More ***** Reviews
I need to get this off my chest. It's that time of the month when my subscription copies of Q magazine and Mojo drop onto my doormat, to be followed a week or so later by the Word. I enjoy the articles in each, but to feed my quest for that next musical hit, I am always particularly interested in the album reviews.
So here's the contentious bit. I really value the fact that some magazines and papers give their reviews a star rating. And I miss this in the Word.
I use the ratings to identify anything I should be listening to or buying. I scan the reviews for a favourite artist or anything with 5 stars (a cross reference with other magazines and the weekly / weekend papers gives a good sanity check on whether an album’s worth buying). I also use the ratings to identify reviews worth reading. 5-star or 1-star reviews are usually (but not always) worth a look, whereas I’m pretty sure I’m not going to get much from the 3-star review of the latest Snow Patrol album.
I know Word HQ makes a point of not having star ratings, but I'm not sure I appreciate the arguments. Is it because there is a perception that it devalues the writing (the excellence of the writing in the Word is a given). Is the view that if a review has 3 stars we will skip that carefully-written piece on the latest mediocre offering from some second-rate indie band? Or is it that, as the Word is a better magazine than the others, it doesn't need these 'easy' measures of an album's worth.
Whatever the arguments, I know I’m shallow and superficial, but I can't help it, I like star ratings.
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What do they mean?
Are the stars relative to the artist's previous work? Compared with their most direct competitors? To denote whether the discerning record buyer should buy it or steer clear? To indicate how many tracks should be copied over to your iPod? And what's the scale? Is it ghastly to orgasmically great or just rather poor to pretty good?
So many questions to resolve, surely it's quicker just to read the review, isn't it?
The new Q
has an interesting sidebar on the Metallica album review. They list the songs from their back catalogue that they recommend downloading. Basically they give you a Best Of playlist. Excellent idea. I really, really like this idea for all full page album reviews.
I don't care...
I know the star ratings are subjective, but so are the unstarred reviews in Word. It works for me.
But but but
The star rating itself has no context. So you read the review anyway, to understand why they gave it that number of stars. So why need the star rating in the first place?
For the same reason. . .
a packet of fish fingers has a picture of fish fingers on it, despite the words "FISH FINGERS" being printed in big capital letters, I suppose - because they can.
Fish Fingers
Also deploy a star system for how long you can keep them in the freezer.
Suits me that
"This Oasis album is past it's use by date - please discard"
I keep my Oasis albums
in the freezer. They may keep longer but I forget they're there at least.
I'm not sure....
....whether this plea will reach any ears unsullied by the previous ventings of opinion, Handsome*, as it really does seem that an awful lot of the Word reading folk prefer an absence of stars, and in an also deliberately small number of reviews. There will be the usual gush of dismay at your post, I suspect. However, given your wider reading, and, it seems, that of many of our compadres, most of us are devouring all we can, and so will gain reinforcement of our preconceptions from somewhere eventually.
(*Its a long time since I've referred directly to anyone by your soubriquet of choice, it's curiously liberating....)
Here's a star rating system
Just imagine everything has three stars.
Maybe....
...Word could have a star rating that goes up to 11.
I will...
I apologise if I missed this in previous blog threads, but I am genuinely interested in why the Word does not use a star rating system. The lack of star ratings is not going to change the fact that the Word is my favourite magazine, but why did you decide not to use them when you started it?
How about a scoring system A through to D- ?*
Having a star system or out of ten will automatically prejudice the readers view of any album. Journalists can then turn out pre-hashed stereotypical stanzas in the knowledge that the reader will look at the big number or stars first.
I LIKE the fact that the Word doesn't carry a star review as if its marking a piece of homework, leaving the viewer to make up their own mind through the words on the page.
Stars? zzzzzz...
I care not whether word has star ratings or not, although it would probably mean I would have to invest slightly less energy in a review if there was a handy rating at the end of it and I'm a lazy bugger so I'll slip off the fence onto that of the debate.
But not stars, that's booooorrrrring. Metal Hammer have fists, Kerrang have Ks, what could Word have? Ws? Richard Thompsons perhaps? Wire boxsets?
