Great podcast this week. I really enjoyed the discussion about the changes in recording technology over the years. I'm pleased that you referred to the BBC having a crappy transistor radio to listen to the mixdown on to check how it heard on the medium of their target audience.

Do you reckon Girls Aloud's producers mix their tracks through the speaker of a mobile phone? Cos that's how the yoof of today listen to stuff these days.

...wasn't a complete failure. They did have Mungo Jerry.
I'll get my coat.

...was the cause of my first ever audible, public, podcast-related snort of laughter.

I also listened to my iPod through the stereo of a Vauxhall Astra. For two and a half years. Not any more.

Just a coupla things:

1. I think the reason there is a difference between the Police and Girls Aloud tracks is because of mastering or specifically a lack of remastering on the Police track, not inferior production values. The difference between pre-and post-digital recordings is huge and it happens a lot when you listen to old CDs and fail to adjust the volume.

2. DH: "albums making people feel ill" - I find that the second Arcade Fire album makes me feel uncomfortable to the point that I can't sit through it all.

3. Maroon 5. A fascinating YouTube link, thanks. Interesting that while they were all agreeing "song not good enough" none of the band mentioned the terribly ordinary lyrics.

I think we need to remember we're talking about pop records here - where cynical recording and mastering processes may well be the norm to bang out marketable product. I don't think "all" musicians are lazy - I think learning to play an instrument at all attests to that. And actually, a non-musician with a sequencer, auto tune etc would not produce a good sounding record - at best they'd produce something sounding repetitive and boring. There are still great singers and players out there making music by all getting in a room and playng together. I'm pretty sure Chris Thule (for example) doesn't play a bunch of random mandolin tracks into Protools for some technician to paste together into an album. I think what was discussed was the extreme the cynical biz now goes to to make pop records.

There has always been the process of compiling (or comping) a good part out of several takes (I was shocked to discover this includes the guitar solo on "Money" by the Floyd, for example), and splicing different parts on tape together, but this a process of artistic choice making and is quite different to a "can't be arsed" paste it together approach as described in the 'cast. Which of course explains why bands who record like this can't play live without a click track, laptop, drummer in headphones etc etc. But there are plenty of people who can actually play both in the studio and live, and they are the ones worthy of more than a few days of attention.

What I find strange is that the pages of Record Collector magazine carry (or used to carry) ads for the original albums on Dawn / Vertigo / Deram for the sort of prices that you could buy a small car for. They are expensive because of their rarity. They are rare because they were rubbish in the 1st place and so only a handful were pressed.

Excellent 'cast, the best for some good long while.

Re the idea of playing a rough mix through the radio of a Vauxhall Astra heading up the M6, I wonder if this is something you've ever considered doing with the podcast before sending it out for our listening enjoyment. The sound balance is still abysmal - guys, how hard can it be?

I noticed towards the end of the podcast, when the conversation turned towards the "I thought they would be huge but.." thread, Mark Ellen mournfully admits he put Strawberry Switchblade on the cover of Smash Hits. I would direct Mr Ellen to have a gander at the tracklisting on the OST CD to Shane Meadows' BAFTA award winning fim "This Is England." He might be pleased to know that the soundtrack features "Since Yesterday" by Strawberry Switchblade alongside several reggae and ska classics. So, Mr Ellen, I posit that you were merely ahead of your time.

Incidentally, Rose McDowell of Strawberry Switchblade has been a member of apocalyptic folk band Current 93 for the last 20 years. The band is led by David Tibet, former music journalist and the man credited as discovering Antony of Antony & The Johnsons fame who won the Mercury Music Prize a couple of years ago. So it's not as if she's working on the checkout in Asda these days or anything

...is a fascinating man. I was reading his article in WORD last week and when I got to the part where he mentions the Buena Vista Social Club album being a recording of a room, I actually stood up. This isn’t a euphemism for me becoming sexually aroused – what I mean is that I unconsciously rose to my feet and then paced around the house for a few minutes, with the magazine in my hand, while I assimilated this awesome new concept.

