all for it for the reasons given. Also nice to have a little kip on coming home and not waking up at 3 in the morning with a mouth like a bear's bum.

Sounds eminently civilised to me.

I take slight umbrage with your comments on the "young people" causing the problems. This stuff about "lanky students" and "slack-jawed youths" is over-generalising - it's important to remember that there are no age restrictions to being a complete and utter twat. In fact, at recent gigs I've been to, it's normally older people who have annoyed me with their drunken behaviour, camera phones and singing out of tune.

Perhaps I'm just jealous that you're restricting your matinee gigs to over 40s; I'd quite like to come too.

I think too much of the live music experience has been designed with the performer in mind rather than the gig goer. The band want to go on stage as late as possible and so the audience ends up standing around for hours on end waiting until the band feels they're in the zone. And the following morning, when the audience have to get up and go to work, the band are in bed.

I rarely go to gigs straight from work unless they're the kind of showcases where the band come on at seven and are finised by eight. I think more bands should do Saturday afternoon shows, for intance.

Went to a Epic 45 gig at union chapel a few months ago it was on saturday lunchtime (complete with tea and bacon butties) and was just perfect.I think acts with an older fan base should think about this sort of thing may be in more unusual venues too.

I like theatre gigs for this reason - the curfew means you could be home by the end of "Newsnight" if the traffic behaves itself.

I saw 'Slayer' in some Birmingham club venue (O2?) which had a nightclub afterwards, and they finished by 10 pm to sort the venue out for the ravers. THAT'S rock and roll.

The 'stay up late' thing is such crap IMHO - presumably the venue used to think they could sell more beer this way, whilst the band were pretending to not clean their teeth and generally act like Rik out of "The Young Ones". It's part of musicians not realising they are entertainers and pretending to be artists - when real artists get up early and go to bed early too - Francis Bacon for example. Now gigs are populated by middle aged men with dodgy prostates, cars to drive, and work to go to, it is not cost effective to procrastinate the night.

My mates with kids can arrange child care for kids a bit easier during the day at weekends, a couple hours with some friends rather than a baby sitter much easier to sort out in many cases.

except the owl doc at the end. Could this be replaced with a good book?

there's more than enough to choose from.

*goes off to watch iPlayer*

Exactly. I'm not quite over 40 (getting there), but matinee or teatime gigs sound bloody perfect to me.

I hanker for the days of Motown and Stax revues. Three, four or five songs (solid gold ones) and then bugger off for the next lot.

For some bizarre reason reading the OP made me think of the Spinal Tap matinee gig featuring Derek Smalls' Jazz Odyssey

I'm all for the getting home early idea (The gig I was at on Wednesday had a 10pm curfew so I was home just before 11) but the earlier a gig starts, the harder it is to get there in the first place. These days I aim to try to get to most gigs by about 8:45 which is normally in plenty of time to see the main band. As that generally means about an hours drive it means I can get home from work, make my tea, sit down and eat it and leave around 7:30 once the traffic has died down a bit.
Saturday lunchtimes seems an excellent time for a gig but it'll take some getting used to.

to do away with the support band. I can count on the fingers of one hand the great supports I've seen from the hundreds of gigs I've been to.

No support and then those who want to relax in the venue after the gig and drink can do so. Rather that than shouting for people to get out as soon as the lights go up (c**ting Brixton) and turfing the public out just as pubs shut.

But the choice of staying oin the venue or going to a pub afterwards would mean that venues would have to drop their high drink prices so that wouldn't work.

the owl documentary. By the way, what time is it on?

you

but I would hate to come out of a gig and it still be daylight....

2 shows a night - first one, doors open at 6.00, on-stage promptly at 7.00, last encore finished by 8.30. Then an hour to clear out the first load of punters and get the next lot in, on-stage at 9.30, all done by 11.00... and a special price and wristbands for fans who want to see both sets, job's a good'un.

., a new idea though.

I remember seeing Kraftwerk In Brixton with a 7.30pm prompt kick off - the later show starting at 10.30pm. You pays your money & takes your choice which one you want to attend. I don't think this was an isolated gig either. That said I can't remember ever seeing such an arrangement anywhere up north.

I do concede though that this double gig - was probably due to maximising the £Sd rather than accommodating the actual wishes of punters.

friend of mine went to see a midweek Amy Winehouse gig in Blackpool about 4 years ago - probably at her peak of rockn'roll excess. She eventually came on stage at 10.45pm Given that a large portion of the crowd had driven from Manchester / Liverpool / North West - I was told at least 30% of the people had given up & gone home. Babysitters & Early shifts do not make allowances for rock stars

As with earlier posters, I'd love to take in a gig & have enough time for a good pint & chat / home in time for bed - we should start a campaign !

How about attending a gig in the morning before going to work? Seeing a Dutch prog metal band at 7:30am could galvanise you into finally sealing that deal with the Carter account!

You do not mess with a tried and trusted formula.

Gigs should not start before 9PM. This leaves plenty of time to
get home from you daily drudgery, eat, wash, clip nasal hair and
negotiate pubic transport to a bar close to, but not at the venue.

Here you shall discuss merrits of last album, last gig and how you
saw them years ago at the Dangly Arms playing to one man and their dog.

You shall go to the venue, bouncer will stare at you ticket interminably when the barcode reader fails, scowl and let you in.

You will negotiate sticky carpet, queues for piquant and overflowing
toilets. You will be served warm beer in plastic glasses by people incapable of thinking 2 independent thoughts simultaneously, let alone serve 2 people.

