart Mother and was more than a little dispirited to see the artists all-but disowning them (while not, I note, also offering a refund).
Which other artists have admitted that one or more of their albums was a terrible mistake?
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Elvis Costello
On a CD reissue of Goodbye Cruel World is the salutation "congratulations you have just purchased our worst album".
Interesting comments about it on EC website
http://www.elviscostello.com/#/records-detail///Columbia+Records+/Elvis+...
It's a good job EC reissues his albums so much...
On the next Goodbye Cruel World reissue EC discusses how he had put "Congratulations..." on the previous sleeve note and came to regret it when someone asked him to sign a copy of the album. All for the reasons that we're discussing here: he felt that he shouldn't undermine someone's right to enjoy the record. (I think that's the gist, I haven't read the sleeve notes in a few years)
Elvis's Problem
Elvis's problem is that he's a fan too so he understands. Good for him to admit a failing in print.
I know it's not an album but he's always made a point of pretty much dismissing Party Party as well... but I quite like that song as well.
EBTG
In his lengthy odcast interview a Ben Watt dismissed "The language of life" and "Worldwide" as being pretty dreadful. Which is a shame as I really like them. So Ben and I will have to agree to disagree on that!
Atom Heart Mother
is one of my absolute Floyd Favourites. Waters' quote was something along the lines of "I'm embarrassed by it". He and Gilmour are with the music critics on this, leaving only the fans to enjoy it. The perceived wisdom is that it's in some way "pretentious", which seems irrelevant. It's just beautiful, imaginative, and mildly experimental music. "Didn't quite work," Dave? Works for me. Every time.
Gilmour's view
was expressed thus: "I listened to that album recently: God, it's shit, possibly our lowest point artistically."
Personal preferences aside, if you look at the Floyd's development post-Syd and pre-Echoes, Waters and Gilmour know that Atom Heart Mother is the sound of a band still searching for a direction. For them, it's the equivalent of listening to a recording of yourself when you were 20 and being reminded how naive you were.
AHM live
Didn't Dave Gilmour play this recently as guest with a band and orchestra that featured Ron Geesin?
AHM
You've piqued my interest. I love the Floyd and used to have this on vinyl but no longer own a copy. I must reacquire it and reaquaint myself because I used to really like it. About 40 years ago...
The main AHM suite
taking up side one of the LP is quite magnificent, especially the brass and choir sections which are by turns, uplifting and a little scary.
I saw Floyd premiere AHM at a free concert in Hyde Park in July 1970 (3 months before the LP was released) and despite Gilmour's misgivings it really was a memorable experience for those in the audience.
Side two, however, which consists of odd ditties and painfully self-conscious stuff (eg Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast), I can take or leave.
To use a record reviewer’s cliché, though, side one is worth the price of admission alone.
Agree
Just listened to the whole thing on YouTube. You're quite right, the main theme is magnificent, and has a lot of interesting instrumentation and atonality you don't get much in the later albums. One for the Fopp list I think.
Another great section
is when all the various preceding themes start playing over the top of each other toward the end, then we hear a voice saying "silence in the studio" and the main theme comes back in to take it to the end.
But what about...
....Ummagumma? I could have understood it if he'd disowned that album. I remember saving up to buy that back in the day and what a load of unfocussed, pretentious bollocks it was. Could I have my money back please?
Quite agree.
'Umma' ( and, indeed 'Gumma' )is/are the worst Floyd album(s) ever. Much worse than the cow album.
'Several species' of furry wotsits 'gathered together' in a cave indeed.....pah.
Makes Topographic Oceans look like Northern Soul.
Yup.
Agreed. AHM is a far better piece of work than Ummagumma, the studio sides of which ARE the lowest point that the band reached in the studio. I listened to the live sides a lot back in the day. Now, if I want the Floyd in *that* mode I'll listen to "Saucerful".
I like both U and G..!
I did post this on the 'Only Albums that You Rate' thread (and attracted a couple of agreeing comments, if memory serves), but I always liked this, especially the live album. OK, probably not their 'best', but i just love its' quirkiness and experimentation on the studio tracks. Definitely better that the bloody Wall anyway....
UmmaGumma
I listened to it recently and really enjoyed it. Brought a lot of emotions back from my teens! On crackly vinyl too. The first album particularly is excellent - "Careful with that axe Eugene" etc. "Grantchester meadows!. Rick Wright's track and and Nick's dumb drum solo I can live without.
"Makes Topographic Oceans look like Northern Soul."
Up.
Brilliant juxtaposition that caused tea spit.
Love to see Don Varner or Gloria Jones doing 'The Revealing Science of God"
.
Dawn of light SHO NUFF lying between silence and soul sources
Rick Wakeman
"Tales from Toby's Graphic Go Kart", I think he called it.
Where were you
when I needed back-up on this thread? ;-)
http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/the-death-prog-rock
And there's also the album
And there's also the album (and tour) with every ex-Yes member the could cram in the studio (and on stage) which he refers to as "Onion" - because every time he hears the record it just makes him cry.
Probably
listening to Toppo in all it's glory. You see, I love it.