Writing as someone whose sole experience of making music was an attempt to play an electric guitar, while unknowingly holding it upside-down, it’s magic realism like this that justifies my belief in good music as a mysterious and elusive force of nature.

Am I the only one who thinks that the newly Christened ‘Cackling Mark Ellen’ should be carving out a career for himself as an old-style rhythm and blues artist?

It was a great podcast this week. I particularly liked the discussion on how records are tweaked and massaged. Whilst I agree with all your comments, I have to say your podcast would probably benefit from a good 'seeing to' by Protools, Ultramaximizer or one of their ilk.

I play the podcast in the car and at times it's almost unlistenable. Quiet, LOUD, quiet, very quiet, LOUD. This begs the question, what does your 'engineer', Mat Hall, actually do?

Don't like to moan about a great freebie, but the sound issue is driving me bonkers.

I only ever listen to the cast in the car, as it's guaranteed to wash away the workday blues and let me walk through the front door with a smile on face.

As someone who has spent the last few months catching up on all the old casts I think there has been a marked drop in volume levels in the more recent issues compared with earlier efforts.

Please get it sorted and make a middle aged man happy

Have you considered recording the podcast with Pro Tools, eq'ing the room, adding compression to equalise messrs Hepworth and Ellen's expostulations, autotuning the guest to fit in with the tonal quality of the rest of the team and then adding a bit of reverb to give it that 'live' sound, possibly processing it through a plugin slapback vintage program while you're at it? You could dub on the applause from Live at The Budokan while you're at it...
Fond Regards
Skirky

...the sound is better than it was but there's still room for improvement. It's gone from a C- to a B. But, it's still worth the occasional struggle as the content is usually so good.

I listen in the car or via headphones on the train depending where my work takes me. In the car I frequently have to 'rewind' the 'cast, turn up the volume and listen again before turning it down sharpish. (An activity that's probably worth 3 points and a £60 fine these days!) I used to have to do that via headphones too, but not anymore.

...and opened the Guardian only to find their obit for the late Teo Macero - as just mentioned by D as having died this week.

A bad few days for notable figures in music passing away. Only the day before was reading the Guardian's full page obit of - a rather different influential figure - Larry Norman, who also died this week.

I enjoyed that Podcast very much.

I suppose the thing with pop music is whether you want to record a studio construct or a representation of a live performance. Obviously there is overlap between the two but when you start trying to make a studio construct sound as if it's what the performers might sound like live then you might be on to a bad thing.

About podcast volume: I'd recommend a compressor (possibly one on each mic if you are using more than one) and then run everything through a limiter afterwards before making the final MP3

The Word podcast is not by any means the worst-recorded podcast I've heard - not by any means; at least it's not covered in digital clicks and earth hum.

The Dawn discussion prompted a memory or two....

I remember setting off for my local record shop in Hereford to buy something for my nascent record collection after my 11th Birthday. I had money burning a hole in my pocket but didnt know what to to buy. So I did the obvious and asked the rather avuncular, but extremely hairy hippy behind the counter what he recommended.

I walked out with two LPs - Van der Graaf Generator 'Pawn Hearts' and The Dawn Takeaway Concert. The latter was a 99p 'sampler' which I was heartened to discover contained at least one track by a band I had heard of, Mungo Jerry. I remember putting in on the record player at home and listening in horror as track after track came and went, each one being worse than the last. I also realised that I didn't have the nerve to take it back as the hippy was much too intimidating to risk talking to twice in one day and anyway the other record seemed OK. I consigned it to the bottom of the small pile of records beside my bed.

HOWEVER 37 years (and hundreds of LPs) later, after the podcast I realised that I couldn't remember ever having thrown it out. I went out to the garage and in the bottom of a packing case there it was. I bought it in and, harbouring thoughts that perhaps my more sophisticated musical taste may now discover this to be some wonderful rock undiscovered masterpiece, I put it on.

It's still shit.

