Lunchtime in the High St

Is it reasonable or acceptable to;
A - Want to have a quiet word outside with people who utter the following words in the queue in front of me;
"can I get a skinny latte/regular cappucino" (Why is this most prevalent in coffee shops)?
B - Assume people who've bought drab, dun-coloured anoraks with the utterly incongruous and awful "The North Face" logo stuck on the back think they are adding some odd frisson of cool to their dun-coloured lives when they are probably just keeping dry?
C - Note anyone seen in a floor-length Dryzabone mac and accompanying floppy hat and give them 100 points on the Prat-o-meter?

First off. Have you thought

First off. Have you thought of switching to decaf as you seem slightly on edge. A and b, maybe a bit harsh (it's probably prevelant in coffee shops as asking for a skinny latte/cappucino elsewhere (butchers, shoe shop) may cause confusion). C is perfectly reasonable and even laudable. I'm sure we all feel your pain.

Sgt Pluck | 2 July 2008 - 1:37pm

...

"can I get a skinny latte/regular cappucino" (Why is this most prevalent in coffee shops)?

Possibly because they tend to sell coffee in coffee shops..? ;)

Maybe it reflects what the staff are trained to ask you in the first place. If they say, 'What can I get you?' you're likely to use the same verb back.

FraserM | 2 July 2008 - 1:39pm

Surely the correct reply to that would be…

“Could you get me a... [whatever]“

And asking for a 'skinny latte' anywhere that doesn't advertise such a thing (I presume it's Starbucks, although I've never actually been in one) is really not acceptable.

Larry Heliotrope | 2 July 2008 - 3:35pm

Can/could

My mother always said that to ask someone whether you can do anything, can have anything etc was common, and should be responded along the lines of you can, but you won't until you learn some better english. May I have or what would you like are the questions.
Capiche?

Retropath2 | 2 July 2008 - 3:39pm

How to "use the same verb back" correctly

"You can get me a skinny latte please".

Though:

"A skinny latte please"

would suffice.

Jeez.

Paul Vincent | 2 July 2008 - 3:37pm

I didn't actually mean...

...within the same conversation!

I meant in the memetic sense of building up an association of a particular lexicon with a particular establishment.

FraserM | 2 July 2008 - 3:58pm

I would..

definitely consider C to be reasonable!!!

humphreym | 2 July 2008 - 1:43pm

Around here

all the coffee shops and sandwich places are full of students asking if they can *get* things. I think the American students started it and now they all seem to do it. Another example of the language changing and evolving I guess.

FerrisCollier | 2 July 2008 - 2:06pm

The first time

...I replied "No you can't, you're not allowed behind the counter", I'd be fired on the spot. Lucky I don't need a job right now, eh?

Paul Vincent | 2 July 2008 - 3:38pm

Are you Victor Meldew

in disguise?

dolly | 2 July 2008 - 2:07pm

No

But I am.

Paul Vincent | 2 July 2008 - 3:39pm

"See you later"

Fond farewell greeting made to someone on the telephone, whom you have neither seen recently, nor will soon, or, most likely, will even bother to hear later.
Beats catching later, I suppose.
Theres an R in Meldew.

Retropath2 | 2 July 2008 - 2:12pm

There's

...an apostrophe in 'there's'. ;-)

AgentGraves | 3 July 2008 - 11:05am

C is reasonable and B could

C is reasonable and B could be depending on the level of technical cold weather wear they have on and how out doorsey they are in reality.

I don't mind the americanisms in US style coffee shops - I normally avoid as the coffee quality is not great. In fact, they seem to correlate waiting time with higher quality which annoys me loads.

What gets me most at the moment as the proud father to twins, is how familiar people think they can be just because we have twins. They point, discuss them with each other whilst ignoring us completely and some even walk up and start lifting blankets to get a better look.

Leedsboy | 2 July 2008 - 3:03pm

Hey!

Did you know that it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile? So turn that frown upside down!

If that makes you want to punch me, that's ok, I want to punch myself after posting this.

Mr Drayton | 2 July 2008 - 3:12pm

As Bill Hicks replied...

