Jackson Saxon and Swells. I read of the latter last night then wondered who'd make the numbers up. Bit of a shock this morning though. Michael Jackson was not name that would be on the celebrity death sweep list in the office. No one can doubt his impact for all the failings. I remember my first ever holiday abroad in 1987. The room below was populated by five lads from Norway who invited us down to party with the classic line "hey you guys, we have beer, we have whiskey and we have Bad by Michael Jackson" How could you resist

was reportedly only contracted to appear onstage for 13 minutes a night at the O2 shows, maybe they could still go ahead, they'd just be 13 minutes shorter, no?

Was quite shocked when hearing sketchy news late last night, but it was true. Granted he may have been famous for many other things in his life, but theres no denying the massive impact he had in music over the years; Thriller is just an outstanding pinnacle which influenced so many other records afterwards and still sounds fantastic today!

Sad day for music, rest in peace MJ.

I'm not a big fan, I think the only stuff of his I have is Motown era but he was a massive piece of the pop jigsaw and I think I'll probably remember where I was when I heard the news and how I heard it.

yet without surprise. Much the same age as me, OK a year younger, I recall the TOTPs with his brothers, Rocking Robin being the song running thru' my head this morning. I could never define myself as a fan, indeed, as he transmogrified from, if you forgive my old fashioned and unpolitically correct phraseology, delightful picaninny to awkward Frankensteins monster, he became increasingly ridiculous to my eyes. I couldn't stand the yelps and the crotch hugging yet couldn't look away, secretly adding all those golden period songs to my i-pod, Thriller, Billie Jean, Don't Stop etc etc etc. A ridiculous latterday figure, but yes, was so that other southern boy made good, alluded to above in Davids eulogy, alongside whom only the truly miserable would deny him a place.
Medication related heart attack they are today saying..... How much indemnity insurance must thease american showbiz medics have? If I killed as many patients as do they seem to with their medication...... Or is this, as I suspect, merely euphemism?
Maybe he did just stop when he had enough.

The media response has been predictably over-the-top.

When the news broke at about 10:45pm on Radio Five, excitable young radio pup Richard Bacon spent the next 2 hours engaging in the most absurd sweeping generalisations, exaggerations and purile comparisons.

This was, we were repeatedly told, a 'JFK' and/or 'Diana' moment. I suspect that if a caller had compared Jackson's death to 9/11 or the fall of the Berlin Wall, Bacon would have gone with it. (I suppose if you are going to dedicate over two hours of national public service broadcasting to tabloid exaggeration and sentimentality, you are going to be reluctant to talk the story down.)

The fact that Thriller has sold over 40 million copies was held to be 'very significant'. The lasting cultural significance of the album genuinely escapes me. The idea that high sales must (simply must!) be more than financially significant is widely asserted - but rarely argued.

When was the last time you read or heard a contemporary musician say they were inspired/influenced by Jackson? I can't think of any.

Elvis made black music for white kids and then middle-aged housewives. So did Jackson.

a well-known figure in popular culture can die and not be eligible for instant canonisation?

I'm not disputing his talent, but there's no doubt he wasted what he had and became something far less than he should have been. For the most part, entirely by his own hand.

Tragically, he won't be the last to go down that path. I feel sorry for him, but not enough to hide my cynicism at the behaviour of most of the media - I think David got it about right. And the spectacle that will surround his death will be far more aawful than anything we could imagine.

I for one feel sorry for the bloke

Yes fame and stardom was his , he blew it all away ,health, money ,credibility ,morals probably etc.

Can't help thinking the only time he ever felt happy was dancing and singing and for so many years he never did that.

Reckon he was happy - from childhood onwards.Of course not. And now he is dead at a mere 50.

After the plastic surgery, the wives & kids, the oxygen chamber, the skeleton of the Elephant Man, the "allegations", the bankruptcy and the comeback-that-never-was, the media will be all over this like nothing since 9/11... be prepared for the tell-all biographies, the abused kids coming out of the woodwork, the re-release programme, the new album...

Me, I just hope that amazing little boy who sang "I Want You Back" is at peace.