Lame Dame
Bowie has generally been pretty frank about the 'Tonight/Never Let me Down' career low point.
Human League
During "Dare"'s ubiquity (30 years ago - eek!), I think it was Smash Hits who asked Phil Oakey if he'd recommend any of the pre-Dare-League's records to new fans, and IIRC his word-for-word answer was ""Reproduction" has its moments, but I hate "Travelogue", I think it's a terrible record," which disappointed me, as I loved "Travelogue", still do in fact!
Suede - New Morning
Brett A's sleevenote in the current reissue implies that it shouldn't have been made. Crikey.
More seriously, in JW Lennon's last conversation with George Martin the scouse rascal simply said that the whole of the HJHs recorded output was useless and ought to be recorded all over again. Surely that tops everything?
ANM
As someone who loved suede back in the day, A New Morning was so horrendous to me when it came out that I pretty much couldn't listen to their records again until this year. I still can't listen to the whole thing.
Suggs out of Madness
has referred to the "Mad Not Mad" album as a "polished turd".
I can't see why. I reckon it's pretty good. "Yesterday's Men", "Uncle Sam", "Burning The Boats". There's plenty of decent stuff on there. Not turd-like at all, as far as I'm concerned.
True and true. He was similarly dismissive of "Keep Moving"
which is even better. "Prospects", "Michael Caine", "One Better Day"... it's top.
Maybe Suggs is remembering the process of making them
rather than considering the finished product?
Perhaps they were the result of endless hours in the studio, intra-band arguments, a lack of commitment from one or more musicians, differences of opinion with the producers, record company pressure, etc, etc meaning that, for Suggs, they weren't remembered fondly.
Not just Sir Graham: Woody was particularly scathing.
He isn't on Mad Not Mad at all. It's all machines.
Replacing Woody with an 80s drum machine is like replacing Maria Callas with a Speak and Spell. Well, not quite, but you get the piccie.
Apparently, Feist is already regretting the way she sequenced
Metals.
I doubt it.
.
We're the Beta Band and we're nice and clean
The Beta Band famously derided their own official debut album as being a stinker. Oddly the album it most reminds me of is Atom Heart Mother. When I first bought it, I had to check if it was on Harvest. Certainly an eccentric record, but far from a disaster.
Jeff Beck
He hates his biggest hit, the Mickie Most produced wedding disco staple Hi Ho Silver Lining.
He has however started to play it live recently after decades of trying to pretend it never happened.
The Beta Band debut
The John Barry sampling, It's Not Too Beautiful is still as enigmatic as it ever was. Great track!
XTC's Andy Partridge previously didn't used rate the first two XTC albums too highly. 'When I hear them now in company, it's like someone is passing round embarrassing baby photos of me naked on a rug'
He's also a bit dismissive of the final album, Wasp Star, saying the quality noticeably dipped after the majesty of Apple Venus. I kind of see what he means but they're are enough tracks that can stand proudly shoulder to shoulder with older XTC material. The Wheel And The Maypole is one of his finest moments. Pure filth.
Wasp Star
I prefer it to Apple Venus, but hey, what do I know?
Partridge may have that opinion due to most of the songs being demo'd around the time of Oranges and Lemons, according to drummer Pat Mastelotto, as I recall reading in one of the DGM website diaries. He was having to dig into stuff that had been around for a while.
This backs up Stimpy's point earlier, where it's often more about the artists circumstances than the work itself.
Wasp Star
is a great pop album in the same way that Apple Venus is a pastoral peach. Andy is just a miserable sod at times.
Didn't Francis Rossi
Say he didn't like the Piledriver/Hello/Quo albums much because of the production (or whatever). If true, he is wrong.
Freddie apologised for Hot Space?
I recall an article in one of the inkies about the crowd at a festival booing a song from that album (possibly Body Language), which prompted Freddie to say onstage that it was just one album and they can't always get it right - or something along those lines.
Robin Guthrie
used to dismiss all the early Cocteau Twins stuff. He may not now.
John Martyn
wasn't very pleased with Solid Air. He said he hated his vocals on it - both his performance and how it was engineered. He said that as the years went by, he grew to like it, and because of the endless praise he had to concede that it wasn't as bad as he thought.
Phil Collins didn't like "And Then There Were Three" - thought it was too over-produced.
Ry Cooder
brutally honest as always, speaking about his 1978 LP Jazz:
“I regard that album as a wretched mistake, a brief ugly interlude. It was not directional, nor was it even well-considered or well-executed, and I hate it, but having done the damn thing, I was stuck with it, and I had to accept full responsibility, which I did, and take everybody’s barbs and criticisms, which were all justified, I’m sure, and get on, because that damned thing was a dead end if ever there was one.”
Strong words indeed. Ry went on to say how he’d already forgotten how to play the Bix Beiderbecke material on the album and called it a “pompous, overblown mistake”.
All of which is a shame because I (and lots of other people I've spoken to) really like the Jazz album, not least because it introduced me to the music of Joseph Spence (as well as Bix Beiderbecke) and that has to be A Good Thing, doesn’t it?