"Yeah? And it took you more effort to tell me that than just shut the *@$£ up and leave me alone."

FraserM | 2 July 2008 - 3:13pm

My muscle

has turned to fat so it's immaterial. I can frown with no increase to my personal carbon footprint.

Leedsboy | 2 July 2008 - 3:51pm

C is OK

If it's raining. No problem with folks keeping dry. If it's not raining, and there ain't a cloud in the sky, then death's too good for 'em.

Paul Vincent | 2 July 2008 - 3:43pm

Oh, come on…

Keeping dry is for wimps

Larry Heliotrope | 2 July 2008 - 4:09pm

I'm off

to get me a tall, skinny latte. Anyone want one?

Leedsboy | 2 July 2008 - 4:02pm

No thanks, but

I'd put an anorak or a mac on if I were you - it looks like rain.

FerrisCollier | 2 July 2008 - 4:20pm

get

I'm with Paul on this. "get" in this context is dismal and should be corrected. "I'd like a..." is fine, "May I have a...." possibly a bit formal though I am hammering it into Twang Jr at the moment, ""Any chance of a ...." probably a bit flip, "A.....please" certainly OK if delivered pleasantly.

Twang Jr has also acquired "done" as in "I'm done" when he means "I've finished" from somewhere too. Needless to say there is zero tolerance on this too.

B & C - agree but it doesn't pain me in the same way.

There. I'm done. I'm off to get a coffee.

Twangothan | 2 July 2008 - 4:22pm

Actually…

… in that context, your final use of 'get' is perfectly acceptable, as it indicates action taken on your part to obtain said coffee, rather than the passive standing-at-a-counter transaction alluded to by Paul at the start of this thread.

Larry Heliotrope | 2 July 2008 - 4:23pm

You're right

Careless of me. Just can't help myself sometimes.

Twangothan | 2 July 2008 - 4:44pm

Right - social experiment review

I now have a skinny latte on my desk. I used the phrase "Can I have a tall, skinny latte please". This was clearly understood.

Everyone else ordering while I was there said "Can I get..."

This proves:

1. That people that serve coffee don't have to be talked to as if we are in an episode of Friends.

2. No one in the queue has read the Word blog today.

Leedsboy | 2 July 2008 - 4:35pm

And I dare say, when asked how they were,

...all said Good.
Savages!

Retropath2 | 2 July 2008 - 4:37pm

I am in England

therefore no one asked how anyone was - that would be talking to people.

Leedsboy | 2 July 2008 - 4:43pm

Golly, that's a relief.

Dignity restored, but I am reminded by your communication that any number of colonials have access to this gentlemans (and occasional ladies) electronic intercourse. Its up to us, yes even up in Northern England, to maintain standards ands educate them as to matters radiogrammatically.
Now, back to matters essential: it has been brought to my attention that certain parties have been disrespectful of the master. Lets remind one and all that none of us would have been here today without Sir Noel. Lets hasten to their abode and pull them hard by the cravat,

Retropath2 | 2 July 2008 - 4:51pm

Sir Noel wore a cravat?

Unless my memory's playing tricks on me (again), the master invariably preferred a polyester polo-neck when presenting Swap Shop.

Archie Valparaiso | 2 July 2008 - 6:08pm

Yes, but if you *were* asked. . .

we have every faith in you to respond not with "good" but with "reet gradely".

Archie Valparaiso | 2 July 2008 - 6:05pm

More formally,though

...the correct protocol is:

"Ow'm yer dooin'?"
"Awroight."

Paul Vincent | 2 July 2008 - 7:44pm

i read this and thought that

Prat-o-meter was one of those american style high st eateries where it's all fancy assed sandwiches and smoothes with at least 4 different flavours. It's not, is it...

ivan | 2 July 2008 - 4:48pm

I HATE 'get'

In every food or drink queue I'm in, I hear this - except in pubs. It would seem everyone under 30 now says this.

It's annoyingly American. And it must stop.

Five-Centres | 2 July 2008 - 4:57pm

You posting in

the right place

Leedsboy | 2 July 2008 - 4:59pm

Not my story, but…

… I read a comment somewhere by someone who'd been behind a bloke in a sandwich bar who'd uttered the following:
“Can I get a J P with cheese and beans?”