He was undoubtedly a great singer with some classic musical moments. Some of the Jackson 5 and early solo stuff is perfect pop. For me, however, his music was overshadowed by his lifestyle. I know he wasn't convicted for anything he was accused of, but if you follow the old maxim "there's no smoke without fire", with Michael Jackson there was an awful lot of smoke.

..they've dragged onto radio 4?

commenting on Michael Jackson

But I guess I'm just too old. The people now in positions of power in the media, politics and generally were probably the age to have danced to Thriller in their teens and twenties. This is why we'll see staggeringly over-the-top coverage for the next few days.

I think it's who you grew up with. I was genuinely sad when Keith Moon died. And John Lennon (since a little reevaluated). Michael Jackson? Loved his work with the Jackson 5 and can see he turned out some good tunes later on. But, by and large, he passed me by.

Mark Ellen has asserted on The Today Programme (in the 8:10 slot - what on earth is Radio 4 thinking of!!!) that Jackson is among the ten most significant recording artists of all time.

Ok Mark, which of the following ten would you remove from this list and replace with Michael Jackson?

1. Bob Dylan
2. Van Morrison
3. The Beatles
4. Frank Sinatra
5. The Beach Boys
6. Stevie Wonder
7. David Bowie
8. Bob Marley
9. Miles Davis
10. Bruce Springsteen

Let's all take a deep breath, calm down, and try to avoid saying things we will be embarrassed by in a few months time....

"He's 50 but he's going to dance his ass off."

It was only going to end in tears. The industry will take over now.

Plans to turn Neverland into a museum of his life? Check. Disney to bring back the 3D film Captain Eo in Epcot? Hope so. Souvenir manufacturers on overtime? Check. Rumours about him faking his own death? Started last night. A real appreciation of his early musical talent will increase? Definitely.

Saddest part of it all for me is this is day that his young children will start to lose their own identities and any chance of a normal life - well as normal as could be expected as the children of Michael Jackson. Sure the lawyers are queueing up now to represent them and their mothers. Just keep them away from their grandparents...

Not surprisingly, his death was the talk of the tea room at 8am this morning and will be for the rest of the day. It is quite sad news, but I was more upset reading Steven Swell’s last few columns yesterday.Really schocked, he’s the kind of guy you think will be with us for ages. Back to Jacko though, the last time I was out in a club in Scarborough I was having a depressing night, listening to the dire music, until the night was saved and the DJ played “Thriller”, it still sounds great and the night was saved.

Universal/Sony to release a 2CD Best Of do you think? I give it a week...

megastardom meant something and he filled the Presley/Lennon vacuum. Personally, I didn't care for the music, but having seen many a dance floor fill to 'Billie Jean' et al I guess the guy had something. Also I suspect also that he (or his artistic advisors) laid the foundations for the stadium spectaculars favoured by so many bands and artistes today.

He was never going to pop his clogs at 83 lolling in the corner of Aunt Mabel's Home for Aged Popstars so perhaps now is the best time to bow out. The O2 shows would have been picked over more as a freak-fest than contemporary entertainment and there would invariably have been more allegations of impropriety and financial mismanagement.

We are in for a collective media mope and some syrupy sentimentality (I've already had to turn off Nicky Campbell's sanctimonious waffle after about five minutes this morning), but beyond that let's just look at Jackson as someone with more talent than most of us could aspire to and who failed, as many others have, to withstand the trappings of fame without going totally off his trolly.

Will I rush out and buy some of his music? No. Do I feel sentimental? No. And will my life be affected by his demise? No. In the words of Patrick's post yesterday ... Gimme Shelter

I'm 22 and Michael Jackson was my greatest idol as a child. I admired him so much and was a true fan. His death is impacting on me so much because I had this personal relationship with him in my own way as a child, I loved him and kept loving him as I grew up to be a lover of all music. His relevance in my life changed from a figure to admire to a fantastic musician. Only people who didn't have that respect for him feel the need to discuss his life to the bitter end. I'm just going to listen to Dangerous instead of all this fruitless debate.

the news when I woke her for school, and about an hour later she said to me,'when I first heard that Michael Jackson had died I was was glad because he won't be able to scare me anymore, but then I thought what if he comes back like one of the dancers from his Thriller video? That's even scarier'! Funny and sad. I prefer to remember him from one of my favourite Jackson 5 songs which also happens to include one of the best bass lines of all time!