No stars, no problem
But I do get irritated when a review contains basically the press release or a review of the band's history. Or if it clear that the reviewer is never likely to appreciate that type of music/artist. At least the 70s/80s trend is over for reviews where you end up reading and re-reading and ask yourself: 'so, is it any good?'
Stars in their eyes
Like the TV programme stars are irrelevant. Record Collector gave a 2 star review to a cd I had just ordered - it kind of dimmed my eager anticipation of receiving my new purchase. I needn't have worried I was right, they were wrong. Trust your own instincts over that of the professionals as they are like Wall Street Bankers - they get it wrong!!
I prefer this..
method of scoring. As shown below by The Word review committee.
L-R: Rob, Kate, Mark, Dave.
I am too short to be seen above the table.
Don't
be putting yourself down young man.
That's our job.
Non-'star'ter
A review isn't fact or the definitive truth about an album; it's one person's opinion of it. Giving a star rating to something is quantifying its quality, which is surely subjective either. I would suggest that star ratings tend to get assumed to be the opinion (or score) of the magazine in general, whereas non-star reviews are much more impersonal. For example, if I were talking to someone about a new release, I would say:
"Q magazine (or Uncut or whoever) gave it x stars"
but
"Kate Mossman (or Matt Hall or whoever) said it was great/awful/a fair effort"
My point being getting rid of stars means you have to read the review (which is a good thing, journalists would prefer to have their pieces read I assume) and you see a review more for what it is.
I think the only time a star-rating system could work is something like the ratings on Lovefilm, where the star-rating given is the average star-rating given based on data from hundreds of users.
ratings by crowds
are worse as they all tend to average out to some middling score
In my experience they're worse for a different reason,
which is that fans pile in with five-star reviews, often before they've even heard the record. Look up the new Oasis album on Amazon for a few examples of this.
What do we use reviews for ?
At the end of the day it depends what you want from the review. Personally a good or bad review of an album by and artist that I like is not going to change my decision on whether I will buy that album.
Any reviewer has a certain "taste" in music and if its a artist / group / genre that they simply do not have an affinity for, they will never give a good review, making a whole mockery of any ratings system. I have seen this often with "unfashionable" artists (Genesis are a great example) in some lesser magazines. I'm sure the logistics of matching albums for review with the "correct" reviewer are far too complex to manage.
What I do like to see from reviews is that on artists that I am not familiar with, the review gives me a feel for what to expect and not necessarily how good it is. One of the few good things that Q did was have the sidebars that stated "if you like this, try this...", which very simply gave me an immediate impression of the album.
The other question on reviews is that with the advent of Amazon etc etc and the multitude of comments for each album, which is more valid - the "professional" (and maybe biased) review of a music journalist or the voice of the people. Although much like opinion polls, the ones that can be bothered to leave comments tend to be those with strong opinions (i.e. hardcore fans). And it still puzzles me how people can post reviews on Amazon weeks before the album is released........
Either they or their mates
work for EUK, or some similar distributor, or the record company, and have access to promo copies, that's all.
Sometimes the release date will be set back after the promos have gone out, and sometimes, the album never makes the shops at all.
This is a bit tangential but ...
...does anyone remember David Hepworth's Q review of the Genesis back catalogue when it first came out on CD? I think brutal is the word that springs to mind. One and two star ratings were rather liberally sprinkled over some of the finest prog. in history, while, incredulously, Invisible Touch was deemed worthy of five stars. Each to their own, as they say.
Yeah but...
whatever happened to him after he left Q? It was probably all downhill after that faux pas...
Glad you can remember what I thought
Because I can't.
So you mean
Hoarding those old Q's for definative reviews counts for nothing!
Now I've heard everything.
Good one DH.
Yes, well...
...it was something of a character assassination of one of my favourite bands. Which I'm sure was great fun to write.
Oh dear
I've spent £5 on the Durutti Column best of on your recommendation and now I find out you like Genesis....
There's no accounting for taste
Have you had a chance to listen to the DC album yet? Be interested to hear what you think.
