Entertainment For Lively Minds
Musical open-mindedness, or Knowing What You Like.
I was struck by something in the Jo Whiley thread. We often take it as a given that being open-minded about music is a good thing. Leaving aside that most of us are self-evidently nothing of the sort, is it so bad to Know What You Like?
I'm sure my antipathy towards many forms of jazz and all thus-far-discovered forms of prog rock will strike some as closed-minded and possibly even reprehensible. My retort is that I've tried, a bit, and I'm not prepared to spend all that much more of my time trying any harder.
As I told Burt in another thread a few days ago, my default position is that I like concise music with tunes, and ideally with the ability to make me either want to dance, or to want to jump up and down and push my friends over. There are a few exceptions, but that's the broad core of my taste.
I sometimes feel a bit, well, guilty about this. I wonder if my tendency to go "oh shut up, for fuck's sake" when I see a terribly wonderful instrumentalist showing us at length how terribly wonderful he is is somehow wrong. I should be More Open-Minded.
Or should I? There are only so many hours in a life. I know what I like. I'm more musically exploratory than many. Why is pushing the boundaries of one's taste considered to be such a good thing?
Discuss! Or not. Up to you.
- More from Bob.
- Login or register to post comments










I think you're missing the point.
Jo Whiley gets paid to interview musicians for a living and had never heard of a seminal piece of music or in fact the artist. It's not about what you like or not.
No, you're missing the point.
This is a different thread. I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about something that came up in that conversation, but this time on its own terms. It's called a tangent. I hope you enjoy it.
We are missing the point ?
No, I dont think so, your use of the word seminal proves that! Bob is spot on and I wish I could have made that point as eloquently as he.
Seminal?
Was it also quintessential?
I doubt it was his sophomore effort yet was undoubtedly a "cacophony of improvised keyboard wizardry'!
but lacking the
unrepentant doo-wop harmonies it so clearly required.
and banjos!
Each to their own
There's no reason at all to make yourself like things which patently you don't. I'd question your claim to be open minded though. As you say in the OP, "I like concise music with tunes, and ideally with the ability to make me either want to dance, or to want to jump up and down and push my friends over". Fine. That explains why you don't like Keith Jarrett, prog, Mahavishu Orchestra, etc. But it's hardly a manifesto for open mindedness, is it? I repeat, no reason why you should like them. Or I the latest from Lady Gaga, Beyonce, etc. No solos, you see! But I think I like most sorts of music, though as i sayI have a blind spot with brassy women prancing around in their underwear (or men too, I guess).
PS - you know this is not a troll! ;-)
I didn't claim to be open minded!
I said that, sure, I might be closed minded about certain narrowish areas of music, but I wasn't sure this was such a bad thing. Is being closed minded towards music you educatedly guess is of a type you haven't enjoyed in the past necessarily so bad? When there's uncountable millions of other records out there which you *might* like?
Sure, I'm not going to be bothering with Keith Jarrett or the Mahavishnu Orchestra, because I suspect I won't like them based on the slim evidence to have reached my ears so far. I'll admit that. But at the same time - ref. Steve's post below - I certainly don't only restrict myself to *bands* I already like. I just make an educated guess, given available information, because I can't give everything a fair shot.
Every time you walk past the Rihanna album in a shop without giving it a second look, you're doing the same. Aren't you?
I always give Rihanna albums
a second glance. I don't want to listen to them though.
*I'll get my dirty mac*
I just listened to the MO and an amazing thing happened!
Ok, it didn't. I gave it a shot. To my ears it was awful. OOAA, YMMV. But my (relatively educated) preconceptions were right, so that 15 mins was pretty much a waste of time. The music conformed exactly to my expectations.
Was there, in short, any point in my bothering? I'd argue probably not.
The point is,
now you know. Before, you only had preconceptions. Don't you ever get a warm glow at being proved right?
Oh, yes!
It's practically the only reason I get up in the mornings! ;-)
My point is more that I don't have time to listen to *everything*, so given that I knew roughly what the MO's MO was, it was a bit of a waste of time giving it a chance. I've heard enough prog and modern jazz to know that there's only the slimmest of likelihoods I'll enjoy more. So why bother?
Arf!
I always figure that some music is better than none, but whenever I recoil from the TV, radio or someone else's phone it usually turns out to be Grime. Coincidentally, I too think I enjoyed reading about the MO more than I did listening to them.
You probably could have done it in less than 15 mins, Bob.
If you'd picked the shortest MO track available to you at the time (seeing that you like your music to be concise) you'd only have spent about 5 mins. I would argue that sparing 5 minutes occasionally, to confirm your deepest suspicions, is a reasonable use of your time. As long as you don't make a habit of it.
Gonna have to disagree with you Bob
I like being surprised. If I listen only to the artists whose albums I already possess I am rarely going to be surprised. Therefore I have a strong need to buy albums by artists I have never heard and,in some instances, never heard of.This is usually as the result of a review I have read that makes the reviewed album sound interesting. When I invest in said album I am usually pleased but sometimes disappointed. it's the chance you take. Went on something of a cd shopping spree yesterday with El Toro - came back with a bagful of cd's quite a few of which were by artists I have never listened to before. Will let you know what they are liken if anything falls into the exceptional category. An example recently is the latest album by Dawes which contains asong called Alittle bit of everything which without much exaggeration may be the best song I have heard in the last 5 years, certainly in the last year. I took a punt on the album as a result and it really is excellent. 6 weeks ago I had never heard of them. Mind you I had never heard any of The Hold Steady until I took the plunge after reading your comments. So there you are you increased the sales of your favourite band!!
My closed-mindedness is a broad church.
From experience, I've found that there are several entire genres of music that I am unable to enjoy. The "wide musical taste" I like to flatter myself with is in fact narrower than a new-wave necktie. I've tried to dip my toe in all of these pools, and have proudly displayed critically-acclaimed examples on my shelves in the hope that the Random Visiting Music Expert (coming to your home soon) will be awed by my knowledge and appreciation of the wonderful diversity of music, but as the years pass I find my tastes tightening as much as the waistband of my jeans.
Genres, then, I dismiss entirely (or nearly so):
- Classical: exceptions: Mozart Clarinet Concerto, Haydn String Quartets.