Whats the difference between Michael Jackson & Sir Alex Ferguson ?

Fergie will be playing Giggs sometime this year....

. . . our Foreign Secretary, that nice Mr Miliband, joining in on his Twitter feed re the death of the so-called King Of Pop. Has he really not got anything better to do? Like ordering gunboats or something? Still, good pub quiz detail for years to come. What links Seething Wells, Charlie's Angels and the moonwalk? Fingers on the buzzers etc.

When so much hyperbole has already been written and said about Jackson, a level-headed appraisal is truly needed.

Fundamentally, Jackson's death is a far bigger loss to the world of celebrity than it ever could be to the world of music.

He was very frail and those shows were never going to happen anyway. I'm not a fan, though I don't mind things like Got To Be There, Ben and Rockin' Robin.

I'm not a disco fan.

Someone in our office is one of those queue overnight join in a vigil type of mad fan. Needless to say, he's not in today.

The interesting thing about the reaction to Michael Jackson‘s death is how some people don’t get what all the fuss is about. This is perfectly understandable. Michael Jackson made disco music. And unless you were going through the mating ritual at “discos” between, roughly, 1975 and 1995, it may be hard to understand why his records resonate so much.
And what weird records they are. Michael Jackson never did “I wanna put on my boogie shoes and boogie with you”. He didn’t do “Good Times”. His records are full of paranoia, insecurity, fear, guilt etc. They’re not much fun. Which may be why, subconsciously, they resonate with people for whom the mating ritual acted out at “discos” wasn’t as much fun as it was cracked up to be either.
Personally, I always breathed a sigh of relief when “Give It Up“ by KC came on.

But I can't imagine C.S. Lewis or Aldous Huxley (d. 22 November 1963) got much of a look-in either...

[edit: oops, should be a lot further up the thread]

Has anyone interviewed Jarvis yet?

The news makes me think about John Updike's comment, that celebrity is a mask which eats into the face of the wearer - in Michael Jackson's case that's almost literally true. It seems like a wasted life if only because he showed how it was possible to be so talented, and yet lack any real wisdom, right up to the end. And is anybody really surprised it ended like this? You can't take painkillers like they're smarties and not expect to do some serious damage to yourself. In his own way, he's as much a rock and roll casualty as Elvis or Jim Morrison.

Archie is spot on further up the thread - it's nice to see some appreciation of the music, rather than all the usual lurid celebrity nonsense. I loved the idea of all those fans dancing and Moonwalking in LA, because that's got to be a better response than moping around because someone they had no direct link to has passed on. The last thing we need is another Diana-style outpouring of grief.

Thriller & Off The Wall. Let's hope he is remembered for them and not the sad freak show that followed.

A sad day for music, up there with the passing of Elvis & Lennon.

It may change colour to a white one later in the day.

My favourite memories of Jacko as an artist, rather than a freak show, stem from that period when he went Imperial.

One was the legendary rubber-legged Motown Anniversary performance. Alright, he was miming but as soon as he did THAT dance move gobs were well and truly smacked. I remember calling my mum in to watch it. She curtly dismissed it with "Huh, Fred Astaire could do that".

Then there's the media event that was the release of the 'Thriller' video. I recall it being premiered late one Friday night on C4 and the rumours were that it was something special (remember this was in the days when a bit of a slow motion effect in a video was state-of-the-art). And of course, it was - instantly setting the benchmark against which all pop videos must be judged. The fact that they had Big Brother contestants trying to emulate the zombie dance 25 years later shows how much it has entered into folk memory.

That said, musically I don't think he ever topped 'Off The Wall'. Despite my advancing years (and no matter how light on your feet you were, when you get into your 40s you will dance like A Dad), 'Don't Stop' can still drag me onto the floor like I'm in the grip of a tractor beam. The whoop followed by Quincey's ecstatic string run must surely be one of the most perfect moments in pop music.

You could say that the whiter his skin became, the less essential his music was. But that would probably be simplistic.

please take my strong advice; remember to always think twice.