You will endure tail end of support act and roadies ambling around stage, doing...errr... yeah anyway. You will spend the first half of the gig waiting for a tune you detest so you can slip out for a fag. Said fag will be ruined by ever present twat who wants tell you all about how he saw them years ago at the Dangly Arms playing to one man and their dog.

You will get turfed out the minute the lights come out. You will try to find another bar, have just enough supplementary beers to f*&k you up the next day. You will sober up quickly as you try to negotiate taxis, trains and night busses.

I mean, what's not to like?

I saw The Monochrome Set on Sunday night and they were asking the audience what time they should finish the set to ensure the crowd could all catch their last sunday-service trains home! That's what I call consideration...

I have a bit of a dilemma as I've just found out that my new all time favourite band - sorry, heaven forbid, second all time favourite band - The Len Price 3 are playing a nightclub gig. They won't be on stage until around 11pm in that London (St. Moritz July 01st oh ye with impeccable music taste), now I HAVE to go but being from the sticks I'm mortified of 1. staying awake 2. having to get the 3am mugger's delight train back 3. having to endure the walk from station to home (mugger's paradise) or 4. forking out a fortune on a nice comfy hotel in London.

I go to a lot of gigs with various combinations of daughters and friends. Sometimes I even go on my own.
For me the text book finish is being on the way to the car park by 10.30. When it goes to 11:00 I find my interest in the band is replaced by irritation at the delay, particularly if I have a 50 mile drive home from Brighton or Bournemouth.
The Wedgewood Rooms in Portsmouth has some fantastic gigs, but insists on opening at 8:00 with a 11:00 or even 11:30 finish. This is not only a pain for senior citizens like myself, it also means that a lot of people without access to a car have to leave early to catch public transport.
Also there should be a law - only 1 support act at any time.
Not sure if a matinee would have any atmosphere, I generally think that live music should always be at night, and always indoors.

Do we have to give up so easily?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Totally in agreement with the general sentiments here. I go to a lot more gigs than I used to at 'slick' places like the South Bank and the Barbican (lots of world, you see) and they're run with much more precision. They tend to stick to show times and you often escape with a few trains in hand.

Then when you next go back to Camden Underworld and wait till 10pm for the headline act, it all seems a bit crap in comparison.

Part of the trouble, I think, is that a lot of bands don't have that many songs. I went to see Vampire Weekend when the debut came out, so after about 45 mins they hadn't got anything else to play. In that situation, you get the dreaded two or three support bands, because otherwise the gig wouldn't be long enough.

I think more bands (maybe if they're on the same label or something) should join forces and do double headers. Get rid of the traditional 'support' model and we'll have two bands, each doing an hour or just over. 7.30-8.30, 9-10. Brilliant. (Some of the alt-country bands did this when they all seemed to be 'starting out' in the UK around the same time - like the Handsome Family and Willard Grant Conspiracy - amazing 2-for-1 value.)

Bands who are at the natural 'support' stage in their existence would have a perfect home in the showcase or afternoon gigs that David H mentions.

Vintage band T-shirts transformed into crop-tops by decades of shrinkage and acres of middle-aged spread. Distended screen-prints depicting Led Zeppelin live at Madison Square Gardens give some idea as to what Robert Plant might have looked like were he 20 stone.

The bastard standing next to you loudly masticating on a Bakewell Tart during the quiet bit of Fake Plastic Trees.

An argument with one of the bar staff regarding whether the 1995 La Tâche, Grand Cru, Domaine de la Romanée-Conti you just purchased is corked or has simply yet to reach full maturity.

The merchandise stall has sold out of Richard Thompson-branded vibrating back-massage gloves, moulded to the exact dimensions of Richard Thompson’s hands. In a moment of desperation you settle for a similar Captain & Tennille-branded product.

The look on the faces of a band who average 18 years old as they take to the stage and realise they are playing exclusively to an audience the same age as their parents.

A straw poll conducted by the promoter regarding whether the venue thermostat should be turned up or down goes against your wishes. You realise that you’ve left your 100% lamb’s wool, Blue Harbour cardigan in the back seat of your Kia Venga, in full view of anyone who might wish to break in and steal it.

Elderly gig-goers in their 60 and 70s casting disapproving looks in your direction, loudly tutting at your animated discussion about the speed bumps the council have just put down your road.

The documentary on roosting barn owls has been replaced by ‘They Praise Him.’ A show hosted by ex-Blue Peter Presenters in which footage of wild animals is synchronised to hymns from Songs of Praise, giving the impression that a band of meerkats, an Indian flower mantis and some lions have joined together for a spirited rendition of “Jesus is Lord”.

These sound like a great idea. Especially if you have to travel. I'm based in Liverpool, but if I wanted to go and see a gig in, say, Manchester, driving is pretty much a necessity - the trains don't run very late, and obviously the costs of staying overnight can be prohibitive. Whereas an afternoon gig would be really convenient. Easier for transportation purposes, and you could get home at a reasonable time.

I'm really not cut out for the rock and roll lifestyle.

Matinee gigs indeed! There are plenty this summer. Go off to Glastonbury or another crap festival this year and you'll be able to watch the usual corporate band boredom going on most afternoons. Or get your butt of to Japan where gigs tend to start about 7 and finish by 9. Then you have the rest of the night ahead of you. Quite honestly the best thing you can do if you want an hour of rock and roll with no added crap is, as retroman has already stated, go and see the fabulous Len Price Three who are without doubt the best rock band in this country in a couple of decades. Unfortunately for Olthwaite they are on at The St Moritz Club at 11pm on saturday 1st July. But you do get the full red- hot hour with no bullshit. Kick off your slippers and get down!!