- "World" music: pretty much everything ethnic and real and rootsy from anywhere in the world. Includes the legion of bearded UK folk bores (the Watersons, Martin Carthy etc.)
- Blues: from the original recordings through any number of white blues bands and guitarists, I tend to agree with Steve Martin - "isn't it kinda - depressing?"
- Rap: here's a pound, go away.
- Indie: oooh! I just wrote some songs! let's find a picture of some dead trees and make an album!
- Metal: in all its gruesome guises.
- House/techno/handbag/whatever: uhhhh ...
- Disco: never helped me dance.
- "Alt-" anything: like alternative comedy, I only have time for the real thing.
- Geek/math/post-rock: You are American, you are ironic, you can step off my porch.
- Country n' Western: "We got both kinds of music - country, and western."
- Rock n' Roll: All of it. I don't care. That means you too, Elvis.
- Hard Rock: exceptions: Led Zeppelin, Blue Oyster Cult.
- Punk: not the original Nuggets-y punk, but the UK phenom. Tried to like it at the time, tried since with diminishing returns, gave up trying.
- New Wave: exception: Television.
- "Nu-" anything: see "alt-".
- "Wyrd-" anything: see "Nu".
- Grunge: fine if you're in Seattle.
(I'm sure I'm forgetting entire areas of musical expression I could dismiss as airily as the above, and I'll edit them in if I can be arsed.)
Bloody ruddy hell Burt!
Don't drink, don't smoke, what DO you like?!
Good question ...
... I have over 2000 albums in my iTunes, used to own about 3k vinyls, same amount of CDs ... I must like *something* ... I'll get back to you ...
Don't drink, don't smoke, what DO you like?!
"The subtle innuendos follow
There must be something inside"
Sorry Couldn't resist.
Don't know if it's just me but I've found people who say they like to Stretch their Musical boundries are the least likely to experiment with other forms of music.Would "Jazzers" listen to Country etc ?
I'm with Bob on the MO,what a racket ! had to go listen to the Buzzcocks singles collection as an antidote.
I'm a jazzer,
...and I listen to Country.
Burt, this site
is usually populated by people who like music.Did you come on here by accident?
Good question, Steve ...
... I have over 2000 albums in my iTunes, used to own about 3k vinyls, same amount of CDs ... I must like *something* ... I'll get back to you ...
Rock 'n' Roll?
Yikes!
The greatest explosion of popular music and most influential to have ever happened, bar none, and in 2011 as cheap as chips on CD.
(Bought in Fopp yesterday: a 45 track Eddie Cochran compilation for £3.)
Also, the music of Eddie Cochran, Buddy Holly and Larry Williams (to cherry-pick three) sounds far more vibrant and sharp than 90% of music made since, and 100% made today.
Ranger -
I know! I KNOW! Dammit, I ... (BREAKS DOWN AND SOBS) ... just ... don't LIKE it! Oh, BEWHEWHEW!!!! (BLOWS NOSE ON DOGFACE'S SLEEVE)
Original 50s Rock & Roll
I can handle.
It was the half-arsed, tosspot revivalists in the 70s that gave R&R a bad name and reduced it to crass Saturday Superstore level.
They rode on the back of American Graffiti and Happy Days and for a while they were everywhere with their drape jackets and brothel creepers.
Showaddywaddy, Shakin' Stevens, Mud, Darts, Alvin Stardust etc etc. What an insipid shower they were and what a waste of everyone's time that entire musical dead-end was. Some of them even made the front page of the NME!
Despite doing it better than most, the Stray Cats were a bit rubbish, too (although I have a lot of time for what Brian Setzer's up to now) and even the great Roy Wood dabbled with day-glo socks, crepe sole shoes and a quiff in Wizzard.
It was those half-arsed tosspot revivalists
what got me into music as a kid.
Of course, I can see it was of questionable quality now, but I have Showaddywaddy, Shakey, Mud, Darts, etc. to thank for kick-starting a deep and abiding love of pop music.
Oh, I forgot to mention Matchbox. They were my favourites.
I'm sure
we were all guilty of listening to dodgy stuff when we were younger.
For example, at nine years old I was convinced that Cliff was better than Elvis!
Ha!
You have to kiss a few frogs, etc.
Although, I've never been fond of Serge Gainsbourg.
Jane Birkin
on the other hand....
Plain...
...weird, as you seem to admit.
You don't think the England football team have ten world class players do you?
You're not Henry Winter?!
Still, who needs Gene Vincent, when you've got Duran Duran, eh?
That's to the comment above mojoworking....
....rock 'n' roll is the 50s though I will add that that revival was no more than a dead end than the fabled mod revival of a few years later.
Alas, Ranger!
I don't even have Duran Duran! Apparently I hate music in all its forms! Which I don't, of course. I merely get great enjoyment from a rather narrow bandwidth of it: pop (from the 'twenties on), rock, jazz, funk, soul, r n'b, jazz-rock, fusion, reggae, dub, soundtracks, electronic, "avant garde", serial and minimalist, singer-songwriter ... that'll do for now. It's been a bit depressing to get the impression from the "ups" your comment got that those of the massive bothering with this don't seem to be able to think beyond my list of "areas of disinterest", casting me as a music-hating grouch, and, perhaps, calling their own broad-mindedness into question. Many jazz fans I know don't listen to anything outside those confines, and lead rich lives. My tastes are a little broader than theirs (Monkees/Terry Riley/Can/Bing Crosby/Carly Simon on the current shuffle, for instance) but still not as broad as I'd like to think. And clearly not broad enough for the fantastically open, free, and non-discriminating souls who give you pats on the back for questioning my presence here.
Nuts to them, frankly.
You haven't listed Prog
Now there is a rich seam of excellence to mine and expand your horizons even further.
Owning 2000 albums I guess some are prog though and fall within your rock definition.
Lay off the jazz rock though...it only leads to white socks and a spangly suit.
If that is a good look in todays Thailand however then fill your boots!
Blimey that's quite a list of what you don't like
This site must be a pretty depressing place for you.
Incidentally, given that Martin Carthy doesn't have a beard, which other members of the Watersons do you think do?