A 'J P' is, for the uninitiated, a jacket potato.

Larry Heliotrope | 2 July 2008 - 5:03pm

I know let's

have a crap french style academy which tells us all which words we can and can't use including all the ones which we use to use that went over the pond and came back but we've moved on and then slag off because they are "american" but aren't just old english usage. let's not say "cool", or "jazz" or "kangeroo" let's all speak like James 1st.
Griping about grammar/usage is the most self defeating activity going.
and as for slagging of what people wear didn't Jesus say something about "ye who hath not sin, ye shall can cast the first stone"

This bloke in the long coat not member of the fields Nephillim by any chance?

Chris G | 2 July 2008 - 5:19pm

Not sure it’s even bad grammar

to say “can I get“. “Get” in this sense means receive; and is just as grammatical as saying “can I have”. It’s one of those American (or is it more Australian) speech mannerisms that can grate though. The other thing about daft coffee is that it’s one of those things people say they are going to “grab”. People “grab” showers too. A woman I used to work with - one of those busy, busy executive types who drink a lot of “skinny latte” (whatever the hell that is when it’s at home) - used to always ask if she could “grab a quick meeting”.

Richard Lowe | 2 July 2008 - 6:35pm

a in kangaroo, one l in nephilim.

If there is one thing worse than a grammar pedant it is a spelling unapologist......
;-)

Retropath2 | 3 July 2008 - 7:35am

hmmmmmmm

no apologises for not spelling a misheard made up word from a solely verbal language wrong and really not fussed about getting the name of a crap goth band wrong. ;) How exactly do you spell Ballhaam and the angle ?

Chris G | 3 July 2008 - 9:36am

C, R, A,

P, I believe.....
Whats the betting an aggrieved black'n'bleachy writes in now?

Retropath2 | 3 July 2008 - 9:51am

A young woman

Possibly an actress, informed a blonde woman on GMTV the other day that she was "Loving being in a good place right now". Had I not been an early adopter and as such paid too much for my LCD TV, I would have put it through with a well aimed slipper.

johnsey | 2 July 2008 - 9:05pm

Strange vocab

While in a Coffee shop in L,A a few years back a friend of mine was perplexed by the vocabulary being used.When he was asked if he wanted his Coffee "Tall,skinny etc" He replied "Mate i'm short,fat,bald and thirsty if that's any help".

paul beard | 2 July 2008 - 9:25pm

Like it Paul

But are you sure you are on the right thread?

Master Hepworth asks if you could report to the art department where you are required to be photographed for next month's cover with Brian Eno. Apparently they want a 'bloke with Beard'...

Beany | 2 July 2008 - 9:44pm

For Richard Lowe

What about "Taking a shower" ?,Where exactly are they taking it ?

paul beard | 2 July 2008 - 9:29pm

Enduring, perhaps?

In the sense of "can you take it?", "take it like a man" etc. As one indeed must settle for "taking" a shower when the preferred option of a bathtub is unavailable, so that one is denied the pleasure of marinating in a soapy suspension of sebum and scrubbed-off skin flakes, for hours at a time, as is the preference of the true English gentleman.

Showers, indeed!

Paul Vincent | 2 July 2008 - 11:26pm

As a colonial can I ask ...

if you have been asked to transport an item from your house to someone else's house - a piece of furniture, a pig, or a signed picture of Violet Carson perhaps - do you reply: (i) "Yes, I'll bring it with me" or (ii) "Yes, I'll take it with me"? I only ask because I was recently ridiculed by an Englishman for using 'bring', whereas in Ireland this is the usual construction. It's always useful to obtain guidance from experts in these matters.