It's on it's way
I'll give it a good listen and then post a review and submit it on the downloads page. Least I can do for DC if they're not getting the space in the mag I reckon.
aye, and give it some stars.
mate.
Nope
Because you'll be able to work out what I think by reading it.
I don't remember it but this I can promise
It wasn't a "character assasination". I remember when I wrote those.
Funnily enough I remember that vividly.
I was at university when I read Dave's Genesis review, and remember thinking how brave/suicidal it was for a magazine that was clearly for people who liked bands like that to take such an unsentimental view of them. I also thought it was a great piece of writing.
A couple of months later I was round at Dave's office begging for a job. He told me to go back and finish my course instead, so I did. Funny old world etc etc.
I think it was Uncut, though it might have been Q,
who reviewed The Platinum Collection by Genesis (a 3CD Best Of). It was a one paragraph two star review. I got the impression that they hadn't bothered to listen to more than the first three songs on disc one.
If that's the case...
...as I recall it went chronologically backwards in releases so the first 3 tracks on Disc One were probably not worth 2 stars. Disc Three is ***** by anyone's standards.
Here's another
vote for stars.
If I see a review of an act I've never heard of, I'll be honest, I generally ignore it. Now if it had 4 or 5 stars above it that would probably pique my interest and it's likely I would read it (or even 1 star - nothing as entertaining as a good hatchet job!).
noooooo
This morning I read DH's review of the animated elephant/dope/ shagging animal rights/ profanity peppered movie - (forgot it's name - did you guess that?) and it was hilair!
If he'd given it two stars I would never have read it.
Here's an idiotic idea....
Start a feature on the Word website where us punters can affect the star rating of an album release. To be egalitarian, each album starts off with a ***** star rating and this then either drops or remains constant as each vote comes in.
It would be amusing to see what would happen to the new Oasis album...
Only flaw in the plan is
that I'd have to listen to the new Oasis album which I'm disinclined to do.
you'd only have to listen if you wanted to vote
I quite like Patricks idea. If beside the user generated 'stars' there's a running tally of the number of votes cast, that'll tell you the level of interest in it too. Thus, to take the 'christ-not-more-pot-shots-at-Oasis-yawnfest' example aforesaid, if there's 5 stars beside it, but zero votes, then you're not being misled as such, 'cos you know that 5 stars is the default setting until somebody marks it down or lets it stay where it is.
I like the idea of stars 'somewhere'; I don't expect, actually, a Word reviewer to tell us how 'good' an album is, because
a) 'good' is subjective in a lot of cases (hello joanna newsom) and
b) a lot of albums need time to settle.
It would be nice if the posters around here could pitch in with their own thoughts, in words or stars, as the weeks and months roll by.
Of course the whole thing is open to wholescale abuse Amazon style, so maybe best left alone.
The abuse...
would be the reason for doing it! Which act would receive the most abuse?!
hah - apropos of nothing
i remember in a previous job a rather pernickety consultant arrived one day to run through some McGubbins called ISO 9000. Anyway, it was utterly soul destroying and after he'd sodded off, we headed to the pub across the road where my boss couldn't believe what an arse this guy had been.
"He's written the definitive book in this area, you know"
"Has he?" quoth I, getting up from my seat
"oh, getting the drinks in are you?"
"I've ordered a Guinness and while it's settling, I'm off to review his book on Amazon"
I know I wasn't the only one to give him a drunken 'one star' that evening.
The abuse would be great
and I'd like to read that. But not that its a 1 star album. Why's that interesting? Slag 'em off with words not numbers.
at risk of taking this slightly seriously
you would only buy an album if your probably going to like it. So the scores would effectively be the views of people who have a disposition toward the artist (or those that genuinely dislike an artist).
I'm not shelling out £8 so that I can say the new Oasis album is mediocre (it may not be of course - I shall read the Word review and stream a bit if it seems worth it). So stuff will either get 4 or 5 stars or 1 or none (a la Amazon in general).
Danny Kelly
When he was working on Football365, he used to get very tetchy in the discussion forum when people mentioned that, as Editor of Q, he didn't even review The Stone Roses album when it came out, never mind giving it a bad one. He presided over Q magazine missing baggy/Madchester and was always playing just-too-late catch-up.