Although, since we're discussing our prejudices, I confess I'm generally fairly dismissive of rapping (and its cousins). Great for those who like it but not for me I'm afraid,
This was confirmed for me at V (I went because my son was too young to go on his own). I didn't think I'd enjoy Eminem or Dizzee Rascal (or "Dizzee Fucking Rascal" as he charmingly announced himself) but gave them a chance. And I confirmed this sort of thing isn't really for me. Enjoyed Plan B though.
I don't know...
..have you seen Norma lately?
Thomas, see my comment above.
And give your preconceptions a good kicking while you're at it.
The Watersons mention in the context of beards was (obviously, I thought) meant to be funny. Maybe I'll put "LOLs" in next time.
We're not "discussing our prejudices", either.
Sorry Burt....
...I think our posts crossed. Suffice it to say I agree with you, even if we don't agree on the specific list of likes/dislikes.
At least, Bob,
I got the gist of your original post, I hope. Not about likes/dislikes, but about the point where "knowing what you like" becomes "narrow-mindedness." This is a distinction that clearly still escapes some here, but one that made me examine my own listening with results that surprised me.
Also missed by those slatey-faced individuals who piled into my comments - a lot of self-deferential humour, which if I have to point out rather loses its own point.
But yes, as someone wittily suggested, I do find it a bit depressing here sometimes, but not for the reason he imagined (or pretended to). I come here for the several writers whose work I enjoy; this forum is a bit of a car boot sale, and I can't expect to be charmed by everything I see. Some of it is a load of old tat, and some of it treasure.
In fairness to Burt....
...that list still leaves him with quite a lot of options.
I sometimes think that music taste often comes off a bit like a competitive sport with some people. How many records have you got? How seminal/essential/compulsory are many of them? How weird are others? How poorly did they sell? How many bootlegs? Oh but of COURSE I listen to Penderecki when I'm washing up, don't you? WHAT? YOU DON'T OWN KIND OF BLUE?! WHAT ARE YOU, SOME KIND OF MONSTER? OR A STEPS FAN?
Of course, what it comes down to is that everyone's open-minded about stuff they like, which makes anyone who doesn't like the same stuff closed-minded! So to anyone who loves Trout Mask Replica, I'm probably closed minded because it strikes me as the most horrible Emperor's New Clothes racket. But to anyone who's minded like me on the subject of that record, I'm not closed-minded, just... you know... not deaf.
;-)
Trout Mask...
just the Blues. Played sideways.
If you don't like it, maybe try "Safe As Milk"? It's a more accessible album, at least by the Captain's standards. One or two songs even resemble pop.
In the pursuit of being open-minded
(and because a woman I fancied invited me) I went to an opera and was bored to tears. I stuck it out until the half-time break, but I'm glad I went and gave it a go.
I've discovered bits of opera I quite like on Classic FM, but as a genre it's just never going to float my boat. Likewise reggae or electronica, there's the odd bit that I find listenable, but it's just never going to connect with me. So I'm happy to give new things a go, but within the genres that I already know I like.
This is my latest discovery - a Zack Galifinakis-lookalike and his sister.
I try and give everything a fair go
music is a expansive and wide selection and sometimes it hard to keep up with everything.
I find I often go through periods of obsessions with a certain artist or range of music and then move on.
Don't really care when \ where it comes from as long as it touches me in some way whether that be to reflectively suck a tooth or to sing along like a loon whilst pogoing.
I find rejecting whole genres of music as immature and a reversion to the fickleness of a teenager who only likes one sort cos of their peers or to belong. I don't like to close myself off to anything as you never know where it could lead. Used to have an aversion to Dylan until I found my personal key and that opened up a rich avenue with him and many other artists
Would say that anyone telling me an album changed their life does set you up to be disappointed however good it is cos music is as personal as who you fall in love with. Often you can't put your finger on EXACTLY why. Yes your interest may have been piqued by a shapely leg or nice smile (or big bazzongas) but the appeal is often undefinable.
I read about music a lot and won't skip an article in say a magazine just cos I'm unfamiliar with the artist or genre. OK if its about the RHCP's I might but I do like finding out about new people and sounds.
So people saying "you must listen to this cos its seminally important" is a turn off but someone saying 'I listened to this the other day and I think its great" is more likely to get my attention.
Some people are content to stick with what they know. I guess I'm just not that sort of person.
Ewwww! Get you!
"I find rejecting whole genres of music (as) immature ..."
Congratulations on being a mature, free-thinking individual who recognises indefinable quality in music regardless of genre, by the way. I guess you're just that sort of person.
(... and what's with this "cos" business? Is it another acronym?)
You only say what you hate
and nothing about what you like. That really doesn't interest me. Be closed minded about everything and anything - your loss.
Dear Dogface:
I don't think I said I hated any of that music. You said that. My comment is in direct response to the original post, which was not (as you seemingly interpret it) a request for a list of "music you like": "I'm sure my antipathy towards many forms of jazz and all thus-far-discovered forms of prog rock will strike some as closed-minded and possibly even reprehensible. My retort is that I've tried, a bit, and I'm not prepared to spend all that much more of my time trying any harder" etc.
I'm agreeing in some way with the OP. I have tried to like music from those genres I mentioned over the years, and it is my experience that leads me to believe further attempts will lead to disappointment. I don't rule anything out for its provenance. I've been listening to music, as an essential part of my life, for nearly half a century. I have learned what I like. Ultimately, my tastes are what they are, and I wouldn't particularly defend them on any basis except they are tried and tested. It's interesting to me (very slightly) that you can't, apparently, imagine any music outside the types I list, and yet there is a world of it. I find something new to enjoy practically on a daily basis.
However, I do admire the Promethean open-ness of your own shining mind, which accommodates the ideas of Stanley Kubrick being a pretentious bore at one end and Simon Cowell being an admirable human being at the other.
(You're not Sacha Baron Cohen, working up a new character, are you? Have a biscuit!)
"I don't think I said I hated any of that music"
oh yes, my mistake - phrases like "in all its gruesome guises" are entirely positive.
Anyway, if you want to carry on this then PM me. No need to inflict it on others.
No, thanks.
I'm perfectly happy out here in the light where people can see us, thank you.