Sad to see him go I suppose. But I'm afraid neither he nor his music meant anything at all to me.

ever see him in concert? I did back in the 80s at Wembley and it was sublime. It was the first non-rock gig I'd been to and to be part of what was in essence a dance-floor packed with many thousands of people was pretty uplifting. He may have been a bit of a fuck-up but he was a great entertainer and one of the most gifted vocalists around. I also suspect he was one of the most manipulated and abused artists in the history of rock and pop.

..across the world greater than any other musician? I can only think of Bob Marley having a similar level of awareness pretty much wherever you travelled.

I am 'completely off my tree' because The Beach Boys were more of an influence to me than Jacko was. Are we not allowed our own taste anymore? To set the record straight I have 2 Beach Boys albums and no Jacko albums. Let us be honest here Michael Jackson was as much noted for his entirely weird behaviour as for his music and dance. Witnessed by the fact that I have had 17 Michael Jackson jokes texted to me already this am but not one text mourning the death of this icon. Apparently Amazon top 15 music sales today are all Michael Jackson cd's. Why was this not the case yesterday? The nations fawning over someone who has tragically died prematurely is, to be quite honest,a joke. Someone on BBC today described this as 'The day the music died'. It is of course no such thing. I would also seriously contend that Michael Jackson never was a musician but was a performer. Two very different things. I accept that he was loved by millions but for those that do not count ourselves amongst those millions - are we not allowed a view? Our opinions muzzled for the sake of preserving the legend?

I was editing Smash Hits and he was in town for a dinner thrown by his record company to celebrate his all-round fabness. The Mansion House or somewhere like that, must have been around 87/88. We all had to line up like at a Royal Variety Show and he was then brought along the line and introduced to each and every one of us. He said hello to me in that familiar high-pitched tone and I remember that his handshake was predictably light. Er, that's it.

and all the inventions, monstrosities, myths, visions, revisions, metaphors and allegories can all begin.

One thing that that tends to be overlooked is that he actually wrote many of his best and most well known songs.

Billie Jean, Don't Stop, Beat it to name only three. That puts him up there with the greatet writers of pop.

His phrasing, falsetto, vibrato, lightness and strength as required made him as good as a singer as there has ever been in pop.

He could dance with the grace of Fred Astaire and the athleticism of Michael Jordan.

And he commanded the world stage from the age of 8 to his death at 50.

Talented, it's fair to say

Michael - and Farah too, I feel like a part of me has died today

I'm going to have a blackcurrant Spangle and bounce around on my space hopper for a bit

And then wipe away a tear or two

it's one of the happiest most engaging few bars of music I know. One the best teenage parties I ever went to was soundtracked by the thriller lp being played 2-3 times. including turning all the lights completely off for "thriller" it self and doing stupid scary dances and screaming the lyrics (we were only 12-13) it was truly joyful.
It was strange in the pub last night as someone put the telly on but we couldn't see the screen and I watched as one lass just started crying and the news spread round the room truly an odd moment.

Oh for crying out loud. This pathetic outpouring of grief from hysterical sheep. The bigger the name the more the hysteria. Unfortunately it's been like this for decades. Rudolph Valentino's death in 1926 provoked scenes of mass hysteria - I can't wait for the reported suicides of despondent fans - right through to the Royal Whore Diana, where unfortunately there were no reported suicides.
Let's hope there's such an outpouring of joy when Margaret Thatcher dies.

she was not particularly surprised or shocked to hear that he had died but similarly would not be particularly surprised or shocked to hear tomorrow that he hadn't.

He had become so much a media freak show that it is easy to lose sight of what he used to be, and what he achieved. I immediately think of the various videos from 'Thriller' - he really did open the door for black artists on MTV, and define an entire genre for those who came after.

At the moment an artists peaks he or she is by definition doomed to fail to repeat that success. That said, in the face of the pressure of the O2 gigs and comeback trail generally this starts to look like a tragically perfect end to a career.

to use such abroad brush to dismiss others peoples behaviour out of hand.

I've never been moved to tears by a pop star's death and never will. Closest I ever came was when Kirsty MacColl died. It's not like I knew these people.

Yes, he leave a legacy of some nice disco music, but really, wasn't it just all a bit showy and over-produced?

That said, I love the intros to Got To Be There and I'll Be There.

