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OK, so it's a geeky question but whatever happened to...

Trevor_Raggatt's picture

...track index marks on CDs?

This thought popped into my head the other day when I was feeding CDs into the computer for inclusion on the old iTunes. I was popping in a couple of classical CDs and Turn of a Friendly Card by the Alan Parsons Project. It suddenly occurred to me that, on my first ever CD player, a lovely and late lamented old Rotel, which I bought around about 1988 or so these very discs had several long tracks which were split into sub-tracks by index marks.

Of course that meant that, for example, on a concerto (where one concerto = one track) you could jump to a particular movement you wanted to hear by selecting an index point within the track. Same with the Alan Parsons Proj album where "side one" was now just one long track. Every single CD player I've had since that old Rotel (including newer Rotels) and all the various PC based players I've ever used seem to omit that very useful feature.

The irony is that there's a very similar feature on some Radio 4 comedy series I've downloaded as audiobooks where they are one long track with chapters for each episode.

Never thought about this index feature for goodness knows how many years but, of course, now I've remembered its past existance I keep thinking about just how useful it might be... Maybe I need to get out more!

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oh blimey yes

I'd completely forgotten about them. They were handy...

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Hannah | 28 June 2008 - 8:09pm

Moved to DVD

I'm not sure if CD player manufacturers went off them because hardly anyone were using them on CDs, or if CD manufacturers didn't use them on CDs much because hardly any CD players could use them.

They were used a lot in radio for having multiple adverts and things on one track of a CD - a CD can only have 99 tracks on it (which isn't much when one track might only be 15 seconds) but each track can have 99 index points.

Obviously someone thought they were useful because they use chapters with index markers on DVDs now to do scene selection.

I occasionally use them on the audio drama plays (released on CD) which I've been working on lately but I haven't heard anything about people actually realising that they are there.

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Dr Yang | 29 June 2008 - 11:54am

Trivia question

Do you know why the first CDs were 72 minutes long? No Googling!!

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Twangothan | 29 June 2008 - 12:40pm

It was ...

...so that someone important at Sony could listen to a piece of classical music without having to change the disc. I can't remember what the music was though.

I did my dissertation on the history of audio recording and the long-term storage of audio media, which is why I have all these pointless facts at my fingertips but probably can't remember what I had for dinner last week.

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Dr Yang | 29 June 2008 - 10:02pm

Choral

It was because the head of Sony wanted to be able to listen to the whole of Beethoven Symphony No.9 without having to switch discs, or turn a tape over. And - although the exact length varies by a few minutes depending on tempi - his favourite version clocked in at 72 minutes. No Google necessary, ayethangyew!

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Paul Vincent | 30 June 2008 - 8:32am

Urban myth

The story sounds good, but is not true.

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LOUDspeaker | 30 June 2008 - 9:35am

As I understand it

The makers wanted a disc about the same width as an ordinary cassette, because its compact size had proved so popular. Combine this disc diameter with the sampling rate and bit resolution they settled on, and 72 minutes became the maximum CD length almost by default - it was all they had room for.

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Fraser Lewry | 30 June 2008 - 9:46am

OK, so...

...why didn't they stick with the prototype, which had a diameter of 11.5cm, and a maximum playing time of 60 minutes? Although there's never been a clear attribution to Sony president Norio Ohga, neither has there ever been any other satisfactory explanation why the diameter was increased to 12cm, with the corresponding increase in playing time. It's not an urban myth, it's simply unproven. But there's evidence to support the theory.

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Paul Vincent | 30 June 2008 - 10:10am

Found an attribution!

On the Philips website, of all places. I think this clinches the "Not an urban myth" standpoint:

http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/optrec/beethoven.html

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Paul Vincent | 30 June 2008 - 10:17am

Alternatively

The lead engineer on the CD project says "you should not believe" such stories. He may, of course, have his own agenda, but the Beethoven's 9th story does sound like perfect marketing spin, true or not.

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Fraser Lewry | 30 June 2008 - 10:26am

Ever worked in industry, Fraser?

My instinctive inclination towards believing the Beethoven anecdote has something to do with the number of times I've seen mounds of carefully-gathered technical data, and meticulously researched evaluation exercises, brushed to one side by senior management who decide to just go with their gut feeling. So it certainly rings true that the final decision on diameter was made via a whim of the company president. Mere engineers don't tend to be privy to such "real" reasons for decisions, so that lead engineer's viewpoint isn't surprising. To believe otherwise would offend his engineer's sensibilities!

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Paul Vincent | 30 June 2008 - 10:42am

No industry experience

The reasons you list are why I referred to the engineer as having his own agenda. I'm not dismissing the anecdote.

Snopes, which is usually good on this kind of thing, says the source of the default length is undetermined.

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Fraser Lewry | 30 June 2008 - 12:07pm

That's about right

Let's just be glad the president of Sony wasn't a Ramones fan!

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Paul Vincent | 30 June 2008 - 12:10pm

(Unrelated)

Nice Mick Fleetwood article in R'n'R, Trevor

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Retropath2 | 17 November 2008 - 3:25pm
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