(Incidentally, I give all your comments an "up")
I love:
all sorts of music from all sorts of fields, so there are jazz and soul and blues and punk and electronics and pop and folk and classical and reggae and hip hop in my collection. I used to think I liked music with songs, but a long love of mostly instrumental dance music has told me that isn't the case.
I used to think I liked guitars, but actually I like very little guitar music, and the guitar music I like is either acoustic or sharp rather than heavy.
And I used to think my tastes were quite varied, but actually the music I like from the various genres above sits together very well, is sometimes stylistically quite similar. For instance Paul Weller and Jazz sit together alongside soul and punk in my head. ABC's Trevor Horn produced pop covered in strings as it is, sits alongside my classical and John Williams soundtracks. If you see what I mean.
But I'm always open to something new or at least new to my ears, because I'm still of the belief that the music I haven't heard could be as good as the music that I love. And to that end I'm still being proved right.
I kind of know what you mean Bob, because sometimes I feel like that, I've already got 1000s of songs that I know and love, where's the time for something new? But then I feel like exploring something different, finding something out of my usual things, something that might catch my excitement taste buds the way hearing Kraftwerk or The Clash or Patti Smith or Tim Buckley did for me too.
I also live in a pretty narrow space, music wise
Albeit after years of a deliberate policy resulting in very very narrow tastes. When into post punk, nothing but white boys with guitars would make it to the turntable, one small epiphany later and it's funk and souls all the way, with an equally rigid but this time reversed race policy in place.
Anyway after this turntable apartheid I have reached a point now where I can listen to hip hop, some indie, old punk, funk and soul and disco, some Bowie, some pop, alt country, electronica, reggae and any period Paul Weller. This I presumed suggested very catholic taste. Not so. After talking with others and reading things here. It seems I am still closing the door on vast amounts of great music, but I'm pretty sure I can well live without heavy metal, folk, classical, opera, grunge, rawk music, prog, nu rave, dylan, the Beatles, the stones, led Zeppelin. This is not deliberate bloody mindedness, it's just that these genres have failed to move me in the past and life's too short for that much exploring.
I will however happily sit and read interviews or reviews of bands and people that I know I will never listen to their music.
I have no control over it
Last christmas I feel in love with reggae. Head over heels. Still going strong. It's happened before - Richard Thompson was another coup de foudre. I can't explain it, any more than I can explain why Genesis suddenly became unendurable or my continuing aversion to Bowie.
I'm glad it happens though, that sudden realisation of something wonderful.
Nothing wrong with knowing what you like.
My musical tastes have broadened out as I have got older but although I don't necessarily seek out certain genres ( I will play the jazz card here)but if I heard a track that grabbed me it would be off to Itunes. I have recently come out of a period when I gave up on new music for a while and mostly bought greatest hits (usual excuses, work kids etc). Im now back in collecting mode as it were so am buying new stuff again so I think there's music you like and that you don't. I haven't got the time to persevere with stuff, nor have I the disposable cash to take a punt on something. One thing i have noticed there are many so called "classic albums" or indeed artists that do nothing for me. The thing to avoid is slagging people off because they dont agree with you. (That said I have tried prog by watching a couple of BBC 4 documentaries recently and it clearly is bobbins ;))
I like to think I'm open minded about music
And would echo a lot of what the DogFacedBoy said above.
I often joke that, essentially, I have no critical faculties whatsoever - and that may be true. However I do like to think I can find something to like in most genres, and also to recognise what is 'good' and what is 'not so good' in each genre as well. Or maybe I just have my own prejudices!
Finding new music is still one of the things I enjoy most, whether that's a new band in an area I know well or a whole new genre (like the South American music I discovered earlier this year - Venezuelan funk, anyone?).
I dread the day when there's nothing new or undiscovered out there to excite me.
I don't like music
in fact I only buy those cds that are music for people who don't like music.
Me too
I loved that Adele album.
My mum bought me the new Noel Gallagher album cos she thought he was the X-Factor bloke - got him confused with Mr Cardle in the Tesco CD aisle (fair enough as she only goes once a year).
Sorry
I'm afraid I am one of those annoying open-minded types.
My collection is ridiculously eclectic and there are very few genres that I just can't get on with at all. And right now I struggle to remember what they are...but I know they exist!
I think the reasons for my borderless tolerance towards all kinds of music are two.
1) I grew up hearing very different genres from the start. The attitude was always that if it's music, it's good. Even music you don't like is better than something that isn't music.
2) As soon as I started to buy music for myself I developed a principle: unless you're buying a new album by an old favourite, don't buy it if you know what it sounds like (it helped that I never was much of a radio listener).
So I would go to record stores and search for interesting looking sleeves, band names, album titles, song titles. Buy unknown albums by artists I knew very little or nothing about and had almost no preconceptions of, other than what I imagined they would sound like from those record sleeves.
And without preconceptions it's very difficult to be disappointed.
I still buy music this way to a large extent, though I'm not as stern regarding that principle anymore.
I'm far more likely to be disappointed with a new album when it's a new album from a favourite, or an album that I've heard too much about.
It's not all good, being this open-minded can get rather expensive! The amount of favourite artists that I need to keep buying albums by...but thankfully sooner or later they become less interesting and I can remove them from the "Must Own Everything By"-list and move on!
But of course there are many (many!) artists and bands that I cannot stand to hear a single note from, some because I've heard a lot of them and don't like it, and some for some completely irrational reason making me refuse to even give them a chance to convince me of their greatness. But that irrational reason is never based on genre alone.
But I don't care if others just stick to what they know that they like. It's not like you're spoiling my fun in any way!
You like what you like. It's
You like what you like. It's not something you can force.
There are genres I don't actively go and pursue, because a very high percentage is unappealing. There's always one or two gems in any genre though, and I'd like to think I'd at least listen to something before dumping it. I listen, for example, to each track on the monthly CD. Some get 4 stars on iTunes, some get no rating.
Does that make me open minded or close minded? Dunno. I like what I like. Same as you. Just enjoy what you listen to, I reckon.
You said it.
Much more succinctly than I intended to - so thanks for that.
It's not about being open-minded.
It's about being responsive.
Sometimes the music just creeps up and grabs you when you're not looking.