Surely California's health and safety legislation would forbid burying or cremating Jackson's corpse? It would be an environmental disaster! As it can't possibly decompose by natural methods, the party who undertook to indemnify for losses of his O2 stint could exhibit it on stage for the contracted 13 minutes a night and try to recoup some of their losses.

...just started his radio show with Mr. Bojangles.

Michael Jackson died when he went into the barmy.

Is there any other musical figure still with us, whose passing could cause such a commotion on such a scale? Commanding the front page of every single newspaper from Sitka to Sydney and all points in between.

Macca? Maybe
Dylan? possibly the nearest thing to Jackson in the sense of how he impacted on populist culture...

That's it really isn't it? Wow.......!

Michael Jackson's shows at London's 02 arena WILL go ahead, say promoters.

'Michael Jackson: Messiah' will celebrate the life of the People's Prince of Pop with MICHAEL's recorded VOICE playing over LIVE-ISH backing tracks while PROFESSIONAL dancer HAND-PICKED by MICHAEL before he was tragically murdered by the CIA will perform three hours of dance routines which the 50-year-old invalid would DEFINITELY have done himself if he hadn't been tragically poisoned by jealous rival promoters.

The show culminates with an exclusive NEW SONG, 'Bless you, My Children' EXCLUSIVELY CHANNELLED from beyond the grave by MICHAEL's 'friend' Uri Gellar.

Existing ticket sales will be honoured. No refunds. Read the small print, suckers. Bring your own glove.

It was the CIA, the FBI and a guy down the chip shop who swear he's Santo Trafficante

As I earlier said, I am no fan, tho' I have the roster of many of the massive hits between the Jackson 5 and up to mid or late 80s; Thriller, I suppose. Most of what I have read here has stuck in my craw with a bad taste, nasty mealy mouthed comments, by and large. All Archie is saying that to a wide section of a worldwide audience of all ages, Jackson was, OK long long before yesterday, a credible and enjoyable pop singer, giving pleasure. And, yes, he could write a tune, carry a note and dance very well, however irritatingly. And much as our pantheon of western gods is littered with Springsteens and Bowies, in the wider world they probably mean diddlysquat. It will really be Jackson and Madonna. however bitter a pill that may seem to be to swallow.
Now, that's my bit, I'm back to searching out more artists who mean nothing to no-one......

Its worth stepping back and looking at the actual legacy.

The Motown stuff was as good/bad as Motown gets. The good stuff was astonishing but there was a lot of dross. None of it was written by MJ however, no surprise given his age but his contribution was as performer.

He wrote some stuff for the Jacksons including a couple of classics.

Then between 1979 and 2001 he releases 5 albums, roughly one very four years. Of these the first three are the most succesful commercially and the first two critically. His writing contribution to the first two is three tracks on Off The Wall and four on Thriller. When he ups the writing stakes on Bad the qualilty overall suffers. As to the cross fertilisation with rock dont forget the influence of Quincy Jones on all three of these albums.

This is not a terribly exciting contribution. I realise that the youngsters hate it when us old guys do this but compare this record to the Beatles or the Beach Boys in the sixties.

MJ deserves to be remembered as a performer first and foremost but any suggestion that his musical contribution is in the top ten doesnt bear close scrutiny.

...a scary face may be slapping on to my matt in about a week and a half. Word will be hard at work selecting one of MJ's faces for the front cover. How can they not ? But which face ? Hopefully from the Off The Wall period, before the madness kicked in. Otherwise it will put the sight of Iggy Pop on the cover before last into perspective.

... of the '70's and '80's.

And he performed them superby whether in concert, in the studio or on television.

Not many people can claim that and it is right that he is celebrated for it.

I now hope to avoid reading and hearing about him over the next week. I'll keep the tv remote handy!

Michael Jackson a 50 year old man who has done nothing for 10 years, except sample numerous plastic surgery procedures to maintain his theory of what a human being should look like, sadly passed away in his rented LA domicile last night.
Jackson had previously left a legacy of classic pop tunes with Motown, Epic and Sony Record Companies. It is believed that these will now be re-released to remind unborn children what they have missed in life.
A spokesman at Sony stated today that "Michael had single-handlely kept record pressing plants in worthwhile employment throughout the 80's". He went onto add that thanks to a new innovation of the digital age Sony were planning to extend Michael's work into a new listening format that would be called the 'Sony Thrilla'.
Members of the Jackson Family at this time are uncertain if they will be available for the next edition of 'Celebrity Big Brother'. Family spokesman Jermaine stated exclusively he had no plans to re-release 'Let's Get Serious' as a mark of respect.
Artists such as Bruce Springsteen and Neil Young, who have continued to release product and tour in the 10 years that Jackson has been unemployed,were unavailable for comment as their helicopters circled a field in Somerset that was a quagmire of mud and sewage.