StevenC | 2 July 2008 - 10:45pm

The usual response

In the north of England is

(iii) Fetch it yourself

Beany | 2 July 2008 - 10:48pm

I'll get it to you..........

as soon as I unpack my poke. (The occasional table and etchings will have to be brung later)

Retropath2 | 3 July 2008 - 7:39am

The coffee is

better in M&S - and they dont serve skinny Lattes. Highly recommend their Rocky road to go with the Coffee. Anmyway we need to be supportive of our British Institutions - Times is hard - Sir Rose's company just report £1 billon pounds in profit and their shares take a dive!! Their checkout girls are revolting - one in Tamworth gave me a 10p bag without charging, all because her bonus was cut from £500 to £100. The worm is turning.

Steve Turner | 3 July 2008 - 1:53pm

I don't

Blame her has Michael Rose's bonuses been cut by 4/5ths.
Also who the chuff drinks Coffee shouldn't stout yeoman drink Tea....

Chris G | 3 July 2008 - 2:12pm

Ok - here are two more

Why oh why oh why do the youth of today insist on peppeing their sentences with "like"? This seems to be very much a transatlantic thing and makes steam come out of my ears.

And in a ceetain sort of restaurant being addressed as "you guys" - grrrr

Diz | 3 July 2008 - 2:26pm

I read the news today

And I'm like "Oh. My. God!"
There's like literally trillions and trillions of these sort of hole-type things in Blackburn, Lancashire.
But though the hole-type things were only like, you know, mega-tiny,
They've all got tickets for the O2.
I'm loving the idea of floating your boat.

Archie Valparaiso | 3 July 2008 - 5:43pm

You could have something here, Archie

I challenge you to render, say, Wordsworth's *Daffodils* or *Upon Westminster Bridge* in the same style.

David Hepworth | 3 July 2008 - 5:51pm

LIKE, TOTALLY.

Indus | 3 July 2008 - 7:23pm

I wandered lonely. . .

Whoa, whoa, whoa.
W. A. I. T.
That's like poetry, right?
Which part of "can't be arsed" don't you understand?

Archie Valparaiso | 3 July 2008 - 6:01pm

Confirmed.

Valparaiso clearly one of the Beat poets. My money is on Gregory Corso. First use of arse out of san Francisco bay area happening sense. Poetry wise, that is.

Retropath2 | 3 July 2008 - 6:04pm

Joy Division updated

"Love Will Keep Us Together. . . Not"

Archie Valparaiso | 3 July 2008 - 11:49pm

Sunny Friday

Yes, the weather's OK for a change but my office is still full of idiots wanting things to "be actioned going forward". The only thing they seem to be capable of "actioning going forward" is the splitting of a thousand infinitives and the extinction of the bloody comma. I'm off to get me a gun....

gunnerboy | 4 July 2008 - 3:09pm

Fire!

Think of it as an opportunity, not a challenge.

Beany | 4 July 2008 - 3:14pm

Going forward

Oh God, I've heard so many "going forward"s this week, having spent the entire time in meetings mostly conducted on speakerphone. Where did this idiotic phrase come from? I've had a gutsfull of "measurables", too. And "we need to...", meaning "you need to".

johnsey | 4 July 2008 - 8:52pm

I'm not alone

Thank God I am not alone in hating these various recent changes in usage. However, I feel I am about to raise this thread to new levels of pedantry by offering an English teacher's view.

pv is right when he points out that in this case `can', when used with the verb `to get' is usually taken as a request for permission for someone to do something rather than an enquiry about the possibility of someone else doing it for them.

We all know those idiots who, when asked if they can pass you something, reply "Yes". Then they don't pass you it because you didn't ask them if they will pass you it now please....pretty please... with a cherry on top.

The normal question "Can I have?", or the slightly more polite form "Could I have" when used in a transaction situation are the commonly accepted versions of "Give me". Clearly this isn't an enquiry about the possibility of the transaction. Nor is it a request for permission to carry out the transaction. It is an order, placed in that wonderful English way. In other languages this can be much more direct - for example "I'll have", or "I'll take", or "give me", or "I want" or even just the .

I could suggest that as young people a) don't actually learn grammar anymore, and b) each generation tries to change it anyway, this is actually a modern attempt to be more polite rather than less, as `Can I get a...' could be construed as more polite than `Can you get me a...'

I could suggest that....but I also fear it came from American TV - I don't like it either!