Spooky.
I go with the Peel philospophy
I will listen to anything at least once.
Except Westlife. But even that problem has now thankfully solved itself.
cannot stand Heavy Metal
in any if its multifarious nefariousness. Ooh! there's fake blood! Hey! look improbably breasted Valkyries! Ouch, there goes my eardrum! Oh no! a world full of death and destruction and death! Pop! goes my last brain cell! Wow! Pig's innards thrown at me! Satan! I am your nemesis! Mum! what's for tea?
You say all that...
as if it's a bad thing. What's not to like?!
Here's some Manowar to bring you round...
Good comeback
I'm throwing up the horns
That is pure Spinal Tap but marvellous at the same time!
I'm increasingly of the knowing-what-i-like persuasion
but just recently have been listening to Yes and finding the whole experience quite exhilarating. Maybe Genesis next.
If you know what you like...
and you're planning on listening to Genesis, you'd better do it in your wardrobe!
I don't find music, music finds me...
and so if I hear something and it connects with me then that's that. The dreaded word "genre" doesn't really come into it, although I obviously like some kinds of music more than others.
I only like Viking plain song
and the band, Darts.
Reasonably broad minded
but I'm quite obsessive about catching stuff while it's still fresh.
When I'm going through new releases I'm looking for something exciting, but I'm also looking for bands that I can go and see live. I'm not trying to be 'down with ver kids', I've nothing to prove, I just love to see live bands and I'm more interested in watching a band I've not seen before, on their way up.. rather than going to see old favourites.
A lot of this comes via my local indie record shops, trawling for things to spend my eMusic credit on, Pitchfork, Quietus etc so this is at the expense I suppose of digging through the back pages of Rock & Pop, or getting into Classical or Jazz..maybe I'll start on that if or when I tire of 'new' and going to gigs.
I like a good tune, but I'm always after something sonically interesting..there is so much technology and possibility and yet a lot of artists just come up with the same 3-4 chords and the same sounds. Combine a good tune with some interesting noises and I'm there! I like things that are a bit perplexing or mysterious..that just makes me want to get my head around it more.
I tend not to be particularly interested in Lyrics, I know I'm not alone in that. Not sure why, but it's always about the music for me. This means something like Dylan, or some of the very sparse acoustic folky stuff doesn't quite 'connect' with me..it's more like poetry than music. So although I can turn my ear to most things, I'm always looking for an unusual seqeunce of notes or a strange bit of production. I'm aware that leaves huge gaps in my musical appreciation!
Interesting about the lyrics thing
I'm broadly the same, its tunes that stick in my head. I thought it was just me so Im glad I'm not alone.
That's interesting
Because lyrics are hugely important to me. Great lyrics are much more likely to inspire me to listen to more of a band's work than huge innovation or impressive musicianship, neither of which are even close to top of my list of things I look for in music.
I guess, for me, pop music isn't a cerebral thing at all. It's visceral. I'm a classically trained cellist (lapsed) and my engagement with that music when I was studying for my grades and my performance certificate was definitely an intellectual as well as an emotional experience: it can't be otherwise. Trying to get the thumb position passages in the Elgar concerto right, or the sautillé bowing in a fiendish bit of Dvorak, or trying to interpret the Bach suites in a way that made sense to me: in many ways, that's the hardest brainwork I've ever done. I found it exhausting, if exhilarating. And listening to, for want of a better word, classical music still has that element of cerebral engagement for me.
Pop music doesn't. It serves something altogether more primal and less intellectual in me, music-wise. But I always appreciate a great lyric. Which explains why I like Dylan, and hip-hop, and The Hold Steady!
Ah yes, hip hop
I can appreciate, but I find the more hectoring stuff difficult to listen to, it often works against the music. Hearing J Dilla's instrumental stuff like 'Donuts' was a bit of a revelation on that score.
Innovation yes, Technique no..never been one for appreciating or admiring technical prowess, it's the overall soundscape that matters to me. That's not always an intellectual thing, the old hairs on the back of the neck still go when I hear something really exciting. I can get that from pop music too, although i'm not a big one for current chart pop which I know you like.
It doesn't need to be innovative necessarily
and to be fair I pay more attention to lyrics now, it just tends to be the tunes that stick in my brain not the words. (The opening riff from "Smells like teen spirit" is a particular favourite but is definately not innovative). Perhaps its the way I listen to music nowadays, I maybe listen more actively rather than it being on while I was doing something else like I did in my younger days (e.g. homework or boozing). Anyway, pop music is a wonderful thing and its the viseral thrills that you sometimes get from a track that make it that way.
Having given this lyric thing greater thought (there is little else to do having been awoken in the small hours by a toddler with manky eyes) I often find it difficult to interpret lyrics (or in the case of the afore mentioned Nirvana make them out) so perhaps thats why im a tunes man. I have similar difficulties with poetry which seems related to song lyrics. It is obviously the way my brain is wired up (or not)
No harm in stereotyping
it's only music after all, and there's a lot out there. I'm entirely comfortable binning a band's whole output based on a small sample. Two minutes over on Colin H's thread about the Mogadishu Orchestra told me all I need to know about that. Play it loud and despair, Colin said, so I did and I did.
I also know, based on the flimsiest of premises, that I will never again listen to Rush or Yes, and therefore by extension Genesis and ELP and so on, and that this will free up countless hours in which I can explore music that's new to me and from which I may get a lot of enjoyment. It's simple percentages really.
I don't know what I like
until I've heard it. If I haven't heard it, I have no opinion on it. And sometimes when I hear it again, I have a different opinion to the one I had when I heard it before.
I've tried since
I found this blog to be more open minded. Steely Dan and XTC are two discoveries I will always now enjoy but and this is the thing, when i get time to listen to music I want to savour every moment and for me that comes with familiarity so i will always reach for something I know I'm going to enjoy. If something finds me well that's all well and good but going through what i did say with The Associates (nothing else sounded like Club Country) 30 years ago to almost force appreciation I doubt I will do again.