I think that's quite refreshing...
as personally I believe 'The Stone Roses' to be one of the most overrated albums of all time. That is not to say it isn't good, just that it is not an all-time classic.
In terms of influence...
...though, it was The Velvet Underground & Nico for a generation. Blur and Oasis owe their careers to it and think of everything that followed them (albeit plenty of shite).
And I don't agree that it is overrated.
Danny wasn't at Q when 'The Stone Roses' came out.
He was editing NME in the late 80s, and I think it was NME that didn't review the album. He started on Q in 1992 I think. I don't think you could accuse NME of missing out on baggy – it was Mondays/Roses O'Clock for about two solid years there and in fact the Danny/Collins/Maconie/James Brown NME has a strong claim on making baggy.
Of course Danny's Q was a little behind the Mighty Select on spotting BritPop (at least until he pinched all my staff...).
nme roses review
i distinctly remember the Roses review was 7/10 cos we'd been playing it in the office and raving about it , when the nme arrived.
"Should there be stars in word reviews" HPW 2008
**
Though well stated, this style of argument has been somewhat oveplayed of late, and it is the sound of nothing new that is the most memorable thing about it. Whilst the originator is obviously a decent enough cove, it would be more refreshing for his supporters and protagonists to have half an ear on the alternatives. This years Blur vs Oasis, when the answer all along may be Tindersticks.
If you like this you'll love: Cover Star Guessing /Editors (don't care records)
Download :
http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/whats-wrong-with-stars
(Sorry if this sounds a tad sarky, not meaning to put off newer readers but this one is the most frequent bus round these parts)
Thanks Rethropath, but...
I like to think I'm a decent enough cove (certainly Mrs Wonderful thinks so). I accept that my preference for star ratings is superficial and clearly most of the responses here do not support me. But reading through the posts and the previous thread you include (I'd not seen that prior to you pointing it out), I'm still not sure of the crux of the argument against them. In fact there's a slight whiff of snobbishness in the fact that the Word doesn't have them (I'm all for a bit of snobbishness, by the way).
I'm actually in the minority...
...along with you, of seeing no harm in a star rating, hence the weedy effort of a star rated review of the comment, aimed, I guess or hope, not at you for raising it, but the likely pointlessness of so doing, given the plethora of previous diatribes against the evil of trying to rationalise an opinion into a comparable parameter.And I would like more reviews of music. There are more, fer chrissake, in Observer Music Monthly, not that I suggest any worth in most of them. But hey, ho, back to the important stuff, politicians(!?) in swimsuits and the Wire.
I have stacks of time for snobbery, unless its by poor people, when its a bit common.
You're right...
I can never see enough posts about the Wire.
You look at the stars?
When I read reviews I rarely notice the stars if they are there, it's all subjective and a marks-out-of-five idea is pretty meaningless. Why not buy less magazines and read all the reviews?
If anyone is interested...
... the star/vote thing is already well established at http://www.rateyourmusic.com/
This Thread
*** out of 5.
Sorry Mr Drayton
I don't read 3-star posts. Now, if it had been 5 stars or 1 star, it would have had my full attention
So...
The magazine that devoted 50 pages to Oasis last month, have used two to tell us all what we'd expected. The new album is another lukewarm slab of 'will this do?' Then we have a cover feature on AC/DC, a lead Metallica album review and they've now bugled that Bat Out Of Hell is a classic song (!) in their annual 'let's hand something out to whoever's in the country' awards. Shame. I used to love it, but the continuing sledgehammering of the big and bland has turned it into one of the worst wastes of paper ever
I like star reviews
but only because if something's got one or two stars then I want to know why. Five stars are often predictable. Look at Heat magazine (if you dare - I browse for work) - everything gets four or five stars. It makes a mockery of the star system. It could hardly be relied upon for serious critical judgment. It knows what its readers like and rates accordingly. So why the need for the stars at all?
I prefer
my stars being interviewed for the magazine features and not in the backend of the mag.