But, in all seriousness, I don't think I've ever seen so much wrong-headed, mean-spirited 'that don't impress me much' contrarianism posted anywhere on this board as there has been in this thread. And from people who consider themselves music fans as well. David Hepworth's original post is fairly characteristic of his 'let's not get too carried away, now' approach to topics like this, but I'm frankly staggered by the number of people who appear to be suggesting that Michael Jackson was really never all that much of a singer or a songwriter, whose influence on dance music extended no further than wedding discos, and whose influence on popular music as a whole was considerably less than that of Van bloody Morrison. I mean, I like Van and all, but for crying out loud. This shouldn't even be open for debate, least of all on here.

Fair enough if his music meant little or nothing to you. Personally, I feel much the same way about Kurt Cobain, but I've never felt the need to make a public show of it. To be perfectly honest, there's not an awful lot of Michael Jackson's music I especially care for from 1992 onwards, but before that? Different story. This rush to be the first to declare that you can't understand what all the fuss is about is schoolkid stuff. An American acquaintance of mine who travelled a lot as a kid told me in an email about how he still remembers the way kids in far-flung places who could barely speak English would say to him, "American? American? MICHAEL JACKSON!" In his words, "I never forgot how his music seemed to be the one thing around the world that EVERYONE knew. THE ONE THING."

I know it's the done thing these days to adopt a position whereby anything that is massively successful and enduringly popular is somehow assumed to be suspect. But it's really not that complicated. Sometimes, music becomes popular and successful because it connects with people, inspires them, allows them a brief escape from their troubles, lifts them out of what can sometimes be abject misery, makes them dance, sing, smile, laugh, cry, and generally feel good - all the things that remind us that we're alive. This is what music is really for, and this is what Michael Jackson's music did for people - millions upon millions of them. Fine if you don't happen to be one of them, but don't act as if that marks you out as someone special. It doesn't.

I wanted to say something like that, but couldn't put it eloquently enough.

(that's in reply to Joey Jones' post, BTW. Silly me)

“As a child star, he was so talented he seemed lit from within; as a middle-aged man, he was viewed as something akin to a visiting alien who, like Tinkerbell, would cease to exist if the applause ever stopped.”

The applause did stop

And like that he was gone

Firstly I didnt compare Michael Jackson with Elvis Presley you did. I have been saddened by the passing of John Martyn,John Lennon, Bob Marley and Johnny Cash. I was not particularly saddened by the deaths of Freddie Mercury, Kurt Cobain, Elvis Presley or Michael Jackson ONLY because they didnt play a big part in my musical upbringing. The point I made about the dramatic increase in sales after an artists Death is relevant. With John Martyn and Johnny Cash I didnt need to go out and buy their cds posthumously as I already owned an extensive wad of their catalogue. If these millions of Michael Jackson obsessives are so into the artist I assume they already have a collection of his cd's especially as the guy wasnt exactly prolific. It doesnt make sense then that real fans are snaffling up his cd's and I rather suspect that the majority are people on the periphery who are buying into the event. This may sound cynical but it is not my cynicism - I wont be buying the cd's. It has also been reported on here that he brought Black music into the mainstream. I am sorry but I have to argue the case that Stevie Wonder and Bob Marley should share as much credit for doing that and both stayed true to their Black roots. I am not even sure that Michaels music was even Black anyway as it was much more rock orientated.The fact is that Michael was an important part of Motowns equivalent of a boy band who went on to have 3 albums of exceptional success.His persona was exploited to create a media freakshow and this as much as any of his musical accomplishments has created the legacy that we will be left with. He is not alone in this. The guy did 3 albums in the last 20 years and nothing in the last 8 - his profile was resurrected by the prospect of 50 sell out shows in London that it is doubtful he would have ever completed. I feel deeply sorry that his recent life was so troubled and accept that millions throughout the world undoubtedly loved him. That is a legacy that his nearest and dearest should be proud of. That doesnt mean however that I should swallow the bullshit hook line and sinker nor does it mean that I have to revise my opinion of his music. Sadly, many have seen the need to do that.

that as a tribute, Rolf Harris will be doing Two Little Boys during his Glasto appearance.