Never say never
A record I could love might come from anywhere - I try to be open to that, regardless of genre. But the best transcend genre, mostly. In recent years I've come round to Steely Dan and early Roxy Music, which for most of my life were dismissed, so never say never to the acclaimed works, usually there's a reason they endure. I am a music more than lyrics listener. I can appreciate the less pop end of the spectrum of long, largely instrumental pieces as much as the short sharp singalong stuff, though I do think that the former blurs into jazz territory. You can like both of course. I do have prejudices due to stereotyping - what they used to call 'roots' when I worked in a record store has always been a bit of a turn off, as are huge swathes of classical. Other than that I'll give it all a go.
The worst combination is the one I have.
Which is hating U2 and Sting whilst knowing loads of the drivel they have spewed out over the years.
Honestly, I'd be a lot jollier if precious headspace wasn't taken up with informed critiques of exactly why Pride (In The Name Of Love) and If You Love Somebody Set Them Free are shite. Open minded schmopen minded, life is happier when crap is not listened to.
Which is why I have never listened to a Yes album all the way through. Five minutes of The Yes Album really was enough to realize it was "not for me tah."
*returns to his folk music*
Broader tastes
One difference about listening to popular music now and when I first became interested about 1979 is the relative lack of tribalism. back in the day liking one band's output or a genre was seen to preclude you from declaring admiration for anything distinctly different.
The town I grew up in was still heavily influenced by the music that came before Punk and New Wave. At school the most popular artist was probably Led Zeppelin and in the main anything newer was derided and even if you liked something more recent it seemed almost impossible to say - actually that's quite good.
As I grew older and heard more material this position was revealed to be utterly ludicrous; as someone else has already said music is either good or bad, dependant on your judgement, and who made it almost becomes irrelevant.
So, after they had ceased to exist I came to understand and love Joy Division and even later read that that Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner were in their youth huge Led Zeppelin fans which is possibly why the records appealed to me.
These days eclecticism is seen to be an admirable thing as it removes any barriers to seeking out new worlds, new civilizations, to boldly go......
In any musical genre..
The finest artists generally make music that everyone appreciates and, as such, I have a very wide selection of genres to which I listen.
Urban / grime / dubstep, however.. Fucking racket. Can't abide it.
Don't think that's necessarily true, though, Len.
Colin H really knows what he's talking about re. prog and jazz and jazz rock. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Mahavishnu Orchestra are the finest musicians working in their genre. I can see that all the players are probably virtuosos. But their music still made me want to run away, screaming. To my ears it was just wank, and I don't mean that as a judgement on those who appreciate it. I just wanted to give them all a slap and tell them to toss one off on their own time.
OOA, naturally, A.
Running and screaming
You'll have to go some to catch me, big fella. Colin introduces one of those MO clips with "Here's the first nine minutes" and those words were enough to have me out of the starting blocks and over the horizon, screaming like a closed-minded banshee.
I did say "generally"
And, by "finest artists" I did not mean "finest musicians".
And The Mahavishnu Orchestra do not make, as you say, wank. They make a right fucking load of old wank. There is an important difference.
Way too narrow-minded for my own good
If I see anyone under forty on "Later" brandishing an acoustic guitar then I immediately switch channels because I know they're going to be shit. Similarly, if more than one of your band has a beard and your publicity photographs show you stood by a tree, then I won't even give you the time of day.
Recently, that picture of CW Stoneking done up in his pre-war fancy dress and the mere mention of the name "Delta Maid" were enough to convince me that I'd be skipping the podcast in the weeks they appeared, which is something I've never done before or since.
Worst of all, I decided that I would never let myself listen to Gillian Welch once I discovered that her name was pronounced with a hard "G"; I hated her immediately.
Names
Very shallow. If I don't like the name I won't give it the time of day. This absurd prejudice can relate to the artist name or precord. I have heard music by I Am Kloot and Clap Hands Say Yeah and even enjoyed it. However, I refuse to endorse said music or countenance ownership on the grounds their names make me flinch.
On the other hand, if you recorded in the 60s or 70s and have a first name that sounds like a surname such as Booker or Latimore then I will spend absurd amounts of time and money seeking out your work.
A good song
I've been following this one with interest. Lots of great writing. Only on The Word blog etc etc.....
I like a good song. I guess around 90% of my music is song based. The song can come from anywhere at all; from The Carter Family in 1927 to Nick Lowe's new one - just good songs. Even Spandau Ballet can contribute a great song in Through The Barricades.
Non-song, I love Duke Ellington and most pre-bop jazz, Booker T and the MG's and pieces that are a lot more concise than Mahavishnu Orchestra.
I'm sure there are exceptions to my self-imposed rule but that's where I find my taste lies.
Through The Barricades??????
Surely you mean "Chant Number One"?
Class
Chant No1 was played very loudly in my house this weekend. Top tune.
Nope
I'm into songs. Chant No 1 is a great record but not a great song.
Barricades could be sung by, eg, Christy Moore or Liam Clancy and would still be a great song.
Both
are a bit shit. A great song is something like Shipbuilding. Not Through The Barricades. Spandau Ballet have never written a 'great' song*.
*this is a subjective fact. But a fact nonetheless.
Oh good lord no. Shipbuilding
is a tuneless, depressing dirge. Sorry. And I quite like Robert Wyatt.
This is a big shiny slab of gorgeous pop joy. Excellent songwriter Gary Kemp. Seriously.
Tony Hadley's clothes...
Christ.
Oh yes!
Haha, Leedsboy and I have had this conversation before; and clearly it's a matter of opinion *cough*you'rewrong*cough". Only When You Leave is a stonking great tune (not a Stoneking one, though, thankfully), despite - or is it because of?? - Tony Hadley's distressing sartorial decisions.
I just don't like Spandau Ballet
I was just so very disappointed in everything they did after being genuinely excited by the 20th Century Box documentary and the first single. After that, they seemed desperately keen to be a white soul band but they could never compete with ABC. SB are exactly the kind of act I would expect to see on a cruise liner.
I like everything
Well, not everything, but I'm open to offers. My ipod is goes from A-ha to 999, from Gentle Giant to Aneka, from The Thompsons to Smokie, from Roxy Music to Nik Kershaw, with a bit of everything in between.
Like what you like and don't feel bad about it. Just enjoy it.
Bob's question was...
Why is pushing the boundaries of one's taste considered to be such a good thing?