As for the bring/take thing...look here: http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/050701.htm

Just to raise the bar a little....has anyone experienced "could of"? As in: I could of done something but I didn't.

Stephen Dodds | 4 July 2008 - 4:12pm

Could of

I've heard and seen "could of" many times, especially in on-line forums where it is generally used by the younger posters. I blame falling educational standards.

Even my wife (aged 43) asks if she can "get" a coffee when in the coffee shop. It's like all I can do not to correct her. The coffee's hot and it just isn't worth the risk.

NeilJung | 4 July 2008 - 4:28pm

I'm trying

very hard to resist the tempation to point out the spurious "like" in your penultimate sentence. Trying, but failing.

Paul Vincent | 4 July 2008 - 6:49pm

My mother (again):

May I asks whether, can I asks if possible, could I asks if the potential is there.
Source: Inverness, "where they speak the best english in the land".
So there.
Jimmy.

Retropath2 | 4 July 2008 - 4:39pm

Get

It's a meme. It started about a year ago and now it is everywhere. People think it is cool to talk this way. Much like people who drive with their window down, holding on to the car roof. There is NO REASON to do this but it started about 30 years ago and will never stop. Basically sub-species of the cool meme. Saying 'off of' is another one.

earlgreyjnr | 4 July 2008 - 4:59pm

Overheard Today.

Coming out of Work i bumped into two American girls and one said to the other "That So Did Not Not happen". Anyone got the faintest idea what she meant ?

paul beard | 4 July 2008 - 5:53pm

She meant she was stupid and

She meant she was stupid and had no grasp of the language they call 'English'. I blame text messages. I'm not sure I buy all this 'it's just the language evolving and developing' nonsense. How can 'C U l8tr' be an evolvement of 'See you later'? It's stupiding up. Yes I just made up a word, that's evolvement. As Russell Brand says (can't knock his language skills) 'all words are made up'.

He's got a point.

greenguitarstar | 4 July 2008 - 7:47pm

Actually.

Saying 'can I get' should probably be responded to with 'no, it's OK, I'll get it. That's the point. It's a shop. You ask, we get. You don't have to get anything.'

Stupid gets. It drives me mad.

greenguitarstar | 4 July 2008 - 7:44pm

Get over it

Chaucer:

Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour
Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
(That slepen al the nyght with open eye)
So priketh hem Nature in hir corages
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages

Shakespeare:

Stay you imperfect Speakers, tell me more:
By Sinells death, I know I am Thane of Glamis,
But how, of Cawdor? the Thane of Cawdor liues
A prosperous Gentleman: And to be King,
Stands not within the prospect of beleefe,
No more then to be Cawdor. Say from whence
You owe this strange Intelligence, or why
Vpon this blasted Heath you stop our way
With such Prophetique greeting?
Speake, I charge you.

Well-known extracts from two of the greatest English writers that ever committed their words to the page, yet written in versions of our language that are very far from what we're used to today. Even allowing for the fact that they're in verse, they're still not exactly what you hear on the Clapham omnibus (or should that be bus? Or even 'bus, for the REAL pedants?) these days.

Shakespeare is estimated to have introduced roughly 1,500 words to the English language. I'm sure he'd heartily approve of "Can I get a skinny latte, please?"

Language changes with time. Get over it.

David Ellcock | 4 July 2008 - 10:36pm

Wot The ****

I'll have a skinny half double decaf latte with a twist of lemon!
What's the point?

Golden Nose Slim | 5 July 2008 - 4:12am

BLUETOOTH EARPIECES

People who walk around with a bluetooth earpiece permanently inserted surely score 110 points on the Prat-o-meter?

Mark JF | 6 July 2008 - 3:31pm

If we're looking at basic behaviour,

What ever happened to old fashioned concepts like "please" and "thank you"? "A regular cappuccino, please" said in a polite, friendly manner might not just make you feel good, but make the poor bugger earning minimum wage behind the counter feel valued and may even result in a smile and better service.

Am I being dreadfully old fashioned banging on about this? Well, so be it. Why is courtesy seen as pointless in this day and age? Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength, as some wise chap once put it.

samfid | 7 July 2008 - 1:48am