There has also been some dispute as to the cause of death, as, apparently, Jacko was seen having a stroke in the children's ward.

To quote your post

"I am sorry but I have to argue the case that Stevie Wonder and Bob Marley should share as much credit for doing that and both stayed true to their Black roots."

Do we talk in terms of artists staying true to their white roots?

Other than Oi bands where that sort of thing might be important

The implication that the artists you name have more "credibility" with non-Caucasian communities globally is questionable as some of the most "street" of hip-hop and rap stars' comments on his death have shown

The picture that tops the article attached demonstrates that for African-Americans the respect and love for him was huge

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/27/us/27Jackson.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=nyt...

Email received at 5:30 today - a taste of things to come?
Dear Alan,

the world of pop has lost one of its most striking and controversial personalities. The King of Pop is dead. This "t-shirt of the week" reminds us of all the great music he's created and of his grand early days with Motown.
We are still hopeful that he´s just mocking us and that he´s sitting on a tropical island with Jimi, Janis, Elvis, 2 Pac, Kurt this very moment.

I expect the top 40 this week will have a lot of new entries.

Boogie!

Even if you couldn't understand a word he said - people all over the world were staring at it and saying what the ...?

Perhaps that is his defining characteristic. I lived in Africa in the 80s and there were 2 icons ,if I can use that term, Marley and Jackson.

The Elvis comparison is a strong one.

The devotion, the grief ,the victim of celebrity - the waste of talent the debate on artist v puppet as respective careers careered.

Another thing to consider s that Jackson died at 50 so that makes the bulk of his fans early early 30's - vocal , influential now .

What always impressed me about Michael Jackson (and Madonna for that matter) is he wrote so many fantastic songs. I know he had talented writing partners but they all credit MJ with the ideas and inspiration. All the bullshit submerges this point.

And then he could perform like not many others too.

That's the legacy for me: yes he was a fuckin' weirdo but he was a top drawer songwriter.

I didnt bring up the black argument - I responded to comments on this site. Makes no difference to me. I just hope the insinuation wasn't being made that I was being racist. Nothing could be further from my mind.

Elvis was broke when he died, but look at his estate now. There is even a link here with Lisa Marie.He was never a bona fide songwriter - just like Elvis!
Although Michael's 'Hits' became classic once Quincy Jones and Rod Templeman appeared on the scene.
The industry around Michael will never be the same primarily because he was black - just like Otis & Marvin.

-family band
-over bearing abusive parental so many peers and management
-dramatic influence on so many artists and audience for whom the music was the soundtrack to a formative part of their lives
- goes completely off the rails
- little productive output for years
- and had the O2 shows gone ahead a resurrection, supported by a crack band where no doubt most of the work will be done by sidekicks with sheltered cameo appearances from the man in question

Given Mr Hepworth's comment about the Ethiopian who hadn't heard of Springsteen but knew who MJ was, Joey's "American? American? MICHAEL JACKSON!" anecdote and James's colleagues' reactions in Beijing, I'd like to suggest that Michael Jackson was the most famous person in the world. (US presidents only last eight years, tops.)

Say what you like about his later career and his personal life, that's some achievement.

of this is that, despite nearly reaching double-ton status, my 'Least 'Rock' bloke's name' blog has been kept off the number one spot in the 'Hot Topics - Last 7 Days' chart.

Now there's some perspective for you.

talking about him. What next, Ian Penman comparing MJ to Derrida and Roland Barthes?

has been made a lot, but I also think there is a strong parallel with Judy Garland :-

Manipulated from a young age
Over-worked
Dependent on prescription pills - body constantly cycling (to paraphrase the Kursaals- 'Uppers to counteract the downers, and downers to counteract the uppers')

The pattern keeps repeating itself, as long as there is a buck to be made.