My answer is, because you don't know what you don't know, and there may be wonderful things out there that you're unaware of. This presupposes you actually want to discover new things. Personally I'm always up for trying new stuff, by which I mean new to me, not necessarily recently released. And I also accept that you have to give it a good go. Listening for 15 minutes and thinking "yep, wank" isn't giving it a good go. Some music requires a bit more effort for the penny to drop. You may well think you shouldn't need to make an effort, but I'd disagree. That way lies banal sugar coated easily digested pap. Much of the music I really love took me some time to get into, but was well worth it. But you have to want to. Which is where good music writing comes in. Someone writing passionately about music can motivate me to really dig in and explore something new. Or someone enthusing down the pub. Or on here. I even tried that unspeakable Nicole Roberts album you recommended. Dreadful, dreadful. But I did give it a few listens.
False opposition.
Musical sophistication doesn't equal musical worth. There's no link. Sometimes sophisticated music is worthwhile, sometimes it's absolute bullshit. Sometimes simple music is worthwhile, sometimes it's not.
So how much time would you suggest I listen to music I think is awful, in order to be able to be qualified to say I don't like it?
I suppose what I was trying to get at with the original question was this: we generalise, sort, seek patterns and stereotype all the time. It's natural that we extend that to music. I don't know why you bothered listening to the Nicola Roberts record, because it was a near mathematical certainty that you wouldn't like it. You knew that, I knew that. So why waste your time?
There's millions of records that have a better chance at worming their way into either of our affections. We use genres to help identify them. What's so wrong with that, as long as we're not operating from a position of total ignorance? You generally don't like current electro-pop, and there's no shame in that. It's fine to write it off: you tried, a bit. It's not for you. Why take each artist operating in that genre on their own merits? I haven't got that kind of time, and I'm sure you don't either.
It's no different from turning EastEnders off because you don't like soaps.
Pas de tout
Who mentioned musical sophistication? I actually had no idea what the NR album would be like and I tried it because you were so enthusiastic about it. Now I know what it's like. At least I've now heard it. For the record i have plenty of EBTG, Madonna, Cyndi Lauper etc etc. I just cant bear the cynical plundering of old genres and styles and hit songs which underpins much modern pop. Dont these people have any ideas? Or self respect?
How long? I usually dip into something new every day for a few minutes and after a week PR so it's either happening or it isn't. I defy you you to liisten to that Keith Jarrett song I posted - Country - each morning and not love it by the end of the week. Or not. It shouldn't be hard work!
"It shouldn't be hard work."
I feel the same way.
BTW, the music sophistication thing was a conclusion I perhaps wrongly jumped to from your line, "You may well think you shouldn't need to make an effort, but I'd disagree. That way lies banal sugar coated easily digested pap."
It seemed to me you were saying that unless you have to make an effort, the music is unlikely to be worthwhile. And I equated, again, perhaps wrongly, "making an effort" with the music being "sophisticated".
No no
making an effort to me just means it doesn't immediately click. no automatic assumption of sophistication. My sugary pap quip is a bit lazy, I meant if you only listen to totally innocuous, inoffensive, easily assimilated music it's a pretty poor diet. My classic example was Bow Wow Wow. I automatically assumed they were shit - Adam Ant's reject band, pathetic advertising with half naked 15 year old girl, Malcolm bloody McClaren. Stupid spoken verses. Idiotic lyrics. Daft "pop star" clothes. You name it. A pal of mine taped the album for me and after a few listens I sort of "got" what they were up to, and loved it. especially afer a few herbal cigs.
Ah! Gotcha.
My misunderstanding.
Ultimately there are only two types of music, maaan
ie - The stuff I like and the shite everybody else listens to.
Boundaries
I wonder what defines the boundaries? Is it an actual aversion to a particular sound, style, type of lyric? Or is it just defined by the stuff you've spent your hard earned cash on?
The reason I ask, is that I feel I don't have any boundaries since Spotify came along.
Genres
I gave up on the idea of defining what music I like by genre many years ago. The more music and types of music I heard over time the less satisfactory labelling that music became in terms of conceptualising or describing my enjoyment of it. Labels limit.
It is an age thing as well. There is a conscious decision being made here based on a realisation that I'd missed out on great music in the past through prejudice largely borne of tribal ignorance.
So I don't think of the music I like in terms of genres but in terms of particular artists and particular records. For example, I have a number of Miles Davis albums but my two favourite records by him are Kind of Blue and In A Silent Way. They are two very different albums both of which have been labelled "jazz". Both of them have ideas and sounds to them that qualify as jazz but, to my ears, aren't exclusive to that genre. Calling them jazz records limits them and limits my ability to discover other forms of jazz music.
For me, great music becomes great because it makes you feel and think differently either about music or about yourself and any number of variations of those two themes. To reach that level of enjoyment or emotional investment does, in my mind, require the listener to have an open mind. You have to want to be affected by music that you've never heard before, to be open to the idea that labelling it "prog", looking at how many minutes it lasts and worrying about how competent the musicians are/aren't is going to drastically affect your ability to listen to it with an open mind. Listening implies an active sensory and emotional participation in the event. If you come to any new music with preconceptions you are setting limits on yourself and that your senses operate during the listening experience.
I think what I do has a big effect on this. I'm my own boss and my company makes software from open source technologies. I work in an environment where openness and making things accessible is paramount alongside an inate willingness to defer to new and different ideas in the expectation and belief that by doing so it will make the product and the service better. Which is kind of how I approach music really.
That's admirable.
But I think I'm starting to realise that perhaps some people think music is more important than I do. So what if I miss out on a great record? I don't really care. There'll be another one along in a minute!
Bravo
I completely agree. It's a cheap and disposable form of entertainment that occasionally throws up a keeper. That's the great strength of pop music, it's not the property of intellectuals.
Put it this way
Listening to music is more important to me than listening to anyone's opinion about music. And I love listening to anyone's opinion about music.
But you've missed my main point. I'm not bothered about music I've never heard, only the music that I have listened to.
*missing point face*
I think I have. Don't understand the last bit. If you're not bothered about music you've never heard, how do you decide what you're going to listen to (as in new stuff)? That's the point of the thread, really.