...laughed out loud at David's dead-on description of their 'achievements'. Having said that, being a fan of prog exotica and arcana, I have a few albums here and there on that label which are rather good- Comus' 'First Utterance' (imagine Roger Chapman singing with The Incredible String Band...), a few albums by Jonesy (King Crimson/Yes type outfit) and Man's '2 Ozs Of Plastic With A Hole In The Middle' (top class Welsh psych rock act). Nevertheless, I also had the misfortune of having a 2-disc anthology of other stuff on the label and by God, was most of it dreadful. I remember a particularly frightful track by a band called Smokestack Crumble called 'Got A Bad Leg' and John Kongos warbling 'Confessions About A Goldfish'.

I also have a compilation by Pete Brown's Piblokto. It's not half bad....I'll get my coat.

Going back to how records sound these days rather than the sound quality of the podcast, and veering slightly off topic.... how about the sound quality of resissues ?

We are constantly bombarded with remastered / re released versions of albums we know and love - how much of an improvement are these over the original ? Are they worth me parting with my hard earning cash to replace ?

Its interesting that the reviews of reissues in all the major music publications always just talk about actual songs and never seem to give us much of an indication of what the reissue gains in audio quality. I don't want a What HiFi review, but I would like a little more insight. Case in point - I'm not embarrassed to admit I like Genesis and there material is currently undergoing the SACD / multichannel reissue. As always these generally got critically panned, but surely the point is that the target audience for these are people who already know and like the albums and are interested in whether SACD adds anything ? BTW the tenuous link to the original topic is that I recall on some of the genesis related forums, there were complaints that the stereo mixes had been heavily compressed - i.e. making them better for the MP3 generation.......

...I'll never be remotely embarassed to admit my love for them either. I seem to remember Q magazine gave the reissues some smug bad reviews but this is a magazine that dolls out 4 or 5 stars to Oasis and James Blunt albums after all. The other reviews I read were generally good and positive.

As to the quality, I have to say they won't be replacing my old CDs! I loved the remixes for 5.1/SACD which is why I got them but the stereo ones are definitely over-loud in parts to these ears. 'And Then There Were Three' sounded a real mess to me, and when I played 'Duke' yesterday I was startled by how over-egged 'Duke's Travels/Duke's End' sounded in parts. Meanwhile, 'A Trick Of The Tail' is a mixed bag to for my ears- the climax of 'Entangled' has a bizarre 'echo' effect on the acoustic guitar which certainly wasn't there on the original. Indeed, being the hopelessly devoted type I noted many differences on these reissues that I won't bore people here with.

That 'loudness war' thing is a worrying trend. I have to say the very worst example of this I know of Rush's 'Vapor Trails' where it genuinely drains you listening to it. I guess some here will say 'what's new' as it's a Rush album but really, it was way louder than it should have been. Paul McCartney's latest one 'Memory Almost Full' has that 'clipping' thing going on too.

I wonder what the latest batch of Van Morrison remasters are like. Having been distressed at the meagre amount of bonus tracks and the fact the packaging is almost identical to the last bunch of remasters, I've been very put off and haven't bought any of them...Might be tempted by 'St Dominic's Preview', 'Veedon Fleece' and 'Common One' though.

could some kind person post the youtube link again for maroon 5 in studio?
amused by podcast so would like to see the clip itself. many thanks.

The audio quality of the podcast has improved immeasurably, but can still struggle when pitted against the absurd EU volume limit on classic iPods (when I can tear myself away from my usual aquatic listening environment, obviously...). Mr Hepworth cuts through, but Mr Ellen fades in and out as he (presumably) rocks back and forth mid-anecdote. Could you attach a microphone to his person (or vice-versa)?

Really enjoyed the podcast as I lay listening in bed to it until 2am on Saturday morning. Fascinating stuff, it really makes you realise how manufactured records are these days. We hear bands and they sound great but little do we know the torture behind the records at times. I hadn't actually read Tom Whitwell's piece until I hear the podcast, but it made for interesting listening too. Excellent!

particualrly the Tom Whitwell stuff which i read and enjoyed before the pod.
Have to agree with sound issue though. I too listen in the car and it is really hard to hear on occasions.
Still it is free so shouldn't grumble really....

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=19190

Enrique Iglesias, before & after the notorious Pro Tools plug-in. Ignore the Swedish voice-over...