Me, I use (broadly) genre to narrow down my options. I'm open to a lot of genres, luckily, so I still get a pretty eclectic (yuk word) cross-section. But if you don't use genre as at least a general guide, how do you narrow it all down? There's millions of records released every year.
Genuinely interested, because I can't imagine how it could be done without some recourse to genre.
Recommendations mainly
I'm very fortunate in that I have a couple of close but older friends who I've known for over 20 years who are even more into music than me and who have a knack for pointing me in different directions. Their knowledge is encyclopedic. I don't like everything they suggest but the hit rate is consistently high. And they, in turn, are still excited about new music so it's a bug we share. We fall over ourselves to share new music with each other.
I think it's also a disposition I have that was nurtured through my childhood years moving around the country a lot and experiencing the many different regional cultures of this island nation. I experienced mod and soul in London, heavy rock and prog in Somerset, punk and post punk in Scotland, New Wave and electronic pop music in Surrey, indie and dance music in Wales and pretty much everything else at Uni and thereafter. I may have moved on physically but musically I take everything with me. It's been a constant.
I've always liked the great outdoors and the relationship between my love of nature and love of music has crossed over many times. I think that's why I love music that goes off in directions that aren't clearly signposted. I've always been inclined to go off the beaten track and to look at well known landmarks from a different angle or perspective.
Finally I love ideas and acquiring a working understanding of them and where they come from. Great music for me is stuffed full of great ideas that you can visit over and over again and take something new from with each listen. I listen to jazz and prog and revel in the ideas the musicians generate but there are great ideas in a simple pop song as well. That's why I love The Beatles so much: they filtered ideas so well into 3 minutes, in itself a wondeful achievement. That's why it's content over form (i.e. genre) every time for me.
Interesting - thanks for that.
It's funny, isn't it, where different people get gratification for their different needs? Music isn't where I go for "ideas": music is where I go for a more visceral thrill than that. Music - or at least popular music - is all about the heart, for me, and the only "head" part is served by the lyrics. I don't go to music, on a day-to-day basis, to take on new ideas.
I'm a natural compartmentaliser. Stuff goes in boxes - occasionally linked boxes, but boxes nonetheless. I can't listen to music when I'm working. I can't listen to music when I'm trying to have a conversation. It doesn't touch on every part of my life; not even close. Music will always be pretty much "only music", to me. It's not utterly central the way it was when I was a kid.
I guess that's why I have no problem with categorising by genre. I do have a problem with uninformed genre snobbery, but I don't think there's any harm in categorising per se, if it helps.
Don't get me wrong
I listen to The Pixies these days but 20+ years ago I threw myself at The Pixies, sweated and bled for them at concerts and on the dance floor. I'm a bit too old and out of shape to do that today.
I don't just listen to music for ideas but it is the search for ideas that is a signficant driver for my seeking out and listening to new music. I listen to music I've known for years for many other reasons often just to enjoy the familiarity or to forget a crap day.
Music isn't central to my life. My family is and then my friends. Music is central to my idea of enjoying life along with many other pursuits. Music makes me feel better about myself because it reminds me of what has been good in my life and what it is that excites me about life. You know, "life" as that abstract idea that often gets lost in the routine of existing. Music reminds me of the difference between existing and living because it frees up my mind and soul of the crap you have to do and refills it with beauty, thrills and the infinite wonder of what life can be.
Crumbs.
That's lovely. I'm a little envious of the relationship you have with it.
Only child
who moved around a lot growing up with very loving parents who love music.
That's the root of where my relationship with music comes from. I've never taken it for granted as a result.
My love of great music can be quite intense. It's emotionally exhausting sometimes if I listen to certain music. Shostakovich's 5th Symphony or the second side of The Hounds of Love leave me drained.
Whereas...
...I'm a fundamentally frivolous, shiftless, indolent little brother, almost incapable of taking anything seriously until it's too late, and in love pretty much exclusively with the surfaces of things. (Not entirely joking.)
Right. Anyone for Kierkegaard?
Surfaces
can go pretty deep Bob.
(adopts Jimmy Saville voice)
"Now Zen! Now Zen!"
Ha ha
"Dear Jim,
Please can you fix it for me to attain enlightenment through a daily liturgy service involving myself and Nicola Roberts.
Thanks
Bob"
I have a letter here from some kiddies
Dear Jim
Our dad, Bob, is desperately trying to cling on to his youth by listening to pop music. Could you fix it for him to listen to some seminal and important records so he can be normal?
Love
Boblets
-----
Now then, now then, then now, now then, now etc
I don't need to cling onto it, Dave...
...unlike some I could mention. I'm still effortlessly youthful. ;-)
"effortlessly youthful"
round here tends to mean - still has own hair
Yes!
And with minimal greying, too! I'm actually the same age as Our Lord, when he died. Although it's not for me to compare myself to Christ.
That is for other people
to say. Ahhhhhhh
Well...
...you're both certainly bigger than Jesus....
Now look
I wasn't comparing Bob to Jesus Christ the person, or a thing or whatever it was. i just said what I said and it was wrong, or taken wrong and now there's all this.
Too late
the KKK are already burning copies of The Word as we speak
M looking for companionship, poss. more!
Me: I'm my own boss and my company makes software from open source technologies. I work in an environment where openness and making things accessible is paramount alongside an inate willingness to defer to new and different ideas in the expectation and belief that by doing so it will make the product and the service better.
You: Big "bazzongas".
That's made me laugh
out loud. Cheers. I'm writing a very dull response to an invitation to tender and I needed a loud guffaw.
Ah Bob, if only you'd been at the Half Moon on the 14th...
..."As I told Burt in another thread a few days ago, my default position is that I like concise music with tunes, and ideally with the ability to make me either want to dance, or to want to jump up and down and push my friends over..."
You would have seen this lot...
For me, despite dabbling in many genres and really trying, in the end it all just boils down to uncomplicated three minute power pop with catchy tunes and harmonies that stick in my brain and "make me want to jump up and down and push my friends over" as you brilliantly summed up Bob.
I'm at the st/age where I just want energy, fun and a bit of oomph! Life's too short to be bored shitless by dreary music! Have this bonus track as a little gift to brighten up your day...check out the harmonica on this baby...